The Missing Phone Call
On July 5th Kelly Thomas was approached by police supposedly because the cops had received a report of a man trying to burglarize cars in the parking lot.
Here’s the problem: A Friend has confirmed through a records request that there were only two calls to the police for auto burglary in the Fullerton Transportation Center on July 5th, and neither one had anything to do with Kelly Thomas or anyone else in the area at the time.
In fact, one call was made early in the morning and the other came in at 11:30 pm, well after Kelly Thomas had already been beaten to death. Both calls were for stolen catalytic converters, an unlikely target for a homeless man with no tools.
So what really led officers to investigate a vehicle burglary at 8:30 pm on July 5th? Why were no calls logged or reports taken before Kelly was arrested? Who reported a crime, and how did they report it without going through the dispatch system?
It’s really starting to look like the whole burglary thing was an invention; an excuse to harass a homeless guy who wasn’t doing anything wrong.
Well, this is no surprise. Obviously the call was a fake and whoever made it committed a crime. The fact fact that a crime led to a killing is worse than tragic – it points to culpability no matter how tenuous.
Now, if it can be demonstrated that the cops were complicit in setting up a fake call we have a conspiracy to commit a crime – and possibly even premeditation to deprive Kelly Thomas of his civil rights, and maybe even his life.
I really have to wonder if our don-nothing DA even bothered to check the reports himself.
Wasn’t there a claim by the police department that a call had been made reporting suspected auto burglary? Could you please reprint the quotes that contained that info so we can line up the lie or what the discrepancy is?
STEALING CONVERTERS OFF A CAR DOESN’T REALLY MEET THE STANDARD OF A BURGLARY. BURGLARY REQUIRES AN ENTRY INTO ANY FOUR SIDED DWELLING TO COMMIT A FELONY OR MISDEMEANOR. TAKING A CONVERTER HAPPENS OUTSIDE OF THE CAR SO IT IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BE A GRAND THEFT WITH A VANDALISM. DEPENDS ON HOW LAZY COPS ARE. THESE REPORTS SUCK!
More bad news for the FPD Keystone Kops.
You mean there was no call and Goodrich lied?
Goodrich is a liar when he opens his mouth. Have you seen cops go to jail because they lying to their teeth? No.
Fullerton Police Dept. & Officials, Unions and Orange County District Attorney are snakes guarding hen house.
His name was originally Goodliar, but that than union pay kicked in, he had to change his name.
Work on those writing skills buddy, LOL. It looks like gibberish.
Work on those writing skills buddy, LOL. It looks like gibberish. Here, so we don’t look the same.
?
fck you talkin bout fgt
You did take english in school, right?
“His name was originally Goodliar, but then union pay kicked in, so he had to change his name”.
Your point was funny, I liked it. I just wanted to show you, If written correctly, your ideas could be clear for all to understand, so now I’m adding some subordinating conjunctions with commas for you. We dont want the public thinking we may have ignorant uneducated people making shallow remarkes in here, or now do we?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civitas
oh damn, caught by the grammEr police, full anal search and all.
:/
to Fullerton
Change Goodrich’s name to yours, then read what you wrote again.
Assumptions don’t help.
Evidence and respect for the system does.
It took 200+ years to develop the system. Use it they way it was meant to be used.
Take the high road. Don’t lower yourself to behave the way we think these few rogue officers did.
#4 Fullerton insider: If you are a fullerton insider then you know for FACT that goodrich is a pussy cop who ran from calls. He is a fat, lazy, cheating waste of taxpayer money so liar fits into his persona. Let everyone know just how corrupt that dept. is.
Is he not only ugly but his Momma says he’s ugly?
Exactly Hollis, let’s catch the department in yet another lie, to show once again their inability to be truthful.
Let’s get some numbers out there Saturday.
Will be there!!!! Dont be afraid to exercise your First Amendment rights. Keep it peaceful, lawful and don’t do as one asshat did last weekend! He was swinging from the flag pole rope in front of city hall. That gives no one a good name. We told him to stop, no need to vandalize property or disrespect the flag of this great country. We need to police each other at the protests!
Get those idiots out of there. Who were they? were they planted there by the opposing side?
I know the person who made the call. It exists and they feel horrible for placing it. They never would have imagined this would’ve happened. They were simply following protocol put in place by superiors. Please stop acting like the call is a big conspiracy it’s putting more strain and pain on the caller.
One question. Has this person, whom I sympathize with by the way, been interviewed by the FPD “internal affairs” people, the DA’s office, or the FBI?
Surprisingly enough they weren’t contacted but has made themselves available.
Wow. Not contacted. Incredible. Wouldn’t expect anything but a coverup from FPD of course, not much better from OCDA but you’d think at least the FBI would be interested.
The FBI is two 30-something year olds playing cops-n-robbers that are use to making copies and fetch’n donuts for their bosses. I’ve been told they have been given “hot tips” about the KT case, but have completely dropped the ball. More disappointing news 🙁
Anyone see Mike Corona lately?
and the protocol was a conspiracy. i’m more concerned with the strain and pain of KT. they made the call they are responsible. i would think someone who feels so bad would say what they know
It a felony. Trying to take the “I was only following orders,” didn’t work for the Nazis and it won’t work for this guy.
Does your friend work at Slidebar?
Yeah, but the person making the call probably had no idea it would result in a beating, much less a death.
The fact they came forward is a sign of taking responsibility. The blame is on the offficers and whoever told them to make those calls.
DOESN’T MATTER, THERE’S A THING IN THE LAW CALLED PROXIMATE CAUSE, WHICH MEANS A CERTAIN THING OCCURRING WOULD NOT HAVE RESULTED IN SOMETHING ELSE. BUT FOR, THE PHONE CALL BEING PLACED, KELLY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BEATEN TO DEATH. THE PHONE CALL, THE PRETEXT FOR COPS BEING THERE WAS A DIRECT RESULT OF THAT PHONE CALL BEING MADE.
@dixiejon the peotocol wasn’t a conspiracy it was set in place by FPD and owners of the bar. so because they followed what they were told the blood is on their hands? Way to take the blame off the animals who did this and place it elsewhere.
@TheFullertonWatcher Nazi Germany really? This is far from Nazi Germany. Grow up
they ALL have blood on their hands jackass. telling someone to call in a false report and acting on it is a conspiracy between the police and the caller to violate Kelly’s rights at the least. How am I wrong?
At least accept that the caller didn’t realize what would happen and has less culpability than anybody else involved: particularly the cops and the person who instructed the employee to make the call.
Name calling is always a good way to get your point across. The caller was not aware who they were calling about. Complaints by customers were made about someone harassing customers in the parking lot. The FPD has always told the bar to claim car break ins in order to get immediate response. The police don’t view homeless people harassing customers as a reason to come out. The person had made this call many times before without this kin of result. Blaming the caller is the wrong thing to do. Blame the officers who did this and the corrupt officials who are covering it up.
Making a fake call to police is a crime, let’s see if anyone gets charged.
Here is an interesting quote from the declaration of independence:
‘He (the then present King of Great Britian) has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository or their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
If you knew the person who made the call then sharing with us or report to Fullerton police and OC District Attorney. I dare you not.
Out of respect I won’t disclose the name here and they have made themselves available to law enforcement for interview.
Accepting your friend is totally innocent here, could you please find out what number was used to call the P.D.? Was it a personal cell phone of a cop doing a special favor for a local business or is the switchboard at FPD just failing to log calls related to deaths?
They called the department so I’m guessing the call wasnt logged or it was removed.
@They called the department
Did they…
1. Call the non-emergency number?
2. Call 911?
3. Call a police officer directly?
4. Call a substation?
5. Contact an officer in in person?
All calls in police departments are recorded, 911 and business lines.
Something is very fucked up if the FPD says they were responding to a call yet there is no call on record. AND there is a person admitting to the call.
You would think one of the DOZENS of investigators is looking into this issue and pulling phone records.
@Kelly Supporter, if what you’re saying is true, thank you for coming here and stating this.
If you haven’t already, it’d be good of you to stop by the protest Saturday and personally relate this to Ron or Cathy Thomas.
That’s a good idea. I was already planning on being there.
Yeah or email Ron Thomas and Vath Mam’s lawyer right away so he can interview the person…..
I will encourage my friend to contact the lawyer
I suggest that your friend talk to Ron Thomas’ lawyer prior to talking to police.
Agreed. Get protection first.
I suggest that your friend talk to Ron Thomas’ lawyer prior to talking to police.
Absolutely, but don’t e-mail. Phone and set up an appointment for a face to face pronto. Otherwise this person will likely be subject to intimidation. The FPD already know who made the call. Get (her?) backside covered asap.
Supporter,
Your friend should come forward and publicly discuss what he/she did, and why.
If they feel so bad, you should encouage them to do the right thing.
Remember: “The truth will set you free”
Otherwise your friend should consider themself complicit in the coverup.
TALK TO FFFF
Tony Bushala knows the caller. He can contact them.
Garo Mardirossian, Ron Thomas’ attorney, can be reached at (323) 653-6311. Please call Garo tomorrow, I’m sure he would like to speak to you personally and will protect your anonymity if you wish.
I don’t believe that at all. I would believe it a lot more if the organization for which this caller supposedly acted were identified, and if we were told whether some “non-911” phone number were called. This particular blog entry is anonymous and conclusionary. I sign my name to everything I post. Best wishes, WSH
Conjecture is, Slidebar.
Conjecture is, straight to the department, not 911.
Easy to sign your name when you support the power structure. Tougher when you don’t.
EVERY call that comes in is documented. The resolution is documented as well….so there is a record( the whole point of it). IF there was a call why wouldn’t the police records show that. They didn’t. It would make their case better. I don’t believe there was a call. It doesn’t make sense.
Why can’t the phone records be subpoenaed from the origin of the call if it was a land line?
“I don’t believe there was a call”
If there was no call then why did they question Kelly Thomas to begin with?
Are you suggesting they were just driving by and thought he was breaking into cars?
Yes.
IT WILL BE SUBPOENAED DURING “DISCOVERY”. WHERE THEY HAVE TO PRODUCE ALL RELEVANT EVIDENCE TO THE CASE. IF THEY DON’T COUGH IT UP, THE JUDGE CAN ORDER SANCTIONS AGAINST THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY.
Hi Kelly Supporter…I suggest you call KFI THIS AFTERNOON and talk to John and Ken. Please.
I know your friend can’t call, but you can give them your story like you did here.
but wait a minute, Kelly Supporter…. I’m sure i know who you’re speaking of, but according to this report, there WAS NO CALL until AFTER Kelly was beaten. The call was made at 11:30, and Kelly was approached 3 hours earlier.
But i agree, if there was a call by anyone, they certainly had no intention of setting someone up to be beaten to death by 6 rogue cops. All the attacks on the Slidebar were very premature, and that recent article with the accusatory title must have made their lives hellish.
If there was any kind of conspiracy, this evidence shows it was with the cops alone. It looks to me like they rousted him, and it got way, way out of hand.
Your friend can be relieved of feeling bad by contacting the FBI and telling them who set the policy, and if anyone from FPD directed store owners to exaggerate complaints about vagrants i.e. reporting a burglary when the real complaint is vagrancy or if store owners just don’t want homeless people near their businesses. Otherwise, that person is just as guilty as the cops who watched and did nothing. Our guilty feelings should motivate us to recompense!
It’s a well-known fact that crazy homeless people steal cadalytic converters all the time to support their, err…uhh, homelessness.
And Kelly had a bag that could easily fit two cadalytic converters.
Cat converter thieves use a hefty power saw to cut the exhaust piece off.
You moron, you simple minded moron. Kelly had nothing like that, he had no tools, just papers in his backpack!
I think you missed the sarcastic humor of Mr. McPension
Kelly used those papers to remove the converters. He traded the converters for invisible drugs that he didn’t ingest. Its all right there in the re-re-re-re-written police reports. Just watch the video.
That was the first lie. The others in chronological order:
1. We found legal docs that didn’t belong to Kelly. Ended up being random sheets of paper he probably got out of a trash can.
2. Two of our officers suffered broken bones.
3. Our officers were confronted with a violent confrontation or words to that effect.
4. We got the ‘Wrong Guy’ (my personal favorite) concerning the Mr. Mam case.
Did I forget any?
We raided a pastor’s house, took an iPad, raped a citizen in a patrol car, stole money to buy drugs, let murders patrol the streets.
C’mon. This is not constructive.
How about the whopper that Goodrich claimed for a while he didn’t know if a city video of the beating actually existed?
I believe his quote was something about not having any official confirm a video existed. Meanwhile, of course, his brethren were watching it repeatedly to write their reports and the KFI deepthroat was well aware.
Wow.
Why is he still employed?
How can anyone deny a coverup by FPD if he was ordered to tell the public this?
Whitaker should raise the issue of OUR “public information officer” lying to the public at the next city council meeting.
Add this phone call bs to the list
yeah,
5. the promise they made a while back to protect and serve.
Chief Sellers stated he didn’t see any tasers being used in the videos he viewed. I think it was on channel 4 news.
Doesn’t matter. The medical report shows he was tased twice, once in the lower stomach and once in the flank. (If the information I have received so far is accurate.)
That alone shows that the statements by Sellers are insufficient.
Unless there is a recording unit on the tasers there is no way to prove how many times the triggers were pulled to send charges through the wires.
Just watched the first news story on the incident by ABC. Reporter interviews Goodrich of FPD on camera and then in her report says “Police say they received a report of someone breaking in to cars”.
Care to explain Mr. Goodrich? Surely this is not a purposeful false statement as that might cause you to be relieved of your post.
Let me guess, you have a special back line like L.A. does for parking tickets where your friends can call in special requests for police response? You know, the kind of special requests like: “hey, could you send a guy down here to kick the shit out of this crazy guy bothering our customers’?
All I have to say is there better be a good explanation for this or I would expect your name to be a focus of attention at the next public comment period.
Absolutely right.
And they wonder why they have lost the public’s trust?
No burglary, no probable cause, illegal detention = bad news for the taxpayers of Fullerton and jail time for the Fullerton Six.
MORE LIKE PRISON, THEY WON’T GET JAIL TIME EXCEPT FOR TIME AWAITING TRIAL!
For all we know this could be a plant too..
we want facts.. and prosecution
I promise you I’m not a plant. I’ve been to every protest and I’m in full support of prosecution for the officers involved and I signed the recall petition. I’m just standing up for a friend who made a call that they deeply regret. They had no clue that this would be the result.
Please tell them, tell the FBI everything they know. A good step towards clearing their conscience right there. Don’t let this get covered up.
Testimony has been offered. They’re waiting to be interviewed.
HEY OCDA. HEY FBI. interview this source!!!!!!!
waiting?
Kelly Supporter, they obviously are not going to contact your friend who made that fateful call because of the ramifications for them-I personally think they are going to wait along time on purpose before interviewing her if they do at all, so your friend will “forget” details -if I were your poor friend, I’d be highly offended at this stonewalling and want to tell it loud and proud-hope the friend decides to take it to other means, like the media-and I do feel bad for the caller if it was a horrible mistake.
T-Rack was just on CNN and said that they interviewed 151 people. Hmmm…
First the investigation is half way over; now it’s pretty much finished, except for the coroner’s report.
Suggestions – yes, I will sound paranoid, but…
1. Have an attorney take a deposition/sworn statement soon while the memory is fresher than it will be weeks from now; take a friend to the attorney visit
2. Get a copy of the statement and put it in a safe deposit box and mail another copy (or more than one copy) to a trusted friend
3. Give a copy of the statement to a priest or other ministerial person
Call the Thomas lawyer first, do let cops get near this witness. They will corrupt his testimony!
On the other hand you can also contact Michael.Gennaco@oirgroup.org
On the other hand you can also contact Michael.Gennaco@oirgroup.org
Again, why would the police not report the call on the log. It makes them look worse. if anything, I would have expected the log to say something that would back their intervention. It doesn’t. It doesn’t make sense. A call in the log would help the police. I don’t think there was a call. I think this supposed caller is just trying to bring attention to themselves. Goodrich said publicly that there was a call. You would expect it to be there ( not beacause he tells the truth but to back up what he said). Doesn’t make sense.
It has has been well established by now that the police officers in this particular city are not all that bright.
Why don’t you encourage your friend to contact the Orange County Register (maybe the guys over at the “watchdog” section?) and report this “anonymously” (as in the OCR can verify their identity but keep it confidential)?
The DA/FBI don’t seem interested. It has been 2 months now without them so much as talking to him; maybe it’s time to blow the whistle publicly.
Don’t encourage him/her do anything without first speaking to a lawyer. All too often the whistleblowers are the only ones to ever get in trouble.
OK after reading some replies above, I think the idea to contact the Thomas’ lawyer is the best idea. The OCR angle should only be a last resort type of thing.
the OC Register is not Kelly Thomas Friendly, they are greased up for the Coppers-I wouldnt trust them with shit regarding this case
I’m in total agreement with merijoe. I’ve contacted columnists at the Register in the past over various issues, and had always received a response of some sort. Over the past six weeks, I’ve left numerous VM’s and e-mails for Register columnists regarding Kelly Thomas and have been met with nothing but unanswered VM’s, and unanswered e-mails?
I was sincerely hoping that as the major local paper that they might finally step up to the plate and hit one out of the park for Kelly and for justice, and instead have witnessed a bunch of eunuchs afraid to even get in the batter’s box because they’re afraid of their own shadow..
