“Dick” Ackerman, Moral Weathervane of the Anti-recall Team. Part 1
Some of our loyal readers have asked us who Dick Ackerman is, and why is he the leader of the opposition to the recall of the Three Shop Worn Stooges on the Fullerton City Council: Jones, Bankhead, and McKinley.
Good question. After all, Ackerman is a resident of Irvine, and although he used to live in Fullerton a long, long time ago, it’s not immediately apparent why he should care about defending the Three Burned Out Bulbs on the council.
Well, these three did support Ackerman’s utterly unqualified wife when the Dickster tried to get her into the Legislature by cooking up a fake address in Fullerton.
But there’s more, and as you may have guessed, it’s the cash nexus. You see, ever since Ackerman termed out of the Legislature he’s been looking to grease his skids peddling the influence he accrued on the taxpayer’s dime. He is employed for lobbying purposes by a law firm called Nossaman; but rather than bring in business he’s actually become embroiled in embarrassing ethical and illegal incidents (more on that in Part 2). The word on Easy Street is that he’s got to bring in some do-re-mi to Nossaman and PDQ, or he’s out.
Which circuitously brings us to the latest round of “affordable” housing projects in Fullerton, the kind of housing that costs two or three times as much to build as the regular kind, and the sort that Dick Ackerman vociferously opposed on principal when he was on the Fullerton City Council. Well that was then, before Ackerman discovered he could profit handsomely from them. Now he is a lobbyist for one of the so-called developers, St. Anton’s Partners, who, not surprisingly, received the promise of millions of dollars in City Redevelopment subsidies from Jones, Bankhead and McKinley on a project just a few weeks ago. Jones, Bankhead and McKinley were so eager to pay off Ackerman that they actually tried to rush through their vote before the public hearing was even held!
And that’s why Ackerman needs to keep Fullerton’s Three Blind Bobbleheads in office, no matter what. There is no noble purpose, no moral justification, no principle at stake. There’s just a big potential payday for Ackerman and his employer, Nossaman. And if you don’t understand that, you don’t know Dick.
Stay tuned for Part 2, in which we share a little Dick Ackerman retrospective.
Joe you are an idiot! What a waste of time!! Keep up the good work and way to keep things off topic!
Hey wait a minute didn’t your birch boy bushala own a bunch of land, and now there is redevelopment there????? Ummmmmm?????! Ya that’s what I thought!!!
What’s a birch boy?
I don’t believe Bushala has ever “developed” any property he owns. That’s just more Ackerman & Co. misinformation. And so what if he did? He’s not making any money off of government which is all Ackerman, Bankhead, Jones, and McKinley know how to do!
you mean, Ackerman’s LIES, not misinformation, lies. call em what they are-lies and more lies.
leave it to cop lovin, greedy, greased up, friends/relatives to spread venom and try hard to ruin someone’s good and kind reputation when it doesn’t fit into their greedy ass, evil agenda, with lies and bullshit-happens all the time – it wont work this time trolls and other assorted unions, lobbists, politicians, FPD and anyone else I missed-there are more of us then you that are on the RIGHT side including God-mafia mix
the homeless arent the fricken beggers-you are
there are banana trees across the street from FPD loaded with bananas-if you all need a snack-make sure you take your socks off so you can peel them
Chip- The best laugh I have had in far too long.
Thank You! I will wait to read the rest of this post later-wish to keep the the smile for awhile.
Sending good thoughts to the family, friends and supporters of the Kelly Thomas group.
Right on target! The point is to show that the anti-recall clowns are all in it for the money. Why else defend three senile old fools!
Yep, and Ackerman just got handed a multi-million payoff from the three chimps in charge.
It all ties together dumbass! 😉
Whats with the pink hearts over Tony and Chris on the anti-recall website? Man crush? What does that mean?
Pretty easy to see the light when you follow the money. Nice work FFFF. keep it up, the edges are crumbling quickly. Soon the core will crack and fold in on itself.
The insiders, looking for taxpayers money to spend at any cost!
You are correct about one thing Joe, there is plenty more to the story, the RAGWUS is pure evil! 🙂
Very nice work admin.
Way to piss off the trolls.
BTW, I can’t wait for part 2….
(I’m sure the trolls can)
RIGHT ON JOE!!!
Ackerman has been twisting arms in Fullerton for far too long.
Anyone that has ever spent 10 minutes with Tricky Dicky Ackerman knows well just how dirty he is.
Fullerton has always gotten the short end of Dick.
It’s pretty easy to see that the trough that they are all feeding from is going to disappear if these 3 immoral and corrupt jackass get the boot. Won’t be long before the people have their say and the tailcoat riding pals of the 3 jackasses have nothing to sponge off of anymore…kind of warms your heart don’t it?
“there are more of us then you that are on the RIGHT side including God-mafia mix”
Absolutely Chip.
WORD
more about Dick…
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/ackerman-289683-state-fair.html
Admin (Tony, Chris, Joe, etc)
What’s the timeline for this recall effort? Signatures almost gathered? Once gathered and submitted, then they have to be verified which takes how long? Then they have to have a recall election? Then if recalled, current 2 council members can decide if they should have a new election or appoint? When do you expect this all to be completed, win or lose?
RI, you’re an agent of the enemy camp. As you know, it’s customary not to share tactical plans with enemy agents. You, like all the other little piglets in pigdom, will know when it happens.
Your questions are surprising in that you have access to all the answers. Is this an offer of an olive branch? Or is it a fig leaf hiding some nefarious plot?
LOL I like that. Agent of the enemy camp.
I’m no enemy. How can I be an enemy? I know deep down inside you know this world isn’t as bad as you make it out to be. You know cops love you at times too. 🙂
I’ve always seen the good and bad of both sides. Always. Never about an olive branch, that’s not needed when people on both sides open their eyes to the reality of what is really going on.
No fig, no pig, no plot. Just what you see is what you get buddy. 🙂
well, Reality Is, because as I see it you are full of racoon shit and are a lowdown dirty skunk who would set the barn on fire if you had matches-I hope the other good posters know that and think to themselves, “Reality Is, none-ya”
If you really feel that way, then it just proves that you really are actually those things you mention and your family and friends probably feel the same way about you. Nice doing business though. 🙂
Ahh, that’s sweet. I love you too! Here’s a present from me to you.
http://youtu.be/i1iiiEgqgT4
awesome xxxooo speaks for me 🙂
🙂
Recall sigs qualify in Feb, June election and instant replacement election. There are no appointments or replacement elections.
The Antis are going to have to either run their own candidates (haha!) or wager everything that the Three Red-assed Baboons can pull it off. I wouldn’t put a plug nickel on that strategy. All they’ve got is to attack Bushala. And only two dozen blue-haired Repuglican Federated Women will fall for that. They also believe McPension is one sexy bald-headed dude!
Copy. Thanks. Yea you seem confident. I would put it at 50 50 right now. You have to get to the voters and I don’t think that has been done yet. Walk around and talk to the gray hairs. They say it’s all a big front by Bushala. Time will tell.
Oh, yeah and what do you think, Reality? well, reality is, pass this on to your pals, ITS NOT a front by Bushala and tell those lying jackals, the truth will prevail everytime-hows that for confidence-you miserable con artist? what you hear and see -is what you get.
LOL easy there buddy. Take your heart meds. No reason to get all agro on me. Just saying it how it is. I hope you succeed. i could care less either way. I said what I think has a chance to work and that’s either all or none. Picking 3 that you want to get out isn’t a good choice. Those other 2 have voted the same and done the same shit as the others, and did the same during the Kelly crisis too. That choice of 3 and not 5 might make the recall fail. We will see.
The truth won’t prevail every time. Even an angry human like you actually knows that. 🙂
hey, dont tell me to calm down, who the hell do you think you are? if more people got angry and spit pea soup at abusers like you, we wouldnt have abusers, you arent on any good side, you hate us and hope we fail. And truth will indeed prevail, you just hope it doesnt so your parade isnt rained on
LOL you are funny. As you say to me, I say to you. You don’t tell me, I don’t tell you. 🙂
I could care less if it rains. If it rains, things get slippery and people fall. Watching people fall is fun. 🙂
Jeez louise, R.I. You must have ice running through your veins. Or you’re that Watson computer that plays on Jeopardy all the time.
It’s almost creepy how you keep that cheery attitude no matter what gets thrown at you. That’s not natural. There’s something very odd about you …
Copy on the gray hairs comments about Bushala deriving universally coming from old farts with their britches pulled up over their heads. The interesting part that I’ve observed is that the actual percentage of gray hairs here in Fullerton that are enamored with these three runs more like around 1or 2 gray hairs out of every 20.
Thanks for the article FL.
This demonstrates and explains why Ackerman fits hand in hand with the Jones, McKinley & Bankhead crew.
Lies, deception, fraud, etc.
