A Lack of Trust, by Robyn Nordell
As is evidenced from the comments tonight, the comments from the last few city council meetings, the FPD protests, and the current city council agenda which is full of lawsuits which will cost the city millions of dollars, it’s obvious that there is a great deal of anger and mistrust towards the Fullerton Police Dept and the City of Fullerton.
A large number of negative incidents involving Fullerton police officers continue to come to light, ranging from alleged sexual misconduct of officers towards women whom they have stopped, to officers allegedly committing theft, to charges of false arrest, and so on. Our family experienced a mistaken raid on our home by armed undercover vice cops who were looking for the home next door.
Clearly, it is in the best interest of everyone for the FPD and the city council to work hard to win back the trust of people. In doing so it seems obvious that it would be Wise to Avoid Doing Things That Unnecessarily Increase Distrust.
THE CURRENT UNACCEPTABLE SITUATION
There is a situation in the FPD that can be corrected. Making this correction should take away some of the distrust.
Your current FPD Spokesperson / Public Information Officer has had, and still has, a major role in the Fullerton Police Officers union. (FPOA)
Here are three examples of his significance to the union:
- RECENT—On behalf of the police union, Mr. Goodrich was 1 of 3 signers of the 2009-2011 police union contract. (Signatures are found on pg 45 of the “ Fullerton Police Officers Association (FPOA)-Police Safety Unit” labor agreement, http://www.ci.fullerton.ca.us/depts/pers_serv/labor_agreements.asp
- CURRENT—On behalf of the police union, Mr. Goodrich is on the small negotiating team for the current police union contract. As a member of that team he would be trying, of course, to get the highest salary and best benefits possible for the union members. To do so, you would assume that he would be trying to put the officers in the best light possible.
- IN THE PAST— In 2003, Mr. Goodrich wrote a how-to article for union members entitled, “The Value of Political Involvement-Your Association’s Role in Local Politics.” This piece explained effective ways for the union to get their choice of candidates elected to the city council and WHY it is in the union’s best interest to do so. (Goodrich’s document is located within this article, “Peer into the Thought Process of the FPOA,” www.fullertonsfuture.org)
I think it is absurd for someone in a significant role in the police union to be the spokesperson for the Fullerton Police Department. This situation obviously causes distrust by many in the community and it makes the leadership of the FPD, the city manager, and the city council look foolish.
In his “union role”—Mr. Goodrich’s union task would be to put police officers in as positive of a light as possible.
In his spokesperson role”—when he is speaking on behalf of the FPD—putting police officers in as positive of a light as possible should not be his concern. His concern should be honesty, accuracy, and transparency.
HERE’S MY SUGGESTION:
The current FPD Spokesperson/Public Information Officer (Mr. Goodrich) should be reassigned to a different position and he should be replaced by an officer who has not had a major role in the Fullerton Police Officers Union.
Just goes to show you how out of touch the Fullerton City Council is with reality. Why hasn’t your boy Whitaker said anything about this? Maybe he should be the next to go?
FPD needs major reform (or even replacement by OC Sheriffs Dept). Replacement of Goodrich is one of the many things this is needed to reform FPD.
Robyn has more courage in her baby finger than the three blind dinosaurs have in their collective large bodies.
can we recall all five?
You could try, but it would fail. That much change is too radical for most of the dopes who vote.
Goodrich is responsible for so much irresponsibility. His misinformation has been as transparent as glass and has only inflamed the justifiable outrage over police misconduct.
It still remains unclear if he is a marionetted Pinocchio for the department or just pulling his own Chatty Cathy doll string.
That post hits the nail on the head.
What kind of operation would put the chief union apologist in the role of official media contact?
A culture of corruption.
Everything was fine so long as none of the crap fell off the crap wagon and idiots like Lou Fonsi were reporting about the daffodil sales at the Arboretum.
Now it’s a whole new ballgame. And Goodrich’s only strategy is to make stuff up.
curious-does goodrich think up all by himself what to say on camera or is he being fed his foolishness by someone?
his comments come from chinese fortune cookies..
They have to spin negative publicity so much the facts get muddled and you end up confused about what was originally the problem!
It is now coming to light that unions have TOO MUCH POWER!
I think he should be arrested as an accessory because of his lies, propaganda and harassment done under the color of law. It is illegal to knowingly use public funds and instruments to cover up criminal activity. If a citizen had given false info to police he/she would be charged so if a ‘policeman’ gives false info to the public he should also be arrested.
http://www.theagitator.com/2011/09/21/22183/
–
Powerful Video From Reason.tv
Wednesday, September 21st, 2011
about Kelly thomas case
Every Fulleton resident, is by now, fully aware of all the problems, shenanigans and the such regarding the city council/police. A full recall would be the order-of-the-day, even if all recalled do not lose their seats. It would give them a scare, and let all know that they had better clean up their act.
from kfi’s website:
OCDA To Announce Charges
KFI AM 640 will carry OCDA Press Conference LIVE at 11AM.
SANTA ANA (CNS) – Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas is expected to announce today if charges will be filed against any of the six officers involved in the in-custody death of a schizophrenic homeless man suspected of theft.
The Orange County Coroner’s Office sent its report on what caused the death of Kelly Thomas to the District Attorney’s Office Tuesday, prompting Rackauckas to schedule a news conference for late this morning.