Travis, just a few things…
First, Kelly wasn’t killed on July 5. July 5 was when our PD attempted to illegally search Kelly and then attempted, but failed, to illegally arrest Kelly.
Second, this information only supports that unrelated crimes did occur. What is missing is a REPORT of a POSSIBLE CRIME. How often do people up in the hills call to report a parked car at night? Do each of those calls get logged? How does the PD treat calls of unfounded suspicious activity?
Yes all calls get logged. They even get taped. Someone is not telling the truth Go figure. But it would be in the cop’s favor to report it. It would give them at least an alleged reason to search/detain/ beat/murder so……..they would report it if they had it. I don’t think they have it. I don’t think there was a call. With all the public scrutiny, I really don’t think the DA would withhold it at this point. It’s public info.
Hell, that’s what I was told. You just can’t trust anybody anymore. Hey, I’m a victim, too!
really? you can jack 2 convertors and the police camera wasnt interested in that?
Aren’t their MDT dispatch logs? MDT=Mobile Data Terminal (now they use laptops)
I would think if the call for service was entered into the dispatch log by dispatch, there would be at least a trace that shows the officers were sent by dispatch and not of their own accord.
Of course, if the dispatch log was altered in some way, the FBI will find it.
FBI ain’t doin’ shit.
Got a source for that or just speculating?
Was the call place using a land line?
Get the phone records from that location.
Pat all of the data on MDT’s gets archived. It is subpoena-able.. Stupid iPhone editing! Grrrr! Ruff!
Every call to a police station gets logged.. you think this is 1950 and the kkk are still running shit?
He was MURDERD on July 5th.. unless you think comatose is something he chose on his own and premeditated it..
DAD
DAD
DAD
plunk TASE .. SPLAT.. TASE TASE..
“the cops just beat that guy to death.. they murdered him…” [sic] BUS RIDERS
he was murdered and dead on the scene when the EMT personnel took him to the hospital.. HE WAS BRAIN DEAD from beating after beating
DAD
DAD
DAD
help help help
The illegally and without probable cause did, put their hands on him, did attempt to detain or delay, and Kelly within his Constitutional rights to resist these activities, put his hands up to deflect their illegal touching. He then ran away from them, while he had been sitting on a bus bench . They then proceeded to illegally assault him under the color of authority, commenced to beating his head until he was technically “brain dead.”. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out the sequence of events in this incident!
I can’t wait to hear the courtroom when Mr Thomas
yells
DAD DAD DAD… “why did you murder my son?”
I wouldn’t murder your son or daughter.. but you murdered mine.. why was that ok for you to do..
He was begging for mercy and for you to stop brutalizing him yet you
AND YOUR FELLOW OFFICERS WATCHED as some or all of you reigned down punches and blows that left a huge pool of BLOOD IN FULLERTON STREETS ..
You animals are on camera and there are many many witnesses WHO DO NOT FEAR YOU anymore.. The money you will be forced to pay out will also go to the witnesses who WERE TRAUMATIZED TO SAY THE LEAST to have to watch you animals beat a man to death in front of them .. THEN they had to brave the blue line and TESTIFY about your cowardice and lack of humanity and need to be in a CELL
I do not believe the DA can get out of this or the FBI
they are owned by us and there are enough people are DONE WITH THE BS.. ready to make the sacrifice so the blue line has rusty fucking zippers when the CITIZEN CIVILITY LINE has been crossed.. cowards
These officers are now going to have to explain, to 12 strangers they have never met before, why they really needed to beat Kelly to death.
You make some really good posts. Opinionated, informative, and full of pathos.
In my opinion, FWIW, you could double the effectiveness of the content of your posts if you would stop including one or more of George Carlin’s ‘Seven Dirty Words You Can’t Say on Television.” in every post.
As the story unfold in front of our eyes, it is getting more interestings every days.
Dear God; Please send FBI and the Fed in. Lead by example. If find guilty, we must prosecute these gangs to full extend of the laws, including the Protectors.
Just vote in a new D.A. next election. Back a new candidate next time, Can the D.A. be recalled?
Yes.
But give him the opportunity to do his sworn duty to the law, first.
Recall is always a corrective option if needed.
Great stuff as always, guys—keep it up!
IF they asked you to do what you are describing are you going to admit to us all that you are crazy enough to do it?
Follow orders? from who.. FUCK THEM..
Your
Heart
Mirror
Friends
Family
SELF RESPECT
come before some silly shit like you are trying to take away from them.. the idiots who saw the homeless as nothing but human garbage for the cops to fondle and brutalize are very very guilty also..
FALSE report is a false report no matter who told you to do it.. are you listening Colin Powell?
This is a crucial witness stepping forward. They should not be blamed or chastised. They should be commended for being willing to speak the truth, and they should be supported and protected by the community.
Anon, I generally agree with you and respect your writing. In this case, I think your Nazi analogy is inaccurate. The Nazis who were prosecuted for “obeying orders” actively participated in killing. They obeyed orders to kill or harm somebody, not orders to report where somebody is with only a vague notion of what might actually happen to that person.
**Speculation follows**
This alleged employee most likely had NO IDEA what the cops would do (again, this is pure speculation on my part, but it would seem very likely if Kelly Supporter is telling the truth). This employee wasn’t the one who set up this “protocol”, the boss was. At worst, this employee probably thought the cops would move the homeless man along or drop him off in Stabba Anna or Anacrime (which is VERY COMMON).
False report? OK I can agree with you there…except that if the cops tell you to do something illegal, you may do it. For instance, I was in front of a cop at a red light, but the cop decided he needed to get around me. Using his loudspeaker he told me “just run the light” and I did, so I could let him by. NO I don’t think I should get a ticket for that. IF the cops had negotiated some kind of deal with the boss, and IF they had told the boss to have his employees report such a crime, I don’t see how the employee should have ANY culpability.
**Speculation ending**
That said, whistleblowers are heroes of society. Yet they are often prosecuted the most harshly (or even the only ones prosecuted at all). If this employee helps the case, then they are a hero and should be protected.
Cops can’t tell you to do anything that is illegal, that’s called entrapment. I would hope people on these boards go back to the days where common sense, compassion, doing the right thing becomes the norm. Think of ramifications before you act, think it through first!
Stud Lee on September 1, 2011
Anon, I generally agree with you and respect your writing. In this case, I think your Nazi analogy is inaccurate. The Nazis who were prosecuted for “obeying orders” actively participated in killing. They obeyed orders to kill or harm somebody, not orders to report where somebody is with only a vague notion of what might actually happen to that person
>……….<
That said, whistleblowers are heroes of society. Yet they are often prosecuted the most harshly (or even the only ones prosecuted at all). If this employee helps the case, then they are a hero and should be protected.
Agreed
Alright genius, prior to this event nothing like this had happened. The caller didn’t know the person was homeless, they received complaints and placed the call simple as that.
What were the complaints?
Am I to understand that the call was placed as a result of what “other people” told the person that actually placed the call took place?
I am having a hard time figuring out how this fits into reporting “specific things” and “protocol”.
Please explain.
You may feel they are innocent because they were just following protocol, but they still called in a FALSE report if they stated, “Someone is breaking into cars,” when the real report should’ve been “We don’t want the homeless person hanging around our back patio, please come remove them.”
To my mind, a set-up equals conspiracy.
“protocol” what exactly does that mean? details please.
Protocol put in place by superiors?
Protocol for WHAT? Did this person see Kelly doing anything or was the protocol to call if he was hanging around and considered a nuisance?
Please elaborate on this “protocol put in place by superiors”.
Protocol for police response. The FPD told Slidebar owners to have their employees report specific things in order for police to respond. The caller never had police react this way prior so they made the call as usual. It’s not their fault that the police decide to go off the deep end and murder Kelly Thomas.
Fair enough, then the questions are these;
1) Were they instructed to report “specific things” whether or not those things were true because that would to get a response?
2) What did the caller report?
3) Was there any truth to what they reported?
Good questions.
So Tony, have you followed up and contacted the caller? “Kelly Supporter” says you have been infomed of the caller’s identity and the caller is willing to talk. If you can’t think of any I’m sure ‘through different eyes’ won’t mind if you use his/her questions! 🙂
Wow. Just wow. A-friggin-mazing. I’m sure your friend was doing their job. OC Weekly had this up and I believe it. I’ve heard this before from someone else who works in that area. Watch-it’s now going to be told that oh no you paranoid conspiracy theorists, there WAS no car break-in. We were hiding that because we knew you were crazy nuts, yadayadayada.
What I don’t understand is why the FPD told The Slidebar to say maybe that he was harrassing people. Don’t the police come out for that? I’ve heard that a Starbucks in the area also had issues with Kelly when he was agitated and the FPD responded to that.
excuse me-why DIDN’T the FPD tell The Slidebar to say that maybe he was harrassing people. I guess he would be, in a weird sense.
will this info go to the Thomas Family attorney? I think this is a HUGE implication and changes things….WOW!!
Please answer ‘Through Different Eyes’ question Kelly Supporter. It is a reasonable one and inquiring minds, that is all us, would like to know.
By the way Kelly Supporter, I am with you in the sympathy you feel for your friend, as you mentioned she was following orders from superiors, I assume you meant Slidebar management. They, the superiors should be accountable as well as FPD for those underhanded instructions given to Slidebar mgnmt.
This makes everyone involved in this conspiracy aiders and abettors to felony murder! This is beyond a reasonable doubt, premeditated murder.
http://fullertonstories.com/opinion-when-worlds-collide/
interesting story….
Through different eyes – Popoff said that the police have been good to the homeless in the area near his bar. “The cops have been really lenient with him and other homeless. He was allowed to get away with a lot more because he was homeless. The cops gave him a lot of breaks.” (But this time they decided to kill him)
“We’ve given him lots of stuff,” Popoff added. “[He was] not allowed to be here anymore because Kelly did not respect our customers.”
(Paragraph Redacted) (I wonder what was said and then redacted?)
so popoff thinks not killing you or harrassing you is lenient. guess thats the break he speaks of
Indeed. Especially this part:
(begin excerpt) “I feel guilty having ever had any contempt for this guy, but if you had asked me about him a month ago, I’d have nothing good to say about him,” Popoff said. “I don’t want to say that it was justified, what happened. But man, Kelly scared people. We …. were always having to kick him out of our bathrooms or tell him to leave customers alone. Then he would yell at us.”
Popoff is not alone. Another local business owner, who wanted to remain anonymous, expressed sadness for the situation, and then added, “This guy, I’d wouldn’t be surprised if he was an asshole to the cops. He was an asshole to everybody.”(end excerpt)
And this:
(begin) “We’ve given him lots of stuff,” Popoff added. “[He was] not allowed to be here anymore because Kelly did not respect our customers.”
(Paragraph Redacted)
(end excerpt)
I’ve always wondered what was originally in that paragrapgh Fullerton Stories later felt obliged to redact. That being said, as someone who’s been in Popoff’s spot, dealing humanely with transients and such while trying to run an attractive business, I can relate to his frustration, and perhaps even sympathize with Kelly Supporter’s friend for the terrible position she’s in now, but at the end of the day it’s the cops who are responsible for their actions, not the caller.
Hah, Danny Boy, we posted at the same time. Gerat minds think alike! 🙂
…still reads like a hack piece to me written by a morally corrupt person attempting to justify beating a mentally ill man to death.
I respect that but they need to know their line of thinking was very wrong.. but sadly.. the only way that will be evidenced for them may be when the police officers are shown to have been in the wrong
I do apologize for coming off so harsh on the person who did as the GED cops told them to do.. IF true..
Hey everybody;
way to get on this fast and have an excellent discussion before the trolls show up.
They will eventually appear and say it’s all lies. Ignore them. They are nothing but propogandists and apologists for police brutality and corruption. They are probably also paid shills.
They get to these articles just as soon as us. The reason we don’t see them actually post for a few hours is because they are determining their strategies. They’ll be on here shortly.
Agreed JT. I will ignore the trolls. Hopefully everyone else will.
more proof the OC DA does NOT prosecute law enforcement KILLERS:
OC District Attorney Fails to Press Charges on Killer Cop
http://justiceforjulian.freewayscollide.com/updates/
Big surprise: Rackauckas gives killer-cop a pass, promotes secrecy
http://orangepunch.ocregister.com/2009/03/17/big-surprise-rackauckas-gives-killer-cop-a-pass-promotes-secrecy/7811/
Agreeing with Carol about OC DA not holding the cops accountable for their murderous actions. My conclusion is the Brea PD ambushed and killed Julian. With the city boundaries as they are, any of us who are out and about can find ourselves in any of the places where these out of control cops are getting away with numerous atrocities. Another reason why ALL of Orange County and CA. citizens should be very concerned.
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2011/08/slidebar_kelly_thomas_call_police.php
I think flyers with Kellys face need to be put on all the cars at slidebar and city hall everyday if possible
unless that is a crime
Do a Saturday protest in front of Slidebar!
Join the peaceful protest/sit in at the OC DA’s office Friday Sept 16th 3pm
Orange County DA’s Office
401 Civic Center Drive West
Santa Ana, California
Enough is Enough- lets send a strong message that he must prosecute killer cops!!
I respect whistleblowers and wish our society would do something that could turn off nightly NETWORK news.. they are all criminals
The whistelblower in 911 who sent reports asking why students didn’t care to takeoff with their airplanes they only wanted to fly after takeoff… etc..
Key difference in your red light scenario.. you knew there was no potential for some sort of malice or serious lie about a citizen etc..
Reporting someone for what you know is false is not the same
They knew he wasn’t doing what they said
Sadly you are correct about “following orders” .. I think this society has taken away self respect and put government and politics and military above our own conscience
the actual voters.. the ones who think they can affect decisions by the politicians have no real clue that the ultra wealthy own the politicians… they don’t even bother to vote.. each side is the same when it comes to giving them what they want
Carol,
Is this protest at the DA’s office approved by Ron Thomas?
Is your comment approved by Ron Thomas?
I thought it was general knowledge that the DTF Area and The FPD have been in cahoots for decades?
Also ANONYMOUS I have been posting fliers for Kelly Thomas all over the train station area, bus turnarounds, the rest of Fullerton, Buena Park, Anaheim and Brea.. they are always taken down after a day but I am only trying to create awareness anyway.
If that phone call was made, we should see the records from the phone the caller used. Seems simple enough.
Alright you guys seriously stop talking here and start hitting up other blogs.
I have been writing newspapers and reporters until they are sick of me.
We just have to keep the spotlight on this issue and spread awareness of the situation as far as possible.
Yesterday an Indian student who just returned from INDIA said she heard about the Kelly Thomas Murder this summer while she was there. I was so happy to hear it. Keep up the GREAT WORK Y’ALL
NoJustice NoPeace
thank you for that tear of joy
all one or none.. is so hard for most to comprehend but you live it breathe it inspire it and your enthusiasm will be rewarded.. I am sure it already is by your mirror every morning /hug
Compassion is a hard word to bring into a discussion about someone who just commited a seriously violent act but we must have some compassion/understanding for the families and children of the accused for they should not be forced to pay for their fathers sins etc.. AND
These brutalizers had long history of influence to bring them to this point .. a society filled with people who look at people with mental disease and homelessness as miscreants and worthless bones etc..
we all let them get this way by focusing on our own self importance and not living as a connected whole..
)))HUG(((
Wewill prevail for Kelly and for our future
Rebecca Rijnders has the right idea.
Perserverence is the only way to achieve justice.
Keep Kelly in front of the public eye.
Perservence can prevent ‘Out of sight, out of mind.’ from allowing anything from being swept under the rug.
YOU GO GIRL!!!!!
No one in Fullerton is safe until these cops are in jail, for murder, for decades. The chief should resign, and possibly others in the blue line should resign and/or be jailed. And no pensions or benefits for any of them either.
I read the so-called reports. They are disgraceful to say the least, they tell you nothing.
These reports were about catalytic converters being stolen from cars left in train station parking areas. So much for police cameras aye?
These reports do not say the auto burgs were involving actual getting inside cars to remove property, which blows the lie that Kelly had stuff stolen in his backpack! Another lie.
Next comes the issue of stolen convertors, you need tools, like screw drivers and such to remove them. Did Kelly have any of these kinds of tools in his backpack. If he did, surely the trolls would have brought it up!
All one needs is a hacksaw blade.
I had a friend went into a store for less than a minute (not counting the additional 1minute each way to walk back and forth from the car.)
When he got back to the car the coverter was gone. You don’t need fancy tools to do it.
Where are my comments going?
Many of the others that should go are the higher ranking officers, the ones who aide and condone their field officers’ wrong doings. Don’t forget the decrepid looking councilmen in the middle, including Mayor Suck, er I mean Dick.
With all the poo flying out of NoGoodrich’s mouth, could we get a video of him similar to this beauty?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL_s9YhT-_U
Ah, finally the smoking gun. Truth will win out. I would like to take the high ground here, but I think it is time for a pig roast! I do not want to paint all officers in the FPD, or those in city government with the same brush as I believe that there are many in those positions with integrity. But these murderous 6, they are truly a disgrace to their profession, to the people of Fullerton, to California, to the USA, and above all to humanity. It is going to be a most pleasurable thing to watch the DA, FPD brass, Mayor, and certain city councillors play frantically at the cover your ass game. I have heard of this case from friends in North Carolina, Vermont, and New Hampshire, I have enlightened those close to me in my town about Kelly’s murder. I even met two german tourist recently and they asked me about the case! The story is out and there are many very angry preople out here. To “the powers that be” in Fullerton, JUSTICE WILL BE DONE.
