Flight of the Slidebros
The quality of the bus depot surveillance footage on the night of Kelly Thomas’ beating is still a mystery, but here’s a demonstration of the low-light and zoom capabilities of that same camera taken on August 16th (including with some random zoom footage from an identical model camera obtained elsewhere.)
This camera is about 150 ft. away from the spot where the beating took place. In this example, the camera was aligned to capture the comings and goings of Slidebar patrons on a Tuesday night.
I think we (the public) need to be able to access through a continual live feed cameras at any location at any given time.
This has so many potential benefits; if someone saw a crime in progress, they could instantly report it.
I’m wondering about the legality of having a camera there. I’m think my civil rights are being violated by that camera.
If you are in a public place, you have no expectation of privacy and anyone can video tape you.
And let me just say, the SAME DAMN THING applies to cops too.
Booyah! So damn true, Drew. Oh, but I guess cops can have different expectations than us regular folks.
Grrrr. So sick of the double-standard.
Just because some hack in Sacramento wrote a law that we obey doesnt make it legal. We have a court system to determine interpretation and in this case I lose rights by the city placing a camera outside of business.
But I guess no one is worried about Big Brother, so I shall concede.
ACLU BROUGHT THE BOSTON POLICE TO COURT AND WON THE RIGHT TO VIDEO TAPE CORRUPT COPS. AS THE ANIMAL COPS TELL “IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE AGREE TO A SEARCH”
THEY ARE RUTHLESS MAGGOTS.
THOSE SIX ANIMALS ARE EXERCISING THE RIGHTS THEY CONDEMN US FOR HAVING.
IF THE ANIMAL COPS ARE INNOCENT SHOW THE TAPE AND AGREE TO QUESTONING.
STONE COLD PSYCHOS THEY ARE, THEY WILL WALK AND LAUGH AT US EVERYDAY THEY GIVE OUT MORE BEATINGS IN FULLERTON.
As they should if they are innocent.
You have always been able to video the cops. Look on you tube. Video away.
Did anyone find the so called real estate lady yet? 🙂
Fairly impressive camera. I wonder what a zoom looks like in low light/night environment.
Even more impressive: being able to examine the original, uncut, unfiltered, “unmolested” video from July 5.
A senior DA investigator took the original and only copy of the video home for “safe keeping”. Its widely known among the investigators working the case that he used a video editing program on a personal computer to greatly reduce the resolution of the video and darken the contrast.
He used a personal computer because he did not want to face the possibility of another agency recovering the original video from his DA computer.
The video was altered prior to them sharing it with federal investigators.
Why should the DA investigator delete possible evidence? mv vs cp? Are they that stupid? It is not a tape.
what does mv vs cp mean?
That was an error. I was listening to a lecture on file commands as I typed. It has nothing to do with this topic.
Unix DOS commands for move/copy. The move command deletes the source when the file is copied. The Copy command does not delete the source.
The fact is the video is certain to be a digital file, not a tape. There should be many copies of the file in existence at this point unless the original was deleted and a single copy was placed in the hands of a single individual.
Even deleting the original file from the source is not necessarily permanent. If the hard drive was seized it is possible that a deleted file could be recovered unless it has been overwritten (which is likely two months later).
If the original is tampered with there should be jail time. It would be very easy to determine that the file is not original.
If this is true- the Feds will know the video has been altered -tampered….they have experts that are much more knowledgeable than some senior DA investigator….glad you posted that info here…Hi Feds….!!
See. You even get people to believe it. Anything said here is the truth!! 🙂
LOL you guys come up with the best shit. Love it. If you didn’t have these wild dreams no one would listen. I have a copy too. It’s shows the mayor doing porn. 🙂
Great little art film. Palme D’or at Cannes? I can see it happening.
Fullerton Art Walk.
Thanks, now we’ll be able to tell if the quality is intentionally degraded when the real tape comes out.
I heard through the grapevine that the video of the beating with the city camera was conveniently focused in on a big tree limb as the beating went on, but that you could still see a lot of detail. My hunch is that T Rack will not indict these cops. I hope I am wrong.
Or as Rack the Rat said: there are things you can see and things you can’t see.
Nice view of a bird’s nest.
I hope you are wrong too but I can see it happening. Fortunately we will have the medical records from UCI that will show the extent of the beating.
If there were NOTHING to see, we would have seen it already!
“city camera was conveniently focused in on a big tree limb as the beating went on.”
^
That’s the part the gets me, and I’m not surprised if that is what we see on this footage. Tax payer camera at your service.
Beating starts = dispatcher turns camera to birds nest. Oh yes! 🙂
Reality is…….. you’re sick!! How would you like to get beat and conviently the camera is turned? How would your parents like that if you were beat to death? Hmmmm I wonder? Perhaps they would like being you are a sadistic sob yourself. Go the the devil worship blogs…. 🙂
That was an example of what I expected someone here to say happened. Conspiracy theory. 🙂
I was raised to respect the police and not run or fight with them so that wouldn’t happen. 🙂
Devil this :—->
Or…dispatcher turns camera on and a big ostrich stands in front of the camera. No matter what we say..Its never the right answer, or the one they want to hear…I think I’ll have another cold one.
oh yes, misprison of a felony. another fed charge, oh yes. next
misprison of a felony
THAT CORRUPT D.A. JUST AS MUCH STATED THAT THEY ARE OFF THE HOOK. THE D.A. HAS HIGHER AMBITIONS.
D.A. HAS HIGHER AMBITIONS.
If anyone in California votes for this crumb for anything, even dogcatcher, they’re beyond stupid.
No he doesn’t. He’s finished politically.
You will be surprised. 2014 is a ways away. Prove he’s scandalous and not just “because”.
voters don’t have to prove anything.
Step 1. vote bum out
Step 2. enjoy beer
Orange County loves him.
Travis did ur fpd family member give u this video? Im sure he probably already told u whats on that video
Dood! Does it really matter whether he does or not?
Is the footage not on a hard drive, I thought the vidoe days were over.
“Well, we’re doing a very thorough and complete investigation. We’re working on it day and night, frankly, and we’re, I think, coming to a conclusion. … We’re waiting for the report of the autopsy surgeon that would tell us what the cause of death is.”
http://www.ocregister.com/video/v/1134683530001/crime-fullerton-news
I would be curious as to the norm or average (if applicable) amount of time it generally takes to get back autosy reports in a case like this one. What are they specifically wating for regarding the report to conclude and forward the report?
NOT ENUFF FUNDING TO PERFORM THE JOB RIGHT. THE FIX IS IN.
if it was a dead cop they would spend millions if necessary
Thank you for this link. I hope everyone sees how this works: T-Rack gave and he got. He gave a very effective, at least to my eye, performance in defending key issues for which his office has been harshly criticized. In return he was given an important platform to stick up for his people in the face of budget cuts, something he needs to do for many reasons, especially morale.
As for what he had to say and the way he said it….
I’m beginning to think the dots are connecting. This DA is going to bring serious charges against 2-4 officers. They might be able to go further, but since convictions against cops are hard to get, he might want to keep the case focused on the strongest evidence. No Slidebar conspiracy or other stuff either, for the same reason.
T-Rack’s no dummy, he knows he’s got an uphill battle. The sting probably hasn’t gone away of that go ‘round in 2009 with the cops, the one where his DA’s office took another kind of beating in trying to get an excessive force conviction. Cop after cop took the witness stand and either changed their story or developed sudden amnesia. T-Rack’s deputy DA was so exasperated that he came right out to the jury in closing arguments and declared “There is a blue wall of silence.” He’s probably really desperate to avoid, if at all possible, another scene in open court like that one,. After all, these guys need to work together. ( the story is here: http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-04-16/news/moxley-confidential/ )
So T-Rack needs to have this case in as tidy of a package as humanly possible, and he needs to go to court with super solid evidence that does not rely on cop testimony, which he knows for sure to be unreliable. He wants the autopsy report to be bullet proof, and for the surgeons to step up to the plate with a determined, certifiable cause of death. He seems to me to be publicly pressuring them by repeatedly mentioning their part in the investigation, and specifically their delay. And T-Rack badly needs that un-released video to, a) clearly show criminal excessive force, and b) as difficult to challenge, on any foreseeable grounds, as possible. If it’s as explosive as many of us suspect, we probably won’t see it until trial. Why give potential jurors a year or more to get over the shock of seeing police officers beat a man to death?