Representatives of the Fullerton Police Department will not attend the news conference and may either conduct their own news conference later today or just issue a statement, police Sgt. Andrew Goodrich said.
The death of Thomas, who was disconnected from life-support machines five days after his July 5 arrest at the Fullerton Transportation Center, has touched off a firestorm in Fullerton, including an effort to recall three City Council members.
Fullerton police Chief Michael Sellers has gone on a month-to-month medical leave since August, when two City Council members called for his resignation, leaving Capt. Kevin Hamilton as acting chief.
The six officers involved in Thomas’s arrest have been placed on administrative leave.
Thomas’ father, Ron, a former sheriff’s deputy, and the victim’s mother, Cathy, have filed a claim against Fullerton, the precursor to a lawsuit. They are represented by attorney Garo Mardirossian, who has held several news conferences to criticize Fullerton police and pressure Rackauckas to accelerate his investigation.
Mardirossian also represents Edward Miguel Quinonez, 28, and Veth Mam, 35, who allege that Fullerton police Officer Kenton Hampton falsely arrested them in separate incidents. Mam was acquitted of resisting arrest and Quinonez, who filed a complaint with Fullerton police last year, reached a settlement with city officials.
Mardirossian has claimed Hampton was among the six officers involved in Thomas’ arrest, but city officials have not confirmed that.
The FBI has opened a parallel investigation into whether the officers violated Thomas’ civil rights and Fullerton City Council members have also hired an independent investigator to do an internal review of the arrest.
From what I am hearing, the city council meeting last night was a total embarrassment.
yep…
Citizens told to shut up up, I believe.
Why do the police/DA/city plants/sympathizers on here always seem to have multiple usernames each?
a few times. and doc jones stomped out of the room a few times again…
wow!! thanks for posting this vid, it is powerful!!
Kelly Thomas: Authorities increase security in case of protests
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/09/kelly-thomas-protests-security.html
Wow! Thank you for sharing. Excellent. Really well done.
Add one important fact. The media wouldn’t touch that picture until FFFF posted it. Then the dam was broken.
Kudos to FFFF for picking up the ball and running with it for ten weeks.
Thanks. We were the first in and we will be the last out.
Promise.
Yep, a lot of the embarrassment stems from the speakers who can’t control themselves at the podium & those who can’t keep quiet while they sit/stand in the audience.
Why should they be quiet when all they hear is the same old blather..The council voted to keep ole “Run n hide Sellers” on paid leave… he should be fired. The council has not come out and said ticketing protesters was wrong, they do not say anything about Goodcandybars lies, heck they say nothing about anything…. they need to be yelled at. They hired an independant inspector… what has he found…… crickets from the council…
Is there anyone who will be putting any live unedited video stream of the confrence or of the people who are gathered outside? I noticed right away the “control” the DA is putting on all of this in attempt to use favorable media. I don’t want to read about this from typical large media outlets. I’m on pins and needles here in Texas. It’s aleady 12 here and I have to wait another hour.
it will probably be on cnn, not sure
oops, i didn’t see the “favorable media” comment..
you can stream it live on http://www.kfiam640.com/main.html
Thanks for the radio information but what about TV. Any live coverage we can watch outside Fullerton?
Thank you! Just got it to work just in time.
KFI 640 is streaming it live. 12 mins from now.
it will be on KFI 640 radio. bring your ghetto blaster and turn it up.
Kelly Thomas’ father: At least two officers should be charged
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/09/kelly-thomas-father-says-at-least-two-officers-should-be-charged-.html
There were some really good speakers. And although I understand the outrage, distrust and total disgust in people’s hearts and the need to express it, I would have liked to hear the mayor dig himself a bigger hole.
There are two main people that I wish would have held their tongue and showed some self control. We know you are angry and have every right to be, but please consider that others would like to hear what the council has to say.
This is a good point. The out of control speakers played right into the hands of the Council members who were happy just to sit there ans get through the meeting without having to, as yoy put it, dig themselves deeper. Essentially the speakers took the shovel right out of their hands.
better than replacing goodrich would be disbanding FPD and replacing them with officers from another city. Actually, it would be better to dissolve the city of fullerton and its corrupt municipal government, agencies, commissions et al, by annexing fullerton to another city. Switching out city council members and members of the FPD will not root out the problem for this city’s corruption has deep roots
correction – * I would have liked to have seen the mayor dig himself a bigger hole.
I am on needles as well and really hope to hear something good from the DA. I am holding onto hope but have a feeling it won’t be good.
Peace
SANTA ANA, Calif. (AP) — Attorney: Police officer charged with murder in death of mentally ill homeless man in Calif
APNewsBreak: CA police officer charged with murder
By GILLIAN FLACCUS
Associated Press
SANTA ANA, Calif. (AP) — A defense lawyer says a police officer has been charged with murder in the death of a mentally ill homeless man in Southern California.
Attorney John Barnett says his client, Fullerton police Officer Manuel Ramos, surrendered to authorities Wednesday and was being charged with second-degree murder.
The Orange County district attorney’s office was set to announce the charge in the death of 37-year-old Kelly Thomas after a violent confrontation on July 5 with Fullerton officers.
Six officers were placed on paid administrative leave after the incident that occurred while police were investigating reported vehicle break-ins at a transit hub.