This essentially CONFIRMS what we knew all along. There were no “car burglaries” and the police never had any reason to confront or detain Kelly Thomas. It was all a setup.
Just like we suspected, the call had been made from the Slidebar. And we all know who the “superior” was that Kelly Supporter mentioned. It was Jeremy Popoff.
This also confirms that police had in fact “coached” the Slidebar into making a fake call claiming that cars were being burglarized. And how much do you want to bet that it was the very same cops who would later beat him to death?
I had thought that Jeremy Popoff had made the call to a non-emergency dispatch number at the FPD, so there wouldn’t be a 911 recording. But now I’m thinking something else happened. One of the cops (maybe even a regular at the Slidebar) had probably talked with Jeremy Popoff and given him a business card with a direct number. Jeremy had an employee call that number to falsely report that someone was trying to break into cars.
When the cops found Kelly Thomas, they knew darn well that there were NO car burglaries, because they had already made an arrangement with the Slidebar.
They never had a reason to detain him.
They never had a reason to arrest him.
And they never had a reason to beat him to death.
“They never had a reason to detain him.”
In practice, the cops don’t really need much of a reason. Suspicion of loitering, smelled like weed, acting suspiciusly, whatever. Probable cause comes into play at trial, not on the street.
“They never had a reason to arrest him.”
If he ran they did, otherwise you might be right, but do you know for sure?
“And they never had a reason to beat him to death.”
Exactly, and this is all that really matters, the rest is just a distraction. Focus. That’s likely what the DA is doing.
In order to stop and question someone, they need to have a reasonable suspicison that a crime has occured and even then you are protected by the 5th Amendment to not answer. Also, your Miranda rights have to be read to you prior to questioning when placing you under arrest and you have acknowledge that you understand and agree to the questioning. Most people without mental illness don’t even know this, much less Kelly who had mental illness.
They were just bullying Kelly because they they thought they could get away with it.
There was no justification for stopping Kelly. There was no justification for searching him. They killed him. Period.
cicinelli has wanted to kill a guy with a big beard since one shot the heck out of him.
Interesting how this apparently went right over everyone’s head here. Lots of suggestions to contact the OCR, the Thomas’ and various lawyers, but why hasn’t anyone asked Tony to follow up and see what ‘the caller’ has to say?
At the end of the day, all this is just a distraction. Juries are notoriously reluctant to find cops guilty. Getting a conviction of cops for using excessive force is going to be hard enough, even with a video and a conclusive autopsy. Throw in a confusing theory of a larger, dark conspiracy and you’ll just make it harder.
Callers embelish reports to get cops out to a scene all the time, that doesn’t necessarily tie them to the criminal actions of the officers once they get there, except by the most tortured kind of logic.
One time I witnessed a motrocycle crash. I called 911 and told the dispatcher that it might have been a police bike that was involved. Of course every cop in the city rushed to the scene, including an undercover car that looked like a hot rod. The guy that crashed got the kind of immediate attention he would have never received otherwise. Now, if the cops had arrived and beat the hell out of the guy for some reason does anyone really want to tell me I would have been partially responsible? Puhhleeeze.
My lawyer friends don’t agree with your analysis. They had no right to detain Kelly Thomas if no crime had been committed. And the police deleting a call log is yet another crime and another nail in the coffin for whatever minute shred of credibility FPD had left.
Technically your ‘lawyer friends’ are right, in practice not so much.
Again, probable cause is an issue at trial, on the street the cops have many, many reasons they can use to stop and question somebody.
I got pulled over recently because I had dirt on my license plate. The cop said “I thought maybe it had been altered so I pulled you over” When he saw it was just dirt, I said, okay, see ya.” Cop said, ‘whoa, wait a minute, while I’ve got you here, let’s see your registration, license and proof of insurance.” He also checked the car for an open container, the smell of weed or alcohol, etc. The altered license plate bit was just an excuse to pull me over and go on a fishing expedition. If I had gone to trial for any fish he’d caught I could have argued that it was an illegal stop, and maybe it would have worked as a defense, or maybe not, but you get the point, right?
That’s true. But, let’s say for example that Kelly was standing near a table inside The Slidebar and simply staring at the patrons but looked like he wanted to hurt someone. All an example, but let’s just go with it. Wouldn’t The Slidebar have been able to call the police and say we have a man harrassing our patrons and trespassing? I’m just asking as I don’t know. That sounds accurate to me. Like I said before, I heard that a Starbucks had problems with Kelly to which the FPD responded-and didn’t beat him.
And I’ve done the same thing too EyeNeverSayNo. I had a neighbor once who called the cops because one of those door to door magazine salespeople threatened him and his family when he said nope, not interested and leave now. The PD took their sweet assed time coming out. I called again and said there’s a fight now between the neighbor and the magazine salesman. COME NOW. They did. (No fight. It was probably going to start in two seconds had I not called, but I saw no fight.) And they didn’t beat the magazine salesperson. Damn!
And to me, that would look BAD if Tony Bushala approached The Slidebar caller. That’s good that he or she is willing to talk though. Come forward on your own, caller, when you are ready.
“Wouldn’t The Slidebar have been able to call the police and say we have a man harrassing our patrons and trespassing? I’m just asking as I don’t know. That sounds accurate to me.”
Yes, that’s accurate.
“…that would look BAD if Tony Bushala approached The Slidebar caller.”
Why? Sometimes Mr. Bushala plays the “I just have a blog” card, as he did recently when a poster referred to his ‘movement,’ but in his profile Tony calls himself an ‘activist.’ What’s wrong with getting active and following up on a lead like this one? It’s kinda what activists are supposed to do… right?
He can do whatever he wants, but I personally feel that if the person wants to talk, let them make the decision to come forward. I feel that the person wants to talk to him, so come forward when you are ready to. Saying Tony Bushala knows the caller and they can talk to them is just too open ended to me.
Just my two cents……….
he wasnt inside i dont get your point?
Way off subject, but just wondering: two catalytic converters on Tacoma trucks in the same day? Are these things dusted in gold?
Last year DMV changed the rules, used to be a $200 converter was an option, but the cheap ones don’t last long, now you have to put in a higher quality converter that costs $400 to $600 and lasts longer. The unintended consequence was that they created a black market for stolen converters. There is almost always an unintended consequence to everything. Hopefully this sidebar to the Kelly Thomas murder won’t have an unintended consequence…
platinum
Do you know if the call made from a land line?
Kelly Supporter…call KFI this afternoon, please. We need to get them fired up about this again. Tell your story about your friend to John and Ken.
Great suggestion Chris. However, if this Kelly Supporter friend who called values her job, she aint’t callin’ no one.
Probably true. But coming here and talking is risky, too.The caller/Slidebar employee can’t legally be fired for what their friend, Kelly Supporter does. Kelly Supporter attends the demonstrations, and came here to post. Why would calling KFI be any different?
note , catalytic converters contain, platinum, palladium or rhodium, and those usually fetch around $150 at the scrap yard.
and when our system fails , how bout a citizens arrest on all these sick pigs.
They aren’t stealing ’em for scrap. They get put into cars by unscrupulos mechanics so the owner can pass the smog test. The owner pays hundreds of dollars for a ‘new’ converter, and then pays again two years later when they get the DMV notice, and the owner never knows the difference.
Right Chris. I thought in your previous post you meant that Kelly Supporter’s friend who make the call to cops, make the call to KFI.
and i feel we need to step it up , beyond signs and chants.
maybe we should wait until THE SYSTEM fails US again,
and if we don’t use this to push HARD for REAL change , then we will loose a golden opportunity, and then THE SYSTEM will continue to fail US OVER AND OVER AND OVER ,
Here is another interesting quote from the declaration of independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[75] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence
Lets please stay on topic. There is no proof or even suggestion that Kelly was involved with catalytic converters. The other side is only trying to distract focus.
Just having a discussion doc.
Actually the whole ‘who called’ thing is a distraction from what will be a difficult uphill battle when this case goes to trial. My advice to those really interested in justice for Kelly Thomas (through a successful prosecution of those involved in his murderous beatdown) is to drop it.
every detail goes to state of mind. the call is the conspiracy that led to death,making it homicide in commission of another felony. death penalty territory
I just wanted to point out that apparently there is someone else named “Chris” here. That last person isn’t me. I’m the one who posted in #125, saying that the police never had any reason to detain or arrest Kelly.
The caller made a false report, but this makes it look even worse for the cops. They absolutely KNEW beforehand that there were NO car burglaries, because they had already made an arrangement with the Slidebar. So they already knew they had no reason to detain or arrest Kelly Thomas.
But here’s an even more chilling thought…what exactly did the cops say to Kelly? Since they knew there had been no car burglaries, what did they say to him when they first found him? Witnesses say that the cops talked to him for several minutes at least, before he tried to run away. Maybe he knew that they were going to do something to him. And of course once he tried to run away, two cops tackled him and smashed his head onto a curb and it got out of control from that point on.
I will refer to myself as ChrisStone from now on. Sorry if it confused anyone.
I am the Chris who posted about KFI…not #145.
Chris? As in Chris Thompson?
Im sorry, I didnt mean to say “her” I dont know if its a her or him -sorry-my hands are moving faster than my brain
merijoe – no need to apologize. Your posts don’t typicaly get responses and most likely are not read either
Will the second Chris please change your name to Chris2 or something different so we could distinguish the difference? Thanks.
Just did.
Sorry ChrisStone you already changed it.
Has anyone been listening to KFI’s John and Ken show? I have but I haven’t heard them mention anything about this Kelly Thomas case at all.
I think they’ve been mentioning it every now and then. I emailed the show a little while ago; haven’t heard anything yet.
Emailed them this morning..
They are kind of caught up with the DreamAct right now.. but hopefully they mention this story today.
Im not a “car” lady but arent catalytic converters on the outside of a car-under the hood and wasnt the call about someone breaking into cars? not opening up hoods of cars?
Under the car attached to the exhaust pipe… and they are stealing them for the precious metals in them. Especially Toyotas.
oh, thats where they are-hmm, I think if I was a caller I would notice there a man lying on the ground by exhaust pipes, not “looking inside of cars trying to break inside” but thats me
cats are part of the exhaust piping, UNDER the car.
Hopefully, the FBI knows about this!
They knew about Mike Corona.
Good point!!
Yeah, the other Chris just changed his screen name. I’ve been posting here for a long time now. I’m the original Chris, who posted comments last night about the anonymous informant. I was questioning you-now-who (I don’t even want to say his name but you know who I’m talking about) about why the informant seemed to have so much accurate information.
Also, just to avoid even further confusion…I am NOT Chris Thompson.
But to me, the call is not a distraction at all. In fact, it’s relevant and extremely important. If the Fullerton police had coached the Slidebar into making a fake call about car burglaries, and already had an arrangement with them about that, then the cops who confronted Kelly Thomas KNEW BEFOREHAND that he had not been breaking into cars. It also proves that the FPD was outright lying about a lot of other things, such as “documents” being in his backpack.
The cops went there under false pretenses. And they knew it. They’re real goal was to remove Kelly Thomas with whatever means necessary. They knew perfectly well he wasn’t breaking breaking into cars or doing anything else wrong (they knew because that was the lie they had already arranged with the Slidebar). Kelly probably tried to tell them he hadn’t done anything wrong, but the cops had already made up their minds that they were going to take him away that night regardless. He tried to run away because he somehow sensed they were going to do something to him. The cops became enraged at that, and they tackled him at beat him to death.
The only “crime” Kelly Thomas was guilty of was contempt of cop, and not wanting to be carried off like a piece of trash, when he had done nothing wrong.
This is scary, because this could literally happen to any of us. How many other Jay Cicinelli’s are out there?
Yeah right!?
I’ve noticed Chris Thompson, Travis Kiger, and Greg Sea Biscuit don’t comment anymore since the Recall campaign started.
We’re going to go from the “Three Blind Mice” to the “Three Stooges!”
I can’t blame you boys, I wouldn’t want to get to close to Bushala either. Unfortunately, too late for you guys!
Bushala is making the recall happen..
IF you want to talk to any of the men you just mentioned, as well as plenty of others, stay tuned and come out to the Recall meetings.
You just might realize that some of your information is incorrect.
Hmm, aren’t you forgetting Barry Levinson? Isn’t he one of “Tony’s guys”? What about the others who like Tony?
And just what is your problem with Tony anyways? Are you jealous? Did you get weened at too early an age? Tony has his faults but he has done a lot more for Fullerton than YOU.
I love Tony! I wish I could be just like him!
Cops lie. What a shock.
http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-04-16/news/moxley-confidential/
We give our police extraordinary power, and surprise surprise, they don’t give a fuck about going there ‘under false pretenses.’ They are the good guys and the rest of us are assholes and potential assholes. That’s how they see it and it’s actually not too hard to understand how they get that way. The end justifies the means when you are the good guys. This is what is behind the ‘blue wall of silence.’
This is a human dynamic that’s not likely to change, so the best we can hope for is a conviction on serious charges relating to excessive use of force. If you want to make this into a broader referendum on how cops approach their day to day contacts with civilians, go ahead, but you aren’t going to get anywhere and you’ll only weaken by confusion and lack of focus the real case against the thug cops who murdered Kelly Thomas. The DA knows this and isn’t likely to drag the ‘who called’ issue into the trial. It would just be stupid.
Murder? Why do say murder?
California Penal Code 187 (a) PC defines murder as “the unlawful killing of a human being or a fetus with malice aforethought.”
When a defendant “with wanton disregard for human life, does an act that involves a high degree of probability that it will result in death,” he acts with malice aforethought.
I would submit that the kind of beating apparently administered to Kelly Thomas, drop-knees to the windpipe, battering about the head with the butt end of a Taser, multiple high powered electric shocks, etc, involved a high degree of probability that it would result in death, therefore the officers participated in a killing with malice aforethought.
And of course an easy case could be made for second degree murder: the willful taking of a life that was not deliberate or premeditated.
All that is required here is to show malice, the elements of which are (a) The killing resulted from an intentional act; (b) The natural consequences of the act are dangerous to human life; and (c) The act was deliberately performed with knowledge of the danger to, and with conscious disregard for, human life.
My only problem with this is that the letter shows police reports. Never every call leads to a police report. The original story from the FPD is that a call was placed regarding suspicious circumstances of a man looking into cars , that doesn’t mean a report has been filed. Police are sent out for “suspicious circumstances” all the time. I’ve read that the call was made to a non-emergency number so it would not show up in police dispatch records or reports.
And the ever-burning question is – why was he arrested? The only legal way he could be in custody by police is to be detained for questioning. A police officer has the right to detain you long enough to see whether probable cause exists to arrest you.
A call was definitely made but the info is this post doesn’t lead us anywhere closer to the truth – save for, of course, Kelly Supporter in the comments.
There was no report because nobody was breaking into cars. If the cops set up the phone call and knew no crime was being committed then they had no cause to question anybody about a non-existing crime.
What do you maen there was “no report?” Even a “set up,” false report is still a report.
If the bar manager or owner called in a false report just to get somebody out there, and even if it was something they had been told to do by a cop, we still don’t know that the officers who responded were aware of the ruse.
Besides, unless there is some other agenda here, it doesn’t fkn matter. It was the officers who responded who committed a real and serious crime, at the very least the ‘the willful taking of a life that was not deliberate or premeditated.’ Murder in the second degree.
That is not true. Police have the right to detain anyone who was believed to be involved in a crime.
Someone makes the call, police go out and find the person matching the description. They do not go directly to the person who made the call. They go straight to the scene.
If you happen to fit the description, legally you can be detained for questioning. Any of us, Tony, can be detained for questioning if we fit the description of a call made to police. There is a huge difference between an arrest and being detained. If there is probable cause based on questioning or a pat-down search during detainment then a formal arrest can occur where you are read your Miranda Rights and so forth.
You have to keep in mind there is nowhere they say Kelly was formally arrested.
It appears they did not even make it as far to get an official report. When the police said they got a report, they didn’t mean there was a police report filed. A formal police report takes days to file. They meant someone reported via a call that a man was looking like he was breaking into cars.
They detained Kelly based on the likely false information they had but did they know that it was false? We don’t know for sure. Your hypothesis involves the police setting up the call. I disagree with that. Was there a certain non emergency number the caller was provided with if they had trouble? Possibly. But saying that police set it up is reaching.
The protocol is to detain a suspect that fits a description in order to question he/she about the crime. It appears that during the questioning is when Kelly got up and that can be interpreted as resisting.
Legally you are not supposed to resist even if you are just being detained. We would all hope careful consideration should be taken if the person is mentally ill – but as we can see, that was not the case. Force was no doubt used and the only thing we can expect legally out of this case is whether or not it can be proven that it was excessive.
You can say laws regarding resisting arrest and detainment are geared toward protecting LEO’s but it helps to know and/or cite them, as to not make an ass outta yourself or the cause.
So there is no report because it seems they weren’t even done investigating the call they received. The call won’t show up in the logs if it was made to a non-emergency number. So what I am trying to say here, if you are looking for documentation, you aren’t going to find any because it had not even proceeded that far yet to be able to be documented. It was still in the process of investigation when they allege Kelly was resisting. Like I said earlier, you are not supposed to resist detainment – however if you are perceived to be doing so, force will be used on you regardless if that was your intention.