These are the critical items, but he also needs to leave no stone unturned in every aspect of the investigation. And he can’t count on anything but non-cooperation from the FPD every step of the way, from the initial investigation through trial.
That’s my read from seeing that video. T-Rack’s tone, his body language and demeanor, as well as his words, all convey to me a determination to go forward with a high-profile case against the cops, and prosecute it as if his career and future aspirations depend on it, which it very well might.
Has the John and Ken Show picked up this story again? I know they’re back from the “vacation”. We were getting a lot more attention to this story when John and Ken used their bully pulpit.
I hate to speculate, but does anyone else think their management put a muzzle on them?
I wonder about that Bad Cop. They don’t seem to have the enthusiasm they had before going on vacation.
I know one of their reporters went on a ride-along with one of the FPD cops, and in his report sounded quite pro-FPD.
http://media.ccomrcdn.com/media/station_content/616/JK0825114P_1314323897_3417.mp3
Link for John and Ken FPD ride-along. They’re all over the DREAM Act and that’s how this goes for the first 2 minutes or so.
Well, that’s not so good news for us. I’m no fan of John and Ken, but they get results and actually seem to care about the causes they take up.
Now I’m convinced that someone told them to drop the story. I’m not deliberately trying to politicize this issue, and my apologies in advance if it seems I am doing so, BUT, KFI is known for its hugely conservative (read: pro-cop) stance. I am certain that J&K were told not to bite the hands that feeds them.
Or maybe because they also realize the cops might be innocent and don’t wanna look like buffoons? 🙂
YOU ARE RIGHT THEY WERE ORDERED TO DROP IT.
They aren’t really activists. The John and Ken Show is in the business of entertaining as many poor poor assholes stuck on the LA and OC freeways during the afternoon commute as possible. This story really had the juice when there was a bereaved parent and a secret anonymous source available to go on the air. Not so much now. At least for the time being.
Eye, do you know if Amy Goodman and Democracy Now have been made aware of this case? Now SHE can get the word out and garner lots of support.
As for KFI ownership censoring their coverage, sorry, but that’s really reaching.
KFI is the flagship west coast station for Clear Channel Communications, a company that is clearly interested in one thing and one thing only: Ratings and the ad dollars tied to ratings. This is a company that told Congress a couple of years ago that it would have a “zero tolerance for offensive programming.” Then, just last year, Clear Channel turned around a let it be known publicly that it was interested in talking with Howard Stern about a deal when Stearn’s contract with Sirius was up.
Sounds like quite a contradiction until you remember, It’s All About Ratings, Baby!
I agree with Eye. John and Ken are pretty much bulletproof now. Their show is enormously popular and I figure the cigar-chompers in the KFI penthouse boardroom are more that happy to let them do their schtick pretty much at will.
And the truth is that there are other newsworthy events happening in California that merit the attention of J&K.
I don’t think they’re cooling off on Kelly’s story. But here’s the thing; there will be days and maybe even weeks when nothing new regarding Kelly’s case is forthcoming. That doesn’t in any way mean that concerned media have forgotten or are wandering away from the story. I don’t think any of us will ever forget the night of July 5, 2011.
The gears of justice grind slowly, but they do grind. Thanks to FFFF, we have a community forum to discuss, debate, share information and just hang out while Kelly’s case winds through the system.
I’ve said this before; FFFF is a working template for every community whose citizens are fed up with the dirty dealings of their elected officials who have grown complacent in their crummy little shennanigans. I’ve mentioned that I know more about the inside workings of Fullerton’s city government than I know about the stuff going down in my own town, thanks to FFFF.
That’s a terrible reflection on me. I should be more involved. I watch the meetings on public access television, but I’ve never attended one, and they take place a five minute trolly ride from where I’m typing this.
Kudos and bravo for FFFF for setting a true example of citizen involvement and participation, for any community in the U.S.
I don’t know this, but I figure some folks have put their asses on the line in many ways in order to maintain this community blog. I hope I get to meet some of you guys and gals someday, and I mean that.
I’m proud and grateful for my ability to chip in to the discussion on FFFF. Even the trolls bring something to the table, albeit accidentally.
If we want to live in a free society — and we all do — we must be willing to put up with a lot of bullshit. It’s just the way of it.
We’re protecting and defending our free society just by being here for Kelly.
You guys are great. All of you.
Wait until Ron Thomas releases the medical records from UCI.
THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE ASAP OR RACKAUCKAS WILL DROP IT.
IT’S ALREADY DROPPED.
They’ve been talking about it for the past 30 mins.
That’s good to hear.
wrong- they talked about it today…the shows are archived….
They talked about it tonight for about 5 minutes. Just touched on the amount of time.
FYI Folks:
NOTICE OF MEETING CANCELLATION
CITY OF FULLERTON
CITY COUNCIL
REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
PUBLIC FINANCING AUTHORITY
Notice is hereby given that the City of Fullerton City Council / Redevelopment Agency / Public Financing Authority closed session regularly scheduled for Tuesday, September 6, 2011 at 5:00 p.m. and regular meeting at 6:30 p.m. have been cancelled.
The next regularly scheduled City Council / Redevelopment Agency / Public Financing Authority meeting will be September 20, 2011 beginning with a Closed Session at 5:00 p.m. and Regular Meeting at 6:30 p.m.
City Council holds all meetings in the Council Chamber located at 303 West Commonwealth Avenue, Fullerton, California.
For more information, please contact the Fullerton City Clerk’s Office at 714.738.6350.
They cancelled the Sept 6th meeting nearly 2 months ago. This is nothing new.
It was new to me Fat The So and it may be new to others. I’m glad you were in the know.
Tracey, the point is not whether you knew about it or no, it’s that the cancellation occured well before council found itself in this total shit storm of controversy. If that’s not made crystal clear, and probably even if it is, some, like ‘truthseeker’ below, will misinterpret the cancellation as yet another indication of a coverup (as if we need any more!).
Thank you EyeNeverSayNo. I do understand how that could add more fuel to the fire.
What did you expect? They have called off the media and now they have called off the meeting. But they cannot call off the meeting of our minds which they do FEAR.
They are shaking.
I’m listning to jon and ken now. They are talking about the case.
…right now.
Can you prove this?
Speaking of video, check out this article from today’s Wall Street Journal law blog:
“First Circuit Upholds Right To Videotape Arresting Officers”
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/08/30/first-circuit-upholds-right-to-videotape-arresting-officers/
FTA: “Gathering information about government officials in a form that can readily be disseminated to others serves a cardinal First Amendment interest,” the First Circuit held.
Regarding video taping officers. I do agree that anyone who steps out in PUBLIC has no expectation of privacy. I will add one thing though. As a retired deputy, I would advise that if you are taping an officer, whether it is a vehicular or pedestrian contact, please allow a sufficient amount of distance for that officer to do their jobs, as it deals with officer safety. That is not to say you cannot continue filming. If I was still on the job, I would welcome anyone video-taping, as I never had anything to hide.
Respectfully Submitted.
Great advice. That’s all I ever ask as well. Even a camera guy can have bad intentions. Video away.
Or else, like Vath Mam, your camera will be slapped out of your hands, you will be hit, thrown up against a car, knocked on the ground, falsely arrested, tried despite evidence showing your innocence by the corrupt and incompetent DA, the cops will just make up crazy stories about you and perjure themselves, and you will eventually win a very large settlement from them.
In other words, video everything and have a good lawyer ready.
Fair enough. I think you’re right on with that point.
Across the street is close enough. Agreed?
BTW, it’s not tape and it isn’t film. We’re showing our age here, amigo.
What about the woman whose film was confiscated? She had an old timey camera.
I would like to see that film!
Me too. But we won’t – it was exposed by an FPD “officer.”