Thomas suffered severe head and neck injuries and was taken off life support five days later.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POLICE_HOMELESS_DEATH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
I believe John Barnett is one of the lawyers who represented the “officers” who used Rodney King as a human pinata.
Barnett is ‘the man’ for these kinds of cases. It was clear some time ago to me that he would be representing one or more of the officers involved.
Wow, more than even I had hoped for.
Assault with a Deadly Weapon with Great Bodily Injury for the lesser charged?
KTLA going live right now with the DA’s press conference.
KFINEWSKFI NEWS
Atty John Barnett says Fullerton pd Officer Manuel Ramos, surrendered today- being charged with 2nd degree murder for death of #kellythomas
Ramos surrendered!
manuel ramos gets charge with 2nd degree murder.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/apnewsbreak-ca-police-officer-charged-murder-14572977
2nd degree murder charges for Ramos.
its live on cnn for the out of towners
KTLA did a great live stream. Kudos to them, and to Ruckus.
channel 7 live
KFINEWSKFI NEWS
Steve here in Santa Ana-I broke the news about murder charge to Kelly Thomas’ Dad, Ron…he clinchd fist and said, “Yes” #kellythomas
150 witnesses. cops will eat the big bhuna. never should have happened.
Yes!!!! Charges filed against two scumbag cops!!!
Yes!! Charges filed against two scumbag cops!!!
Yes!!!
Ramos and who else? I missed it.
Ciccinelli
and it will work against him if so…
this is going to be an ugly trial
I still want the FBI to takedown Sellers and the policy that allowed Sellers the accomplice to help them out and let them keep badges after murdering a citizen in a very nice town…
*EyeNeverSayNo * I owe you an apology since it seems I may have gotten you confused with someone else harassing a father who just had his child murdered. My gripe with you was you seemed to think the DA’s ‘attempts” were enough to amount to really doing something.. We will see the video and know he had not much choice.. esp if DAR’s were turned on…
Anyhow, I apologize for thinking you were one of the RT harassers /peace
I have a feeling like I said before.. the horrific videos really really pushed the DA’s hand.. maybe some of them had their DAR’s turned on too..
Sup with Cincinelli/Hampton etc??
Cop defense is a unique sub-specialty of criminal defense. The unions pay them well and they are generally “good” – as in skillfull Nazis were also “good.” The rest of the criminal defense bar will have nothing to do with them.
But they get to really specialize because they don’t have to worry about bringing clients in the door to pay for rent and food. They can twist every excessive force claim like a pretzel. They are disgusting, but unfortunately very good at what they do with a high acquittal rate.
Now I am praying for the best prosecution team Ruckus can muster. I hope also some of the cops he let off are agreeing to testify for the prosecution.
Ruckus did a great job at the press conference, I’m humbled to say. The real facts were even more nauseating than we anticipated. The video will require several drinks to stomach.
I know it’s a little soon to post, and I’m listening to the DA now, but why no charges against Wolfe?… and the other officers? They need to be charged with something. Is there another path with which to get the others?
Thank Heart for that.. ./cry
why did those men do this
now
^^now had
FBI DO YOUR WORK! after it
FBI DO YOUR WORK
Win. +++ vibes +++
Ramos and Cicinelli to be arraigned at 2:00 pm this afternoon.
T-Rack says evidence does not support charges against the rest, but his office is open to filing further charges if additional evidence warrants.
Mardirossian, IMO, foolishly calling for immediate release of the video and DAR audio.
We don’t want your opinion anymore.
ME EITHER,eyeneversayno MAKE,S YOU A WHORE!!!!!!
Just heard the press conference and all I can say is BULLSHIT!!!!
Not good enough!!!!
Not second degree murder, not manslaughter, and not for only two cops. This is unacceptable! This was MURDER by six cops and accessory to murder by many many more. It’s obvious that they have no intention of seeking justice for Kelly. I don’t think they will get a conviction on any charges for any officers. They just are not motivated to prosecute them as they would you or me. I am so disgusted it is making me sick!!!!
A man (Kelly Thomas) died while the officers were committing a felony. That’s felony murder and they should ALL face the death penalty.
I was SHAKING while watching the live press conference. After following this story and knowing vaguely what happened to hear the DA explain the video step by step was heartbreaking. The only reason Ramos was charged with murder was because he incriminated himself by saying he was going to Fuck Kelly up, that’s premeditated. Fuck hi, fuck Cicinelli and fuck all of the officers that stood there and watched.
Watching, I kept thinking, Oh Kelly, poor Kelly.
He must have been so scared.
Yes. The video must be bloody awful.
Maybe it’s just me, but Tony seemed emotionally bunched up during his press conference.
You never know what a jury will do, but I think these two dirty rats are going up the river.
Good points, NYC. Wish I were there having dinner and going out to a fantastic play. This indeed was very sad to listen to. Ruckus performed well at the press conference.
Anyone know if these scum are merely “summoned to appear” at 2 today, or have the losers been arrested like anyone else on the planet would have been?
Where’s the FBI?
Where are the FBI and Dept. of Justice?
not enough rackauckas! if these weren’t cops, they would all be charged! how is cicinelli not charged with murder!!!!!!!!!!!!!
t-rack, you’re a shill for the FPD. you have failed in your duty!!!!!!!!!