Should the call, if found to be a false, strike up moral outrage? Yes as in we all know the homeless go through enough already and should not be subject to being “driven out” over false allegations. But legally, there won’t be any proof the call was false unless the person who made it admits that it was. Otherwise, you can bet they will take it as it is.
Hmmmm, who taught you your version of law? It is obvious that it is police academy indoctrination! We citizens have a right to resist an unlawful detention or arrest. We may also use deadly force on a cop during an unlawful arrest. So, go get your blankie and look up Elk vs US. It is a Supreme Court decision that verifies what I just wrote!
Fedup: I’m a lawyer, though not a criminal lawyer. Still, I learned criminal law and criminal procedure in law school and was tested on it during the bar exam. You can cite Elk vs. US and any other case law you would like. The law isn’t going to change the reality of the procedures used by the police. Moreover, although Elk stands for a certain proposition, the facts of this case, as presented by counsel for either side, would be totally distinguishable. Even if you conclude that Elk stands for the proposition that you have a right to self defense against an illegal arrest, the gray area between what is a stop, a detention and an arrest is such that nobody can speak in absolutes about when their detention of him became an arrest. Hmmm’s comments are greatly appreciated because they help laypersons like ourselves understand some of the procedural aspects of this case. People hear the word “report” and think that means a 3 page typewirtten report of the incident. Hmmm provides clarification about that. It also provides some insight into the officers’ own understanding of the requirements of a lawful stop, detention and or arrest. And though you may disagree with his or her assertion about the use of force against someone “resisting” arrest, it is still insightful to hear an officer’s understanding. Unlike the rabble rousing knuckleheads that comment on here purporting to know and support the police, Hmmm’s comments offer actual insight and do not appear to me to have any sort of bent. He or she is probably not the type of law enforcement input that needs to be chased off just because you disagree with their understanding of the laws regulating the use of force.
whats up JL fewer people swallowing your bull at PINAC
Here is an interesting quote from the declaration of independence:
‘He (the then present King of Great Britian) has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository or their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
This just in:
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2011/09/kelly_thomas_story_goes_nation.php
Jane-well, its in the media now…I just emailed this story to john and ken, hope others did too
Sometimes the word ‘COOPERATION’ has a meaning that is far reaching.
How many FPD officers are employed or accept any gratuities from the 42 bars in Fullerton? There is a pretty good possibility that there is actually a network existing among the security personnel (bouncers) and owners\managers with FPD selected officers.
YES, similar to the way the MAFIA and/or YAKUZA operate their insurance/protection rackets.
One big problem with the homeless hanging around is that they see to much.
Question… why would the F. B. fucking I. be in Fullerton? Cops murder civilians with impunity all the time. The only possible difference is the degree of public outrage. Are they just here to keep it from turning into a riot? Otherwise, the FBI doesn’t give a rat’s ass-hole about excessive force from police.
I should put a bar of soap in my mouth.
Conjecturing here but maybe ’cause the Chief kept most of these cops on duty 3 weeks after the incident. Then when the heat got hot, all off to paid admin leave and Chief says “I’m outta here boys, not feeling too good.”
That looks like a corrupt department in most peoples mind. Also, didn’t one of the council members specifically request the FBI to investigate?
BTW, I hate usernames that make me hungry, “pulled pork”. LOL
thats what the piggies at Danziger Bridge thought too
I hear Irish Spring tastes better than Dial. (-:
I emailed J&K with the link, as well.
I’m not surprised that murders lie. I would be surprised if FPD ever told the truth.
It’s automatic self-preservation.
We all do it.
Thats not to say it’s the right thing to do.
Another article that has an interesting comment section as well;
http://greaterlongbeach.com/31/08/2011/the-kelly-thomas-case-involuntary-manslaughter-or-felony-murder
When you follow all the links to get to the radio show, ADVANCE THE RADIO SHOW TO 32:20
This isn’t a comprehensive list of all the calls that the cops received, it’s a list of all the crimes that were reported in the area on that date. Since Kelly hadn’t committed any crime, it makes since that there wouldn’t be an entry for the call that resulted in Kelly’s death.
What you really need are the dispatch logs (not just the blotter) from the evening of 7/5/11. Those will tell you who called the police, what time they called, what they reported, who responded, etc.
Yes. But the doc does show no crimes reported related to Kelly Thomas.
Right, but that’s not the issue. The question of whether or not Kelly’s beating was justified will not turn on whether or not Kelly had actually committed any crimes; it will turn on the degree of force that was used to subdue a suspect.
Remember, police don’t need “probable cause” to stop a person in a public place, pat that person down, and arrest that person for any contraband discovered in their possession; they only need “reasonable suspicion”. This is called a “Terry stop” (see Terry v. Ohio).
Reasonable suspicion can be something as innocent as “I noticed he was walking funny and I thought he might have a gun in his waistband”. In Kelly’s case, police could have briefly stopped Kelly for any number of reasons (i.e. he was acting suspiciously and had no lawful business there).
Even if the initial stop was justified, however, it doesn’t necessarily follow that the beating was warranted. I’m not trying to make excuses for the officers who murdered Kelly, but we should focus on the real issue here.
Now, if the Slidebar was making false reports because the 909ers who frequent the place are afraid of innocent homeless people, that’s another issue. Goodbar might have also been caught in (another) lie, but that also a separate issue.
By dwelling on the question of whether or not Kelly was burglarizing cars, I’m afraid that we’re putting the victim on trial here. It’s like a rape trial where all the attention is focused on whether or not the victim was wearing a short skirt. Let’s focus on the actions of the cops who murdered Kelly rather than on the actions of a scared, mentally ill, harmless homeless man.
You, sir, are 100% correct.
Thank you. I hope some are listening.
Yes. Many are listening.
Here’s hoping that people of conscience continue to do so to lift the quality of the processes in this case to the level of justice we are all taught to desire and facillitate with honorable action.
Yes, but the headline of this blog entry refers to a “missing phone call,” not a “missing crime report.”
The supporting docs don’t seem to cover a call such as “Hi, I just saw somebody suspicious like and stuff bending down and looking into car windows parked out front, can you send somebody over?”
Gonzo is right, you need the call log to support the implications you guys have made.
Oops. Caught my own typo a second too late. “It makes SENSE…”
Just sent that new OCWeekly link posted above to John & Ken at KFI.
johnandkenshow@kfi640.com
if you want to send the OCWeekly link to them
I emailed John and Ken too. I don’t know if they will actually read it, but I put “new info about Kelly Thomas case” as the subject line, to get their attention, and I tried to keep the email as short and to the point as possible. I said that so far EVERYTHING the annonymous informant told them earlier has turned out to be true, and I told them about this new blog disccusion and how it has been revealed that an employee at the Slidebar was following orders to make a fake call to the police.
What really makes me suspicious (as if I needed anything else) is how the DA has apparently not talked with this employee from the Slidebar. Kelley Supporter has said that his or her friend (the employee) has offered to make a statement, but so far the DA does not seem to be interested.
And yet they’re saying that the investigation is “halfway complete” ? This is an extremely important detail. It shows that the cops went there specifically to remove Kelly Thomas. Their probable cause to detain or arrest him was completely and deliberately fabricated.
Sure, cops make things up all the time to pull people over. The most common one is to say that you were “weaving.” But at least in that case, they are usually doing it because they have an intuitive bad feeling about the car or driver. I’m not saying that’s right either, but at least it’s a little more understandable. But in THIS case, the ENTIRE reason for why the cops went there in the first place was based on a lie they had fabricated with the Slidebar. They went out of their way specifically to target Kelly Thomas…based on an agreement they had with the Slidebar.
That is the defiition of a conspiracy.
It wasn’t an “embellishment.” It was an outright lie that the cops had created in cooperation with the Slidebar.
The reason why the DA hasn’t interviewed the employee is because they don’t want to – it makes the cops look really bad, and there is no explanation for it.
I think Ron Thomas had said that the FBI was looking into whether the call had originated from the Slidebar. I really hope they are investigating all this, because I have a feeling the DA is going to ignore what they don’t want to see.
I couldn’t agree more.
At the memorial one day last week, Ron did say he/they were looking into that ‘rumor’ about the FPD & Slidebar communication.
If Slidebar is innocent how come they dont speak up?
Who said they were innocent? According to the owner, Thomas had been banned from the premises for bad behavior. Sounds like they had had some problems with him. It’s not hard to imagine that the problems with transients in the area was not limited to Kelly, and it doesn’t seem that far off to imagine the Slidebar management hearing somehow that the way to get the cops out roust ’em would be to report suspicious activity around parked cars.
But the point is, it doesn’t matter more than a hill of beans. Read Gonzo’s post above. The cops don’t need real probable cause to stop and search anybody. They didn’t need an excuse to stop Thomas.
The call was just a ‘hey, we got a transient problem here…” dressed up a bit. I’m sure they had made ’em before. The cops come out, the transient moves along, end of story. Until one night when things got way, way out of control. And that should be the focus of the outrage.
You’re just being argumentative. They may not need “probable cause,” but they do indeed need an excuse. Otherwise the 4th Amendment would have no meaning at all.
Nobody is tying this supposed call to the justification for the beating. They are suggesting that the cops wanted some pretext for being there and rousting Kelly – other than just “he had no shirt on.” So they made a call about a “crime” that wasn’t occurring.
Possibly. But do those goons even need an excuse when it came to a crazy, homeless bum?
“They may not need “probable cause,” but they do indeed need an excuse.”
Not really. They don’t need a call. They don’t need anybody to have observed some infraction. The police can roll up, and search your ass based on nothing more than a hunch that you might be carrying something you shouldn’t, like a gun or drugs, or just up to no good. And yes, Terry vs. Ohio represents a serious departure from the spirit of the 4th Ammendment. Read this short review of the case law here if you are interested:
http://www.essortment.com/review-terry-vs-ohio-case-33208.html
But they have to release you quickly if no evidence of a crime is commited. A prolonged detainment with no probable cause to detain is in itself illegal. They may be able to Terry stop you but if no evidence of a crime presents itself they have to release you…. 20 minutes on a curb was plenty more than they needed to search kelly and his pack… That is probably where things went downhill quick for the cops. They had no reason to detain him any longer. The cop detaining him was probably asking his buddies what to do since the clock was ticking and it was a wide open space with lots of witnesses… This is all speculation but being illegally detained myself once 10 years ago the cop did the same thing, called his buddies and tried find a reason to search me. I was innocent of any wrong doing just in the wrong place at the wrong time. We were on a busy street so people started watching. I refused to go any further with questions and told people watching my name and that I was in good physical shape and they were witnesses if these guys decided to rough me up. A captain showed up and asked me a couple questions, had a pow wow with his cops and proceeded to tell the Sgt at the scene he was way out of line with me…. I was ignorant of the laws at the time and let it go… had a good case with lots of witnesses… thats the day I stopped believing cops were the good guys. The Sgt threatened me with everything from resisting arrest, obstruction to a felony…. and told me he could “take me somewhere and I would not like the outcome” … thugs….
…only partially correct. Read on for more information regarding the “exclusionary rule” of Mapp vs. Ohio in 1961.
Majority opinion
Chief Justice Warren’s opinion for the Court began by reciting first principles. The Fourth Amendment protects “people, not places”, against “unreasonable searches and seizures”. The question the Court confronted was whether “in all the circumstances of this on-the-street encounter”, Terry’s reasonable expectation of privacy had been impermissibly invaded.
The procedure called “stop and frisk” was not uncontroversial. Police argue that they require a certain flexibility in dealing with quickly evolving and potentially dangerous situations that arise during routine patrol of the streets. On the other hand, those suspicious of giving the police broad investigatory power contended that the police should not be able to assert their authority over citizens without some specific justification upon intrusion into protected personal security, coupled with judicial oversight to ensure that the police do not routinely abuse their authority. For the Court, however, the question was not the propriety of the police actions in the abstract but the admissibility of the evidence obtained through that police action. “In our system evidentiary rulings provide the context in which the judicial process of inclusion and exclusion approves some conduct as comporting with constitutional guarantees and disapproves other actions by state agents.” For this purpose the exclusionary rule of Mapp v. Ohio, 367 U.S. 643 (1961), had evolved and been applied against both state and federal agents.
Thus the question was not whether the stop-and-frisk procedure was proper by itself, but rather whether the exclusionary rule was an appropriate deterrent of police misconduct during such encounters.
Proper adjudication of cases in which the exclusionary rule is invoked demands a constant awareness of these limitations. The wholesale harassment by certain elements of the police community, of which minority groups, particularly Negroes, frequently complain, will not be stopped by the exclusion of any evidence from any criminal trial. Yet a rigid and unthinking application of the exclusionary rule, in futile protest against practices which it can never be effectively used to control, may exact a high toll in human injury and frustration of efforts to prevent crime.
— Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 14–15
In view of these concerns, the Court next asked whether it is “always unreasonable for a policeman to seize a person and subject him to a limited search for weapons unless there is probable cause for an arrest.”
[edit] When is a person seized and what constitutes a search?
The Court first had to determine, for purposes of the Fourth Amendment, when is a person “seized” and what constitutes a “search”. The Court rejected the idea that a “stop and frisk” could categorically never be a search or seizure subject to the protection of the Fourth Amendment. Instead, it made room for the idea that some police action short of a traditional arrest could constitute a seizure—that is, “whenever a police officer accosts an individual and restrains his freedom to walk away, he has ‘seized’ that person.” The Court also noted that “… it is nothing less than sheer torture of the English language to suggest that a careful exploration of the outer surfaces of a person’s clothing all over his or her body in an attempt to find weapons is not a ‘search.’ ”
Thus, when the police detective took hold of Terry and patted him down on that Cleveland street, the detective “seized” Terry and subjected him to a “search” within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment. But the Fourth Amendment protects only against unreasonable searches and seizures, so the Court next had to determine whether Terry’s seizure and search were “reasonable”.
[edit] What is reasonable?
The Court assessed the reasonableness of the police activity here by comparing it to activity that would ordinarily require a warrant. “… in justifying the particular intrusion the police officer must be able to point to specific and articulable facts which, taken together with rational inferences from those facts, reasonably warrant the intrusion.” In a situation where the police obtained a warrant, they would have brought these facts and inferences to the attention of a judicial officer before embarking on the actions in question. Post hoc judicial review of police activity is equally facilitated by these facts and inferences.
The Court also emphasized that the standard courts should employ is an objective one. “Would the facts available to the officer at the moment of the seizure or the search warrant a man of reasonable caution in the belief that the action taken was appropriate?” Lesser evidence would mean that the Court would tolerate invasions on the privacy of citizens supported by mere hunches—a result the Court would not tolerate. Moreover,
And simple ” ‘good faith on the part of the arresting officer is not enough.’ … If subjective good faith alone were the test, the protections of the Fourth Amendment would evaporate, and the people would be ‘secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,’ only in the discretion of the police.” — quoting Beck v. Ohio, 379 U.S. 89 (1964)
The reasonableness inquiry takes into account the “nature and extent of the governmental interests involved”, including the general interest in crime prevention, the officer’s specific concern for his own safety, the citizen’s interest in his own privacy and dignity, and the extent to which the particular search in question intruded upon those interests. “Our evaluation of the proper balance that has to be struck in this type of case leads us to conclude that there must be a narrowly drawn authority to permit a reasonable search for weapons for the protection of the police officer, where he has reason to believe that he is dealing with an armed and dangerous individual, regardless of whether he has probable cause to arrest the individual for a crime.”
Even searches that start out as reasonable may “violate the Fourth Amendment by virtue of their intolerable intensity and scope.” Thus, the scope of the search must be justified by the circumstances that led the police to undertake it in the first place.
[edit] The stop and frisk of Terry was reasonable
These principles led the Court to conclude that the evidence found on Terry’s person was properly admitted because the search was reasonable. The detective had observed Terry and his companions acting in a manner he took to be a preface to a stick-up. A reasonable person in the detective’s position would have thought that Terry was armed and thus presented a threat to his safety while he was investigating the suspicious behavior he was observing. The events he had witnessed made it reasonable for him to believe that either Terry or his cohorts were armed. “The record evidences the tempered act of a policeman who in the course of an investigation had to make a quick decision as to how to protect himself and others from possible danger, and took limited steps to do so.”
The police detective here limited his search to the outer surfaces of Terry’s clothing. Thus, the search was reasonably related in scope to the concern for his own safety that justified the stop from the beginning. Accordingly, the Court concluded that the revolver found on Terry’s person was properly admitted into evidence.
[edit] The sole justification for the search is protection of the officer and public
The Ohio Court of Appeals allowed the search, but made it clear that such a search was limited to discovering dangerous weapons that could be used against the officer, as Chief Justice Warren noted:
“In this case, for example, the Ohio Court of Appeals stated that ‘we must be careful to distinguish that the “frisk” authorized herein includes only a “frisk” for a dangerous weapon. It by no means authorizes a search for contraband, evidentiary material, or anything else in the absence of reasonable grounds to arrest. Such a search is controlled by the requirements of the Fourth Amendment, and probable cause is essential.’ ” (392 U.S. 1, at 16, Fn 12, quoting State v. Terry, 5 Ohio App. 2d 122, at 130)
Chief Justice Warren later made it clear that this was also the opinion of the Court:
“The sole justification of the search … is the protection of the police officer and others nearby, and it must therefore be confined in scope to an intrusion reasonably designed to discover guns, knives, clubs, or other hidden instruments for the assault of the police officer.” (392 U.S. 1, at 29)
Even searches that start out as reasonable may “violate the Fourth Amendment by virtue of their intolerable intensity and scope.” Thus, the scope of the search must be justified by the circumstances that led the police to undertake it in the first place.