Notice how Reality Is doesn’t coment on the really important stuff like this. Why was her film exposed? That is blatantly unconstitutional. Why isn’t this being investigated by FPD? Is this common practice at FPD? Are superiors giving orders to cops to do this at FPD? Reality Is -if you are really hear to educate us as you claim, educate us about this blatantly unconstitutional act committed by your beloved officers.
heheheheh how many people still say record when they mean CD? Please don’t say I’m the only one here!
btw probably not so much with cell phones, but most hand held camcorders will zoom across the street with plenty of detail, even with low light. Not good enough for an HD broadcast maybe, but plenty good enough for an Internet broadcast, and very likely good enough to stand up in court.
Technology just keeps gettin’ better’n’better.
Umm, “record” is short for “recording,” which to many still describes the content of a Compact Disc, vinyl disc, or even a digital download pretty darn well. Formats come and go, the CD is already on the way out, yet artists and musicians will continue to make records.
So go ahead, call ’em records, and don’t feel bad, it doesn’t make you a dinosaur. 🙂
Off point, but I still prefer vinyl. With proper care and the right stylus, “records” are the best way to listen to music — at least the stuff I listen to.
Ok — where were we?
So go ahead, call ‘em records, and don’t feel bad, it doesn’t make you a dinosaur.
Thank you, EyeNeverSayNo. Feeling millions of years younger already. 😎
SDLocal, I will admit I am starting into the grey-haired motel LOL.
I might be too, but I sure don’t feel like it. I’m not ready yet.
You’re retired. Thank you for your service, 9c1.
What’s your take on the “blue line of silence?”
This is THE BEST! Kudos to you guys! How can the city get around this?
The reason John and Ken backed off the Kelly Thomas Story was because Ken has financial investments with Tony Bushala. Clear-Channel caught wind of this and placed Ken on two weeks leave for breach of the ethics clause in his contract.
Ken was told to sever his financial ties with Bushala if he was to continue to use the Kelly Thomas story as an entertainment piece on his show.
Do you just make stuff up for fun?
Then they sent him to Peru for a paid vacation to view machu Pichu… get a life troll…
Now that’s just plain weird.
This is the kind of stuff that makes this blog great. Comedy. Some of the most far out stuff that people actually believe!!
#32 by You Can Call Me Ray on August 30, 2011
Wait until Ron Thomas releases the medical records from UCI.
THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE ASAP OR RACKAUCKAS WILL DROP IT.
Sorry you will be very disappointed by the documented injuries on Mr. Thomas. If the UCI hospital records contained any information that showed Kelly Thomas died as the result of a beating don’t you think Ron Thomas would have released it by now. Sorry not even a single broken bone on Kelly Thomas, Just those awful facial lacerations.
Wrong – broken ribs punctured a lung. Internal bleeding, loss of blood pressure. Heart stops. OR asphyxiation cause by crushed windpipe. OR brain hemorrhage.
Pick your poison, asshole.
Which is why cremate ASAP.
As Mayor Jones tried to communicate, from his background as a Medical Doctor, one does not die from facial lacerations…this will be important when and how the cause of death is determined.
The city offered him a million bucks for facial lacerations? Yeah right.
That jackass did boob jobs.
i dont think i heard anyone say that is what killed him though so its just meaningless right?
RE: Post #52…
John & Ken were discussing the case this afternoon. Maybe you missed it.
SDLocal,
You are so welcome. As for the blue line of silence, it is etched in stone I am sad to say. I can only imagine what the emergency personnel were thinking as Kelly came in. Clearly, they knew this was excessive and not warranted.
Will you be at the protest this Saturday?
I might drive up there. Why do you ask?
He wasn’t in a coma before they beat him 🙂
9c1copcar,
This is the first I heard that you are a retired deputy. Your input has been greatly appreciated; especially giving officers distance if videoing.
I agree. Thanks to any police officers or retired police officers on here who:
1. Honestly and clearly identify themselves as such.
2. Show respect for the concerns of ordinary citizens about political
corruption and police brutality.
3. Refrain from threats and mocking the public’s concern about the Kelly Thomas case.
Best thing humans could do is loosen that CATEGORIZING mechanism.. where we put all of something in with a few of something
Police Officers as a whole are deeply respected by my Heart.. If someone murdered my Mother or friend etc.. they usually do deeply care about finding the killer etc.. I can appreciate the risk and lack of respect they receive for putting their life and their childrens daddies life on the line for us
Thumbs up.
Yep. Video is incindeary and they do not want to release it due to public outcry or it would be out…. That is very clear video, please release the viseo and prove us wrong. You can probably read the badge #s on the cops … the zoom on that camera on the plates was really good…. camera meet bad cop, bad cop meet prison.
Theample of the video is very helpful for quality comparison.
If the “video” was originally recorded on electronic media, it is doubtful that a DA investigatior could have the only orginal copy. He would have to take an exact copy and the original be deleted. Plus, he would have to be willing to commit a felony and present a felony to the FBI. If this is well known, the proof should be provided.
T-Rack, to my knowledge, only inferred that there was no evidence to date of first degree murder, but that all options were open. I do not necessarirly trust T-Rack, but he did not indicate a copnclusion to this case.
As far as the sotry of Ken Champou’s conflicts of interest, it is very marginally plausible but does not ring true at all. If you know this, you would have to know a great amount of detail to know that the story is true and not vain imagination. So give the detail or the story will be discounted.
There is an unusual amount of trash on this thread, people. Let us do some quality investigative reporting.
KFI would have had to ochestrate the yearly vacations with the murder of Kelly. This is the low time for the radio personalities. Rush, John and Ken even Handel (quasi liberal). The new guy Bill Carroll etc all take vacation in the summer… heck I am taking vacation and I have given my guys vacation… we are not in collusion with the FPD and any other Fullerton crap.. I will be on vacation next week and some (I heart Cops) will take that as a weakining of my stance. I will be with my family making memories and Kelly will still be dead at the hands of Fullertons worst, We will think of him. Hope the six enjoy their vacations while they can…. I earned mine.
SDLocal, I would like to meet the people I talk to.
maybe some pics with your pen camera, grab a fingerprint from a cup etc. i smell pigshit.
#61 by 9c1copcar on August 30, 2011
SDLocal,
You are so welcome. As for the blue line of silence, it is etched in stone I am sad to say. I can only imagine what the emergency personnel were thinking as Kelly came in. Clearly, they knew this was excessive and not warranted.
Will you be at the protest this Saturday?
Sounds like you served proudly with Mr. Ron Thomas or are you Mr. Ron Thomas?
Respectfully Submitted?
Im not sure why that would even matter you trollface
Mr Thomas got fired after a few years. Excessive force.
Interesting. Sad, but interesting. How does that matter though?
please provide proof of this statement.
Reality…..and?
SURE YA ARE..
You have me confused..what is your point?
SURE YA ARE..
You have me confused..what is your point?
It’s that sharp thing on top of ‘his’ head… er, I THINK that’s a head?
9c1copcar:
Please forgive my poor attempt at humor, It was out of line.
Xer
Like J/K said today on air today the cowardly beasts are fine 6 on 1 but now, all of a sudden, are scared of death threats. People’s names are released everyday-even if they’re “persons of interest”, quite sure they get death threats-does anyone care? hells no
Why do those Gestapo get special treatment? they get special coverage by the government-why? stupid baboons -all of them-I can see their pink asses now in the meeting room trying to decide what to do next to keep the public away from their precious little chimps-they’re waiting for everyone to calm down-that aint happening creeps-deal with it. (like reality says)
they’re waiting for everyone to calm down-that aint happening creeps-deal with it. (like reality says)
Brilliant MJ!
Who said they are scared? He said the DAs office has received death threats on them. So the DA investigators are tracking those people down and filing charges. 🙂
Hey dingbat Reality http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/25/kelly-thomas-fullerton-police_n_936267.html
The DA must believe those devil spawn are scared as they say they are “concerned for their safety -the DA has made statements to the press that they cant release names as the “poor officers” are getting death threats.
What does that mean to you reality?