Ramos: One count Second Degree Murder, one count Involuntary Manslaughter. Up to 15 years in prison if convicted
Cicinelli: One count of felony involuntary manslaughter and one count felony excessive force. Up to four years if convicted.
Second is 15 to life.
The one eyed jack scumbag Cicinelli is charged with involuntary only. The max on that is 4 years. To oversimplify but be basically accurate, involuntary means acted with extreme negligence.
But you were right and I was wrong about the DA filing serious charges. I think not charging more was some kind of political/legal compromise. But this was still very strong.
Wolf joined the beating, after Kelly is already pinned by the obviously over weight Ramos, and he cant see that is enough force?
@ Mainjet, I too am struggling with the lack of charges against Wolf. He did join the fight before Cicinelli. I don’t buy the reasoning that he was protecting his partner. I think at some point he must’ve known the mental disposition of Ramos. He should have intervened and decelerated the situation. There should be policies and procedures about a situation like this.
According to T-rack, the video shows Wolfe arriving well after Ramos’ threat to Thomas that “these hands are getting ready to fuck you up.” This is important because it is the threat that changed what happened moments later from an arrest of a resisting suspect to murder of a man fighting for his very life.
To the officers arriving after Ramos made that threat it appeared Thomas was just another resisting suspect, thus they thought they were simply doing their job in helping Ramos subdue him.
Cicinelli is charged because the video shows him delivering blows to Thomas that constituted use of excessive force to a resisting suspect.
The description by Ruckus of what Wolf did sounded more like reason to charge instead of no-file Wolf. I had to catch myself in thinking at first Ruckus was charging Wolf.
He’s still open to federal criminal civil rights charges and private civil charges, of course in the ongoing suit.
I agree with you ExPat ExLawyer. Even if a suspect is resisting arrest, I don’t believe proper procedure includes shots to the head. Given the way the DA described the entire exchange, I think Wolf should have been charged with something. I would definitely feel scared if he were still participating on any police force or patrol.
Please stop with the bullshit. I don’t think anyone on this site actually believed that the DA would charge any of the cops. Well, he charged two, including one with murder. So, instead of jacking off with your mouths and predicting nothing will happen, take a fucking minute and realize reality: Two cops HAVE been charged. And no one knows what the fuck is going to happen with the case. So, just for a minute, SHUT UP!
Easy boo, 1st amendment rights, remember?
Whats your fixation with whacking off and mouths?
Mr. Boo=Dick Jones? you got the “shut up” part down.
so throw a few peanuts our way and we should be happy? is that it?
I hold out hope for the FBI to do the right thing.
Mr Boo wrote: “I don’t think anyone on this site actually believed that the DA would charge any of the cops.”
Indeed, I was derisively told repeatedly in recent weeks that I was the only one.
And again, I admit my happy culpability in being wrong. I’ll buy you margaritas in Cabo anytime you want. It will be a lot less speculative debating once this evidence comes out. Today was shockin and confirmed all the “knee drop” stuff. The glove scenario with Ramos was delivered by Ruckus with the punch of a nightmare.
The sad part is zero about the other cops. The reason for this is that the extremes of Kelly’s direct killers is a highly unusual one. The actions of the other 4 are very common. And that they will be uncharged with anything, makes it clear for the unionized masses they’ll get a pass for anything less than national-news worthy over the top sadistic and intentional murder.
Ruckus had a difficult political road to hoe, and he did well politically. He’s much smarter than I thought.
We as citizens need to work now to change the state laws that make largely immune from the laws they are charged to enforce. Unions need to go; POBAR needs to go.
Ruckus needed to make it loud and clear to abusive cops that you need to be in the top .1% of abusiveness to get prosecuted. The other 99.9% are ok. Keep the contributions coming.
But it’s a heck of a lot better than I thought, and we should use the case as a means to get the broader change that is needed.
You might want to lighten up your daily steroid dosage. Just sayin’.
ramos 15- life i heard
Hope these thugs get a nice reception where they are going.
Where’s Sissynellis wife and kid now?….. oh yeah they will be at the arraignment…… Wolfe did not hear the conflict from 15 feet? ….. I cry bullshit on that one. If Killer Ramos was speaking in a conversation tone you could hear that from 15feet…. The voice recorders would tell that.
I AMEN THAT – AND THANK YOU FFFF !!!
It’s obvious why the cops were in riot gear practicing crowd control. People get angry (and they should) when there is no justice. People get especially angry when violence is perpetrated by the government against the citizens and there is no justice.
As a free people, the only power the government has is the power we lend them. Time to call in the loan! Take away the power they have repeatedly abused and return it to the people.
If it were 6 citizens who murdered your Son or Daughter they would have
a GIANT LIST OF CHARGES
Huge list
MeYou: “If it were 6 citizens who murdered …”
Irrelevant. Totally.
They were cops, sent out on the street every day pre-authorized to use deady force when necessary.
All citizens are allowed to use force to protect themselves…. Like force or necessary force to stop the threat. Great bodily harm or death will allow a citizen to kill also…… Citizens are “pre authorized” when necessary too….. Your post is irrelevant because yes, 6 citizens jumping into a murder at different times would all have charges against them. Wolfe may have not started off jumping into a murder but it seems they all watched Sissynelli beat kelly in the face… they should have arrested Sissynelli on the spot for various charges. Even the onlooker citizens sensed knew that but the trained cops just let the “good ole boy” have his fun.