The three Corrupt Companaros should be recalled for the Ackerman “affordable” housing payoff alone! The sheer audacity of stepping the project from a recommended position of # 8 out of 9 to near the top of the list of projects was stunning enough, but consider that the rental price of these units will be $ 1,200 per month! Is that affordable housing? No wonder they tried to rush the vote through before anyone noticed!
To all of you who think this recall is about some sort of vendetta or, at worst, incompetence, take note. The Ackerman housing deal was baldfaced corruption. Millions of your tax dollars were promised to a developer fronted by Dick Ackerman for an inferior project at the exact time that Ackerman took the lead in the anti-recall campaign. If that isn’t corrupt enough for you then go wallow in the mud with Bankhead, McKinley and Jones.
So the goal is to somehow convince the voters of that, and that it’s all not just a political agenda of one person that has been after them for years? That’s the hard part. I still wonder if it can be done.
Keep wondering. It’s already been done in this town once before.
3 people? Nice try. 🙂
It happened in 1994.
3 of 5? Wow. Before my time. I’ll research it.
http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2009/15th-anniversary-of-the-great-fullerton-recall/
I know in this town filled with greedy, nitwit chuckleheads, especially amoungest your kind- the thought of someone actually wanting to be a decent person and not having a selfish agenda is like a bear who wont shit in the woods.
But, there are actually folk like that out there, they will always have alot of support and the most important thing of all, wont split hell wide open-unlike you and yours.
Dick Ackerman has 35 years of experience in corporate, real estate, and business law. He assists companies, individuals, groups, and public agencies in their interactions with governments at the local, county, state, and federal levels.
In addition, Mr. Ackerman assists clients in dealing with government and special districts on how to get through the political process.
That’s all fancy talk for lobbyist/bag man.
PR Flack
OOh I can write trite bullshit to make a turd into gold, can I have your job?
What’s up with all the creepy dirty old men running everything? Halloween is over. You guys think the costumes work all year?
How about subsidising the low income housing projects with a FPD work release program that puts the inmates on the job-site of these housing projects…..they get a 30 day sentence and they agree to work for 15 days and they get to go home…jail time is cut in half, city gets cheap labor for low income housing and everybody wins.
Good idea. Problem is that 30 day sentence equals zero time now. No one does any time unless they get a year, and then they do like a month. So work release now is more of your hardcore sentences, which brings about safety, etc. Tough times.
Welllll, they have work release in Arizona and it works like a charm, inmates sign up and I think they like the swap of time and work…the safety issue has not stopped them.
You seem to be such a naysayer …what’s up with that?
Would you be willing to oversee a work release program if it benefited the city? Arpaio makes it work so it’s “doable”.
Arizona is no where near California. You should know that. California just got worse too. Yea, I would do that if I was in Arizona. A perfect example was the immigration law in Arizona. You would never see that in California. That right there should show you how big of a difference there is between California and Arizona.
California is in big trouble crime wise in the next 10 years. No jail time. Bad guys know this. They can do a felony now and get less than a year for sure. Why not risk it now? Break into a house 10 times and get caught the 11th time and do less than a year? Bargain. California is in big trouble. That’s why Cooley tried to make the point so clear in the Murray case.
I don’t think this would have happened in Arizona;
http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/28/us/cartel-kingpin-twins/index.html
I know all about SB1070 and those I talked to during that time said their friends were leaving when that was signed.
I definitlely agree California is in big trouble on many levels.
Here you go Reality Is: any thoughts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1tfIKUZ0fY
I love it. I think it’s the best run system in the world.
Problem is no politician would ever try it anymore. Sheriff’s are elected out here, they are politicians. They can’t take any risks like this or on illegal immigration, or anything else.
I think it’s great but you have to remember that Arizona is doing time still. California let’s everyone out now for free.
Cooley is a bonafide douche bag. Which he made very apparent during his Dewey speech against AG Harris. RI have you lived in AZ? Have you had the Sheriff Joe and tent city experience? My guess is NO. Even though I personally haven’t but I did in AZ for enough time to wholly understand his operations are civil liberties violations from start to finish.
I have a house in AZ and have toured and met him. He’s extreme but it works. I feel it’s legal and so does much of Arizona. He fights hard for it and is being slammed with lawsuits and investigations. He will fight until he does. You don’t see that anymore due to politics.
You may feel that way but like everything else, not everyone does so it continues.
Having a house and living there are two totally different things. And the masses go along with his tyranny because they are afraid of deportation and ICE. Seriously doing the dime tour of Maricopa’s finest always begins with a smile from Sheriff Joe. Green bologna, pink clothing and 102°F heat does NOT prevent relapse and ALWAYS brings them back. It’s an endless money making machine.
Copy. That’s where we differ. California prisons, jails, and sentences are broken. We will all pay soon.
Decriminalize all drugs and we have an entire new outlook on criminals and their keepers. Less is more.
You mean the new homes off Valencia in the barrio? Carpet bagger no mas. How convenient for this CB to receive funding for something that may be deemed illegal in January. A bunch of sneaky snakes.
No on Santa Fe – right near booze alley.
That’s still the barrio lol…you can put lipstick on a pig and it still makes it a pig.
and they all turn to bacon when rubbed. 🙂
hey,
three stooges were funny, these mother fuckers are just sad
1994 is before your time RI?
You can’t be that young. Yes?
I was a cop but fairly new.
prob a bitch explorer
Nope. Never did any of that as a kid. 🙂
WAS!!!! What are you now? You must be very young. I know, one of Uncle Dick’s aliens.
Was & still am. 🙂
Old now. 43
just a baby still…wait til you hit your 50’s and need readers for these blogs…
I hear ya.
I was thinking about playing a sound bite of the 3 Stooges when the council members first come out at the next city council meeting.
However, that would be disrespectful the the originals.
Why is it so easy to fack up when your typing on this blog?
It’s OK Wrong Guy, I’m sure everyone here knows what you meant to tipe, hehe…
What’s cloud computing? Is it, like, bad?
Depends. If you’ve seen the Cheech and Chong movie “Up In Smoke” where they’re smoking a joint in the car and end up in the median, well, dude that’s like cloud computing, man! Check it out:
http://www.zappinternet.com/video/bulQcaKnuW/cheech-amp-chong-up-in-smoke
Watched it, Enjoyed the flash back. Thank you. Foos. And Yes, I remember when…
And if you followed the hirsute antics of The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers (cloud comics?) the laughter was painful!
One of the original PSAs (public service announcements) courtesy of Fat Freddy:
“Keed Spills! err..
Peed Skills! uh..
Speed Kills!!!”
Best laugh EVAH!
Ah, man! I put the wrong one up. Here’s what I meant to do!
http://youtu.be/RX_Wuvya0iU
Those were the good ol’ days.
Have you run into this in the FPD locker room yet?
http://www.kpho.com/story/15981315/teens-using-vodka-tampons-to-get-drunk
Foolerton sucks PERIOD!
Good bars & fun place to party. Just leave at 1am to avoid all the fights lol.
but I respect your opinion
I’ve seen it all and done it all. I understand all aspects of this whole process pretty well. I see all sides and understand all sides. I’ve dealt with extreme activists and learned about them long ago. I see eye to eye with the public. Not much can get me riled up anymore. It’s not really worth it. Life is too good and too short for that.
Everyone knows your name is passed around like a cheap bottle of wine from one shift to the next. Your presence on this blog is equivalent to following someone around town, everywhere they go.
So, Mr I’ve Seen It All And Done It All, take your superior attitude to the courthouse when Cicinelli and Ramos get the gavel shoved up their butt. You’re no nice guy, you’re an asshole by trade. I’ll wait to post further till the other Reality Is comes back on.
LOL Love It!! Xoxo 🙂
R.I. had a shift change. The R.I. you like to read will be here next shift, maybe. R.I. has many brains, some are funny, some are to young, some are aged, some are assholes. But all the R.I.’s have big egos….
Pretty funny. Always the same ol’ me.
I don’t have an ego!! 🙂
Everyone has an ego, just not as big as yours. 🙂
He’s compensating!
Darn right!
R.I. is “phishen”.
Hmmmmm tuna?
True. But the reality of that happening in our lives is zero.
God this place cracks me up…
@RI: You are correct in that once the recall goes through there will need to be viable candidates to fill those seats, and I too wonder what the outcome will be. I just hope it gets better here and not more of the same. We shall see.
You put up with a lot of crap on here, and it always amuses me that you keep coming back…and I appreciate your take on a lot of it so please don’t stop.
At the end of the day I don’t think anyone will argue that there needs to be far reaching changes here in Fullerton, but I do share your concerns as well. Time will tell, and we shall see.
Rumor has it that I might be at the council meeting tomorrow just to toss it out there. 🙂
It is a funny place.
I think the odd part is that I’m one of the actual truth speaking cops. One from the other side. One that everyone hates. I enjoy the debates. I appreciate and understand the other side.