To me it means they’re frightened little girls.
How did those brain damaged freaks think the majority of public was going to react? a reward ceremony? a ticker tape parade?
And BTW, the FBI is not investigating these so called threats, because #1 they arent the president and #2 the “threats” arent really threats, they are just angry people spouting things that they dont like. poor critters and boo hoo
Hello? You really that dumb? That’s a cut n paste line used on all major incidents. Duh. Yea they are shivering.
i can just play this all night over and over again
http://youtu.be/FL_s9YhT-_U
ROFL LOLOL
best video evAR
WAY TO GO MERIJOE! I think we should chant that at the protest rally on Saturday. You’re on fire up there!!! I’ve been restin’.
I haven’t had a chance to listen to John and Ken on KFI much lately. But I really hope they are talking about the case again.
There have actually been a LOT of developments since they went on vacation.
EVERYTHING the anonymous caller said has turned out to be true. He told John and Ken about the camera in the parking lot (and I’m pretty sure that was the first time anyone had even mentioned it). He was also the FIRST person to say that the 6 FPD cops were allowed to watch the video from the camera WHILE they were writing their reports. That was WAY before the public knew about that. And of course, even the FPD finally admitted it was true.
And there is one other crucial fact. The anonymous informant specifically described Jay Cicinelli as the officer who was doing most of the beating. He didn’t name him, but he described him accurately, as an officer who was formerly in the LAPD and had lost an eye in a shooting in the 1990’s. The informant seemed to have a LOT of specific information and he obviously did in fact see the video. Otherwise, how in the world would he have even known that officer was there? The anonymous informant called the KFI show WAY before Jay Cicinelli was in the news. No one even knew which cops were involved until the informant called John and Ken.
Even the trolls like “Reality Is” can’t come up with a logical excuse for all this. The anonymous caller had inside information, which has turned out to be completely TRUE.
And if EVERYTHING the informant said is turning out to be true so far, then that means what he described in the video is also true. He said that Kelly Thomas was not even moving while Jay Cicinelli was beating him on the head with the back of a taser.
Here’s what the anonymous caller said on the John and Ken Show back then, which has now turned out to be TRUE. Keep in mind, this was WELL before this was public knowledge:
– There was a camera in the parking lot of the train station, which would have clearly recorded the beating.
– One of the officers involved is a former LAPD officer, who had lost an eye during a shooting back in the late 1990’s. We now know this is Jay Cicinelli.
– The FPD cops who were involved in the beating were allowed to watch the video from that camera, while they were writing their reports.
These are 3 true and CONFIRMED facts, which the anonymous informant reported about, well before they were public knowledge.
The informant also gave a lot of other very specific details:
– The “one-eyed” officer can be seen beating Kelly Thomas on the head with the back of a taser and Kelly was on the ground and NOT moving.
– This same officer later bragged about the beating. Several other officers were very upset about this.
– Administrators had rejected the 6 cops’ reports and sent them back several times to be re-written.
– The FPD uses a “paperless” system, where reports are typed on computers. The informant said that each time the officers changed the reports, they would have had to log into the database, so there would be a record of each time they logged in to change their reports.
– The informant also said that the tasers the FPD uses have an electronic diagnostic system on them, so they can be plugged into a computer to view how many times they were discharged.
It seems to me like there is PLENTY of evidence for the Orange County DA and the FBI to charge and prosecute those cops. If anyone from the FPD or the DA has tried to tamper with evidence, it should be very easy for the FBI to find out. They have technicians who can recover data from hard drives that was supposedly “deleted.”
They shouldn’t have burned this informant so quick. He might have been a good mole.
I kickback reports everyday. So that’s normal. Just like viewing video. Normal. Digital tracking will show the changes. Minor.
Your mole might be leading you in the wrong direction though. 🙂
I kickback reports everyday.
I’m sorry, did you say you kick suspects everyday, or you take kickbacks everyday?
Your mole might be leading you in the wrong direction though.
Ever play whac-a-mole? They just pop up somewhere else. Slippery little devils.
LOL. Sometimes both. Boots and donuts.
Yes great game. Fullerton has whac a moles.
I’d say he was a good mole since your here on this site.
Very encouraging and great points Chris. I can’t help but think the informant may be a higher ranking officer to have been able to view the video at all, or possibly the dispatcher viewing it at the time it actually occurred. Maybe one of the 6?
If I remember right, the informant said that a dispatcher watched a live feed from the camera, and had actually zoomed in on the beating. The informant was apparently in the police station and saw the video as it was happening. He said that there were 3 dispatchers on duty in that station that night, and they were all “shocked” by what they saw. That must be why they panned the camera and zoomed in. They wanted to document it.
So the DA saying that “there are some things you can see and some things you can’t see” is total bullcrap. The video is very clear, enough so that the dispatchers who saw it LIVE were very disturbed by what they saw.
And of course, we have now seen the high resolution of these cameras and what they are capable of recording. The video would be VERY clear.
Someone posted a comment earlier, saying that one of the DA investigators had taken a copy of the video home and altered it on a computer, to greatly reduce the resolution and darken the contrast. I hate to say it, but that might actually be true. They might have copied the video file to a flash drive or portable hard drive, then took it to another computer at home to manipulate it. Then they could have deleted the original file. Nothing would surprise me anymore.
But if the FBI does its job right, it would be very easy for them to find out if the video was manipulated. Like I said, they are able to recover data from hard drives that was supposedly “deleted.”
But that’s if the FBI really follows through. I hope they will.
That must be why they panned the camera and zoomed in.
Didn’t someone say it was focused on a tree? Perhaps they quickly zoomed back out and panned so as to NOT document it? At the order of the superior?
I would NOT want to have been witnessing that live, especially if I were a fellow officer, at least not an honest one. I can’t soon forget those tears in the Assistant DA’s eyes when the reporter asked her if she had seen the video and what was on it.
If that video is altered in any way the FBI will know and whomever altered it will be in the deep stuff. The FBI are slow but they are thorough. When they make an arrest it will stick.
Can I grimace now?
Yes, I will. 🙁
Kimmy. You are falling for the lies. You know the truths. If you really think a DA investigator took a video home to alter…. I know you don’t. The panning, zooming will be interesting to see I’m sure. 🙂
No no, I didn’t say that for that reason…. I was just going to say way to type without thinking at 3 AM and bring this up….
I don’t know anything about anything. Seriously. but you’ve got to admit, this doesn’t look so good for you guys right now.
Kimmy… LOL…
Yes kimmy.
Well. I think it looks exactly the same right mow as it did the week after it happened. All the facts known are exactly the same. Nothing has changed. All the reports and video were in the hands of the DA then. Only difference is more interviews now. Still waiting for coroners report.
So I think exactly the same.
I’m sitting at Denny’s having some oatmeal. 🙂
Let me say instead of I don’t know anything about anything, I should say I have no clue. I wait and see the video. I had seen though from my research that this was a GOOD camera that could pan in and out.
Yep. Good system. Will be crazy if this fight took place in a spot directly behind a tree though huh? As the DA said, you can still see the fight though.
Why would a DA investigator fall on a sword for six ape brained morons? It wouldn’t only be a career ender, it would be Federal time. Who could afford to pay someone enough to do that?
What did Ollie North get except a temporary slot on FOX? Must have been something more! Ollie’s not real bright though. Perhaps we’re not all as intelligent as we give ourselves credit for?
No doubt, if the panning zooming did show the beating six cops are gong down. The video won’t stay out of focus for long because FBI’s got great video tools.
That’s what I was thinking as well Xer. But in this world here of the ultimate conspiracy at every step, it didn’t surprise me that someone would actually think that.
Reality isnt-whats so strange believing a dirtbag thug isnt capable of being a lying dirtbag thug?-after all the shit those bastards who have any sort of political power have been caught redhanded doing?
I think you must be one of them –
Why of course those A holes will try to get away with anything they can even if that means tampering with evidence- and you know it
Doesn’t mean everyone is doing it all the time. Use evidence to defame and bash someone, not just because they are wearing a Doctors outfit or a cops uniform or a mayors gavel. Your broad brush is unrealistic and makes everything you say stink of shit.
