How Dumb Do They Think You Are?
How dumb do the out-of-town anti-recall clowns think the people of Fullerton are?
Very, apparently.
On their laughable website they put up “proof” that I have taken money from Redevelopment. How so, you ask? By sharing the resolution approving my 1992 lease at the the Santa Fe Depot. These chowderheads highlight a paragraph indicating the Redevelopment Agency’s commitment to contribute 18% to the renovation of the depot. Thanks guys for proving my contribution to renovate the City-owned building was a whopping 82%, or $340,000!! Now does that sound like anybody gave me a dime?
Good God, those guys are dumb.
You paid $340,000?? And then you subleased the property??
Where’s the smoking gun?
Howdya git my pic-a-ture?
That’s pretty funny. Every single time they put something up it only makes them look stupider (if that’s possible). Plus links to FFFF end up taking any of their readers to damning stories about the Three Blind Mice with hilarious videos and caricatures.
I have talked with many of you, and I have decided to stop the Saturday protest in front of the Fullerton PD for now. The main reason is that the Police Department cannot do anything to the other four bad cops until the independent review is completed by Michael Gennaco. This might take many weeks/months. So, please take this time to take some time and enjoy life and your weekends for awhile, you deserve it. I will need all of you (Kelly’s Army) in the future. Like everything that I have done so far, it is all about timing, and now is the time to stop the protest.
http://ron.ktmf.org/what-did-the-other-four-officers-do-in-the-th
admin – will you confirm this and let us know thanks
if you click the link, it looks legit
but buttfuck those corrupt cops,
With john and ken coming to town this is probably the best time to continue protesting but I smell a huge “settlement” coming soon.
Can’t say the I’m not disappointed that things are going this way.
I predicted this on Sept 22nd.
You may need us in the future but we may not need you. See, this has gotten way too big for one guy to control. We are a city of 150,000 people with a police force that is acting like a corrupt occupying army, making up its own rules.
We now know this started long before the Thomas murder and its still going on. Ron, get back on the train whenever you fell like it.
Didn’t know McKinley did kiddie parties.
FR, you are one funny dude, my gut’s still hurting from laughing so hard…
Tony are you running? I thought Chris was incharge of the recall? What does redevelopment have to do with their lack of leadership?
No.
He is.
They have let Redevelopment run amok.
So why would they bring it up? This is just stupid.
To me it looks like the city got an almost free historic renovation.
If these anti-recall turds ever come to Fullerton they can see how great that building looks now.
So they highlight the paragraph that is supposed to make Tony look bad, then highlight Bankhead’s name at the bottom as one of the councilmembers voting in FAVOR of the agreement. Not against, but in favor.
Brilliant, just brilliant.
Ackerman is on there, too. Too funny!!
i have a ? is it true no protest on sat. need to know. do not think that vwe should quit . we need to keep up the pressure. also what about the slide bar . friday night and what time?
wait until admin confirms
It’s over Bob. *CHA-CHING* $,$$$,$$$
http://ron.ktmf.org/what-did-the-other-four-officers-do-in-the-th
Bob, I would wait until admin confirms
Ron has decided that the protest be stopped until further notice.
http://ron.ktmf.org/what-did-the-other-four-officers-do-in-the-th
How dumb do the out-of-town anti-recall clowns think the people of Fullerton are?
I don’t believe they are smart enough to think.
Arrrgh! Chalupsky should have fired Galvin, as he was supposed to do. Bill Winter, R.I.P. you tried….
If they had their way the whole city would look like Kelly Thomas’ face did
that protest is not ONLY for Ron or Kelly.. damn.. .. the people need justice.. if they want to protest then that is *their* right
You are right. Anybody who wants to protest should keep going.
Justice for Kelley means justice for everybody.
If Ron Thomas wants us to stop protesting his son’s murder, we will, however, we will be ever vigilant regarding the shenanigans in Fullerton. The OIR, (Office OF Independent Review), will be under OUR microscope. Any games played will be brought to light. Do WE make ourselves clear FPD, FCC, OIR, et al?