So kelly had no burglary tools, no stolen property and no witnesses on scene that placed him as a person breaking into cars. 20 minutes on a curb, no drugs, no burglary tools no stolen property (the trash from the lawyer not reported as stolen) so 20 minutes on the curb with no reason to detain is irking the cop sent out to harass him…. explain to me where I am Partially right…. he had committed no crime and was not charged with a crime (5days in the hospital) cops have handcuffed suspects to the hospital beds in other crimes. So where is the probable cause to detain, it would be in the reports submitted BEFORE he was turned of of life support… please show me where I am wrong on detainment….
…And again, I disagree that the call isn’t important. It is, because it shows how deep the corruption is in the FPD. The cops conspired with a local business and coached them to make a false report, so they could have someone, who the business didn’t want around, “removed.” Even though he wasn’t doing anything wrong. And of course that person was later beat to death by the same police.
It fits the description of a conspiracy perfectly. (Not like a JFK type of conspiracy…I mean the legal definition of a conspiracy where a group of people specifically meet and have a discussion beforehand to commit a crime).
Of course, the core issue is that the cops murdered him. They used excessive force and killed him. That is the real issue, true. And even if Kelly Thomas had broken into a car (which we know he didn’t), that wouldn’t matter because NOTHING justifies what the cops did to him. If MY car were broken into or even if it were stolen altogether, I still wouldn’t want the cops to do that. Yes, I would want them to go to jail…but I wouldn’t want them to be killed like this.
But the call is still an important detail because it shows deep corruption in the FPD.
“It fits the description of a conspiracy perfectly. (Not like a JFK type of conspiracy…I mean the legal definition of a conspiracy where a group of people specifically meet and have a discussion beforehand to commit a crime).”
And what would that crime be? Making a false statement to a police dispatcher? No report of a crime was made, so forget filing a false report. The caller likely didn’t speak to a sworn officer, so forget lying to police.
In anycase, who made the call and how has no bearing whatsoever on the case against the officers. As much as those cops probably appreciate the break while this particular sideshow plays out.
“But the call is still an important detail because it shows deep corruption in the FPD.”
What? “Deep corruption?” That downtown businesses can call to have the cops come out to move transients along if they are being a pain and maybe hurting business? That’s your idea of “deep corruption?”
You must lead a very sheltered life.
Post #241 by Corrupt:
Actually I am in whole agreement with your views Corrupt, and was disputing the validity of the blogger before your post who maintained that Kelly Thomas’s further detention was legal based soley on the Terry stop and didn’t take into account the exclusionary rule that you expounded on.
I contacted the office of State of California Attorney General regarding the allowing Officers to review surveillance tapes before writing reports.
If you have questions for the State Attorney General, here’s the link:
http://ag.ca.gov/contact/complaint_form.php?cmplt=PL
The ‘Kelly Supporter’ on this thread earlier stated her freind who works there is the one who called on Kelly based on previous instructions given to her by her superiors and offered to speak to DA but no call from them yet.
Well, she just lost her job thanks to ‘Kelly Supporter’.
How do you know that?
Hmm. Sounds like another possible lawsuit. And while I know the economy is tough and jobs are hard to find, she’s better off not having to work for a person who would make a deal with cops to call in fake crimes just in order to get homeless people moved away from his bar.
CIVITAS: ignorant uneducated people making shallow remarkes in here, or now do we?
Doh
Get over yourself. Who cares.
I get that, just wondering why the superiors arent saying anything to the media and have that persons back?
My guess would be the FPD told them not to speak to the media.
yeah, i would talk anyway-anonymously of course
This post to be talked about on J/K at 6
I don’t really know if my logic holds, but I think I’ve read in several posts that slidebar is frequented by the cops? What if the majority of the FPD KNOW’S who this caller is on a personal level, and have actively threatened this person? Maybe the only “safe” thing he or she can do at the moment is to say, I’ll talk to the DA because the FPD “knows” that the DA won’t persue it?
As much as we encourage this person to be compassionate and to come forward, could they be in real physical danger, or am I over reaching? What are your thoughts?
I agree with you. That is why I think this person should get in touch with a lawyer immediately. The person who makes the most sense is Ron Thomas’s and Vath Mam’s lawyer. But there are other lawyers here in Fullerton who have experience dealing with perjuring Fullerton police officers as well. For example, Vath Mam’s lawyer from the criminal case. Someone needs to get this person in touch with a lawyer NOW. Get a statement out of her as soon as possible.
So, how “bad” is the FPD… really? I’m thinking if they can beat a defenseless homeless man into a coma and untimely death, then they are pretty evil.
In your opinion are they capapable of arresting this person’s relatives? Are they capable (and crazy enough) to break into this person’s home and cause damage or maybe even injury to this person’s pet? I mean, I know I’m being a little extreme, but how can this person be protected from the violence of a police department? Is going to a lawyer really enough protection?
No. I do not think, especially at present with the intense scrutiny they are under that they are capable of anything more than intimidating this witness while questioning her. Of course various trolls may post threatening messages on this or other blogs but I would think that would be the extent of it.
FPD is under a microscope. All eyes are upon them. Any new cases of abuse or intimidation which come to light will just hasten their demise. Their Chief is definitely smart enough to know that. They are trying to place nice at present.
We need to create a humane infrastructure.
Let’s create a 51st state in southern California and adopt the Texas constitution and weave it into our own new state constitution.
Anyone hear the news? Looks like oil on the world market is going to get real lean soon, and local trade is going to be the thing of the future.
“Hold onto your lug nuts, we’re in for an overhaul.”
I have heard rumors that trade, worldwide, may be limited to within a 500 mile radius, do to oil depletion.
Example:
Buy a bidet with your toilet; can you see any toilet paper being produced within a 500 mile radius of L.A. after shipping shuts down?
Urban farming has been thrown around. Farming around existing infrastructures may at least feed us until we get adjusted.
Can anyone see local Gov. preparing for terminal decline of oil production?
We have to rezone, adjust our buildings, and afford these changes, but we still have these transient people leap frogging from one city to the next, beating homeless people for not having a job, eating tax money for their 40 year retirement, Citizens are being forced to keep a dying system in place. It’s an unintended consequence of future shock.
THEY DO KNOW WHO IT IS, I AM SKEPTICAL ABOUT THIS PERSON WHO ALL OF A SUDDEN APPEARED ADMITTING TO BEING THE CALLER. IF IT;S TRUE, THEY HAD BEST NOT COMMIT PERJURY.
-Quote-
Murder is usually easier than perjury.
No one is watching.
-Harvey Specter-
I had a feeling whoever placed the bogus call that resulted in someone’s murder must feel bad. But they have to understand that people want to know the truth and for justice to be served. If they want to clear their conscience they need to come forward. I hope they are going to testify under oath of what they did.
That said, there is no justifying falsely accusing someone of a crime. “Following protocol” is no excuse. They had to know it wasn’t right and should have refused to do it.
“That said, there is no justifying falsely accusing someone of a crime.”
You have a pretty broad view of what exactly constitutes “falsely accusing someone of a crime.” How intellectually honest is it to equate a call to the cops that says “somebody said they saw a transient looking into cars,” which is probably exactly what happened, with falsely accusing a specific someone of a crime? Not very.
The crime here is that multiple police officers beat an all but defenseless, malnourished and mentally ill homeless man to death.
I wish we had a little “like” button on these comments. Maybe a little “thumbs up” symbol.
Yep, I wish we could go to our profile and reference our comments and/or the comments of other bloggers.
While I’m wishing, I wish we could have a time stamp along side the date on each comment.
@Kelly Supporter and everyone else.
The one thing that KS said here that sounds really odd is that no one from the DA’s office has contacted the caller about the initial call.
If a complete investigation is underway, it would be crucial to know who called, when and why.
If on the other hand, the D.A. already knows the basic details and is simply steering this to a conclusion they have pretty much already decided, then not contacting the caller fits.
@Kelly Supporter
Can you tell us why you or your friend hasn’t gotten in touch with Ron Thomas or his lawyer before now?
john and ken will talk about kelly at 6 pm
Thanks for the heads up, here’s the link;
http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/JohnandKen.html?feed=387620&article=7652164
look in the upper left corner for; listen live
APPARENTLY JOHN AND KEN HAVE NOT BEEN PULLED OFF KELLY’S CASE?
So calling the PD and reporting that someone is breaking into cars knowing that it’s not true is not ‘falsely’ accusing someone of a crime? How is it not?
My comment was in response to her friend’s call, not the cops who murdered Kelly. LDO
“So calling the PD and reporting that someone is breaking into cars knowing that it’s not true is not ‘falsely’ accusing someone of a crime? How is it not?”
I said it was not the same as “falsely accusing a ‘specific’ someone of a crime.” And yet the implication in your statement is that Thomas was specifically falsely accused. See Steph D.’s statement below that the caller “made it sound like like Kelly was doing more than what was actually happening.”
Kelly Thomas was not specifically identified to the police, we know this from Kelly Supporter who wrote of her friend: “The caller was not aware who they were calling about.”
I understand that this distinction may be something you aren’t interested in wrapping your head around– you probably want to wrongly imply that a false accusation was made specifically about Kelly Thomas– if so, I apologize for wasting your time.
Chris,
The only way a cop can play games is:
1) you are not informed about the laws,
2) do not have them on tape playing their games.
Great points! Citizens need to arm themselves with a camcorder and knowledge. If you have never seen this presentation by a law professor and a police officer about why you should never talk to police officers, you are setting yourself up for trouble. The video is 40 minutes long but it’s probably the best legal advice you’ll ever receive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Wow, so someone knows the bar owner that made the call. He was told to lie and say someone was breaking in to cars, even though it was just because someone was harrassing customers, making it sound like Kelly was doing more than what was actually happening. How sad that protocol is to lie. I’m sure the bar owner never meant for anything like that to happen so it’s not his fault. Protocol to lie is also the FPD’s fault.
“…making it sound like Kelly was doing more than what was actually happening.”
Umm, no. The call was not made about Thomas specifically. ‘Kelly Supporter’ says of her friend, “The caller was not aware who they were calling about.”
So it just as easily could have been another transient in that area hassling folks in the lot, there is no shortage, and we have heard that Thomas was not in the lot when officers arrived, rather he was said to have been on a bus bench.
In any case, the call just got officers down to the area, they proceeded on their own to question Thomas, and I wonder if the breaking into cars thing even came up. I’m thinking probably not. Reports are that Thomas was a very familiar figure to the cops, they surely knew he was a mentally ill transient, hustling for spare change and cigarettes, not a car burglar.
If no telephone records can be produced by City of Fullerton to establish a ‘threat’ or that a ‘crime’ was being committed or planned by Kelly Thomas, this will appear as incriminating as the fact that Fullerton officers were allowed to view the videotape over and over as they wrote their reports several times. These facts will not look good to an impartial jury and will raise more questions than answers.
Meanwhile, the City and OCDA maintain that the public should not be allowed see the Thomas videotape because the prejudicial value of the content on the tape outweighs the probative value. I say it’s the other way around and the public has a RIGHT to see that unedited tape to ensure that Fullerton’s residents can trust their police officers to not beat them to death in a high pressure situation. Something stinks to high heaven.
The DOJ will go after these 6 scumbag officers for federal civil rights violations; those crimes carry longer prison sentences than State charges. We may see a conviction on 2nd degree murder or aggrevated murder charges (among others: a) violation of the public trust, b) assault under color of authority, c) assault with intent to do great bodily injury.) The party is over FPD.
THEY WILL QUICKLY BURY THIS RIGHT IN OUR FACES. THE CORRUPTION IS POWERFUL. A LOT STRINGS HAVE BEEN PULLED TO SQUASH THIS.
John and Ken have offered to help us collect signatures for the petition. Awesome! Great job on KFI just now, Chris Thompson!
THOSE DISC JOCKEYS NEED TO BE CAREFUL. THE COPS ARE NOT GOING TO LET THEM KEEP THIS CASE IN THE PUBLIC EYE.
O Rly?
trollsack Sidney- whats going to happen to them if they do?
Im not a lawyer either, but Im pretty sure a state govenment agency cant pick and choose what they are going to release if its public records-they can black out names, but I dont think they can stick whatever they want in a desk drawer- sounds illegal
WAKE UP. THEY MURDERED A MAN AND ARE ENJOYING THE SUMMER OFF WITH PAY. THE CHIEF IS OUT ON DISABILITY LAUGHING AT US. IT’S ALL OVER. THE D.A IS WAITINDG UNTIL THE CORONER DESTROYS THE EVIDENCE.
Just listened to John and Ken;
Thanks for speaking up Chris Thompson!
Agreed 440 Dodge, 100%. I have always been confident with the civil rights violation end of this. (Nice job everyone ignoring the troll)
Their vacation won’t last forever. Please stop SCREAMING. It’s hard on the eyes 😉
440 Dodge: “Something stinks to high heaven.”
It sure as hell does and they are having a hard time masking it this time.
The person that called in the phony report is just as guilty as the FPD 6 and deserves to be prosecuted. Where is the Grand Jury Inquiry? Force the FPD 6 to testify before the Grand Jury.
#229 by Email The Man on September 1, 2011
I contacted the office of State of California Attorney General regarding the allowing Officers to review surveillance tapes before writing reports.
If you have questions for the State Attorney General, here’s the link:
http://ag.ca.gov/contact/complaint_form.php?cmplt=PL
While you’re at it, ask if a cop should read handwritten notes prior to typing her report? All you smarties know everything because you watched a cop show on tv once…or weekly or you started an academy and were told to find another line of work.
Should they be allowed to collaborate, especially after a violent beat down?
why didnt the caller resist when asked to make a phony call to the police about another human being? now that im thinking about it-That’s like your boss telling you to lie for them-and you do it.
why would that person be surprised that something bad could happen?
I read through 263 freaking posts before I realized nobody read the sentence that states “These documents have been redacted pursuant to Government Code 6254 (f), Government Code 6255, Evidence Code section 1040…
I’m sorry to say but if there was a call it was removed as required by law… and please don’t jump down my throat for pointing this out…I am all for getting justice for kelly and I have been at every rally for the past 4 weeks, but a little reading and research would be helpful before you jump to conclusions…
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/GOV/1/1/d7/3.5/1/s6254
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/GOV/1/1/d7/3.5/1/s6255
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/EVID/1/d8/4/9/s1040
Redactions are in black. There were no phone calls redacted.
If calls were omitted, that should have been noted in order to comply with the public records act.
Oppps that should have read michael.gennaco@oirgroup.com not org/
Do Fullerton cops get city cell phones to use? if they do we need a subpoena for those phone call records!
Fullerton Lover,
I have seen that video many times. The advise is great.
It is getting to the point that I am advising people to carry a penal code book with them, so if confronted, they can produce it and ask the officer to point out said crime.
Remember one thing if nothing else; knowledge is power, and if you know some of the laws, especially elements of Probable Cause/ Reasonable Suspicion, you are way ahead of the game in self protection of those who would tarnish the badge.
Need a job 9c1copcar? Fullerton may need a new police chief soon!
9C1 ARE SO FED UP WITH POLICE MISCONDUCT. CAN’T TELL YA HOW MUCH WE HATE IT.
9c1-where do you get one of thos penal code books?
You can get them from any bookstore or uniform/supplies store, not 9c-1, but a response.
That’s retarded. I’m sorry, but you pull that move and the cop’s probably gonna’ be more inclined to go FPD on you. The reality is, the cops can use just about any pretext to stop or question you. The case that established the “reasonable suspicion” rule was where the cops admitted they stopped a car completely at random. So now they need only to cite any minor infraction. In your car, that is any infraction of the vehicle code. No front license plate. Dirt on your license plate. Object hanging from rearview mirror. Swerved a lane. Anything. Same goes for a stop in the streets. They need only to point to anything that gave them reason to believe that a crime was afoot or that your actions are suspicious. It is well known that any pretext will suffice. You getting huffy and puffy about it and pulling out your penal code book will do nothing to stop them from questioning or detaining you. In fact, it would likely guarantee your arrest or worse. They’ll goad you into getting yourself arrested and suddenly you will find yourself getting manhandled because just about anything you do can be construed as resisting. And guess what? Cops hate lawyers plenty. But you know who they hate even more? Morons who think that they know the law and who will holler about knowing their rights. The reality is that any issues with an unlawful stop or detention or search will be addressed by a trier of fact at court. The cops aren’t the trier of fact. That’s one of the reasons why your Miranda right to remain silent is also a really good idea. None of the distinctions about reasonable suspicion or probable cause is going to stop the cops from arresting you, claiming that you resisted and giving you a tune up before throwing your ass in jail. Sure, the charge might not stick. But best of luck suing the cops for what they did. They are protected by a bunch of immunities for the actions they take under the color of law. Plus, it is going to be your word against theirs. I agree — it isn’t right. I agree that they need to be kept in check. I agree that this incident in particular is the kind of thing that might finally effect change. But you carrying around a penal code book and popping off to cops is a pretty foolish idea. But hey, if you wanna try it, be my guest. Just make sure you have a buddy following you around with a video camera so that you can be a Youtube sensation when the cops beat you senseless.