Holy shit. Just after complimenting you twice on your prediction, you write this. The fact that they are cops will of course be relevant compared to a citizen. Saying what would happen to a normal citizen is “irrelevant” is also bunk unless you assume a police state.
In other words, cops are going to get more leeway than the average citizen. But you are saying they get close to a full pass. Just from what Ruckus said, Wolf should have been charged. Give me a break.
none of them saw or heard anything.. even as they had a few beers and watched the beating on film so they could all get their stories straight
That cries “conspiracy” to cover up a murder. We can only hope the Feds latch on to this like they did in New Orleans….. Lots of dirty badges in prison for the coverup in the Big Easy.
WHAT ABOUT CHIEF SELLER’S ROLE IN THIS COVER UP.
According to the DA, the video shows Wolfe arriving well after Ramos’ threat to Thomas, thus Wolfe would be presumed not to know Thomas was fighting for his very life, rather than simply resisting arrest.
I know this is hard to swallow because we feel they should have intervened to stop the carnage, but legally it can be reasonably argued that the other officers were just doing their job in helping subdue a resisting suspect if they are not shown in the video to be administering blows themselves and did not know Thomas had been previously threatened with great bodily harm by Ramos.
This is why Cicinelli did not escape without being charged, the video apparently shows him drop kneeing Thomas, pistol whipping him in the face with his taser, and the taser record shows Cicinelli tased Thomas four times directly for five seconds each time (enough time to incapacitate the victim in each instance) and a fifth time with darts. Hence Cicinelli’s felony excessive force charge and the felony involuntary manslaughter charge for directly contributing to Thomas’ death.
Hope this helps explain the charges…
Bull shit.
Your argument assumes the hearing of the glove threat was the only thing that should have put Wolf on notice of abuse.
The glove threat was the nail in the coffin, but there was plenty of other evidene. You are taking the DA’s argument as ironclad, which it isn’t. Please acknowledge this is a political and not a legal decision.
Why would I be quiet mr. boo? i have been waiting for this very moment.
I wish KFI would get rid of Bill Handel (the sleazebag lawyer). Can’t stand to hear his voice after all the times I’ve heard him encouraging people to poison their neighbor’s dogs. He’s no better than those cops.
All this ‘if they weren’t cops’ stuff is pure bullshit. The fact is they are cops, and this is extremely pertinent to understanding the charges.
Make no mistake: Today Ramos and Cicinelli were charged with very serious crimes by the OC DA.
T-Rack says the video does not show Hampton or the others administering blows to Thomas, hence they were spared being charged. And it apparently shows Wolfe arriving after Ramos’ threat to Thomas, “these hands are getting ready to fuck you up.”
Thus, although he held Thomas down, it is believed Wolfe thought he was participating in a legit arrest of a resisting suspect, not a terrorized soon-to-be-victim of murder.
T-Rack must have repeated the “these hands are getting ready to fuck you up” quote of Ramos a dozen times.
Obviously this will be key to showing that when Thomas did resist it was because he was afraid for his life, and again, if the other officers did not know Thomas had been thus threatened, and it seems they did not, Thomas would have appeared to them to be just another resisting suspect, and that by aiding Ramos they were just doing their job, not aiding and abetting murder.
Cicinelli crossed that line by himself administering excessive force blows that contributed to the death of Thomas.
NOT ENOUGH.
ALL ANIMAL COPS ARE GUILTY. THE ANIMALS WHO STOOD BY AND ALLOWED THIS BRUTALITY CONTINUE IN DETAIL AND AS IT SLOW MOTION. DISGRACE THEY NEED TO GO TO THE CAN.
Some legal expert on KFI is saying that the unions will pay for both cops’ defense and the lawyer who is already representing Ramos, John Barnett, is a guy on a list of attorneys who routinely defend cops.
A VIEDO IS WORTH A LOT HERE NO DEFENCE WILL HELP KILLER COP,S GOING AWAY FOR A LONG TIME,THANK GOD FOR THE GOOD PEOPLE OF FULLERTON. OUR PRAY,S AND HARD WORK DID THE JOB TRUETH, AMEN***
I am stunned .It looks like the D.A. is half-way honest,at the moment. It looks like they got the big picture. Ramos gets it,like I said in an earlier post,for cause-and-effect. He started the events in his actions.Cyclops came to his defense,or so he thought. It is a tribe mentality. REALITY IS owes some people an apology.He is a LOE AssClown with a keyboard. He should start with Merijoe. your recall should succeed.
DEALS WERE CUT WEEKS AGO. THE KELLY THOMAS MOVEMENT IS EXPANDING THESE CORRUPT SOCIOPATHS ARE AFRAID OF LOOSING THEIR NUMEROUS DEALS STATEWIDE.
If the cops were not cops, there would be a laundry list a mile long of charges against these people. Even if found not guilty on the most serious charges, they would rot in jail for the rest of their life on all the other charges. This whole thing is a setup so they never spend a day in jail. Disgusting!!!!!!
Apparently if you are a PEACE officer in Fullerton it is ok to WATCH as an innocent person gets beaten to death. We were just thrown 2 bones by the DA. He was forced to do something given there is so much evidence. Now he is a hero???? no
Will they still be on paid leave while facing these charges?