That video was taken as evidence,and d.a. is responsible for it,any tampering will be discovered,and thats his ass on the line. Is the attorney generals office involved in this mess anywhere? Also has there been any involvement or talks with your representitives or congressmen? If not why ?
I am no lawyer by no means,but with the you tube vids,the witnesses,the bus video,the ignorant city council statements,the lack of anything by law enforcement,there clearly is enough evidence that a law has been broken,whether he tried to run or not,excessive force is clearly evident.The d.a. is also at fault.The sad thing is,this happens to a degree everywhere in this country.
Always will because there will always be people that feel the use of force was too much. Most don’t have the facts but feel that way anyways just because.
And, some cops think more force is necessary than actually is instead of de-escalating a situation because adrenaline clouds their reasoning. You can’t do it RI, you simply cannot successfully justify this brutal murder. Because people are homeless, or mentally ill, or even if they are drug users, or thieves, or murderers still they have a Constitutional Right to a trial by jury in a court of Law. Nothing in the Constitution says people have the Right to be brutally executed in the streets of America on suspicion of burgling cars. That would be Syria not the USA. And, nothing gives cops the Right to be judge jury and executioner in The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. Kelly Thomas was no danger to six large trained well armed FPD (I simply cannot bring myself to call them police officers). What was done to Kelly Thomas was positively Cruel and Unusual. His Constitutional Rights were violated. You can influence the DA, but influencing the FBI is going to require a lot more clout, especially when my Senators and Congressmen, along with those of other Americans are going to put pressure on the FBI to make a thorough investigation. Enjoy your oatmeal. Lucky you don’t take as large a bites as the size of the BS you float out here or you’d choke.
“And, some cops think more force is necessary than actually is instead of de-escalating a situation because adrenaline clouds their reasoning.”
Exactly. Thus Kelly’s death.
You think? Interesting. And have fun with your oatmeal…..
THEY CAN PUT A MAN OR WOMAN ON THE MOON QUICKER THAN YOU CAN GET A CORONERS REPORT,B.S. CORONER’S THE D.A.’S PUPPET TOO.THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE ONLY OUT FOR THEMSELVES AND THERE BUDDIES.CORRUPTION BREEDS CORRUPTION,SELFISH,SO.B.””’S,OUT FOR THE MIGHTY DOLLAR.
No, the Coroner is Sandra Hutchens, who is also the Sheriff. The Medical Examiner is a separate guy.
In other words the Coroner is a cop. Things are all starting to make sense.
I REALLY hope the FBI is looking at the following:
– The infamous video from the camera in the parking lot (of course)
– Whether the video that was submitted to them shows any signs of being altered.
– The record from the tasers, which would show, among other things, how many times they had been discharged.
– Records from FPD computers, which would show when officers logged in to the database to write (or change) reports. It would also show which officers had logged in. My guess is that it would be something similar to a server log.
– A record of when a call was supposedly received by the FPD, reporting that someone was “trying to break into cars.”
Actually, I’m pretty sure they’re going to get a search warrant for the phone records from the Slidebar.
I noticed that “Reality Is” still has not offered a logical excuse for how an anonymous informant within the FPD could know information well before it was public knowledge, and that SAME informant also said that Kelly Thomas was lying on the ground and not moving while Jay Cicinelli was beating him with a taser.
He knew one of the officers involved in the beating (the one who was doing most of the beating) was Jay Cicinelli BEFORE the public did. Now tell me, if most of the “fight” happened behind a tree or some other obstacle, than how did the informant know that Jay Cicinelli was there and that he was the one hitting Kelly with a taser.
He knew that the 6 cops were allowed to watch the video…again, BEFORE that was in the public. And now even the FPD confirmed it.
Explain all that. Like I said, even “Reality Is” can’t cook up an excuse. The anonymous informant who has given very specific, detailed information (which has so far proven to be TRUE) also said that Kelly Thomas was not moving while the cops were beating him.
Kim, you were right. It doesn’t look good at all. I suspect that you and “Reality Is” know each other in some way, outside of this blog. And I’m almost certain now that “Reality Is” is connected with the FPD in some way. Especially with what you said about how this didn’t look too good for “you guys.”
But in any case, it’s looking worse for the FPD with every day that passes.
Doh! Sorry Kim. Didn’t mean for it to look like you are associated with me. Believe me, Kim doesn’t know me at all. Sorry Kim.
Chris, I think your list is obvious things that were looked at right away. The report log depends on how digital they are.
Maybe a cop that was on duty that night but didn’t show on the call and wasn’t involved but was around the station all night after? Or a records clerk or dispatcher or jailer that saw everything that night and how it all unfolded? Disgruntled employee in one of those areas?
I don’t think anyone is worse off now than before. Just a ton of interviews to do. Think back to Rodney King or Ivory Webb or other police incidents and there aren’t many people around. This one is complex and it was obviously going to take a long time to complete. Even if someone is charged, they will probably contact the attorney and have him booked and bailed before they even hold the press conference. It will all be well planned out.
Doh! Sorry Kim. Didn’t mean for it to look like you are associated with me. Believe me, Kim doesn’t know me at all. Sorry Kim.
Why should we believe anything you say? You are a very creative apologist. Do you need to get permission before each post, or are your “contributions” here unmonitored? Be careful how you answer.
You don’t have to. I don’t expect you to believe anything I say.
Free and open. No monitoring. Careful!! 🙂
I don’t expect you to believe anything I say.
Then your not as dumb as your smiley face looks.
Oh for the love of God. I DO NOT KNOW REALITY IS.
Oh good grief… I don’t know Reality Is. Reality Is could be anyone though. He could be one of the 6, one of their lawyers, the chief, he could be an FBI agent, a CIA agent, Stacy Koon, Laurence Powell, Tim Wind, anyone. Once this is all over with, I will laugh when your identity is revealed.
I should say I will laugh when your identity is revealed because I am curious as to who you are. Please don’t be paranoid, people. I don’t know Reality Is or anyone else at FPD. Stop already.
How do you know he is a “he” if you don’t know HIM?
How do you know HE is a HE if you don’t know HIM?
Very good point, Through different eyes. I made an assumption, which I shouldn’t have done. The point still remains, I do not know anyone associated with this or anyone at the Fullerton PD in any way, shape or form.
instead of disgruntled employee how about an honest employee who exposed the liars so they wont be associated with scum? i know cops first to hell with everyone else
This thing is so incendiary. The FBI HAS to do the right thing. I don’t think they have a choice.
So, “Reality Is”…you’re admitting that there is a “mole” in the department who is giving accurate information to the public. So, again, tell me, how exactly did he know that Jay Cicinelli was one of the cops involved? The only possible explanation is that he must have seen the video, probably as it was happening. What, do you seriously think that he just “guessed” ? And he specifically said that it was Jay Cicinelli hitting Kelly Thomas repeatedly with the back of the taser…while Kelly was NOT moving.
He also said that he saw Jay Cicinelli doing several “knee-drops,” to Kelly’s nose and throat area. You can see very clearly in the picture of Kelly at the hospital that his nose was broken and severely swollen.
The informant knew Jay Cicinelli was there. Did he just happen to “make up” seeing him beat Kelly with a taser while Kelly was NOT moving?
If he was going to make something up, why not just say that he saw the cops beating Kelly with a baton or a flashlight. But NO, he said very specifically that it was a taser.
They’re busted, and even you can see that. Actually, I’m still pretty certain that you are connected to the FPD in some way. So your friends are busted, I should say.
I can also see the little gears working in your brain right now, Reality Is. You’re trying to figure out who the “mole” is. Especially with that thinly veiled statement “they shouldn’t have burned the informant.” So now you’re going to try to find out who it was, aren’t you? Well, it’s too late for that.
I was thinking he was actually at the scene. I have no idea who it is and I don’t care. No reason to find out. Maybe someone that dislikes Jay? Maybe a cop that didn’t like what he saw? No clue. Don’t care.
They could be busted. If they screwed up they should be busted.