Let’s scrutinize those auto burg reports. What I got from them is: one vehicle experience a problem between 7-02 and 7-05. It was not reported until 7-5.
The other two incidents appear to have occurred on the same day, involving the theft of very expensive catalytic converters. They are stolen for the rare metals that they contain.
Stealing these converters require tools, like a screw driver, a sawzall. Some converters are welded on. Thieves are selective about the year and model car they choose to steal from.
It also appears that the great surveillance cameras could not capture these thefts. they did not actually involve entry in to a vehicle for property in them.
Kelly Thomas was never a suspect in any one of these cases, nor, was he captured on surveillance committing any crimes.
Therefore, no photo of Kelly committing crimes in the area, knowing tools are required to remove converters, if there was a property/evidence report taken of Kelly’s property, were any tools associated with these crimes in his back pack?
Was Kelly ever observed to remove converters from cars? These kinds of crimes are usually committed by multiple players, so, was Kelly working with someone? If so, who?
you can go on line to find out about penal and vehicle code sections. FINDLAW, LEXUS AND NOLO PRESS ARE RESOURCES TO LOOK UP CASE LAW AS WELL.
OR, YOU CAN GO TO A COLLEGE OR OTHER BOOKSTORE TO PURCHASE THEM.
There are several things that trouble me in this case, one of which is the number of officers who acted in concert with each other in the violence.
Each one of us is different in finger prints, DNA, etc. Same goes for what each person will tolerate. If two officers are working together and one “loses it”, usually the other officer will pull his partner off of the individual. It is a system that works fairly well. What is extremely troubling to me is, 6 officers were on the scene, and NOT ONE had the BALLS or the DECENCY to intervene and bring this injustice to a HALT.
The other problem I have with this is the brASS, (capitalized intentionally). Whether it is a large or small dept., all brass know the heavies, and will do just about anything to cover-up their behavior/actions. It is pervasive with all departments. As long as citizens are uninformed/not wanting to get involved/let the other guy take the heat, etc., these rogues will execute their dirty deeds amongst the citizenry. It may be Kelly Thomas today, but never fall prey to the false premise that because you are not homeless and clean shaven, that it will never happen to you or one of your family members.
Respectfully Submitted
Everything you said is accurate..
9c1copcar on September 1, 2011
What is extremely troubling to me is, 6 officers were on the scene, and NOT ONE had the BALLS or the DECENCY to intervene and bring this injustice to a HALT.
The more you think about it the more troubling it becomes.
JT,
Thank you for the nice comments. I would love to take command of the dept. I would review all officer records, and while I would not want to handcap them in the performance of their jobs, I would make it very clear that any physical contact with any individuals will use only that force necessary to effect their control and arrest.
The next step in my agenda would be a test for anabolic steroids. These drugs are used by more officers than preciously thought. These throw off the hormone balance in the body, and make that individual emotionally unstable to an extreme. Many years ago, I took steroids before joining the dept. I took them for 3 months, then decided they were not for me. They made it impossible for me to live my life in a normal way. Short tempers, extreme feeling of euphoria, etc,. Couple that with a badge and a gun, and you have an uncontrolled, un-caged animal on the streets.
Those are just a few of the many reforms I would put forth in my re-vamp of the dept.
Respectfully Submitted.
who gets to determine if something is to be held out or omitted from view? I would think only a judge could determine that not the Police department-but i dont know
A JUDGE WILL USUALLY DETERMINE WHAT IS ADMISSABLE, BUT, GENERALLY BOTH SIDES PLAY GAMES WITH DISCOVERY UNTIL THEY PISS THE JUDGE OFF.
not whats admissable, what can be omitted from a public record and what cant
MERIJOE, PAY ATTENTION, IT IS NOT ADMISSABLE UNLESS A JUDGE APPROVES OF IT.
ok Mr Capitalize-PAY ATTENTION, Im asking a damn question you moron -and your answer still doesnt make sense-so sshhh, and careful….if you dont want to answer my qestion then dont
So, let me say it again,
Can someone other than an arrogant. know it all tell me who decides from a public record, what can be OMITTED and what cant?
Dont you get a judge to decide if something should be omitted in the case of a public record? not the other way around in the case of a public record
WHAT KINDS OF LEGAL ISSUES ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? RECORDS ARE USUALLY PUBLIC AFTER A CASE IS OVER. NOTHING CAN BE REDACTED OR DELETED UNLESS A JUDGE SAYS SO.
SOME RECORDS GET SEALED FOREVER.
WHEN ARE THESE FOOLS GOING TO PAY !!!!! IT’S BEEN TWO MONTHS NOW !!!!!!!! I THINK IT’S TIME TO CHARGE THE FORT !!!!
fedupwithmorons just loves to hear himself type.
Don’t let 9c1copcar fool you. He is not a cop. He would like you to think he’s a cop with that bullshit lingo, but it sounds like he was one of those wannabe academy washouts who couldn’t hack it so now he pretends to be in front of the computer.
A “real” cop knows not to pass judgement when you weren’t there and all FACTS aren’t known.
Any reasonable person, especially a cop, knows that speculation isn’t worth anything unless you can back it up with FACTS, not just more speculation and he said she said crap.
It seems like almost everyone posting has an OPINION, which is fine, but not many can back it up with facts.
This missing phone call article is worthless.
Tony got EXACTLY what he asked for which was a copy of the POLICE REPORTS FOR CAR BURGLARIES in the area.
Looks like another Tony tactic to ’round up the troops and show them the PD is corrupt because the report he ordered did not include “the phone call”.
You didn’t get that report because you didn’t ask for that one.
–“Don’t let 9c1copcar fool you. He is not a cop”–
I eagerly await your proof. Git ‘im!!!! After all, I know you wouldn’t base this statement on he said she said crap, nor would you base this on passing judgement without knowing all the FACTS. Certainly not. I can tell by your grammar and sentence structure that you are a fine, honest, upstanding citizen in support of all real truth and justice, and any speculation you might opine must be absolute truth.
–“A “real” cop knows not to pass judgement when you weren’t there and all FACTS aren’t known.”–
Do “real” cops bash someone’s head in when all the facts aren’t known? Were the cops there when Kelly Thomas was “breaking into cars”?
–“Any reasonable person, especially a cop“–
Awe, I think it’s cute that you think cops are “especially” “reasonable persons”. They are no doubt more reasonable than the rest of us non-cops. We certainly can’t comprehend what it’s like to be reasonable…you know, burdened with all our high school, undergraduate, and master’s degrees. The vast majority of us have never even taken (much less passed) the GED test, so what the hell do we know about being reasonable? Yeah… you’re adorable.
–“…knows that speculation isn’t worth anything unless you can back it up with FACTS, not just more speculation and he said she said crap.”–
It’s the he said she said crap that caused the police to come to the scene in the first place, isn’t it? Someone “said” that there were car break-ins right? Yet according to reports, NO cars were broken into by Kelly Thomas. Despite this, the cops still beat/Tazed him, all because of the initial reported car break-ins. How does this make you feel that somebody was killed most likely because of the type of thinking you just spent a few hundred words denouncing?
Gotufooled,
I will be there at the protest Saturday. Got the BALLS to come up to me and ask to see my retired badge? I will be the one in the Marine Corp hat and shirt/urban camo pants. I think NOT.
I won’t be able to see you if your wearing camo. Face paint too?
Surely someone as intelligent as you could see through such camouflage, no? You are such a smart person that has got me fooled, you will no doubt be able to confront this non-former-cop and his non-former-copness. I look forward to seeing you uncover this fraudulent person. The way you spew nothing but justice, truth, and compassion makes me think you are like Captain America. I wish I were like you.
Amazing how disrespectful you are to a retired police officer. If you are police yourself, which I doubt, please understand that we find your attitude unsuitable for doing the job that we pay you for. We want respectful, calm, professionals “serving and protecting” us all in Fullerton. Oh, including the homeless.
This is great news, I, nor anyone I know will walk into that Slidebar ever. What is pissing me off are the assholes on the Facebook sites who are pathetically uneducated, airheads, who like to stir up shit.
I know what you mean
Of course you do because you have got me fooled. You have a hyper-developed sense of justice, truth, and righteousness that the rest of us all envy. If only I could be like you and get some other people fooled, then my ego could get bigger too and compensate for the same shortcomings that you compensate for.
Yup.
Great comment. I like the depth and intelligence in your comment that shines through like a beacon of righteous justice. I especially like the part where you said “Yup.” It was both poignant and devastating to all whom oppose you.
As your eternal supporter, I thank you for your contribution to society, which no doubt will be enshrined amongst the greatest quotes of our century.
Did I hit a nerve? You must be one of the owners or admins of a Kelly Thomas Facebook group; you’re just a wee bit defensive. Sorry, I’m completely exhausted tonight and could only muster up a ‘yup’ to show my displeasure at the childish squabbling going on over there in Facebookland.
No, you most certainly did not hit a nerve. Had you read my comment, you would have seen that I like your depth, intelligence, and contribution to society. As I said, I especially like the part where you said “Yup”. The capitalization of the “Y” was my favorite part, followed closely by the period at the end of the word.
…sarcasm is the lowest form of witticism.
Sarcasm is great, and so much fun, keep the dummies wondering!
Video of ‘mentally ill’ man being Tasered by police posted on internet
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
Last updated at 6:57 AM on 2nd September 2011
Comments (3)
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A police officer was caught on tape Tasering an apparently mentally ill man showing no signs of resistance.
The video – which was posted on Youtube – shows Robert Denoyelles standing outside a Golden Corral restaurant in Prescott, Texas with his arms in the air.
Filmed from inside the restaurant, the officer can be seen pointing the Taser at Mr Denoyelles before stepping back and firing the weapon.
Scroll down for video
Hands up: Mr Denoyelles is seen here with his hands in the air, as the officer, standing behind a window sticker, points the Taser
… The officer then steps back and fires the weapon
Speaking to Fox News, Mr Denoyelles’ wife Kaite said: ‘I thought they had no reason to do it, it was wrong,’ says wife Katie Denoyelles.
‘He’s kind of handicapped… I know lately he’s been disoriented.’
According to the officer involved, Mr Denoyelles was asked several times to turn around with his hands in the air before being shot.
A police report states Mr Denoyelles kept referring to three different personalities after his arrest.
At one point he even asked who the charges were for.
He was originally taken in for resisting arrest, but the charge has since been dropped to disorderly conduct.
… the officer then proceeds to arrest Mr Denoyelles
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Here’s what readers have had to say so far. Why not add your thoughts below, or debate this issue live on our message boards.
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I wonder when Americans will wake up and realise they live in a police state.
– Sceptic, Spain, 02/9/2011 11:38
Click to rate Rating 31 Report abuse
You got it right “merijoe” 🙂
I think we may know each other 😉
Then go blow each other on another blog, “Lynchfools”!!!
I take that back Lynchmob! I thought you and ‘gotnoonefooled’ were buds. My misread, sorry.
I knew it! This was my question from the gate, thankfully it has finally been answered. I knew those rotten cps were lying through their teeth and there was no call.
Anytime cops screw up they make up some reason for the stop. These maniacs targeted that poor guy for some sick reason which means possible/likely premeditation
YOU are a HUGE breath of fresh air to this place—Respectfully, Thank You!
merijoe, your stupid question has been asked and answered you illiterate!
Gotufooled,
I am not going to get into a pissing match here, where the real focus should be on Kelly and what was perpetrated. For your info, I WAS a cop, but railed against the heavies in the dept. I would NOT work with them when partnered. I felt I would hang for their actions, and thus, informed the Watch Sgt. to re-assign me. Let’s be friends, and work together to bring justice to this case. Fair enough?
Question, 9c1.
What, in your professional opinion, is the average state of mind in law enforcement regarding the Kelly Thomas killing?
My girlfriend’s father is a retired Sheriff’s Deputy. I’m old, he’s older — but I’m here to tell you that this guy is true blue, man. He’s the guy you want as your next door neighbor. Seriously. He would move heaven to save you.
True blue.
I understand that cops are nasty and dangerous these days. I’m not yet willing to accept the meme that all of them are rotten.
My question to you 9c1, is how are the day-to-day policemen and women dealing with the Kelly Thomas case?
See you Saturday. I want to drive up there.
Justice for Kelly.
I IS BECOMING A LYNCH MOB,
Thank you for the very kind words sir!!
The call is important because of being one of the puzzle pieces. It establishes how it all started. I may be paranoid, but, I am highly suspicious of this caller, until they have been vetted!
just wondering, was this post confirmed or not??
i saw no other response from it..
#244 by Anonymous on September 1, 2011
Well, she just lost her job thanks to ‘Kelly Supporter’.
#245 by Through different eyes on September 1, 2011
How do you know that?
Yes, still waiting on that response as well. I did not know if Anonymous was speculating of what “might” happen or if he/she actually knew something.
Of course there was no call, it hasn’t even been talked about NOR surfaced better yet, since the starting gate FFS!
dunno, ‘kelly supporter’ seemed pretty convincing to me
Although this is a different topic, but still case related, I was wondering if anyone in fpd happened to capture Cincinelli boasting about the beating (as the informant on KFI stated) on their DAR recorders. I think we’ll be hearing and possibly seeing something revealing and more damaging to FPD very soon.
That is an excellent question wrong guy!
BINGO
gotu and creepy brainless merijoe,, I am not a dude, a guy. I am female.
9c1 is a retired LASD deputy who worked transportation and Court Services.
Gotu you are so screwed up in your coconut it isn’t funny. What makes you think a fellow cop has to think as you do?
I was thinking people on this blog could help assemble care packages for the Fullerton 6 once they have been sentenced to Folsom or San Quentin. I think the care package should provide: crotchless thong underwear, KY jelly, soap on a rope, sand, vaseline, ALTOIDS, Depends for incontinence, a DRILL-Do and an anal router rooter. Some stuff can be homemade with drills you don’t need anymore. So far, we only need 6 of these packages. Oh, we will probably need to include instruction manuals for the “Bubba-fication” of the Fullerton 6!
bwaaaahahaahhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaa!
“Kelly Supporter’…please stop tweaking, u have no idea what is going on. I think your misdirected anger is being totally misplaced.
-M.A. MFT. PsyD
I’m so happy to hear such a well educated person speak up! Finally!!!
Misdirected anger being misplaced!!! Eff-yeah!!! That totally makes sense and sounds like wisdom from a PsyD type education!!! Eff-yes!!!
People who talk about what friends tell them MUST, by definition, be tweaking. Great call, dude! You nailed it with your clinical diagnosis of tweaking.
This person who tells us what their friend says has NO idea what is going on, according to this M.A. MFT. PsyD. Case closed, your superior shrink has spoken!!!11one
your post here shows your class, intellect, tact, and mentality….LOW close to NADA. Sad.
Wrong as with most criminals, they return to the scene of the crime. Cyclops was heard in the cop locker room to brag. Cyclops not being the brightest bulb in the package of human lightbulbs will brag about it again and it will be to the wrong person!
eat me and STFU *glock loaded*
Hey Lychmob, easy, didn’t you see my apology above? I didn’t have my glasses on and misread your post, thinkin’ that you you and gotu were buds. Major insult I know, but I delete that. Sorry.
I’ll get in a REAL good one for a real troll later.
itssad and your opine is worthless than nothing!
BRAVO once more Fedupw/morons!!! Don’t forget the Rectum-spreader so Bubba don’t have too tight of a fit.
why are you all attacking each other???
the namecalling and criitcism is not productive
aren’t we all here for the same thing???
fed up.. you are getting abit too weird..
i am starting to skip over your posts..
everyone just cool off and stop lashing out at each other..
for kellys sake
wrong yahooo ur here!
and i suspect lynchmob and gotufooled are trolls with a new angle on trying to divide us..
same ones, new names.. running scared with new tactics
It seems reality has resurrected his persona as another whackjob name!
I agree. If you had to guess who else do you think “lynch mob” is…?
Yeah, I am and I’m just getting started.
Wrong I am open as to suggestions as to what should go in the Fullerton 6 bubbafication packages. Spreaders great idea!
They are trolls wrong, as soon as I posted the care package post, i was attacked. i think it’s a great idea to send these guys off to prison in grand style!
Not to toot my horn, but in that post above where I mentioned something about somone at FPD catching that Steroid-Injected One-Eyed Ape Cincinelli bragging about the beating in the locker room, on their DAR recorder; that’d be a Slam Dunk Guilty verdict. “Bailiff, take him away, wack his pp and send him to the Electric Chair!!!”
Just thinkin’
Had an idea. What say we talk to the mayor and ask him if he has any of those speculums they use for female pelvic exams lying around. Think they would spread far and near? lol
Damn, there I went wiht that name calling again……How cool was that?
Yeah Fedup, he’d be the one to ask.
Still ya have to develop a stronger spine. Wrong and I are attempting some levity here and to throw the trolls for a loop. Come play with us, it’s fun!
Wrong Guy,
You are showing your age with that Cheech and Chong bailiff thing. I am old also, and laughed at that.
Yes, chime in folks, please. It seems that whenever I appear and blast a troll, things get quiet. Hope I didn’t insult any normal, justice seeking folks at anytime.
9c1?? question, since you are an ex officer..
do the depts have any kind of ombudsman that good cops can report bad things anonomously??