I DON,T KNOW BUT I DO KNOW STATE PEN WILL BE A VERY BAD PLACE FOR THEN, VERY BAD!!! THANK YOU FFFF
Soooooo happy with the murder charge. It’s a start. Let’s see the video. I apologize before saying this..Reality is-where are you now mother fucker?(used for emphasis) No one charged. We didn’t have enough to form opinions on what happened-chiming in from Ohio? What did the DA say was primary cause of death?? External force on the thorax ultimately leading to anoxia. Perhaps you should review my posts. Now go away. EYENEVERSAYNO-same to you. Don’t miss my response to your expert opinion on tox/autopsy report. Then go away.
Actually, I try to ignore those here, such as yourself, who have nothing to offer but misinformation, failed analysis and an unimaginitive potty mouth.
Have a nice day. I am. I was right and you were wrong on all counts. 🙂
Run away from the fight. That’s what you do when you KNOW you’re wrong. Just like the cops did. There was not one word of misinformation in my post and you know it. I would so like to see what an imaginative potty mouth is like. I use that only when responding to complete, utter bullshit which is why I respond that way to you:) If you were right, show me:) Have a great day.
REALITY IS VERY DRUNK BY NOW,HAHAHA
Kelly Thomas’ father satisfied with charges in son’s death
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/09/kelly-thomas-father.html
Where is Reality Is? *crickets*
Is it time to water the tree of liberty yet?
I hope not. I hope the people of Fullerton can stay in control of their emotions but I can understand the anger and outrage.
haha.. you are trying to get me.. nice try though
“deadly force”
for what?
WHERE IS THE TASER REPORT
California policemen charged in death of homeless man
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/21/us-police-beating-idUSTRE78K5SA20110921
What can 2nd degree murder be dropped to
by putting murder on the charge can it be a mistrial because all the paid for jurors know a cop would never murder a citizen
Any case can be plead to anything as long as the court allows it. He is also charged with involuntary manslaughter. That has a top sentence of 4 years.
Does anybody know of jail or bail? Or did they just get a traffic ticket style summons to appear at 2 today, and the court will set bail today.
And how shocking is it that we were just officially informed of these public servants’ names for the first time. The names didn’t exist for the MSM until the government stamp of approval was on. Old East Germany seems to be our legaland media role model.
i want to know the sequence of he taser fire too
I want to know what kind of cop it would have taken to pull out their gun and arrest
Cinci and Ramos while they beating on him
The other 4 are responsible for not doing that
I am in agreement on that with you. Not all out arrest but DECELLERATE the cops escalating behavior. I am still upset that Wolf isn’t being charged with anything. He had enough time to realize his partner was crossing the line, and he had ample time to stop it. Instead, he jumped in the “free for all.” Is there anything that can be done about him and the others?
Concerned Texan, I like the way you think.
THE OTHER,S WILL GET WHAT THAY DID TO KELLY,JUST YOU WHAIT AND SEE GOD IS STILL ALIVE AND WELL.
Where is God when we need Him the most?
Orange County District Attorney, cops, and officials are disciples of God. What can He do?
What if Kelly Thomas is Son of God?
As graphic as the DA’s description of the crime was, there were quite a bit of facts left out. Was there ever a real report made of possible car burglaries? Was a false(or any) police report made? Was the false report made with the knowledge and consent of the police? Was this an intentional confrontation provoked by the police? What about the cop monitoring the video back at the police station? Why didn’t he (or the other officers that arrived later) stop this beating? These facts change everything and none of them were addressed today or will they likely ever be.
While two were charged, it seems a lot of the facts were overlooked or just ignored. Again, it sounds like a setup so none of them are ever convicted of anything. So sad.
i’m sure all that will come out in the trial..
The defense will not bring up these facts and it’s obvious by the charges filed (or lack of charges) that the DA has no interest in information that shows conspiracy and a pre meditated felony. If he did he would have charged them with felony murder and they would face the death penalty.
If a conspiracy existed between bar owners and the police to make false and or exaggerated reports of criminal activity so the cops could remove the undesirable members of the public from a public place then the cops (and the person making the false report) broke the law. Even if Kelly Thomas died from a slip and fall while being peacefully escorted out of the area it is still felony murder.
There are several people in prison for life (charged with first degree murder) resulting from relatively petty crimes that ended with the unintentional or accidental death of someone. The police and DA’s all over the state use this all the time to pressure confessions and or convict citizens and send them to prison for life.
Guessing the others get to roam your streets starting tonight or tomorrow morning.
Very fair and legit..
We need a real DA..
Well, I was half right. Cops 3-6 skated.
You all should save your anger for WHEN a cop – loving OC jury lets both 1-2 off the hook.
I mean, the FUCKING retard jury in the deputy Hibbs case voted 11-1 to acquit him for Tazing the suspect handcuffed in the back of the patrol car.
Do any of you honestly believe a panel of OC idiots will treat this any different?
Please continue to put pressure. Need to see the original reports by all six officers, before the beating/death and pictures were made public. Did they tell the truth about what happened or did they falsify their reports? Did they report misconduct of any and all kind? If no, then seems there should be charges that can stem from that.