I said burned because if he is legit and was providing factual information he probably could have continued to provide information, video, reports, taping of employees, etc. If he made it up, then it will prove worthless anyways. Time will tell.
If I wanted to find out I woulda done that after the KFI interview. Or maybe everyone already knows? 🙂
Have another drink RI maybe it’ll lube those ‘little gears’ so they spin faster. It would be tough to match the spin dance your fingers do on a keyboard though.
Good luck with that.
Amazing but typical. It appears that Reality Is still can’t accept the legitimacy of this informant, regardless of all the points you have been making in this thread Chris. In his most recent post he once again states, “If he made it up, then it will prove worthless anyways.” You STILL CAN’T HANDLE THE REALITY! However, Reality Is, when or if you find out who the informant was, I’m sure you will let us know, right?
Actually I think Reality Is has delivered a pretty good analysis with regard to the informant, and he’s right, if John and Ken hadn’t gone for the ratings blockbuster by having the guy on live, and had instead milked him for more info, then leaked the information less flamboyantly in a series of reports, you know, like real journalist/activists used to do with their secret sources (think Deep Throat and Woodward and Bernstein), perhaps we would be a lot closer to knowing the truth and furthering the cause for justice by now.
I read an interesting news piece in the LAT last night that seems pertinent to the ongoing coverup in the Kelly Thomas murder investigation:
Headline: “Judge orders Sheriff’s Department to pay L.A. Times’ legal fees”
Sub-Head: “County must pay the newspaper’s costs in a lawsuit over the names of deputies involved in fatal shootings. The judge agreed with The Times that revealing their identities would serve the public interest.”
Story:A judge has ordered the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department to pay legal fees to The Times in litigation over the release of identities of officers involved in shootings, finding that the issue was a matter of public interest….”
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-deputy-names-20110831,0,4734663.story
Great article ‘Eye’. Seems that the ‘tides may be turning’ in our long time ‘Cover the Bad Cops Ass’ rulings we normally have seen in the past.
It’s possible they had a change of heart.
They’re not exactly known for advocacy, especially given the circumstances of this case. Kelly Thomas was, after all, a mentally ill homeless man. Truly sad. The entire case makes me truly, truly sad.
BY THE PEOPLE
FOR! The People!
And the PEOPLE WILL RULE!!!
I am willing to believe any cop interviewing him knew he could get him to GO SCHIZO in a short amount of time considering he had no money for medication
I see a deeeep story potential here that he was murdered for some ulterior motives outside of any police report…
If the DA doesn’t do shit I hope he chokes on his wheaties and dies
Wheaties is for Champions.
Tony “don’t call me Anthony” Ra-Crack-Smoker is clearly a Count Chocula type of guy.
There would be some justice there if T-RAX chokes and croaks, providing he chooses to play unfairly.
many blood sucking insects
Like I stated in past..
High school debate team… “Whoever can lie the fastest and most demeaning and convincing WINS!!” ALL OF POLITICS
Any VOTER that trusts a politician is truly just a lost cause .. they do what their VETERAN Politicians do.. vote for any dirty shit that kept them in power..
all the while waking up to look at their children’s faces knowing their gift to developers and such just robbed ROBBBBED !!! your children from a nicer community park or school renovations or for gods sakes.. free lunch ..
White collar criminals and politicians are probably 80% SOCIOPATHS… they have no MORAL FOUNDATION
they are scum barnacles and leeches that latch onto anything that feeds their pocketbook and worthless mirrors..
http://www.google.com/search?q=resisting+arrest+ends+in+death
top stories .. anger inside you will express itself outside you .. it is a guarantee.. 110%
AND NOT EVEN NATIONAL NEWS.. FUCK THE BLUE LINE.. bastards .. how any cop in USA went to work and didn’t ask for the cops that murdered Kelly Thomas to be sent home.. is a tribute to the murder of Jesus christ or mlk etc.. cowardly no connection to humanity bugs
must channel it properly.. or end up like these cops who murdered a man and will be incarcerated for it.. have some pity on them for allowing anger and hatred to control them and if you know another who chooses that route or life.. please say a prayer for him/her
I walked by the Slimebar last night. Holy Crap that place was Douchebag Central. THEY were bothered by Kelly?
First off has she come forward and talked to anyone? The PD? The DA? I just figured this was another made up story by the activists to spark the clan. If she has, then I’m sure you will get your answer. It might even be on the video.
I’m not here to educate anyone. You educate or change the mind of people that have their mind made up no matter what the facts are. Not just this case but anything. It’s easy to talk smack from behind a computer knowing nothing about the topic.
So go back in your hole. 🙂
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Jt :
Notice how Reality Is doesn’t coment on the really important stuff like this. Why was her film exposed? That is blatantly unconstitutional. Why isn’t this being investigated by FPD? Is this common practice at FPD? Are superiors giving orders to cops to do this at FPD? Reality Is -if you are really hear to educate us as you claim, educate us about this blatantly unconstitutional act committed by your beloved officers.
So prove it to me that it actually happened and then we can discuss the constitution. 🙂
Your a smart guy. Try it as a hypothetical. Address it as an allegation which may or may not have happened, and then answer my 3 qusetions:
“Why isn’t this being investigated by FPD? Is this common practice at FPD? Are superiors giving orders to cops to do this at FPD?” .
Not going to answer THESE QUESTIONS are you.
What are you so afraid of, besides the people you pretend to “serve” finding out the truth about the corruption in your workplace and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT?
Afraid of nothing. Isolated incidents happen all the time all over the US. Doesn’t make it suddenly a widespread epidemic.
Maybe it is? Never heard of it and didn’t even know they made film anymore LOL. No. I do not give anyone orders so silly. 🙂
but you say you kick back reports
I like how when you are actually challenged with genuine questions about the conduct of officers for the Fullerton Police department you deflect them completely and insult the person who asked you the question. You are right about one thing. You are not here to educate. You are here to propagandize.
Address the general sense of the community of Fullerton that its police force has WAY TOO MANY BAD APPLES. That they misuse their authority and force. That the number of claims of police brutality against them is high enough to warrant serious, probably Federal, investigation.
And by the way, it is coming.
Address any of that instead of your lame insults and unfunny one-liners. .
I insult people that dont have an open mind.
I can’t address that because the general community doesn’t feel that way. Fact.
Prove the high number of claims. Another lie. Do this since you are so full of facts. Gather all use of force incidents in every city in the OC and show me where Fullerton is based on population and size. 🙂
It’s not coming. One incident doesn’t do that.
I insult when insults are needed and I like one liners. 🙂
We’ve already established on this blog that at least 10% of FPD has been charged or accused of some crime or another.
I don’t need to compare Fullerton to other cities to say that Fullerton has too many bad apples. Maybe other cities have too many bad apples too, ever thought of that?
You don’t know what the general sense of community is in Fullerton. I doubt you even live in Fullerton. Bottom line – your “facts” are just speculation on your part.
I won’t stoop to your level on the insults. Your lack of rationality, empathy, compassion, fair-mindness etc. all speaks for itself.
In other words, you are just a nasty little troll and I genuinely hope you DO work FPD so I can have the eventual satisfaction of seeing you lose the position you do not deserve to have.
As well RealityAin’t, I haven’t seen your response to (I believe) Chris’s question earlier about why the informant has been so accurate thusfar in what we know so far:
1) Officer w/one eye doing most of the beating and former LAPD cop.
2) FPD6 were allowed to view video shot from the city parking lot camera while writing their reports (w/superior officers giving them back for touch-up, cover-up multiple times).
3) Paperless whereby each officer has to log in each time he fudges or modifies report. (We will get that confirmed shortly)
4)Mentioned two specific knee-drops from one-eyed cop. (Kelly’s after-beaten face concurs with that)
Got any rebuttals to that yet RI?
1). That hasn’t been shown to be true.
2). Normal procedure. Video is viewed at all PDs from dash cams. PDs with city cameras have never not allowed officers to view recordings. Superiors hand back reports all day everyday for corrections at every PD there is. So all normal procedure and no reason to change that ir an incident such as this one.