I actually never thought I would be here this long. The Kelly case interested me from day one. Still does. So far everything I have predicted has happened and played out just as I predicted.
I want to see Fullerton recover. I hope the anti police people can hope the same but to do so they will need to allow healing and change, and have confidence that it will be happening.
I’ve seen great police and community leaders in my time. I think Fullerton can get one and move forward, and become a great police department in the future.
Wish I could make it. 🙂
“I think Fullerton can get one and move forward”.
RI, who do you think would be a great police and community leader?
I could think of several. We will wait and see if they decide to go outside first. I haven’t heard much about Hamilton. I think he Is using the politician style of be nice and quiet and things just kinda blow away. We will always have the normal everyday pissed off at the world people, yelling at city council meetings. But as you can see, the less people say the quieter it gets.
I hope you’re right R.I. I didn’t even know we had a problem here, until last July. I can only hope that if I needed a officier for help, that they would be there. BTW I did know the 3 councilmen needed to go a long time ago.
For the record I am not anti-police. But you have to agree that drastic changes are needed, not only in this town but across the board. If I have my way that will happen, and I sincerely hope you stick around to type about it.
Copy. I think it’s easy for people to be anti police in times like these.
Its too hard to tell how much change needs to be made in Fullerton. I think that will be known after the Gennaco report is completed.
I’m not completely sold on the fact that the department was a department of corruption. The cases that have come forward only sell the possibility that the discipline levels were low. The final report will be very interesting to read.
“We’re going to conduct a thorough investigation and if there were any actions that weren’t justified, then that will come out in that investigation.”
~Sgt. Andrew Goodrich commenting on the Kelly Thomas incident
It can”t!!
ffff disagrees with you! 🙂
Because of the lack of discipline with some of the officers on FPD, now Ramos and Cicinelli have to work twice as hard to prove their innocence. The public is upset about the other things that went on at FPD and now Ramos and Cicinelli are the brunt of it.
Brunt? That’s funny! Not!
how ya holdin up, Hog Wild?
Because of the lack of discipline with some of the officers on FPD, now Ramos and Cicinelli have, under the color of authority, acted as judge and jury and MURDERED a defenseless, unarmed, innocent, drug and alcohol free, mentally ill, homeless man named Kelly Thomas- who was screaming in horrible agony, “I’m sorry,” “I can’t breathe,” “Dad”
They kicked, bludgeoned, punched and Tasered Kelly Thomas to death. They put Kelly in a prone choke hold and they collapsed his lung which filled with blood. Kelly was crushed and suffocated by several officers who had all dogpiled on top of him. Kelly was Tasered repeatedly and knee dropped onto his his face and neck.
Mentally ill Kelly Thomas was threatened with a severe beating.
According to the D.A., “Ramos knew Kelly Thomas from prior contacts. He did not believe Kelly Thomas posed him any risk. Thomas was shirtless with a backpack wearing pants with no obvious bulges. The officers did not think he needed to be patted down. While Ramos’ partner went through Thomas’ backpack, Ramos gave Thomas instructions. His instructions were to sit with his legs out with his hands on his knees. It would be obvious to any reasonable observer that Thomas had congitive issues and had problems following Ramos’ instructions. After several minutes, Ramos escalated the contact into a physical altercation.
Ramos made a deliberate showing of putting on latex gloves in front of Kelly Thomas. He stood over Kelly Thomas and repeatedly said to put his hands on his knees. Thomas would put his hands back and fold his legs. Ramos stood over Kelly Thomas with a pair of latex gloves and he made a demonstration while he was standing over Kelly Thomas of putting on those gloves in a menacing manner. When he put the gloves on, he ordered Kelly Thomas, “Put your hands on your f-ing knees.” He leaned over Thomas in a menacing way. He made fists. He put his fist in Thomas’ face and said, “See my fists? They’re getting ready to F you up.”
By making this declaration of violence against Kelly Thomas, Ramos instilled in that victim fear for his life. Fear of a police officer who wanted to F him up with his fists. Police officers have a right to force. But, citizens have a right to self defense in the face of excessinve force. Ramos took this contact from lawful use of detention to unlawful use of excessive force when he raised his fist. Ramos then grabbed Kelly Thomas by his arm. Thomas starated taking steps away from Ramos. Then a baton came out. Kelly Thomas put his hads up, palms out, in a defensive position. Palms open. Ramon yelled at Kelly Thomas, “Get on the ground.” The other officer came running out from behind his car to assist with the arrest that officer Ramos was doing.
The physical altercation began as officer Ramos swung his baton and chased Kelly Thomas. He punched Thomas in the ribs several times on the ground. He put his hand on KellyThomas’ neck for leverage. He held him for other officers to use their force on Kelly Thomas. Wolfe kneed him and tackled him. Cicinelli arrived at the scene at 8:45 p.m. and kneed Kelly Thomas twice in the head. He used his taser four times on Thomas.”
Thomas’ numerous pleas of “I’m sorry,” “I can’t breathe,” “Help,” “Dad,” were all to no avail. Kelly Thomas not responding when the blows to his face occurred? No help. The growing pool of blood? No help. Ramos is charged with murder for creating this dangerous situation that placed Kelly Thomas’ life in jeopardy and for placing the responding officers in that situation.
Ramos had to know he was creating a situation where Kelly Thomas would fear for his life. Ramos knew that the other officers would come to his aid and assist in applying force to Kelly Thomas. Ramos knew when he did that that Kelly Thomas was going to be hurt, Badly hurt.”
There were two HUGE pools of blood on the ground where Kelly was murdered that night. Cicinelli bragged about the severe beating he gave to Kelly Thomas.
After Kelly was already unconscious, Cicinelli methodically and carefully aimed each vicious blow of the butt end of his Taser to Kelly’s face- EIGHT times. These blows to Kelly’s face broke bones deep inside Kelly’s face, which caused massive bleeding and caused Kelly to choke on his own blood.
The officers did not give any first aid to Kelly Thomas. The ambulance did not transport Kelly to the hospital for at least 17 minutes, while they waited for someone from the FPD to arrive on the scene. Kelly’s heart stopped twice on the way to the hospital. Kelly was brain dead when he arrived at the hospital. Kelly’s life support was disconnected five days later.
The more detail of that murder is released the more I thank God for what’s going to happen to the police. Absolutely disgusting.
Hey Hog Wild-was just going over your comment-just a quick question, what do you mean “because of the lack of discipline with some of the officers on FPD” did someone(s) say something re Ramos/Cicinelli? just curious
thanks
Yeah, well ya murder a man and ya got some brunt coming your way.
As you say, brunt isn’t always a bad thing these days.
You sure veg at the computer a lot. Our tax dollars at work?
Nope. Just enjoying my vacations.
And don’t forget that FFFF says Reality Is is actually 10 cops taking turns in the basement of Fullerton PD monitoring and getting information on the FFFF group. 🙂
No they don’t. They think you’re one cop in Pomona named O’Malley with too much time on your hands. 🙂
Oh yea forgot about that one too. There has been so many I forgot about that one. I did tell him you said hello though. He giggled. 🙂
Say hi to Dave Ellis, too.
You’re exaggerating. But to answer your charge, no one believes your presence on this blog is merely for your entertainment. Everyone knows it’s to provide a presence – a police kiosk on the blog. It wouldn’t be offensive if your presence was for your entertainment, but it’s so obvious it’s not that you look ridiculous insisting that it is.
You remind me of a bunny rabbit hiding behind a twig.
I feel better then knowing you do love me for who I am. I enjoy your company and entertainment.
You’re the one who keeps bringing up the ‘L’ word. It’s obvious you’re attempting to use that in some type of psychological ploy, but your fascination with the topic shows you have a lack of it in your life.
Obviously your father was cold and distant, and probably sent the pointed end of his boot up your insolent ass many times. Justice for All nailed you with his profile, especially the part about behavior problems and sexual perversions. Were you a child prostitute? Do you know what happened to Johnny Gosch?
Exactly right. And, I believe that he is very well paid to do it, by all of our tax dollars. Absolutely pathetic.
Swear I’m not. I am what I am. Real thing.
Uh huh, good try. Cops are “allowed to lie.” Apparently, they lie so much that they don’t even know they are doing it. And, being the sociopaths that they are, they still sleep very well at night.
You are hurting my feelings. Cops are people too. 🙁
Profile of the Sociopath
Glibness and Superficial Charm
Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as “their right.”
Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
Incapacity for Love
Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others’ feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet “gets by” by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others’ lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.
Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
That isn’t the way it was meant.
“Because of the lack of discipline with some of the officers on FPD, now Ramos and Cicinelli have to work twice as hard to prove their innocence. The public is upset about the other things that went on at FPD and now Ramos and Cicinelli are the brunt of it.”