Any officer who sees another over-do only that force necessary to overcome that of a suspect, and does nothing to stop said force, is guilty of criminal negligence, and should also be charged as such. The few times I worked with such heavies, I told them in no uncertain terms, that I would not tolerate any abuse, and would stop anything that I saw outside of reasonable force.
Wolfe had a sworn duty to uphold these standards, yet did nothing to end the assault. Hampton should also be charged with manslaughter, as he was seen slamming Kelly’s head into the curb. Again, ALL should be charged, as not one had the courage and decency to bring a halt to this.
9C1COPCAR YOU ARE RIGHT,SOMETIME,S WE HAVE TO LET GOD BE GOD.
At the very least Ramos and Cyclops will be offered plea bargains. They probably will not be much of a bargain because it would create too much furor. That means an about 1 1/2 to 2 year period of time they will have to be out on bail and have this hanging over their heads and that of their extended families which now will believe that their relative is tainted. It is a tough long wait, and of course, not as long as serving in prison. But my point is, now the humiliation begins, they will never be in law enforcement again even if found not guilty. Of course, they could get a I’m on sick leave deal..
More important to me, the California penal code needs wording that charges police officers who do nothing but watch, then are silent. It is very possible they sang to the DA in return for no charges.
I just heard Ron Thomas on KFI say that he was just in a meeting with Rackauckas and was told this will not be plead down, ever.
I am disappointed that the D.A. is not willing to “plea down” this case. The conspiracy to kill Kelly Thomas began, I believe, in January, and there are a lot of “links in the chain” between the Mastermind and the Code Talker and the charged officers, respectively. These two charged officers are most likely the best evidence we will get about the Code, other than the Dispatcher, and any intermediaries between the Dispatcher and the Code Talker. If the DA does not offer any possibility of a plea bargain, then the charged officers have no incentive to “roll” on the Code Talker.
In California, it is extremely hard to prove a criminal conspiracy, because a conviction cannot be had alone on the testimony of a coconspirator. It takes other kinds of corroborating evidence. The best chance for real justice in this case, will be if the Dispatcher simply did not understand that talking in code would lead to such a horrible result.
It’s a tough trade-off… is getting out all of the truth the most important thing, or is getting a conviction the most important thing. In this case, I think that getting to the truth is important, because I believe that the Mastermind acted out of sincere and well-meaning motives, even if the actions were illegal.
So, I would not take plea bargains off the table. I would encourage Kelly’s father to reconsider his position on this.
I’m unable to discern whatever the “…sincere and well-meaning motives…” might be that you are able to find within this situation. Perhaps it would be clear from reading the long thread of comments above (which I have not done), so hopefully you will provide the missing information.
I agree that obtaining the TOTAL disclosure – truth of this sorry glimpse behind the curtain of our Police Department is far more important than a “more severe” charge-conviction or two.
But at bottom, the incredibly corrupt over-compensation of “government workers” VIA Thug Union operations and operatives POLITICAL payoffs and activities (including REAL illegal threats and thuggery), which obviously leads such individuals into codes of silence in order to protect their astronomically inflated pay and compensation, can all be “cured” by removing – decertifying the Unions and firing every and any, even slightly complicit or connected implicated member of these city government departmentS.
To #148, “Rain”: The sincere and well-meaning motives to which I referred were the motives to prevent violence, especially fatal violence, by Kelly Thomas. Amercian society has chosen to let its mentally ill go at large in society, rather than incarcerate them in institutions. The issue is well-treated in a book by Lael Isaac entitled “Madness in the Streets”, which discussed the confluence of the libertarian movement and the states’ fiscal problems to cause the emptying-out of state mental institutions. Unfortunately, some schizophrenics start to disentegrate, and they become increasingly menacing and violent. There are certain people who sincerely believe that the incurably mentally ill who are headed towards violence should be “destroyed”, in much the same way that a farmer destroys a horse or a cow that goes crazy, and becomes too dangerous to have around. They believe this, because there is just no legal way to solve the problem of a mentally ill person who is likely to create violence.
My neighbors in Wonder Valley have a schizophrenic son who is very polite and won awards in high school for raising chickens. He has almost killed each of them, just in the few years I have been a neighbor. Now, they cannot let him come back. He is in and out of jail, and does menacing things like stripping naked at the side yard of a public library. In his particular case, there is a psychoactive medicine that works great, and does not leave him a zombie; but present law does not give the means to anyone to compel him to take such medicine. Not even an LPS Conservatorship.
I had a client a few years ago who was executrix of her parents’ joint estate. Her brother, a schizophrenic, shot both his parents with a gun that he borrowed from a local drug peddler in Highland Park. His father was an ordinary LAPD officer, and had told the drug peddler that he would leave the drug peddler alone if the drug peddler would not have anything to do with his son. Well, the rest is history. Afterwards, the boy shot the drug peddler. For at least three years (until I quit following it), he was in and out of competence to even stand trial. His father fought so hard to get the newest, cutting-edge medical treatments, and to keep him walking around free, and not confined in a state mental institution. [This was before the policy change in the late 1970s.]
I think that some people have become jaded by this phenomenon. They also have fear for their loved ones, or neighbors, or what have you. They reckone that there is often no effective treatment, and even if the treatment really is effective, it is often impossible to compel regular use of medication; and that, when the disintegration into menacing and violent behavior starts, the schizophrenic is, effectively, a sort of “time bomb”. At some point, he or she will commit a violent crime, and quite frequently it is against a family member who has been trying to shelter the ill person. And quite often, the protective family member pays with his or her life, for his or her inability to be “objective” about the dangerous condition of the mentally ill person.