3). You will have to figure out the system Fullerton uses for reports. 🙂 most PDs don’t track changes to reports because most aren’t on an electronic system that modern. Alot of PDs still write reports. I’ll leave that research up to you.
4). Again, never confirmed. Could have happened? Sure. Knee drops are a technique used to gain compliance or force a suspect to release or comply.
Yes. 🙂 🙂
JT,
Any incident regarding excessive force/deadly force should ALWAYS be investigated by an OUTSIDE source. This way, it gives legitimacy and a neutral based, non-biased look at ONLY the facts.
Agree.
Anonymous,
How can you tell if a politician is lying? There lips move!!
Allowing officers to review video to aide in their reports is a “Bad Practice”. It is not ‘normal procedure’ country-wide but in Gestapo Units like FPD, I’m sure it is normal.
Here is a statement from former LAPD IG on this:But the practice is at odds with the way many other police departments deal with serious use-of-force cases. The LAPD’s former inspector general, Jeffrey Eglash, said that allowing police to look at video before giving evidence is a “bad practice.”
Photos: Fullerton residents protest death
“You want each person’s recollection. I would look at the videotape like another witness,” he said. “It allows the officers to conform their statements to other evidence rather than getting their independent witness recollection. It is not a practice that advances the truth-seeking.”
LAPD’s practice is not to allow officers to review videos unless authorized by internal affairs, but the department allows an exception for footage from in-car video cameras.
@Wrong Guy,
Thanks for posting this info!
Like I said nothing against it and most do it. No policy against it, however, the option to view video outside of dash cam video, rarely occurs. In fact I can never think of that option being available outside of this incident. Maybe future policy will change statewide related to this. That’s fine. Until then, if the option is there it will be available.
Welcome. I did plenty of Google searching and other research the last couple of days and I’ve made a folder on desktop that consists of various articles and websites, all concerning police abuse and misconduct. I’ve been interested in this since ’98 when I had been set-up and covered-up by L.M. Sheriff.
You’ve been working really hard and I appreciate all your effort. Keep up the great work!! Two BIG THUMBS UP!
Wrong Guy: Did you Google “Excited Delirium?” See how many cases there are all over the world? If you are truly interested in police abuse you will give this some consideration. It is definitely a valid diagnosis and one that bears some investigation by the medical professionals. How many PD’s are aware of this and attempt to give teaching to combat the situation? Any? Almost all of the victims were schizophrenic.
Kelly was INTENTIONALLY PROVOKED by the FPD into running out of FEAR FOR HIS SAFETY! The officers INTENTIONALLY ESCALATED the situation, INSTEAD of De-escalating it, as they had been taught to do in their C.I.T. class.
Your little unproven theory does NOT apply.
Kelly had just finished dinner, was sitting calmly on a bench, had calmly spoken with other passers by, and sat on the curb for approx. 20 minutes while the officer spoke with Kelly. Kelly did not become upset until the officer THREATENED KElly. So much for your theory.
LOL God you are on the pipe again. Intentionally provoked. You come up with the best shit. Love it. 🙂
agreed whole heartedly Justice, absoultey right, I hope the defense attorney has figured this out.
See how the trolls hate this post? cause its the truth
HE WAS INTENTIONALLY PROVOKED TO RUN. if some fat gross blobs with ugly uniforms threaten to kick my ass and twirled a baton and I was paranoid, Id run too, just self preserving insinct would tell me that these guys were going to hurt me.
Jay-bird, did you Google “When 2 -6 grown men tase, beat, hit, bludgeon with taser butts, and knee drop a prone suspect he often dies??” How mand PDs are aware of THIS and try to put an end to it rather than cover up.
LOL another pipe smoker. Now he was prone. You guys dream up the best shit.
I didn’t dream it up. It has been reported by multiple witnesses. But you can believe what you want, especially since you are so bright, open-minded, well-adjusted, compassionate, etc.??? Did I leave anything out?? I’m sure you’ll pat yourself on the back a few more times today.
We will see how many say he was prone and they jumped on him. I bet your witnesses said Kelly was laying proned out on the cement arms and legs spread. 6 big huge steroid ape looking fat cops ran to him and they all jumped on him and started beating him and taserimg him and taser butting him and knee dropping him and baton whacking him and then they all got up and did a victory dance around him and they all drove off. LOL
Yeah, a LOL is so appropriate regarding Kelly’s death. You really MUST do a lot of texting with teen or tween girls.
I’m still waiting for Police Academy Sensei “Reality Is” to explain how the officers delivered the knee drop on a suspect who was NOT prone. Could you send a diagram with that as well, because I’m having a hard time imagining it.
No, he wasn’t prone, ass-clown. In fact, he was probably fully upright and dancing an Irish frickin’ jig. By the way, how do you KNEE DROP a “suspect” who ISN’T prone??? Please explain this to me. Thanks in advance, Master.
(I don’t smoke drugs, by the way… I get enough delusional trips from you and the other cop trolls on this blog.)
Look up prone.
Nice. Trips are good.
You’re an arrogant twat. Prone means lying flat (I have spoken English for many years and have degrees in the subject).
If you want to flaunt your expertise in how to get away with excessive force, feel free, but don’t think you can redefine the English language for me. Look that up, fool.
Wow, you’re smart. When you have no intelligent answer to a difficult question (like how the officers knee dropped a suspect on the ground — i.e., prone, Merriam Webster), you use the blanket response that everyone who disagrees with you is “smoking crack.” What a carefully considered, intelligent response.
im a medical professional Prone is lying face down same as what the fat ass Nazi’s will be when Bubba gets a hold of them in jail to toss their salads
Wrong Guy said he was interested in police abuse and Excited Delirium seems to be a valid diagnosis, not be me, but by many other medical professionals. And Justice, if you were not there you have no right to say what happened and what didn’t happen. Jus sayin…
There are plenty of witnesses who were there and who did see what happened.
I agree. Leave it to them not pipe dreams.
but you can right? just sayin ….
Why do YOU have the right to say what happened in the Thomas home and in the hearts of the family members when YOU have never been there (or, I’m guessing, met any of them)???? Hypocrisy much???
Even if there were petty issues in the family or the parents were less than ideal, do you have any idea how utterly classless and sadistic your comments have been (less than two months after the beating death)?
Because it comes from both sides. Both sides to blame. Both sides innocent until proven otherwise. You bash one side and I’ll bash the other. The truth will be told.
There aren’t two sides, you moron. There is a family who had their child beaten to death. Many, many people across the state and the entire country were sickened by it (including myself). This isn’t a soccer match with 2 sides, so get over yourself debate captain.
If you think ‘bashing’ the victim and his family is somehow justified because people are upset with the city government and the police force, then you are both immoral AND stupid. Congratulations. (… and thanks for being “open-minded” while you bash the victim’s side).
Now it’s a child.
You notice how it’s all died off? Cause the majority are normal rational thinking citizens and they are waiting for the investigation to be complete.
Open mind that.
I’m a he she.
We know you’re a eunich….. I should say that I made an assumption about your sex, which I shouldn’t have done.
Save Us: Why are you not bashing the people who are calling Officers murderers? If I can’t say anything about the Thomas family, you and others have no right to say the cops are murderers. You don’t know, just following the mob and getting all excited because you were probably stopped or rousted or ticketed by a cop when you were 16. Well, get over it! We have all been rousted and ticketed at some point. You break the law, that’s what happens.
Fullerton cops and O.C. District Attorney: Never try to manipulate these video contents and make a fool of yourselves. Specialist and FBI can tell the different.
Thank you SaveUs and Justice for taking care of these pathetically defeated Trolls while I was away.
Thank you J-Cat for getting your medical experts to perform a psychological profile on me. They are rejects like you! By the way, my amigos in LM say your house has been vacant. Are ya still in the country?
Simple. Right arm in the air, elbow strikes backwards, right leg kicked forward, left arm under the body. Happens all the time. I either go to wrist locks if possible, strikes to the liver, ball grabs n squeezes, knees to the liver, eye gouges, neck pinches, dry stun taser shots, arm breaks backwards, or rear carotid neck holds. Just depends on the fight, the struggle, the cops, PCP, etc. All options. All used at one time or another. All legal. If someone is prone, they are cuffed and taken away.