“now Ramos and Cicinelli have to work twice as hard to prove their innocence”
The assumption is that Cicinelli and Ramos are innocent, and that one’s difficult for me.
hahahahhhaaha innocent! hahhahhaha murderers
This bears repeating
Were you and these motherfuckers raised in a goat fart? who thinks like this? I used to read stories in the bible during sunday school about the devils followers that sounded just like this
Listen here, FPD etc. you are being scrutinized -every last loathsome, rule breakin, lying, greed lovin, donut eating, ipad stealing, drug addicted, murdering one of you-and no one is forgetting you old crypt keeping godfathers in city council or the butt nuggets that hired you without so much of a thought to the welfare and safety for the Fullerton citizens-keep trying to cover for yourselves and your “brothers” – the truth is the truth, you are making yourself look more and more like the magilla gorillas that you are-go peel some bananas with your feet.
innocent! yeah and Im Frank Sinatra
LOL sexy hot!!
Hey Missing Chip, you are missing a chip!
ohohoh good one, him made a funny from my alias – me feelings are hurt by the uneducated baby baboon troll…booo
Baboon? Yikes!!
DISEASE IS A DYLEXIA
That’s ok Missing… I know you can’t help yourself. Name calling make you feel better about yourself? Or was baboon referring to your family heritage?
Watching livestream of NYPD taking out Occupy NYC. Crazy. Bulldozers and cranes taking all the tents and shit right into big dump trucks. Figured it was gonna happen everywhere. Interesting.
“Interesting.” ???
what a sad choice of words
send them to fema camps
Swear them in as Fullerton cops. 🙂
Up early?
He just happens to be on this blog 24/7. Just for amusement. Right.
I wish “I” could clone myself like that.
You just did.
Cute!
Up late.
If people think the FPD can be reformed, you are naive and being slowly suckered into supporting business as usual.
Disband the FPD and contract with the OCSD .
Sounds like an easy solution but you may not like that option long term at all. Ask around.
Reality Is stated earlier: “Not much can get me riled up anymore. It’s not really worth it. Life is too good and too short for that.”
That is an extremely admirable and valuable trait RI. I’ll bet your blood pressure is quite normal and your health is good overall due to that.
I’m getting better at that myself with age and the more challenges I endure.
However I still get riled up when I hear about abuse of authority cases, particularly within law enforcement.
Yea I hear ya. I do too actually.
🙂
funny you think I know Dave Ellis. I just asked who you thnk I am about Dave Ellis and he has no clue either. Just odd you think I’m Dave Ellis or work for him or post for him or know him.
Yeah, sure you did. 🙂
🙂 🙂
For a while I thought you were Mr. McKinnley until I figured he had to be older than 43… hmm
I have 10 clones.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-704150?hpt=hp_t2
The PD seem to be showing remarkable restraint.Can you imagine if those were all fullerton instead of NYPD cops.
You know we are still waiting for one good cop to speak out on behalf of us citizens that pay you guys right?
If you are as real as you claim to be you should step up.
Let’s analyze that request. Before I say anything, what exactly would you expect? From who? And what? When?
analyze? analyze what? just talk, say something from the heart, if you have one-you talk on here like you want the right things, like you are so clever and in the know, so stand up and talk-out loud about how crappy this is-the coverups, the beating and suffering these cops put a person thru until he died for nothing, say something about the cop that put his finger in womens pussy’s who were handcuffed-say something about how all this and more have been covered up and the fact that the Kelly Thomas case would have passed by quietly if a stink wasnt made, you wont cause inside you dont think any of your “bros” did anything wrong-and really, the “Reality is” you dont give a fuck.
That’s why I said it like that. I expected responses just like you both provided, obviously. They aren’t bad responses, just your opinions of what you expect.
Yes, I said analyze. As you know I speak truths. I say it like it is, as close to reality as possible from the perspective you have no clue about. Your view, government leader’s views, police views, citizen’s views, criminal’s views, FFFF views, Kelly’s army view, victim’s views, and business owner’s views all differ for obvious reasons. We were all raised differently, educated differently, embarked on different careers, specialized in certain areas, became professionals in certain areas, became victims of certain crimes, committed certain crimes, or witnessed certain events. All of this contributes to how we all view each and every event that takes place in this world daily.
You could take almost every incident or event and if you survey 100 people you will never get everyone to provide the same answer or opinion. People that specialize in a field can provide deep analysis of why everyone should view the incident their way, but others won’t even listen to that person or take anything that person says to heart because of their view based on their personal experiences.
I guess that’s why we vote in our government leader’s right? They are supposed to make the right decisions for what they feel is the majority in the community? Appoint or hire people that represent the same?
Over the years, those people began to answer to money and make decisions for the wrong reasons. This put doubt in people’s minds. Now we are in the position we are due to those bad decisions.
Author: vw type 53a
Comment:
I want to hear a LEO, a beat cop specifically, stand up and state that they believe that there are problems within the LE community.
I want to hear a LEO come forward and say that KT was murdered and that it shouldn’t have happened.
I want a police force that looks out for their community and I want at least one of you to back me up.
…Copy?
Yes, I copy loud and clear. I asked because I wanted to see if you and others actually still expected a response like that.
The reality of you getting a request even close to that is zero. Will never, ever happen. Hard to believe? Probably so. If you really believe that you would get a response like that then you would find it hard to believe that you would never get one even close to that.
The Fullerton Kelly incident provided a perfect platform for any cop or employee to step forward and speak up. This employee could have been a cop or employee that felt the city and police department have a pattern of corruption, poor or criminal management, or a lack of discipline from top to bottom. They could have come forward for a variety of reasons. This is also the perfect and common time for a disgruntled employee to come forward and make all kinds of statements, or even just make things up if he wants. It happens all the time. Hire a good attorney, and that attorney will take 10% of fact, add 90% of lies and BS, hold a press conference, and get most people to hear a small portion of the press conference and provide that small bit of doubt that it could be true. Then sue the world, go off on stress, and get their stress retirement, sworn or civilian, and never have to work there again.
The fact that no one stepped up says something. I don’t think it says that they are scared to step up and speak about a department and city full of corruption, bad management, etc when they have the perfect opportunity. Is it because they feel the department is a good department and city, and this is an isolated incident that they will be handled appropriately? Who knows.
So to expect a LE officer or a beat cop to step up and say that there are problems with the LE community is absurd and not even close to realistic. Yes, there will always be isolated incidents of human error in law enforcement, just like any other profession. That’s what investigations and discipline is for. Officers and other employees expect those errors and mistakes to be investigated, addressed, and proper discipline rendered. That’s the honest to God truth as much as you don’t want to believe that. So you will never hear someone step up and say that. Every cop has seen cops get fired many times. We all know that a mistake could cost us our career. To think otherwise, wouldn’t be realistic.
You won’t hear a cop step up and say that Kelly was murdered because most cops don’t know the facts of the case. I think most cops will tell you that they don’t feel those cops went out that night wanting to murder Kelly or anyone else. I don’t think they wanted to murder him even as the last strike was done. Most cops will say that clearly mistakes were made. Taking into account the facts known, it’s not as cut and dry as you want it to appear. When cops are pro active, not here because this was a call for service, they get involved in chases, fights, shootings, tasers, batons, and all kinds of other incidents. If you were to provide a general synopsis of the event and have 100 people give their opinion, you would get 100 different answers across the spectrum. It’s impossible to render an opinion without all the facts, and it’s very easy to render an opinion knowing nothing about the training, policies, and laws related to the profession.
So I think most cops would tell you that the Kelly incident clearly had issues. Clearly it was a tragedy. Clearly it needs to be investigated and if officers did wrong, they need to be punished. Without being there and knowing all the facts, no officer or government official will ever come out and say that he was murdered.
I think more police departments love their communities and enjoy their jobs, much more than you think. That’s what I enjoy most about the job, interacting with the businesses, the residents, the kids, the elderly, the schools, and everything else about the community. I enjoy addressing continuous issues in the communities more than anything. Providing extra patrols, plain cars, zero tolerance, and other methods to rid certain areas of problems. Of course, this won’t make everyone happy because focused patrols cause problems for the people being looked at, but overall, the problem is resolved and a large sector of the community is happy and enjoyed the positive police experience and contact.
I think Fullerton PD also looks out for their community. I think the downtown area, or any downtown area with bars and kids, is going to have its issues on a continuous basis. Kids and alcohol aren’t a good combination. There will always be drunk people, always be fights, and always be people that want to fight citizens and cops. That’s where force is going to be used, people aren’t going to be happy, and people are going to go to jail. It’s a negative situation all the way around. That’s where the ABC enforcement and grant funds come into play, to educate the bars on proper consumption, and if they don’t play the game right, their license will be suspended or revoked. Problem bars or businesses are very easy to shut down if they don’t want to play.
If you take those 100 people and stand them all downtown, then let the drunks come out and talk their shit, start fighting, cops roll up, and things are handled appropriately. Video taken. Now put those 100 people in a room to discuss it and you will get 100 different opinions on what should have been done and how. That’s the reality of everything these days.