Ron Thomas Calls On ‘Kelly’s Army’ to Stop Protesting in Front of Fullerton Police Department
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2011/10/ron_thomas_calls_on_kellys_arm.php
I am confused.. deeply.
This is just heating up.. people are writing the media and trying to get more exposure..
We have said all along that they all want this to quiet down.. so that is what he is asking to have happen?
Not asking rudely but please give a good reason why anyone would ask people to take pressure off them? I think people felt very good about themselves and their expression of freedom and their constitutional rights to assembly and protest
ah well
and the OIR is connected to the DA just like the Police Unions are.. Aren’t they all government offices?
If people are not able to express their anger at the FPD and City Council by peacefully protesting outside the police station, that anger will be expressed elsewhere. Like at City Council meetings. Better expand that public comment section to 120 minutes.
The tragic death of Kelly Thomas started this movement but putting two or even three or even five cops in jail will not end it.
There is no need to be confused. Do what you think is right. If your heart tells you that justice has not been served then by all means protest.
Mr. Thomas is not the arbiter of your sense of right and wrong. Only you can be that. And remember, this is a police department that has been show to be corrupt from top to bottom: beatings, false arrests, perjury, theft, fraud, sexual assault, kidnapping, etc.
Personally I can see more reason than ever to protest.
I have a feeling they’re not going to put up barricades and FPD will probably start grabbing protesters now. KEEP VIDEO ROLLING IF YOU PLAN TO VISIT THIS WEEKEND.
I’m saddened by the turn of events but please remember that Ron Thomas isnt the victim of police brutality, Kelly is. This has always been about Justice for Kelly not Ron Thomas.
I applaud Ron for setting the ball in motion when he documented the injuries to his son but I do not agree with him giving up so quickly especially this movement is just catching steam.
Grabbing protestors for what? More future lawsuits? I believe even rogue outfits like FPD still need to at least have some pretense under which they arrest people. What would the charges be?
Right 9c1, we are watching and preparing.
I am still frightened by the fact that ANY police department in USA did not put those men on administrative leave IMMEDIATELY pending further investigation..
I am outta here
yes, im going to keep protesting, i dont like that the coppers have special “killing” priveleges and can get away with most everything without consequences- thats what im protesting and why not in a group wi-the problem is not just in fullerton but at least theres more then me walking around with a sign
hope to see you on saturday
BRING YOUR CAMERAS! The police is probably going to be aggressive since Ron isnt there.
Nicely said. I don’t like the killing privileges. I also don’t like the beating, maiming, kicking, punching, sitting on, choking, smacking, clubbing, unnecessary tasing, causing severe physiological and psychological trauma, sexually abusing, raping, stealing, false-arresting, and perjury privileges and the fact that they think that their shiny badge and taxpayer-funded weaponry entitle them to “respect” and subservience from the masses that they will only ever earn in their dreams.
Jt, you rock!
someone on the jon and ken site said they are embarrassed or something of that sort by this request
I want some valid answer as to why RT or his lawyer or whoever would even let a thought like this cross their minds… “weak-sauce”
ron was a cop… that whole department has abused Fullerton Citizenry like crazed lunatics..
I can’t get behind this .. it stinks of some wacko collusion
fwiw.. I am somewhat in the camp of those who do not like the fact that this will be a payout.. He doesn’t deserve money.. before Fullerton citizens deserve Justice and knowledge that allll bad cops have been removed
I have no problem with Ron Thomas being compensated by the city for the brutal murder of his son. It is a small measure of justice.
I would prefer he not settle though, that’s for sure. A civil court case in which all the evidence comes out is necessary for us to all know the truth about what happened that night.
There is nothing wrong with your thoughts. In a sense this day was going to come sooner or later. Ron wants justice for his son; we want justice for Fullerton. The FPD is totally corrupt.
Maybe it’s time to move on from Kelly to the broader picture: corrupt cops, including the 4 animals who piled on, kicked and punched Kelly as he was being murdered.