SDLocal,
I will be very honored to make your aquaintance ths Saturday. As for law enforcement, although I have not talked to any of my former deputy friends, I am sure they are very tight-lipped about this case. Each has their own opinion about the details, and I am sure there are some that will see nothing wrong in what was perpetrated. My guess would be that among those who follow the laws of the land along with the policies and procedures of their dept’s, will see this behavior as a huge stain on law enforcement in general.
I remember dealing with the Rodney King incident and following riots. Each of us had our opinions as to the actions of all that night.
sorry, but i am not sdlocal..
what i meant, is there an outside source that can allow officers to be whistleblowers anonymously,
so that investigations can catch the rogue cops..
Glad ya got that Cheech & Chong ref. 9c1. I’ll see you Saturday as well.. I’ll tell you what I look like when I meet you.
I want to meet you two on saturday, I have an idea. hold
Merijoe keep your retarded ideas to yourself, you won’t look like a dolt!
and also?? are police officers subject to random drug tests??
i am very curious..
thanks
STILL LOVE FULLERTON,
Yes they do. Most go to the watch commander and report what they saw. Once an alligation has been leveled against any personnel, there will be an investigation. Whoever saw what, will eventually be brought forth during said investigation process. No anonymous informants will be tolerated. Once you are found to be a “RAT’, you will be subject to OUTCAST, trader retribution. Just a fact of life.
I was an outcast by some because I railed at the misuse and abuse of the badge.
Wow, you must have been a very strong person to stand up against what you thought was wrong even at the expense of being an outcast to some. Rare indeed! Most people don’t want to create waves and just go along with the flow.
All depts random drug test their personnel. LASD is no exception. What I would love to see is testing for anabolic steroids. These drugs make a person, a dept’s absolute nightmare.
That shows how much you really know. Police depts don’t randomly drug test and they can’t randomly drug test. Now I really wonder what you actually know or did in your life.
STILL LOVE FULLERTON,
Internal Afairs will also take anonymous info. If they feel it has merit, they will do the investigating without involving said informant, however, the proof better be in the pudding so-to-speak, as said officer, with evidence of wrong-doing presented to him/her, will usually resign rather than risk trial.
thank you !!
seems like if there was an outside source for reporting wrong doings, it could kill the code of silence.. too bad
and i would think the drug testing would include steroids automatically, since the effects can really be destructive… to all involved
thank you again..
i’m sorry to hear you were outcast…
Ana,
I did not mind being such. I always looked upon the badge as TRUST. Those who scorned me looked upon it as POWER. Very different mentality.
This ^
Every Fullerton Cop should be forced to recite this 100 times when they go in to work each morning:
This Badge means Trust. It does not mean Power.
STILL LOVE FULLERTON,
No need to say sorry. I was proud to serve. I guess it was the little kid in me that always knew that law enforcement was for me, and how much I revered those officers who came and visited us in elementary school.
Got to say 9c1, all of your posts have been absolute gems. Loved what you stated above about viewing the badge as Trust as opposed to Power.
It just tears me apart to visualize Fullerton Chief of Cops, Andrew Goodrich, unions, politicans, councils and its cronies in handcuffs at federal trials.
It would be Ultimate Justice for the country to see all of the above in cuffs and Federal trials, but mostly to see them all behind bars.
It just tears us apart to visualize these Fullerton cops and officials in handcuffs at Fed trials.
That reminds me of my 7th grade year in junior H.S. when our local sheriff’s department’s rock and roll band played for us. It was so awsome to see these men in uniform playing BTO, Aerosmith and some other great bands of the 70s. However, fast forward about 30 years later and this same department ‘rear-ended’ me (metaphorically speaking) into an arrest and cover up. Shows you how the times have changes within law enforcement agencies.
#288 by merijoe on September 1, 2011
why didnt the caller resist when asked to make a phony call to the police about another human being? now that im thinking about it-That’s like your boss telling you to lie for them-and you do it.
why would that person be surprised that something bad could happen?
That’s what I’ve bee saying home girl…Don’t call the Pigs never ever ever. Snitches get Stitches… If you got a beef take care of it yourself..If you can’t, pay someone to take care of it for you. Fuck the pigs..aint no justice, Fuck the pigs. Don’t be a pussy
Fullerton,
Thank you for the kind words. Next order of business is to change ALL of the city council. Make them realize that the power resides in those citizens as opposed to these dummies in their seats.
Wrong Guy,
If you are at the protest tomorrow, Fed Up and I would love to hear your story.
Yes, I’ll be there. I look forward to sharing with you what happened. Lots of detail, lots of lies from upper ranks, etc. If I have an extra copy I’ll bring in the La MIrada Tribune from 2000 that published the ‘truth’, my version.
A word of warning these cops are not offically off the hook yet. If you go public with your claim wear a mask. I’m serious.
No. Why sould we be scared. We pay their salaries. They should be scared of us. They mess with the citizenry their department goes kaput, they all get fired or transfer out and we contract OCSD. Win Win. Don’t be afraid of FPD. Let them know we watch their every move.
Keep dreaming. You have no pull. Wake up.
We’ll see when the Feds tear FPD apart, won’t we.
Be real. they own the corrupt politicians.
#301 by 9c1copcar on September 1, 2011
There are several things that trouble me in this case, one of which is the number of officers who acted in concert with each other in the violence.
Each one of us is different in finger prints, DNA, etc. Same goes for what each person will tolerate. If two officers are working together and one “loses it”, usually the other officer will pull his partner off of the individual. It is a system that works fairly well. What is extremely troubling to me is, 6 officers were on the scene, and NOT ONE had the BALLS or the DECENCY to intervene and bring this injustice to a HALT.
The other problem I have with this is the brASS, (capitalized intentionally). Whether it is a large or small dept., all brass know the heavies, and will do just about anything to cover-up their behavior/actions. It is pervasive with all departments. As long as citizens are uninformed/not wanting to get involved/let the other guy take the heat, etc., these rogues will execute their dirty deeds amongst the citizenry. It may be Kelly Thomas today, but never fall prey to the false premise that because you are not homeless and clean shaven, that it will never happen to you or one of your family members.
Respectfully Submitted
You don’t understand because you don’t know the facts of this incident….What kind of bus did you drive when transporting prisoners for LA county? I will bet my left nut you never worked any type of investigation in your life,
Yo, pathetic jackass. 9c1 has investigated cases, as well as I have. I have investigated homicides by cop, credit card fraud, burglary, child abuse and many more. In fact, I had 8 felony arrests in one month, and I didn’t have to beat or kill anyone to get those stats. Bet you patrol jockeys dont investigate much beyond which way toilet paper comes off a roll! Your police reports suck! So much for the shyster police academy where they waste time and our tax dollars teaching cops to be touchy freely with gay asses!
I understand the facts. My “brag book” would make you pussies weep!
Why don’t you investigate how to get those poop balls out of your asscrack? They must itch you something terrible. Once you clean up that mess you might find yourself in a better temperament!
Remember Officer Daniel Harless, the Canton, Ohio, police officer who was caught on video threatening to kill citizens? Well, he’s back in a new video that some say corroborates the notion that he has abused his power and built a track record of violent threats.
Back in July, The Blaze brought you the first disturbing video. It wasn’t long before a second clip featuring Harless’ death threats on citizens emerged. In the latter footage, he purportedly yelled, “I’ll kill every one of you motherfu**ers!” Below, you can watch this older video that The Blaze featured earlier this summer as a reminder of just how intense his threats were (warning: language):
Now, after an anonymous source tipped off the Canton police chief, a third offsetting video has been made public. Newsnet5.com frames the events that occur in the clip as follows:
Officer Daniel Harless and his partner pull a car over for no apparent reason. After interrogating the passengers inside about their activities, you hear Harless threaten one passenger.
A police officer’s voice (it appears to be Harless’) can be heard saying, “If you scratch you balls wrong, I’m going to pull my gun and I am going to shoot you.” Below, watch the recently-released dashboard video (the death threat can be heard around 4:50):
WEWS-TV has a full report on this new threatening video:
As it turns out, Harless is no stranger to internal affairs investigations. He’s apparently been cleared of 18 of them since 2001. But despite these issues, Chief Dean McKimm has claimed that “there was no evidence Harless was a problem.”
In addition to angry responses from concerned citizens, William E. Bartlett, the man who was threatened in the first video, set off an internal investigation when he filed a formal complaint against Harless.
As a result, internal affairs has found the Canton cop guilty of breaking three rules: deportment, cooperation with the public and treatment of individuals in custody. Here are some highlights from the internal affairs report, as published by CantonRep.com:
“Officer Harless’ conduct … has brought disrepute upon himself and the Canton Police Department.”
“The volatile attitude that Officer Harless displays (during the traffic top) … has gained negative national media attention towards these officers and the Canton Police Department.”
“The Canton Police Department’s operation and efficiency has been impaired due to negative phone calls and emails that have been fielded by its members (regarding the case).”
This report, which is clearly unfavorable to Harless, has been given to Safety Director Thomas Ream. A disciplinary hearing is set for September 7 during which the controversial police officer’s fate will be decided. His punishment could range from 30 days off the job to being fired.
Back in June, Harless was put on administrative leave, but has now begun using his sick days. In either event, he will continue to receive pay until a decision regarding punishment is made.
(h/t Pixiq.com)
Harless will be running the Fullerton police dept. Harless took a few sick days off in order to come here for an interview.
Twenty complaints and he’s still in uniform carrying a weapon. Internal affairs in that town must be modeled after Fullerton.
You’d think after the first 10, they’d start getting the hint.
Fedup-we are fighting the same side-lets start over- hope to see you tomorrow
Injustice Everywhere
National Police Misconduct NewsFeed Daily Recap 09-01-11
Posted: 02 Sep 2011 01:26 AM PDT
Here are the 29 reports of police misconduct tracked in our National Police Misconduct News Feed for this Thursday, September 1, 2011:
3 San Bernardino Co CA deputies sued alleging 5 taser cartridges were used for over 10mins when a man was tasered to death for honking at cop [3] on.msnbc.com/p9zyNj
Aransas Pass TX cops say dashcam wasn’t working when bicyclist was allegedly hit by cruiser then badly beaten [4] bit.ly/qYyivo
Wyoming settles suit for $500k to family of man who died when while being restrained by troopers after crash [0] bit.ly/r2inWD
Russell Co AL deputy found guilty of civil rights violation for brutally beating man on ground while cuffed [0] bit.ly/oix1fE
Altoona PA judge finds cops had no cause to arrest man peppersprayed & injured during arrest for resisting arrest [3] http://bit.ly/nHkwPm
Arlington TX settles suit for $25k to man tasered 2x by cop even as witnesses told him it was wrong man (update) [3] bit.ly/q9JU3g
12+ Chicago IL cops sued by brothers shown in video being attacked by cops inside store where they work [3] bit.ly/qIFhvv
Washington DC cop accused of shooting woman’s dog after pointing gun at them then refusing to give badge number [1] wj.la/qtEEBN
Jackson Co MO lawsuit by woman raped by deputy at age 15 alleges dept failed to stop pattern of sexual misconduct [3] bit.ly/p1623Q
Texas Police Chief organization hacks by Anonymous reveal racist & homophobic emails by police chiefs [0] gizmo.do/mYin7p
Anniston AL police accused of pattern of racism by cop saying he got fed up & resigned, FBI probe requested [2] bit.ly/pby3tF
New York NY police sued by cop alleging he was demoted for reporting supervisor for racist language & using quotas [4] nydn.us/pdlDzp
King NC cop subject of state investigation but officials refuse to say why after secret city council meeting [2] bit.ly/n6rfit
Sandusky OH cop on leave while subject of unspecified investigation into actions during dispute between biker clubs [2] bit.ly/o18UAv
North Providence RI police chief arested for larceny on allegations he stole $720 from motorist’s purse after chase [0] bit.ly/pXyIxN
Manistee MI cop subject of warrant for allegedly stealing money from someone’s wallet & embezzling money from dept [0] bit.ly/pkzLG6
Winnipeg MB police sued by transgendered woman claiming cops mocked her during mistaken ID arrest [1] bit.ly/pGrdMO
US Border Patrol sued by agent claiming he was retaliated against for reporting illegal search of car by supervisors [3] bit.ly/qkwwQ2
Youngstown OH cop disciplined for trying to disable suspect by shooting at his foot instead of shooting to kill [0] bit.ly/pOT2Ht
Morton VA police sgt pleads guilty to domestic battery, sentenced to fine & forbidden to have firearm, ending career [0] bit.ly/qF9kJ8
Mason City IA cop blaming sex harassment & retaliation for her firing now says 2 cops implicated in abduction case [3] bit.ly/oUt3rJ
Williamson Co IL deputy arrested of allegedly taking pot from task force seizures and giving it to others to sell [0] bit.ly/mVB6k2
Mesa AZ cop & wife plead guilty to solicitation to commit mortgage fraud by lying to get loan modification [0] bit.ly/mVS0NK
Daytona Beach FL cop arrested on felony false statement & misuse of personal info for renewing tags under ex’s name [0] thesent.nl/ohRAJN
Ft Lauderdale FL cop on leave while investigated for perjuring himself after report & testimony contradicted by GPS [0] bit.ly/psktap
St Louis Co MO police say no policy against cops drinking & driving patrol cars after man films cop doing just that [3] bit.ly/owXfx1
Jacksonville FL cop charged w/DUI after investigation into head-on crash between his cruiser and another car [0] bit.ly/nNaTBW
Snohomish Co Regional Drug & Gang Task Force leader suspended 6 days after convicted on DUI charge in Arizona [1] bit.ly/nfnkLK
Cliffside Park NJ cop suspended after arrested on shoplifting charge in unspecified incident, makes $107k/yr [1] bit.ly/pngYNb
That’s it for today, stay safe out there.
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updated 9/1/2011 9:05:46 PM ET
Family sues police over California Taser death
Reuters
LOS ANGELES — The parents of a Southern California man who accuse police of killing their son with a Taser after he honked at a patrol car have sued the sheriff’s department and county.
The suit accuses the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department, the county of San Bernardino and three deputies of assault and battery as well as negligence in the death of Allen Kephart, 43.
Kephart was driving in Rimforest, 60 miles northeast of Los Angeles, in May when he honked at a patrol vehicle that turned in front of him, according to the lawsuit filed on Tuesday in San Bernardino Superior Court.
Click here!
The sheriff’s deputy then circled his patrol car back behind Kephart’s vehicle and pulled him over at a nearby gas station, the lawsuit said.
The deputy ordered Kephart out of his car at gunpoint, forced him to the ground, and was joined by a sergeant and another deputy, the lawsuit said.
The three officers used their electroshock Taser weapons on Kephart “without provocation or justification” for about 10 minutes, expending five cartridges, the lawsuit states.
Kephart, who the suit said was “overheard screaming for help,” stopped breathing at the gas station.
The suit also accused the officers, named as Deputy Ismael Diaz, Deputy Michael Gardea and Sergeant Bryan Lane, of failing to immediately perform cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) or call for emergency assistance.
A representative from the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department declined to comment on the lawsuit.
But the department said in a statement earlier this year that Kephart “became combative and uncooperative” with a deputy after exiting his car.
The department also said the sheriff’s deputies did at one point perform CPR on Kephart, and that he was later pronounced dead at a local hospital.
Kephart’s family is seeking general and compensatory damages in an amount to be proven at trial for lost earning potential and loss of love and affection.
“Allen Kephart was a well known person in the community and was known by all, including the officers involved in this incident, to be … kind hearted and nonviolent,” the lawsuit said.
Copyright 2011 Thomson Reuters. Click for restrictions.