Comment:
analyze? analyze what? just talk, say something from the heart, if you have one-you talk on here like you want the right things, like you are so clever and in the know, so stand up and talk-out loud about how crappy this is-the coverups, the beating and suffering these cops put a person thru until he died for nothing, say something about the cop that put his finger in womens pussy’s who were handcuffed-say something about how all this and more have been covered up and the fact that the Kelly Thomas case would have passed by quietly if a stink wasnt made, you wont cause inside you dont think any of your “bros” did anything wrong-and really, the “Reality is” you dont give a fuck.
Not true. You are venting based on your sole opinions, with very little facts. I respect that. You have anger toward this and other police/government situations worldwide. It’s the era we are in.
I addressed the Kelly incident before. I don’t think it was a coverup. I think that the PD was going to investigate the incident and I think people would have been disciplined if wrong doing was found. The extent or outcome will never be known because of the direction the case took. That’s all great.
As I said before, if you were to open up any city or police department right now, you would find the same number of human errors or mistakes as Fullerton. That’s reality! Human’s will always make errors or mistakes in any profession, including policework, city leadership, Doctors, lawyers, and every other job, tax paid or not. Yes, Fullerton PD has made some mistakes. The video camera slapped out of the hand and the Rincon touching girls, those are mistakes that need to be investigated and disciplined appropriately! Without knowing all the facts, and without knowing the history at the PD, it’s hard to say if things were being done right or wrong.
There have been numerous times over the years where a cop was off injured for almost a year. They would come back and get hurt again. You knew they weren’t in this job for the right reason, and they needed to get out. You always wondered about their injuries, but investigations were done and they were medically retired and never seen again. Sad, but there are those types of people in this world that just want to take the easy way out.
If you ever get the chance, watch The Academy series. It’s on Itunes. It’s about 10 shows of 1 hour each. It’s very real. It’s the LA Sheriff’s Department academy in Whittier and they basically follow them around for the entire academy. You will get a real life feel for the training, the classroom stuff, the scenarios, but most of all the people. You will see what kind of people get hired, start the academy, where they come from, who makes it, who doesn’t, and other tidbits that I really think show people that know nothing about policework and training, a little idea of what they go through.
I really think the Gennaco report will be interesting and important. I think he will do a good job and if allowed free access to everything and anything in the PD, top to bottom, he should be able to paint a perfect picture of the history of the PD and any issues he finds. I’m really interested to see if he finds that the discipline rendered over the years is inconsistent and too minor. There isn’t a table that dictates discipline, POST doesn’t issue a chart to show how much for this or that, this level for first and second offense, it’s really up to the command staff of each police department. I’ve been through many Chiefs and each has their own style of discipline. Some harsh, no second chances, some easier with that second chance. Most of those made it very clear that if you screw up again, you are gone. Confidence needs to be placed in the eventual chosen leader for Fullerton to do the right thing, and lead that PD into the future.
The other interesting topic of discussion is POBAR. That’s something that people on here, and some in the community don’t understand. The Police Officer’s Bill of Rights. It’s too complex and lengthy to lay out there, but the history of it makes sense. Politicians and city leaders with agendas would do what they want, when they want, anytime they wanted without POBAR. Each time a Chief, Mayor, City Council member, or anyone else has tried to flex and say F**K Pobar, I’m doing this way because I think it’s right, the courts have punished them and they have paid dearly. These instances are mostly when someone rushes to judgment and doesn’t weigh all the facts of a case. So many cops I know have been terminated and ended up a year or two later getting their job back with back pay and benefits. This all decided by an outside, independent arbitrator or judge. It’s a crazy process, the discipline process, but POBAR is very important and won’t go away. Each section has a history behind it, case law supporting it, and is important to provide a fair process to police officers doing their jobs.
Pensions and Pay. It’s funny because until the last 3-4 years, people always said cops will never be rich, they are just fairly compensated for the job they do. I always felt the same way. I’ve never needed money but I’ve always enjoyed the job. I enjoy going to work everyday, I enjoy the community interaction, I enjoy the high intensity fights, battles, foot chases. I enjoy catching bad guys. I enjoy making the community safer when I hear the judge sentence the bad guy to life in prison. I enjoy all of it. I also enjoy police management. I enjoy teaching cops the right way to do the job. The right way to follow laws, policies, and the right way to have community interaction. Public perception is so crucial in this era. Stopping to say hello to people in their yards, walking up and down the business district. The small things make such a difference. I’m able to instill that in my people, and it makes me smile when citizens call commending the officers for doing a good job, or thanking me for sending them to their party or community event. So knowing the citizens felt that I wasn’t highly paid, but fairly compensated, was fine. Good job, enjoying the job, it’s worth it.
I’m not odd in the way I feel either. Police leaders want a happy community. They want the citizens satisfied with their police force. They want citizens to have confidence in the jobs their cops are doing daily. They want confidence in the investigative process. They want confidence in the fact that discipline will be rendered and handed down fairly if the cops make mistakes.
The problem is that in many cases, no matter how much you educate someone on the facts of a case, show them video, show them witness statements, show them evidence, and everything else, they will still never waiver from their original opinion of what occurred. So then they lose that confidence, and then it’s all a big cover up or corruption, and no one is doing their jobs right. So what’s the answer at that point.
Pensions, forgot to touch on that. Most cops will honestly tell you that when they got hired, and through their 15th or so year of work, they never even looked at what a pension or retirement was. I didn’t know much about my retirement until a few years ago. Over the years, the city and the negotiators would go back and forth. Small raises, no raises, some benefits, etc. For many years, I didn’t even know what the MOU said. It was just part of my job, and came with the work. To say that anyone in this FFFF blog, or in the community, or in this world, would say at that time they would have fought as an employee not to get a raise, or a benefit, is a lie. We all work for a living, we hope to enjoy our jobs and professions, and we hope to get raises or benefits that are fair and equal.
We are now in a new era. Everything is broken. Money was wasted top to bottom by everyone. That includes country leaders, state leaders, city leaders, all the way down to you and I. If we all had known this day would come, we all would have done things differently.
Now changes are being made. I think they are being made fairly, and they are being made to cause the least amount of impact on the communities and employees. Drastic changes will only happen when that’s the only option. That’s not the only option. Politics is in full swing. Smoke screens are being put up everywhere. It’s deciphering what is fact and fiction that’s hard at this point. Saving money, balancing budgets, cutting workers. It’s all tragic, hard work, but it’s reality now.
Police work hasn’t changed much over the years. The laws are the same. Crime goes up and down. Police cases of abuse come and go. I don’t think there are any more cases now than 20 years ago. The social media network has made the exchange of information much easier. We are all made aware of police cases much quicker, which is good and bad. More often than not, only a small fact of a case is distributed, and rampant opinions of the remaining facts are made which causes false information to spread. It is what it is. Bad information, combined with the facts, sometimes leads to protests, demands, and anger. Eventually, things calm down, facts are realized, the cases are investigated, and the final outcome is determined. Again, half the people are happy, half are angry.
We will never all be happy with anything that happens in this world. That’s reality and that’s where we are today and that’s why I’m typing this rambling novel. I enjoy life, I enjoy police work, I enjoy teaching cops the right way to do this job, I enjoy police management, I enjoy public relations, I enjoy fighting crime, I enjoy under cover operations, and I enjoy debates. I think that’s what drew me to this blog, and keeps me here today. This blog has died down in a huge way, as expected and as predicted, but the people left are adamant for their cause and truly feel they can obtain their ultimate goals. Watching that play out, making predictions as to how it will play out, and seeing the final result is the fun part. Attempting to open a mind just a little, as I have seen here daily, is rewarding and makes me realize how important educating as many people as possible in the communities is so important. Debating with all of you is fun too, and I enjoy it each day. I understand your viewpoints, I respect them, and I base mine on my education, experience, and knowledge of seeing or being involved in the same types of situations numerous times.
I look forward to more exchanges over the years. Good luck in your endeavors and goals. I will enjoy following them over the next 2-10 years. I always speak the truth, I am who I am, I don’t have any reason to lie, and I try to explain my views the best I can.
That’s the Reality. 🙂
I want to hear a LEO, a beat cop specifically, stand up and state that they believe that there are problems within the LE community.
I want to hear a LEO come forward and say that KT was murdered and that it shouldn’t have happened.
I want a police force that looks out for their community and I want at least one of you to back me up.
…Copy?
That’s why I said it like that. I expected responses just like you both provided, obviously. They aren’t bad responses, just your opinions of what you expect.
Yes, I said analyze. As you know I speak truths. I say it like it is, as close to reality as possible from the perspective you have no clue about. Your view, government leader’s views, police views, citizen’s views, criminal’s views, FFFF views, Kelly’s army view, victim’s views, and business owner’s views all differ for obvious reasons. We were all raised differently, educated differently, embarked on different careers, specialized in certain areas, became professionals in certain areas, became victims of certain crimes, committed certain crimes, or witnessed certain events. All of this contributes to how we all view each and every event that takes place in this world daily.