Yeah, simple… if the suspect is a freakin’ contortionist. Again, how do you hold a suspect upright AND drop your knee into him??? It violates the laws of physics unless the officer is taller than Yao Ming.
Who said upright?
The opposite of prone is upright. If you have a more specific definition in police reports, that’s fine, but I’m speaking in common English with other members of the general public.
Wrong again. There isn’t two positions, prone or upright.
You and the fellas scratch and pull hair too, don’t ya?
Hell yes. When it’s a fight all it takes is one wrong move and its over. Hair eyes balls anything it takes. Always always have to have the advantage.
it is going to be such a wonderful day for us all when you are fired, resign, or retire. It just can’t happen quickly enough.
I teach police in this very thing. Say what you want as you did. It is what it is. Yes prone is laying flat. Body arms and legs, all spread wide and out.
Twat this. I’ll show you ground fighting anytime. I’ll be the bad guy. You be the cop. I’ll show you how easy it all is. 🙂
No, prone is lying flat. Period.
And, yes, I will take you up on your offer. Just give me my taser, gun, body armor, baton, and 5 of my friends to help out with the “apprehension” of suspect. Quit resisting, maggot, right??
No. You start with two.
No problem. The other 4 can come in after the 4th or 5th blast of the taser.
No problem. Just remember the taser won’t work. So strike me with it good or you might end up on your back and lose your gun.
Oh, really, that could possibly/remotely happen?? Okay, then I think it’s about time we all (6 of us) pull out our service pistols and shoot you in the head?? That would be justified, too, right (at least it would be far more humane than Kelly Thomas’ death)??
Yea ok. Zing.
Witnesses have said Kelly was prone on the concrete. End of story. If you want to dispute that, that’s your business.
My personal thought is you just wanted to get an erection from typing all your favorite torture methods (ball grabbing and squeezing, knee to the liver, neck pinches, and so on, and so on). Seriously, man, how much DO you love violence and getting the chance to inflict in “legally” on others??? It seems like quite a bit.
And in court they will describe prone and they will learn what prone is.
Another cop. Another camera. Another facepalm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eg0IOhiFD4&feature=player_embedded
Yes. I get your gun 6 shots to my head is justified.
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Save US from the Fullerton Cops :
Oh, really, that could possibly/remotely happen?? Okay, then I think it’s about time we all (6 of us) pull out our service pistols and shoot you in the head?? That would be justified, too, right (at least it would be far more humane than Kelly Thomas’ death)??
I really hope the FPD cops are charged and prosecuted for a serious crime…2nd Degree murder at least.
But there is one thing to consider – even if somehow they do get off, or are given a light sentence, the public will brand them as murderers for the rest of their lives. Their names are everywhere on the internet, and the public knows exactly who they are now. Whether the police like that or not. Especially the main culprit, Jay Cicinelli. His name and PICTURE is everywhere on the internet.
For the rest of his life, Jay Cicinelli will never be able to walk into a grocery store without someone recognizing his name (and possibly his face) as the rogue cop who killed someone.
And that, at least, gives me a tiny bit of comfort. It’s not enough, it’s not justice. But it’s a good start. It’s the karma that Jay Cicinelli will have to face for the rest of his life. From now on, whenever anyone does a Google search for his name, this is what he will be known for.
It’s just like OJ Simpson. He got off, but everyone knows he is a murderer. That is pretty much the only thing he is known for. In fact, there are some people right now who are so young that they don’t even know that he was an actor or an athlete. I’m 33 and I barely knew him as an actor…just from the Naked Gun movies I saw when I was a kid.
Regardless of what happens, Jay Cicinelli will forever be known as the rogue, psychotic cop who beat someone to death. For the rest of his life, that’s the only thing the public will know him for.
The other cops are responsible too, for killing Kelly, or not taking action to stop it. But Jay Cicinelli is the main culprit.
And that’s the only thing anyone will about him. For the rest of his life.
Until one day in the future, he will have to answer to a higher power for what he did.
Until then, I’m still hoping he will face the consequences here on Earth. A life sentence of hate and public ridicule at the very least…but criminal charges and a long prison sentence would be better.
We all do if there was wrongdoing. If not, then we don’t. We will see. I don’t think 2nd degree murder or any type of murder will ever be filed.
I think you are reaching for your thoughts on lifetime community justice. He could move to Idaho, Wyoming, or many other places and never be noticed one time. He could move places in California and never be noticed.
As long as you believe he will be facing a rough life and ridicule, that’s probably for the best though.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=gsis%2Ci18n%3Dtrue&cp=6&gs_id=g&xhr=t&q=jay+cicinelli&pf=p&sclient=psy&site=&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=jay+ci&aq=0&aqi=g5&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&fp=1&biw=800&bih=436&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&cad=b
That’s a Google search for “Jay Cicinelli.” I didn’t even type in “Fullerton” or any other search terms. All I typed was his name. Look for yourself and see what comes up. Heck, I was surprised that by the 10th page I didn’t see a result for some other guy who just happened to have the same name. But nope. I was curious and jumped ahead to the 30th page…even there, all the results listed were about Jay Cicinelli, one of the Fullerton cops who beat a man to death.
It’s only a matter of time before even an old lady in Idaho has heard about him.
There’s nowhere for him to hide. I suppose he could change his name and move to Tibet. But otherwise, he will always be known to the public as a murderer.
And if you think this will just “fade away”…you and I both know that once something is on the internet, it never goes away.
I know what you are saying. I was saying that I barely know anyones name in my neighborhood and I’ve never googled any of their names to see what I find. Probability becomes even lower in rural areas or places that a lot of cops move to when they retire. Yes, if we all google his name for this case. But most people won’t be doing it for fun. He might be noticed here or there, but even if most people saw him walking down the street in Fullerton right now with a hat and glasses on no one would even recognize him.
Gotta question for ya, Reality Is. Are you still at your place since all this shitstorm came about?
I SERIOUSLY doubt that Jay Cicinelli is in Fullerton or even Mira Loma right now, wearing a hat or otherwise. In fact, the last I had heard (on Fox News) was that some of the officers had moved into motel rooms…we can infer just who one of those officers is.
Jay Cicinelli might be psychotic, narcissistic, and a murderer…but he isn’t stupid. I highly doubt he’s hanging around in Fullerton right now, having a drink in the Slidebar. He’s miles away.
That still won’t help him for long.
I meant to say La Mirada. I don’t think he’s hiding in a closet in La Mirada, or in Fullerton having a drink at the Slidebar. He’s probably miles away from here.
Funny thing is when I did a google search on Jay Cicinelli a couple of weeks ago it showed a specific address in La Mirada on Los Alisos. I drove by and the place looked abandoned. I haven’t seen that address when I searched it yesterday, did you Chris?
By the way Reality Is, you seem to have been more neutral as opposed to what some may perceive your comments as ‘pro killer cops’. You have been citing a great deal of facts and I don’t believe you have made any sadistic-like statements as Jaynbond, who is either Jay Cicinelli or kin to. In other works REality Is, some of your input here is decent. Correct me if I’m wrong anyone.
Unfortunately you’re wrong. He has made numerous comments to the extent that Kelly got what was coming to him, that cleaning the homeless out of Fullerton is what the people (and presumably he) wants, etc.
check Whittier
maybe Whittier? the adress has been scrubbed on MyLife
FYI. Prone means face down. Supine means face up.
The LAPD is supposed to have pensioned Ofc Cincinelli off with a 70% pension. ‘If’ he was still getting the LAPD pension; in addition to his FPD salary, which itself includes a second pension, he must be about the highest paid street officer on the FPD, or any other Dept. Even if he cashed out LAPD’s pension in lieu of regular payments; he should still be quite well off, because in addition to his FPD salary, he would also be getting the interest, dividends and capital gains from the investments from the pension cash out. When he was hired by the FPD he must have been laughing … all the way to the bank.