The obvious solution is to start putting our energies into the recall campaign to clean up our city.
still sounds like a deal cut with the city and his attorney to calm the streets so those poor wittle stores dont have to deal with the protestors.. oh woe is me..
Douchecakes is what those business owners are
I truly watched most all of that last city council meeting and am scared that humans voted those goons in.. The eye blousing crew .. you could see HeeHaws eyes and demeanor light up big when topics came up that would grease his palms.. vegas and his desire to have a brothel on every corrner.. he is a lunatic
No way would RT make this request without his handlers permission etc
^^^ needs to be on flyers handed out to business owners and people who voted for heehaw and mckinley and who support Chief Sellout
Honking their horns? *shrug
what? we have plenty o mouth without ron
The media will be advised immediately if they touch a hair on any protestors head and will attract a crowd with cameras – my first call would be to KFI if im grabbed by those gestapo
If im stopped for honking, that footage too, goes immediately for press release
The people of Fullerton have every right to continue to put the spotlight on the longstanding and pervasive culture of corruption in FPD and city government. Do not give up the fight for justice for ALL Fullerton residents! Justice for Kelly has been an amazing conduit for community organizing around a common goal. So many people across the nation and beyond have been inspired by you, myself included. Your courage and persistence is making a difference and bringing about positive change. Keep up the good fight, my Fullerton friends!
And you blessusall keep posting. That list of questions you posed the other day in response to the city attorney’s recitation of “the process” was right on the money. I wanted to ask those questions directly of the city council.
One day I will find a way to express why I feel so connected to this cause, although I imagine others who are connected understand without explanation. It is important on so many levels and not just for Fullerton but for us all. I cannot begin to tell you how inspired I have been to see the people keep showing up, speaking out, and standing up for justice–I watch the city council meetings and footage of the protests with awe, honestly, to see the turnout and how many people are still showing up three months after this began. Everywhere I go, I am talking about it and sharing it and passing it on because I want to believe that positive change can happen and that there are still people out there who have the courage of their convictions and have not given in to complete apathy.
this is personal-alot of citizens have been victimized by the very people we grew up believing to respect and trust and we even pay for-this is betrayal of the worst kind-its like getting punched in the face one day by your best friend for no reason
no respect for us-it ticks me off that they can do what they want to whoever, whenever and skate-the fact that in the government world that we pay for with tax money, will not believe anyone but their own-and its everywhere-like a cancer-this reminds me of the nazi regime where gestapo just shot people in the streets or dragged them off to beat and kill them in broad daylight in front of others and would kill anyone who stopped them, then they laughed and no one did anything to these monsters
The best support possible is for people from outside the area to set up their own blog equivalents and watchdog
groups to document police abuse and misconduct and political corruption wherever it arises.
Ask them!
btw.. sure he deserves something.. but like others have said.. I do wonder how long it had been since either was in contact with each other
More like a memorial fund is what is needed…
Don’t let the FPD and City Council kill your spirit the way they killed Kelly Thomas. Revoke the Killing Privileges.
I don’t know Ron that well but I have spoken to him a few times and Ive heard him speak in interviews, I just dont believe for 1 second that anyone could MAKE him say or do anything-least of all ant of those FPD criminals
As Ron stated, there is really no reason to continue the protest in front of the PD. Justice now lies with the civil court, the District Attorney and the FBI. As I have stated in the past, I will be VERY much surprised if the FBI does not file charges SOON, since the murder of Kelly Thomas was a human rights atrocity carried out by authoritarians of the state.
I can think of 3 good reasons off the top of my head why the protest should and will continue…
1. What about the 12 sexual assaults committed by 1 officer who is still on paid vacation. There is another lady who was sexually assaulted by Officer “Edgar” in 2009 but she still hasnt gotten any help. By the way, she shows up faithfully at every protest.
2. Chief Sellers keeps bilking the City of Fullerton out of thousands of dollars every month NOT to work.
3. Multiple officers have committed perjury, falsified police reports and placed numerous people under false arrest and some of those officers are patrolling the streets tonight!
This isn’t about Ron Thomas. It was never about Ron Thomas, its about Justice for Kelly and Justice for the Citizens of Fullerton.