You could take almost every incident or event and if you survey 100 people you will never get everyone to provide the same answer or opinion. People that specialize in a field can provide deep analysis of why everyone should view the incident their way, but others won’t even listen to that person or take anything that person says to heart because of their view based on their personal experiences.
I guess that’s why we vote in our government leader’s right? They are supposed to make the right decisions for what they feel is the majority in the community? Appoint or hire people that represent the same?
Over the years, those people began to answer to money and make decisions for the wrong reasons. This put doubt in people’s minds. Now we are in the position we are due to those bad decisions.
Author: vw type 53a
Comment:
I want to hear a LEO, a beat cop specifically, stand up and state that they believe that there are problems within the LE community.
I want to hear a LEO come forward and say that KT was murdered and that it shouldn’t have happened.
I want a police force that looks out for their community and I want at least one of you to back me up.
…Copy?
Yes, I copy loud and clear. I asked because I wanted to see if you and others actually still expected a response like that.
The reality of you getting a request even close to that is zero. Will never, ever happen. Hard to believe? Probably so. If you really believe that you would get a response like that then you would find it hard to believe that you would never get one even close to that.
The Fullerton Kelly incident provided a perfect platform for any cop or employee to step forward and speak up. This employee could have been a cop or employee that felt the city and police department have a pattern of corruption, poor or criminal management, or a lack of discipline from top to bottom. They could have come forward for a variety of reasons. This is also the perfect and common time for a disgruntled employee to come forward and make all kinds of statements, or even just make things up if he wants. It happens all the time. Hire a good attorney, and that attorney will take 10% of fact, add 90% of lies and BS, hold a press conference, and get most people to hear a small portion of the press conference and provide that small bit of doubt that it could be true. Then sue the world, go off on stress, and get their stress retirement, sworn or civilian, and never have to work there again.
The fact that no one stepped up says something. I don’t think it says that they are scared to step up and speak about a department and city full of corruption, bad management, etc when they have the perfect opportunity. Is it because they feel the department is a good department and city, and this is an isolated incident that they will be handled appropriately? Who knows.
So to expect a LE officer or a beat cop to step up and say that there are problems with the LE community is absurd and not even close to realistic. Yes, there will always be isolated incidents of human error in law enforcement, just like any other profession. That’s what investigations and discipline is for. Officers and other employees expect those errors and mistakes to be investigated, addressed, and proper discipline rendered. That’s the honest to God truth as much as you don’t want to believe that. So you will never hear someone step up and say that. Every cop has seen cops get fired many times. We all know that a mistake could cost us our career. To think otherwise, wouldn’t be realistic.
You won’t hear a cop step up and say that Kelly was murdered because most cops don’t know the facts of the case. I think most cops will tell you that they don’t feel those cops went out that night wanting to murder Kelly or anyone else. I don’t think they wanted to murder him even as the last strike was done. Most cops will say that clearly mistakes were made. Taking into account the facts known, it’s not as cut and dry as you want it to appear. When cops are pro active, not here because this was a call for service, they get involved in chases, fights, shootings, tasers, batons, and all kinds of other incidents. If you were to provide a general synopsis of the event and have 100 people give their opinion, you would get 100 different answers across the spectrum. It’s impossible to render an opinion without all the facts, and it’s very easy to render an opinion knowing nothing about the training, policies, and laws related to the profession.
So I think most cops would tell you that the Kelly incident clearly had issues. Clearly it was a tragedy. Clearly it needs to be investigated and if officers did wrong, they need to be punished. Without being there and knowing all the facts, no officer or government official will ever come out and say that he was murdered.
I think more police departments love their communities and enjoy their jobs, much more than you think. That’s what I enjoy most about the job, interacting with the businesses, the residents, the kids, the elderly, the schools, and everything else about the community. I enjoy addressing continuous issues in the communities more than anything. Providing extra patrols, plain cars, zero tolerance, and other methods to rid certain areas of problems. Of course, this won’t make everyone happy because focused patrols cause problems for the people being looked at, but overall, the problem is resolved and a large sector of the community is happy and enjoyed the positive police experience and contact.
I think Fullerton PD also looks out for their community. I think the downtown area, or any downtown area with bars and kids, is going to have its issues on a continuous basis. Kids and alcohol aren’t a good combination. There will always be drunk people, always be fights, and always be people that want to fight citizens and cops. That’s where force is going to be used, people aren’t going to be happy, and people are going to go to jail. It’s a negative situation all the way around. That’s where the ABC enforcement and grant funds come into play, to educate the bars on proper consumption, and if they don’t play the game right, their license will be suspended or revoked. Problem bars or businesses are very easy to shut down if they don’t want to play.
If you take those 100 people and stand them all downtown, then let the drunks come out and talk their shit, start fighting, cops roll up, and things are handled appropriately. Video taken. Now put those 100 people in a room to discuss it and you will get 100 different opinions on what should have been done and how. That’s the reality of everything these days.
Comment:
analyze? analyze what? just talk, say something from the heart, if you have one-you talk on here like you want the right things, like you are so clever and in the know, so stand up and talk-out loud about how crappy this is-the coverups, the beating and suffering these cops put a person thru until he died for nothing, say something about the cop that put his finger in womens pussy’s who were handcuffed-say something about how all this and more have been covered up and the fact that the Kelly Thomas case would have passed by quietly if a stink wasnt made, you wont cause inside you dont think any of your “bros” did anything wrong-and really, the “Reality is” you dont give a fuck.
Not true. You are venting based on your sole opinions, with very little facts. I respect that. You have anger toward this and other police/government situations worldwide. It’s the era we are in.
I addressed the Kelly incident before. I don’t think it was a coverup. I think that the PD was going to investigate the incident and I think people would have been disciplined if wrong doing was found. The extent or outcome will never be known because of the direction the case took. That’s all great.
As I said before, if you were to open up any city or police department right now, you would find the same number of human errors or mistakes as Fullerton. That’s reality! Human’s will always make errors or mistakes in any profession, including policework, city leadership, Doctors, lawyers, and every other job, tax paid or not. Yes, Fullerton PD has made some mistakes. The video camera slapped out of the hand and the Rincon touching girls, those are mistakes that need to be investigated and disciplined appropriately! Without knowing all the facts, and without knowing the history at the PD, it’s hard to say if things were being done right or wrong.
There have been numerous times over the years where a cop was off injured for almost a year. They would come back and get hurt again. You knew they weren’t in this job for the right reason, and they needed to get out. You always wondered about their injuries, but investigations were done and they were medically retired and never seen again. Sad, but there are those types of people in this world that just want to take the easy way out.
If you ever get the chance, watch The Academy series. It’s on Itunes. It’s about 10 shows of 1 hour each. It’s very real. It’s the LA Sheriff’s Department academy in Whittier and they basically follow them around for the entire academy. You will get a real life feel for the training, the classroom stuff, the scenarios, but most of all the people. You will see what kind of people get hired, start the academy, where they come from, who makes it, who doesn’t, and other tidbits that I really think show people that know nothing about policework and training, a little idea of what they go through.
I really think the Gennaco report will be interesting and important. I think he will do a good job and if allowed free access to everything and anything in the PD, top to bottom, he should be able to paint a perfect picture of the history of the PD and any issues he finds. I’m really interested to see if he finds that the discipline rendered over the years is inconsistent and too minor. There isn’t a table that dictates discipline, POST doesn’t issue a chart to show how much for this or that, this level for first and second offense, it’s really up to the command staff of each police department. I’ve been through many Chiefs and each has their own style of discipline. Some harsh, no second chances, some easier with that second chance. Most of those made it very clear that if you screw up again, you are gone. Confidence needs to be placed in the eventual chosen leader for Fullerton to do the right thing, and lead that PD into the future.
The other interesting topic of discussion is POBAR. That’s something that people on here, and some in the community don’t understand. The Police Officer’s Bill of Rights. It’s too complex and lengthy to lay out there, but the history of it makes sense. Politicians and city leaders with agendas would do what they want, when they want, anytime they wanted without POBAR. Each time a Chief, Mayor, City Council member, or anyone else has tried to flex and say F**K Pobar, I’m doing this way because I think it’s right, the courts have punished them and they have paid dearly. These instances are mostly when someone rushes to judgment and doesn’t weigh all the facts of a case. So many cops I know have been terminated and ended up a year or two later getting their job back with back pay and benefits. This all decided by an outside, independent arbitrator or judge. It’s a crazy process, the discipline process, but POBAR is very important and won’t go away. Each section has a history behind it, case law supporting it, and is important to provide a fair process to police officers doing their jobs.