Injustice Everywhere
National Police Misconduct NewsFeed Daily Recap 08-31-11
Posted: 01 Sep 2011 02:10 AM PDT
Here are the 38 reports of police misconduct tracked in our National Police Misconduct News Feed for this record-breaking* Wednesday, August 31, 2011:
Washington Co OR sued by man who was unarmed & only dressed in underwear when he was shot by deputies who burst into the house he was staying in over a minor property damage complaint [3] bit.ly/qz6KQh
Seminole Co FL settles suit for $3.2mil to man shot by deputies on his own property, dept destroyed evidence [0] thesent.nl/qSo6TH
Pittsburgh PA narc cop subject of fed probe & planned lawsuit for allegedly pistol whipping a motorist during a traffic stop last year[3] bit.ly/nFZ8WW
9 Westchester Co NY police agencies involved in alleged excessive force incident on video against Muslim men & women [3] bit.ly/pdZtH0
Omaha NE police investigate videotaped arrest at hospital involving 9 cops, some seen punching & kicking man [1] bit.ly/oj7AyS
Polk Co IA deputy once disciplined for racially profiling Hispanics now investigated for allegedly pistol-whipping Hispanic man & beating another in an off-duty road rage incident where the uninjured deputy claims he was the victim. While the department is defending him, a third-party witness says the deputy appeared to be the aggressor. [1] bit.ly/nkyBoL
New Orleans LA cop fired for violating policies in car chase that ended in uninvolved 18yr-old girl’s death [0] bit.ly/om4fMz
Karnak IL police chief investigated for tasering & arresting councilman after he voted against new police dog [3] bit.ly/nNqlRU
Philadelphia PA cop arrested on several charges over previously reported allegations that he raped a woman in his cruiser that he offered a ride to while on duty [0] bit.ly/p1IIEX
San Jose CA cop reinstated after he was fired for his role in a DUI cover-up has now arrested on allegations that he sexually molested 2 teenage boys that he plied with alcohol. [0] bit.ly/prWmnA
Harris Co TX Precinct 3 Constable deputy resigns in lieu of firing for allegedly fondling woman during traffic stop [0] bit.ly/o4F8zf
RCMP constable sues alleging supervisor misused his position to sexually assault her & force her into relationship [3] bit.ly/roo34S
Brazos Co TX Precinct 2 deputy constable arrested for kidnapping after spotted handcuffing woman without cause then driving her around without taking her to the station. There may be more to this one since the investigation is ongoing. [1] bit.ly/pyIoQd
Knoxville TN cop gets probation in plea deal for plying 2 teen girls w/alcohol while downloading child porn [0] bit.ly/o6n34U
Livingston TN sued by woman after chief gives recommendation to cop fired for groping & sending her genital pics [3] bit.ly/pyLE9q
San Bernardino Co CA deputy sentenced to 270days jail for having sex w/17yr-old female member of explorers program [0] http://bit.ly/nNKirr
Amber OK asst police chief arrested on allegations he pointed gun at wife & children while talking about murder/suicide and saying, “which one should I shoot first?” [0] bit.ly/pmsXTQ
Baltimore MD police sued by man claiming cops deleted videos on cell in confrontation between cops & girlfriend [4] bit.ly/ocaym6
Lakewood OH police sued by woman attempting to get legally owned firearms returned after cops illegally raided apt [3] bit.ly/pS3jhB
12 Pennsylvania state troopers sued by man claiming they conspired w/trooper dating his wife to falsely arrest him [3] bit.ly/ow5MDR
Unspecified federal law enforcement agent arrested for allegedly choking medic & kicking cop who responded to call [1] wj.la/pOCh8A
East Cleveland OH cop tasered when arrested on disorderly conduct charge during domestic dispute w/wife [0] bit.ly/qNkDCQ
Atlanta GA audit confirms at least 85 cops not certified to make arrests due to training lapses, previous est 200 [0] bit.ly/oYQrMR
Miami Beach FL cop accused of pulling knife to deflate Beyoncé’s sister’s banana has history of disciplinary issues [0] sunsent.nl/omMq54
Pasco Co FL deputy arrested for failing to turn in evidence from 10 arrests after drugs were found in his patrol car [0] bit.ly/p5hI0b
Vernal UT cop resigns after arrested on allegations he committed 2 burglaries to steal prescription drugs [0] bit.ly/oAP4AH
Williamsburg KY cop sentenced to 9yrs 4mo for burglarizing pharmacy in effort to steal prescription painkillers [0] bit.ly/oe81PI
Seattle WA police dropped their court fight against a man seeking records about the investigation into his excessive force complaint in a stunning about-face for a department known for keeping disciplinary records secret. This change came about shortly after a state supreme court ruling in an unrelated case found that departments must release those records. [0] bit.ly/oghgf6
Coatesville PA police lieutenant once accused of rape now suspended while subject of unspecified investigation [2] bit.ly/ruOGos
Booneville MS police chief & one of his police officers fired for unspecified reasons during special board meeting [3] bit.ly/podARw
New Orleans LA cop investigated after YouTube video shows him driving erratically in unmarked cruiser, hit guardrail [0] bit.ly/oFVlfn
Jefferson Co KY no discipline for deputy who delayed trials tainting 200 in jury pool, urged them to punish suspects [0] bit.ly/pUHNdx
Muskogee Co OK deputy charged w/obstruction, allegedly lied about firing gun in domestic dispute, witnesses allegedly told police later that her boyfriend fired it instead [0] bit.ly/rh44W0
Viena Twp OH police under investigation after $1,500 found missing from locked drawer in police dept [0] bit.ly/qXd5tG
Easton NY police officer pleads guilty to drunk & disorderly charges, fined $50, another faces court today for same [0] bit.ly/pKLELh
Madison WI cop suspended 6 days for infecting work laptop w/virus while downloading movies while on duty [0] bit.ly/nbdXP0
Aurora CO SWAT cop was charged w/DUI over stop that occured in January that is only now being released [2] bit.ly/noYz4t
Aurora CO police lieutenant head of gang task force reassigned after investigation finds he was skipping out of work [0] bit.ly/qKO0II
*The previous record for most reports tracked in a single day was 36.
That’s it for today, stay safe out there and let’s hope for fewer reports tomorrow.
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“Uncontrolled search and seizure is one of the first and most effective weapons in the arsenal of every arbitrary government…Among deprivations of rights, none is so effective in cowing a population, crushing the spirit of the individual and putting terror in every heart.”– Justice Robert Jackson, chief U.S. prosecutor at the Nuremberg Trials
While most Americans understand Janet Napolitano and her Constitution violating TSA is out to get ordinary American citizens and doesn’t appear to care much about nabbing terrorist, we at least have a more insight that the TSA is indeed out to get Americans.
According to the Rutherford Institute, the TSA deals with perceived threats by following its motto posted at its air marshall training centers in the wake of 9/11. The motto is:
Dominate. Intimidate. Control.
While most Americans can appreciate this motto applying only to terrorists or perceived terrorists, more often than not, Americans trying to fly from point A to point B have experienced the reality of this motto as applied beyond mere terroristic threats. This puts terror more in the hearts of American citizens than it does terrorists. Terrorists want to cause terror. Americans living in fear of their own government is part of what a terrorist is trying to accomplish. One can only make the connection that the TSA is out to terrorize American citizens so it can control them.
Our government no longer respects those who put it in power, but it seeks to impose its will on us so as to take away our power.
That organization is obviously targeting Americans, rather than terrorists. Those who are interested in killing themselves in the hopes of taking a lot more people with them are not (very easily) dominated, intimidated, and/or controlled.
Cute motto though…for a bunch of poorly trained, part-time Security Guards.
Yes, you guys need to hook up right before the rally, hold hands and sing “Kumbia” (check spelling). lol
yes, and dont laught when we do-just for you wrong
Laugh? I’ll join yall!
merijoe :Fedup-we are fighting the same side-lets start over- hope to see you tomorrow
Yes, you guys need to hook up right before the rally, hold hands and sing “Kumbia” (check spelling). lol
Merijoe let me stick my finger in your snatch and call it macaroni, just kidding..your assssss
Dang Fedup, I can’t believe 9c1copcar admits he hangs with you. lol
Hey! 9c1.needs to feel special once in a while ya know? Lol!
Fedup- as long as its for Kelly -Im game 🙂 (reality famous smiley)
So long as you keep goofy questions to a minimum, we’re on!
Way to go merijoe, you’ve just invited ‘smiley girl’. Be seeing a post from her or HIM soon.
I left number 420 message. What does that mean?
Fed Up and I should be at the protest around 1000 hrs tomorrow.
I will say this; WE will be honored to meet all you wonderful people tomorrow.
I wish I could be with you all tomorrow. Keep this alive and eventually I’ll make my way over from Texas!
Wrong Guy,
Just claim it was a MEDICINAL post, and you will alright. Just to be safe though, have your FAKE medical script in hand!!
Likewise all Wonderful people. I should be arriving around 900 hrs. I’m all up for it. Was last week too.
wrong-how will i recognize you?
Gathering at what has become a regular protest of the Fullerton police confrontation that left a homeless man dead, activist Frank Alonzo hoisted aloft a flag with a snake curled under the slogan “Don’t Tread on Me.”
He and others were in front of the Fullerton police station to demand action against the officers who they believe fatally beat Kelly Thomas. But for some there was an underlying political message that went well beyond police brutality.
“Here’s the problem: Those cops are symptoms of a disease, and the disease is big government — arrogant, self-serving big government. It all starts at the top,” said Alonzo, Orange County coordinator of Campaign for Liberty, a group founded by Republican congressman and presidential candidate Ron Paul.
Thomas’ death has become a rallying cry in the northern Orange County city and beyond, roiling local politics and creating a movement known to some as “Kelly’s Army.”
While the protesters have come from across the political spectrum, an early driving force was a core group of libertarian-leaning activists, and their allies in elected office, who see the case partially as a way of bringing more sweeping changes to local government.
They see the beating as an example of government overreach — and the city’s perceived unwillingness to take action against the officers as an example of union power.
“I believe in limited government, I don’t believe government has the solution to all our social problems,” said real estate developer Tony Bushala, a libertarian-leaning Republican who has launched a recall campaign against three council members over the Thomas case. “When government tries to come up with the solution, they create a new problem.”
Bushala was a familiar face in Fullerton politics well before the Thomas case and sued the city in an attempt to block expansion of its redevelopment agency, a case that he lost and is now appealing. His blog, Friends for Fullerton’s Future, has slammed big government, pensions and public employee unions for years. The blog has now become a central rallying point for activists in the Thomas case, posting video interviews with witnesses and the names of the officers allegedly involved. (The city has refused to confirm the officers’ names).
Political experts said it’s no surprise that Fullerton would become such a flash point. Decades ago, the city helped elect ultra-conservative Rep. William E. Dannemeyer to office. Anti-tax activists, including sitting Councilman Bruce Whitaker — recalled three council members in 1994.
“There are some communities in Orange County in which people are disengaged. However, Fullerton is not one of them,” said Fred Smoller, a political science professor at Chapman University, adding that the interests of libertarian and liberal groups intersect on the issue of police brutality.
Thomas, a homeless man with schizophrenia, died five days after a July 5 struggle with six police officers, in a case that has garnered national attention. Officers approached him after receiving a call of someone trying to break into cars in the parking lot next to a downtown transit center.
Kelly’s father, Ron Thomas, has become the face of the crusade, attending council meeting and rallies and repeatedly calling for criminal charges against the officers. The case is under investigation by the Orange County district attorney’s office and the FBI.
Thomas said that he has been frustrated by what he sees as attempts by people with political agendas on both the right and left to further their own causes through his son’s death.
“I honestly think some folks are out there to use my son’s death to bring light to their own cause,” he said.
Among the groups that have come out to protest Kelly’s death are the conservative Campaign for Liberty and the Oath Keepers, a “patriot” group of military and law enforcement officers.
Groups on the left have also joined, including the A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition, a group that is a regular fixture at anti-police brutality protests. A.N.S.W.E.R. Los Angeles coordinator Ian Thompson said the anti-police brutality protests in Fullerton were the first where he has seen conservative groups taking such an outspoken stance against the police.
On the Fullerton council, the two members who loudly criticized the Police Department over the Thomas case were Democrat Sharon Quirk-Silva and Bruce Whitaker, a longtime anti-tax activist who has garnered the endorsement of the local “tea party” chapter. And county Supervisor Shawn Nelson, a Whitaker ally, called for an FBI investigation into the case.
Fullerton school board member Chris Thompson has emerged as one of the loudest critics of the police handling of the Thomas case, speaking at council meetings, coordinating the recall effort and interviewing witnesses on Bushala’s blog. He sees the Thomas case as part of a larger problem with local government.
“If I were to get a tattoo, I would potentially get, ‘Public employee unions bad,'” he said.
One of the three council members facing recall, Don Bankhead, was recalled once before, in a 1994 special election. The recall committee included Whitaker. In an unusual twist, Bankhead was out of office for less than a month before being voted back into the seat in the regular November election.
Bankhead said he was being punished this time around for heeding the city attorney’s advice to keep quiet about the Thomas case. But he also said the case may be an excuse for political enemies like Bushala.
“It’s obvious that certainly redevelopment is part of it, and this very unfortunate situation involving our officers I realize probably has given him another reason,” he said.
In a statement responding to the recall attempt, the targeted council members slammed Bushala for using the Kelly Thomas case to score political points and said he was using them as a “political piñata.” The statement labeled Bushala a “millionaire developer” who is trying to turn the case into a political movement.
abby.sewell@latimes.com
Wrong Guy,
Fed Up and I were there last Saturday, although kind of late.
Merijoe, check your e-mail.
9c1-I was there the past 3 Saturdays. I’ll look you up tomorrow. I was there unitl 3 last SAt.
wrong-nothing yet
i’ll keep checking
wrong still nothing, try again
I rec’d and e-mail from you however I attempted to send you a couple of messages from by Blackberry and they keep bouncing back w/error messages. My personal computer took a dump, I believe, so I’ve been using my ‘pile of crap’ company issued laptop, which is in delay mode, making it difficult to send blog messages. I’m gettin’ no respect from hi-tech…..Not to worry, I’ll get a message to ya.
Hope to see a big crowd there tomorrow.
If it comes down to it merigoe, 9c1copcar will introduce us.
i dont know him either
or her
Watch that her sh*@ with 9c1, merijoe. You may have to have a feel when you meet him. lol…. I’ll try sending you again.
im just sayin I dont know if 9c is a man or woman- I’ll skip the feel ups
ok wrong, thanks
LASD,
Please tell me your current unit of assignment. I would be very interested to know. Just for your knowledge, LASD DOES randomly test for drugs; they have now for over a decade. Guess you are not too informed of facts, or are you trying to come off as someone in the know.
The LAPD is supposed to have pensioned Ofc Cincinelli off with a 70% pension. ‘If’ he was still getting the LAPD pension; in addition to his FPD salary, which itself includes a second pension, he must be about the highest paid street officer on the FPD, or any other Dept. Even if he cashed out LAPD’s pension in lieu of regular payments; he should still be quite well off, because in addition to his FPD salary, he would also be getting the interest, dividends and capital gains from the investments from the pension cash out. When he was hired by the FPD he must have been laughing … all the way to the bank.
I contribute to our state retirement system. This year an audit was done and it was discovered that a few connected state employees were double dipping into the state retirement system. They just “seemed” to fall through the cracks. These retirees were in effect collecting two pensions.These employees recieved some pretty harsh, and justifiable, judgements against them, had to pay back what they owed the system with interest, and then were fired. I would think that Cincinelli cashed out because of his disability, and would have recieved a lump sum of his contribution to the system with accrued interest. If he then was rehired and started contributing to system again he would have started anew and this technically be would be legal
You Mad Bloggers are hard up for somethng to say so you keep repeating the same old mantra. Okay I can play your game.
Law 101 “But For” If Dad Thomas had been taking care of his son, none of this would have happened. He is to blame directly for his son’s death. No food! No clothes! No friends! No family! No money! What’s a guy to do? Steal whatever he can to survive.
But someone said taking converters off of cars was not stealing. Well, I think you may be wrong. Taking anything that belongs to someone else is stealing.
You know Tony, Chris and Travis are trying to keep this thing going for their own gain, and not for KT. It is for their own political gain. And they are trying to make others look bad by changing their blog names. Chris, that you?
Dad Thomas only wants money, a lot of it. Chris wants to play politics and so does Tony. Travis, well, he’s too lame to do anything but threaten people. Wow… you guys are a real piece of work.
Did anyone show up at the protest today?
Yea, Jaynbond maybe 30 to 40 “riverrat looking” people were there. They looked like they drove in from Blythe or Laughlin or maybe Stanton — I doubt many of them even live in Orange County, let alone Fullerton, well except those from Stanton.
Of course, you tell your bloggers to ignore those of us you refer to us as “trolls”. Yet when we have a different view or oppose your blog, you get all upset, like it’s a personal attack. How can it be a personal, when our identities are anonymous?
Well then, explain why someone hijacks my original blog name.
You say we are all entitled to our own opinion on this blog but when it’s not the same as your followers, you attack and get defensive.
So what is it? You have contradicted yourselves from day one. Please just post something and stick with it. I have not faltered at all. I have had the same opinion from day one. But when you bloggers continue to “tweak” the truth and change your minds, all the time — you discredit this blog and you will never be taken seriously.
Just some things to think about.
Also, if someone uses my blog name and misspells, uses profane and inappropriate language or doesn’t make any sense —ITS NOT ME< OUTRAGED!
Nice try, troll. Like the pigs who murdered Kelly, it’s clear you have the attitude that:
a) you can judge people based on their appearance,
and
b) some lives are worth more less than others.
You are quite wrong on both counts, loser. Keep up the great copy/pasting, though, because I’m sure it’s having an enormous affect on the majority of people here with critical thinking skills and normal human empathy.
Hey you stopped ignoring me, didn’t you? You are obviously upset. You are all off topic now. Also, I am not the only one copying and pasting. Plus I wanted to make sure everyone knew how this blog works…
and hey I got your attention, didn’t I? I told you this is not over, it will never be over for me.
Actually, I haven’t seen another poster on this blog who is so narcissistic and in love with their own words that they would copy and paste the exact same paragraphs five times or more on the bottom of different entries.
I’m sorry you are too stupid to not understand my post above. I say that because it was 100% on topic and you thought otherwise. You made some rude remark about what the protesters looked like and where they came from (as if any of that mattered). It just reinforced the same belief that seems to be present in many of you trolls that some lives are worth more (or less) than others and that you can judge a person’s character by their outward appearance. That is the epitome of a shallow, amoral, dim-witted person (such as yourself).
Police are liars. They will lie and make up anything to justify humiliating, dominating, beating, bullying and searching other males. Seriously they are so far gone beyond honesty they cannot recognize honesty when they encounter it. The police force attracts bullies and there should be a 3 strike rule along with a 6 month check by an independent psych to make sure that they have not become a bully with a badge which is what most of them are in my personal experience.
I’m sure John and Ken would play the testimony over the radio on KFI, that would get your friend the interview with FBI real fast! I’ve lost jobs for refusing far less illegal orders. But your friend can turn this around and people would respect their courage if they came forward.
It may be a bit difficult to recognize how to present my
emotions right now, you really did a quantity over at my advice
on your post, The Missing Phone Call.