When I was in junior high school, my sister got a used horse named “Misty”. Misty would run rogue when my brothers or I would ride her, but obey my sister. It turns out, the mare had been abused by some man who smoked cigarettes. At any rate, my oldest brother let a high school friend ride the horse, and the horse bolted through the intersection near Morningside Presbyterian Church, and the rider fell off, got hit in the head by the horse’s passing hoof, and then later died. We had early warning signals, but no one with authority in my family was willing to say: “this horse is a liability, and needs to be sold off with full disclosure of its danger, or else destroyed.” So a young woman died.
In our society, we do not incarcerate people because we think that they are likely to commit a crime; we wait until they have committed their “first crimes”. We do things to make it more difficult for certain kinds of crime to occur…. such as making it illegal for felons to get guns… but otherwise, we don’t have a Department of PreCrime, as in the movie “Minority Report”.
So, faced with no way to institutionalize a schizophrenic; ineffective legal remedies, since mentally ill people don’t tend to obey injunctions and the like; no way to incarcerate a person who looks likely to commit a violent crime; with all of these practical realities, it is easy to decide to just gid rid of the problem. With great regret. With regret about the lack of other options. With regret about the sheltering family member’s lack of “objectivity” that subjects others to risks. But with a conviction that it must be done, before there are too many innocent victims.
So that is my theory about what really happened in this case. It was not a decision made in anger. It was a decision made witn a sense of resignation, a sense of helplessness that comes when there are no other options. A decision to prevent one’s self from becoming a victim, because society has so many legal fictions and “pretend games” that one is not really safe from a perceived menace.
The same kind of thinking has, out of necessity, driven many of the controversial tactics in the War on Terror. “Playing by the Rules” won’t work. And so, President Obama chooses to “order the shot’, rather than order that Bin Ladin be taken alive and rendered over for prosecution.
I believe that the prosecutors can find and prove a conspiracy to kill Kelly Thomas. They would need to make generous use of immunities, and to structure plea bargains in mannters that do not require various police officials to give up their jobs or careers.
So, as I said, the question becomes: do we want convictions, or do we want to find out what really happened? I recommend the latter, so that as a result there can be a sustained public dialogue about when it is morally acceptable do engage in “self-help” that the law, in its formalities, says is the worst sort of crime.
The problem of handling severely mentally ill adults was expensive for taxpayers when institutionalization was more common. The political determination was made that “many inmates” did not need to be institutionalized, and thus the hard core of the homeless problem arose.
As we have all come to see, inproved medications can control many difficult cases without institutionalization, IF the patient takes the medication. Some (many who are schizophrenic) do not take their necessary medication.
This seems to be a solvable problem or challenge which the Police or Fire-Paramedic public safety personnel could be expected to handle (as first responders, getting the patient to the doctor, or even administering the medication).
Our trust in our Police Department is currently shaken but this is NOT how things need to be, rather it is the result of HORRID management, which was condoned-caused by the public workers Unions’ and their entirely self-serving and corrupt (i.e. obtain HUGE over compensation via political thuggery) agenda.
The utter failure of public policy would be the “self-help” option (if I have understood your coments, to use that phrase instead of the term “destroyed” used earlier in your comment).
Those mentally ill individuals who CANNOT be controlled to the extent that they are in fact reliably-responsibly medicated would then have to be institutionalized, while the cost saving (current) policy of not unstitutionalizing most mentally ill patients, would work to save money and leave society reasonably-acceptably safe.
No (innocent-incompetent) person needs to be “destroyed” because of limitations or challenges of physical or mental illness, if we use both options for handling patients appropriately to meet their current situation case by case.
“The current FPD Spokesperson/Public Information Officer (Mr. Goodrich) should be reassigned to a different position and he should be replaced by an officer who has not had a major role in the Fullerton Police Officers Union” I agree with this statement but perhaps Mr. Goodrich needs to be reassigned to a weight watchers program (on his own dime). We as taxpayers would hate to see him collapse due to a heart attack while performing his ‘police duties’ or get the crap beat out of him like officer Rivera did way back when because she was so overweight she couldn’t defend herself. Thus creating more of a taxpayer burden due to the high payout of pension funds because of HIS gross negligence and lack of personal responsibility to properly maintain a healthy weight.
The Fed should prosecute the entire Fullerton police dept and city officials, not reassign.
We must united and stand up. Recall is a first step to get rid these crooks and its gangs in Orange County and Fullerton.
Dear Untouchable Sergeant Andrew Goodrich;
You certainly looks like a tough guy with powerful cop union behind. Only if you had used your toughness to stop the other officers from beaten the harmless man to death.
How can you and other Fullerton cops sleep at night all these years?
“To err is human” and stand up like a man. Is there any “real man” in Fullerton Police Dept.?
All of the cops that were present at the Thomas murder scene shoud be charged with murder and/or assessory to murder. Any one of those terrorist cos could have stopped the beatings and the vitim would still be alive today. They are all responsible, every single one of them deserves the death penalty. They are not cops, they are terrorists.