Pensions and Pay. It’s funny because until the last 3-4 years, people always said cops will never be rich, they are just fairly compensated for the job they do. I always felt the same way. I’ve never needed money but I’ve always enjoyed the job. I enjoy going to work everyday, I enjoy the community interaction, I enjoy the high intensity fights, battles, foot chases. I enjoy catching bad guys. I enjoy making the community safer when I hear the judge sentence the bad guy to life in prison. I enjoy all of it. I also enjoy police management. I enjoy teaching cops the right way to do the job. The right way to follow laws, policies, and the right way to have community interaction. Public perception is so crucial in this era. Stopping to say hello to people in their yards, walking up and down the business district. The small things make such a difference. I’m able to instill that in my people, and it makes me smile when citizens call commending the officers for doing a good job, or thanking me for sending them to their party or community event. So knowing the citizens felt that I wasn’t highly paid, but fairly compensated, was fine. Good job, enjoying the job, it’s worth it.
I’m not odd in the way I feel either. Police leaders want a happy community. They want the citizens satisfied with their police force. They want citizens to have confidence in the jobs their cops are doing daily. They want confidence in the investigative process. They want confidence in the fact that discipline will be rendered and handed down fairly if the cops make mistakes.
The problem is that in many cases, no matter how much you educate someone on the facts of a case, show them video, show them witness statements, show them evidence, and everything else, they will still never waiver from their original opinion of what occurred. So then they lose that confidence, and then it’s all a big cover up or corruption, and no one is doing their jobs right. So what’s the answer at that point.
Pensions, forgot to touch on that. Most cops will honestly tell you that when they got hired, and through their 15th or so year of work, they never even looked at what a pension or retirement was. I didn’t know much about my retirement until a few years ago. Over the years, the city and the negotiators would go back and forth. Small raises, no raises, some benefits, etc. For many years, I didn’t even know what the MOU said. It was just part of my job, and came with the work. To say that anyone in this FFFF blog, or in the community, or in this world, would say at that time they would have fought as an employee not to get a raise, or a benefit, is a lie. We all work for a living, we hope to enjoy our jobs and professions, and we hope to get raises or benefits that are fair and equal.
We are now in a new era. Everything is broken. Money was wasted top to bottom by everyone. That includes country leaders, state leaders, city leaders, all the way down to you and I. If we all had known this day would come, we all would have done things differently.
Now changes are being made. I think they are being made fairly, and they are being made to cause the least amount of impact on the communities and employees. Drastic changes will only happen when that’s the only option. That’s not the only option. Politics is in full swing. Smoke screens are being put up everywhere. It’s deciphering what is fact and fiction that’s hard at this point. Saving money, balancing budgets, cutting workers. It’s all tragic, hard work, but it’s reality now.
Police work hasn’t changed much over the years. The laws are the same. Crime goes up and down. Police cases of abuse come and go. I don’t think there are any more cases now than 20 years ago. The social media network has made the exchange of information much easier. We are all made aware of police cases much quicker, which is good and bad. More often than not, only a small fact of a case is distributed, and rampant opinions of the remaining facts are made which causes false information to spread. It is what it is. Bad information, combined with the facts, sometimes leads to protests, demands, and anger. Eventually, things calm down, facts are realized, the cases are investigated, and the final outcome is determined. Again, half the people are happy, half are angry.
We will never all be happy with anything that happens in this world. That’s reality and that’s where we are today and that’s why I’m typing this rambling novel. I enjoy life, I enjoy police work, I enjoy teaching cops the right way to do this job, I enjoy police management, I enjoy public relations, I enjoy fighting crime, I enjoy under cover operations, and I enjoy debates. I think that’s what drew me to this blog, and keeps me here today. This blog has died down in a huge way, as expected and as predicted, but the people left are adamant for their cause and truly feel they can obtain their ultimate goals. Watching that play out, making predictions as to how it will play out, and seeing the final result is the fun part. Attempting to open a mind just a little, as I have seen here daily, is rewarding and makes me realize how important educating as many people as possible in the communities is so important. Debating with all of you is fun too, and I enjoy it each day. I understand your viewpoints, I respect them, and I base mine on my education, experience, and knowledge of seeing or being involved in the same types of situations numerous times.
I look forward to more exchanges over the years. Good luck in your endeavors and goals. I will enjoy following them over the next 2-10 years. I always speak the truth, I am who I am, I don’t have any reason to lie, and I try to explain my views the best I can.
That’s the Reality. 🙂
“Hire a good attorney, and that attorney will take 10% of fact, add 90% of lies and BS, hold a press conference, and get most people to hear a small portion of the press conference and provide that small bit of doubt that it could be true. Then sue the world, go off on stress, and get their stress retirement, sworn or civilian, and never have to work there again.”
Obviously you haven’t had to hire an attorney to force the police department to turn over records that were hidden from the public because they would show a pattern of abuse and criminal activity by sworn officers. Your bias is understandable being that your job on here is as a PR hack to placate enraged citizens.
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“The fact that no one stepped up says something. I don’t think it says that they are scared to step up and speak about a department and city full of corruption, bad management, etc when they have the perfect opportunity. Is it because they feel the department is a good department and city, and this is an isolated incident that they will be handled appropriately? Who knows.”
You state that the fact no one stepped up says something, then say you don’t think it’s that they were afraid of retaliation, but then wonder out loud if it’s because they think it’s a great department. You should can the insincere neutrality and publicly admit your advocacy if you’re as honest as you claim to be.
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“It’s impossible to render an opinion without all the facts, and it’s very easy to render an opinion knowing nothing about the training, policies, and laws related to the profession.”
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You are venting based on your sole opinions, with very little facts.
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Without knowing all the facts, and without knowing the history at the PD, it’s hard to say if things were being done right or wrong.
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You will see what kind of people get hired, start the academy, where they come from, who makes it, who doesn’t, and other tidbits that I really think show people that know nothing about policework and training, a little idea of what they go through.”
This is a common theme in your posts: you know things that no one else on this blog knows. That goes to the heart of why love coming on here, isn’t it? It makes you feel special, and that’s why you’re a cop. You need the fawning adoration you get in public when you wear the uniform. It compensates for the low self-esteem you got from an old man who drank too much, who never had a kind word to say to you, and who never gave you any validation as a person. Aren’t you special? Now you’re Officer Friendly, just a few rungs below God, friend to all.
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” I enjoy life, I enjoy police work, I enjoy teaching cops the right way to do this job, I enjoy police management, I enjoy public relations, I enjoy fighting crime, I enjoy under cover operations, and I enjoy debates.”
Wow, I must be psychic! You just admitted what I said about you not two minutes ago! Awesome!
Do you are saying all cops are sociopaths? Got it. 🙂
Ooooopppps. GED stepped in. “SO”. 🙂
He simply asked you to state that what those cops did to Kelly Thomas was wrong. And you responded with the blog version of “War and Peace.” That’s obfuscation, and it’s further proof that you really don’t give a cat’s ass about what happened to Kelly Thomas. Where’s the love?
You are so correct. R.I. doesn’t give a rat’s *** about Kelly Thomas, nor about any other murder or abuse victim under color of authority. He just seems to find it interesting. R.I. stated in a post above, “The Kelly case interested me from day one.” To my knowledge, R.I. has never shown any true concern, true compassion, nor horror regarding the victims of crime and abuse by L.E.
R.I. is far too “cool as a cucumber” and much too “happy” and arrogant. No remorse at all. He definitely presents himself as a sociopath without any genuine feelings. He is as fake and condescending as they come.
R.I. will NEVER admit on this blog that Kelly’s civil rights were violated, nor that Kelly Thomas was abused, and certainly NEVER that Kelly was murdered by cops who bludgeoned him to death, even AFTER Kelly was already unconscious. Nope, Reality Is will never admit any of that- not even while using his alias, R.I., as a cover. But, he WILL spin his excuses all day and all night.
It’s very pathetic that the D.A. has managed to call it what it is- murder, but R.I. can’t quite bring himself to do the same. I believe the reason for this is because R.I. is a paid shill/information officer/PR man, (who is doing a terrible job by the way).
If R.I. were to ever admit that he thought a crime had been committed and that there were serious problems within L.E., he would be immediately fired from his cushy PR/slimy politician spin job that he currently has- blogging his bull**** at “Starbucks” all day and all night. Then, he’d have to go back out and actually do some real work.
Of course, don’t ever expect R.I. to ever actually do anything to help anyone, outside of waving or exchanging pleasantries with citizens, as part of his ongoing personal PR campaign. You will be most likely to find R.I. hanging out at the donut shops, or alternately, responding to a call- to help dog pile onto the next unarmed, homeless, mentally ill person, or, to shoot at the next person who dares to hold a garden hose nozzle.
It’s very disappointing to realize that our L.E. are so heartless and so self serving. All the smiley faces in the world will never be able to disguise his empty heart.
And you have shown from Day 1 you are a hardcore anti government, anti police activist. Nothing will ever change that. Ever. I accept that and expected nothing less in your reply.
Sometimes life just isn’t fair is it? You live life blaming the world for all your inabilities to have the world your way. Have you looked in the mirror lately? 🙂
The only person who has made me “anti-police” is YOU. My attitudes towards LE have changed dramatically after listening to all of your excuses.
Yes, I am anti LARGE, ever expanding, tyrannical government, socialism, communism and anarchism. I am pro the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
I am not any more of an “activist” than you are. I am a U.S. citizen and I find it to be my constitutional right and priviledge, and duty, to speak the truth. And, I resent your condescending attitude and characterization of citizens who express their opinions as “activists.”
When I look in the mirror, I see a heart that actually cares about people. You are a phony.
No, life isn’t fair. But, unlike you, I am not satisfied with the status quo. And, unlike you, I will not defend the status quo.
And that’s why the USA is the best place in the world to live, work, and dream. You have proven my point.
You have one view of your constitutional right and privilege, and I have mine. You have an opinion of me, I have an opinion of you. You can try to change some things, I can try to change some things. I can express my view on some things, you can express your view on some things.
In the end, we all walk away as “activists” in our own world wondering why things are changed to exactly how we want them or the constitution and bill of rights isn’t interpreted exactly as we interpret it.
You are only reconfirming my beliefs the more you speak. You refuse to waiver one inch in your beliefs, I’m more than willing to waiver each day when I learn or open my mind to other’s opinions and views.
You are perfect in your eyes. I’m no where near perfect in my eyes.
Good luck with your status quo fight. 🙂
Just more obfuscation, spin and PR. My comments above stand. You have no heart. You will never admit any problems or guilt within LE, nor towards Kelly Thomas.
Again. You spinning a web how you like to see it and putting words in my mouth. I see you exactly the same way you see me. 🙂
I said that you will never admit any problems or guilt within LE, nor towards Kelly Thomas. So far, you haven’t said anything to make me think differently.
Now we’re getting to the root of the problem. You seem to think you are privileged because you are a cop. You think you have more rights than citizens have. This is exactly why this thread is running – cops think they have the right to beat a harmless transient to death. Citizens have the right to submit to whatever criminal or insane commands anyone wearing a tin badge may issue. How special! Hope that works out for you if Fullerton is faced with an all-out, Rodney-fucking-King riot.
Reality Is: Thank you for taking the time to put all that out there, I feel I better understand where you are coming from. I agree with you on most of it as well, but it still disturbs me that no one in the LE community will say ANYTHING about the KT case. I have a good friend that works for Santa Ana (in fact he was the one that patted down Ron Thomas at the first pre-trial hearing but that’s neither here nor there). He and his partner (also a friend of mine) threw a Haloween party this year that I attended, and when the KT subject came up even they would not admit that it was out of control. That just bothers me…when something is so wrong on it’s face and a line like this gets drawn deviding the community from the police we have a big problem.
Again, thank you for sharing how you feel and see things, I appreciate it. :beer:
Simple question Reality Is, spare us the dissertation-but all bobble headed government workers who want to avoid any subjects will play the game of saying stuff that is off the subject and/or dance around the topic
Your lying bullshit and mocking of us is not appreciated whatsoever by me
Reality Is again forgetting to also explain the “thin blue line” and how it relates to cases such as this? A whole bunch of situations to be honest.
Reality Is forgetting to mention the countless cases of civil litigation out there, that have been filed by cops who have been retaliated against for being “HONEST” in many ways.
Don’t “rat” out a fellow cop or else? Circle the wagons with the rest of us or suffer the consequence.
A good commentary by Reality Is, but none the less many real world issues left out.
If there were that many cops out there who wish to stand beside those involved in this case, they would be doing so in large numbers.
Where are the cops just from Fullerton? We know one detective who set up a donations to get money for Ramos’s bail. Where are the rest of them?
They know more of the facts than anyone else. BECAUSE they are talking among themselves. Most of them know if these allegations against their fellow cops are baseless and without merit, a simple witch hunt by the DA,FBI.
Let them step forward and lay out their support for their fellow cops.
I submit they won’t by giving their actual names, because if things go badly they will have egg on their face, and their character will forever be questioned for making the wrong call.
Many of them already know things are bad and are going to get worse. SO they will remain silent and save FACE.
These brave officers who cheat death everyday and walk the tight rope of life are suddenly lost for words.
For Reality Is to suggest in their commentary that no one is speaking out in FPD all is well, they are happy with the system is FUNNY!!!
I’d REALLY like to hear that for myself. No one speaking out in support of FPD or for those involved in this scandal tells the opposite message that Reality Is trying to spin for the LE World.
Some of us know, we saw that when the cops in Riverside were thrown under the bus in the Tahesha Miller case. They shaved their heads in protest and went to the Riverside City Counsel to express their outrage at what had been done to their fellow cops.
That happened right after their Chief said on the news he was going to support his men, then shortly after that, threw them under the bus.
We didn’t see any thing like that with Chief Sellers, he simply abandon his burning and sinking ship without a word for his fellow crewman.
Reality Is doing a disservice to Law Enforcement by attempting to put a “spin” on some things thus far that can’t be explained away in the manner he or she is doing it.
I will reflect back on Reality Is commentary regarding Chief Adams from Upland PD, suggesting FPD hire him, but was NEVER specific when commenting he got screwed by the system.
Reality Is, if your so confident and brave in your commentary then use your REAL name and explain your credentials for all to know your qualified and have an impeccable character to speak on such issues.
(crickets again)
That’s not it at all but nice try. You are good at putting words in my mouth. I’ve enjoyed it.
So let’s say it’s because I’m a cop. Why do other people have different opinions on the constitution then? Why do judges have to make decisions and case law on how things should be interpreted? Oh wait. Because they are like cops and in a position of power? LOL
Nice try again though. Keep reaching.
I have something else I can put in your mouth you might enjoy more. Do you believe we are here talking to you because we respect you? No. We believe we have rights that we will demand be respected whether you want to respect them or not. We demand it from you a civil SERVANT, not a MASTER. When you figure that out you will get our respect. But not before.
I bet you would.
No, you don’t respect me. I know that. But you know some people here do right? 🙂
your rights are always respected. Stop saying they aren’t. You make up enough stuff the way it is.
I always respects everyone’s rights. There you go making things up again. Common theme.
I don’t want your respect. I want everyone else’s though. 🙂
I know some people respect you. They say they do. They have that choice. I have my choice too. You do not know what rights I have been denied. You think you do but you dont. I know how cops make a game of pestering someone until they force them to break a law, then they arrest them. Or they kill them. I know you are not as clean as you say you are.
LOL I can only imagine. I hope you seek help.
You should take your own advice. Your life would be much better.
Oxymoron? My own advice? Always baby.
I know you are not as clean as you say you are.
Furniture of Reality is correct about everything including you, Reality is-or rather, Reality is mocking everyone here.
Yo Reality Is, do you have any comments on ^that?
Didn’t see your post. Thanks.
If you read what I wrote, I touch on it a little bit. I really hate to monday morning quarterback anything, be in police related or real life related, if I wasn’t there or don’t know all the facts.
In this Kelly case, I said in my post that it was tragic, shouldn’t have happened, and if people did wrong they need to be punished.
How the case played out, isn’t cut and dry and the trial is going to be very very tough. Yes he was homeless. No he was not harmless. Yes he was detained. Yes he took off running. What happened from there will be shown in trial.
Let’s just say that in trial the video shows a very violent fight from both sides. A full out brawl and a fight that is coming from Kelly and the cops. If that’s the case, I think it will be very hard to find the cops guilty in this case.
So not knowing all the facts, I can’t say that anyone did anything wrong. That’s why you don’t hear many people that get involved in use of force cases on a daily basis making judgements or saying much about it. Yes, on face value it appears mistakes were made. How severe were they and will people go to jail? That’s up to a jury to decide after looking at facts, evidence, and testimony of professionals that deal with policies and police on a daily basis.
WTF? How severe were the mistakes? Someone died.
If six “trained” officers can’t take one skinny homeless guy into custody without beating him to death, then yes, they fucked up.
He was not harmless. He was a skinny guy without a shirt that did not have a weapon. He had some trash. I guess you were making a funny.
Ok fair enough, he could have probably dished out a nasty paper cut with that trash.
Point taken. But given the timeline, the information made public and the information withheld by the department it just makes no sense to me. There is a MURDER charge even without us normal people getting to see all of the evidence…does that say nothing? Couple that with the FBI going after three and not two and it paints an even clearer picture.
I understand your position, and I appreciate it for what it is, but the community counts on you to be above us not only for protection but honesty as well. My city was robbed of that on July 5th 2011, so in my eyes you need to be more open with us regarding stuff that goes wrong and be held accountable. We pay you to uphold your responsibility when you are wearing that uniform.
Am I crazy?
Just to feed the trolls, and to (hopefully) give everyone a a smile, look at this:
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/303708_275254715848943_100000932495906_744431_1855152445_n.jpg
Ooohh, shiny! 😀