Furthermore there is a lot more victims than Kelly Thomas and a lot more cops involved in criminal acts than the 6 involved in the beating.
If Ron thinks we’re just going to go away just because he says so, he’s got another thing coming and no it won’t be our hard earned tax payer money in his pockets.
WE WILL NOT REST UNTIL ALL SIX INVOLVED IN THE BEATING ARE JAILED, FIRED AND CONVICTED!
WE WILL NOT REST UNTIL ALBERT RINCON IS JAILED, FIRED AND CONVICTED FOR MOLESTING AND GROPING 12 WOMEN!
WE WILL NOT REST UNTIL CHIEF SELLERS IS FIRED AND JAILED FOR DEFRAUDING TAX PAYERS OUT OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS!
WE WILL NOT REST UNTIL THE FPD IS DISBANDED OR COMPLETELY CLEANED FROM TOP TO BOTTOM!
WE ARE KELLY THOMAS, WE ARE KELLY’S ARMY AND WE WILL HAVE JUSTICE!
Well stated! Agree 100%.
You will not reach your goals by standing on the sidewalk with protest signs, screaming and chanting at passing cars!
You’re so right my friend, it hasnt gotten us any results at all. The 6 cops involved are still on the streets and looks like the DA isnt even going to bother touching the case let alone investigating it.
I guess you win some and you lose some. Oh well I’m headed to the slidebar to party hard bro. Hope to see you there. I hear their food is to die for.
Is Ron counting the 900,000 as we speak? LOL
See ya in Acapulcooooo! Yeeha!
So long suckers! $_$
He’s got some nerve telling people not to protest in front of the police department as if he is THE and FINAL authority of what we do and where we protest.
Like the other guy said, there are other victims .
He could have said something like “I won’t be there” or “I’m moving on” but to tell people not to protest in front of the PD at all for any reason is kind of a dickheaded move.
I don’t know what happened over the past 24 hours but he obviously didnt think this through or he got one hell of a settlement.
that was the 1st offer, Hes gonna get alot more then that…….and as he should…….
I just wish it would come direct from those dirty 6 scum.
BROKE & BEHIND BARS
Jt:
“Resisting arrest.” 😀
Selling guns to gangsters in Mexico “Fast and Furious” is also a human rights violation
Yes, and for political purposes to boot!!
LOL.. TY 😛
That is why NOBODY should ever do anything to dampen their tenacity and spirit.. I am somewhat sickened by this request.
Hey ROSA PARKS.. sit the fuck down.. “ok”
No amount of green paper can silence The Movement that is spreading across the world. Some shall fall by the wayside, as the heavy hand of corruption is very manipulative and cunningly deceptive. However, the fire that rages within the hearts of the oppressed shall not be quenched; until the fall of every oppressive instrument, (fastened firstly in the mind). No weapon that is brought against us shall prosper!
Amen
Rosa had to sit down to give others the courage to stand up. That was her role, to get things started. This is not a sprint, but a relay race.
Maybe Ron is tired. He has been through a traumatic experience. Sometimes, when things are quiet I am caught unaware and will suddenly hear Kelly’s cries, “Dad! Dad! Dad!” and it grabs me in the gut. I will look at my daughter and see the image of Kelly’s broken and battered face and hear his cries and it breaks my heart and makes me afraid for her. It literally makes me physically ill to imagine what happened to Kelly happening to anyone, much less someone I love. If it has affected me so deeply, someone who does not know this man or his family, I cannot begin to imagine what it has done to him. He still has a long way to go to deal with his grief–sorrow, pain, regret, sadness. He did his part to get things started, the way Rosa did, the way Kelly did. Perhaps he will rejoin the race at some other point along the journey toward justice, but in the meantime, there is no reason to forfeit the race when it has only just begun.
“No, no, we will not be satisfied until justice rains down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.” MLK
“rolls” not rains
This math adds::
City 18% X 340000= 61200.
Bushala 82% X 340000=278800.
100% =430000.
Other math:: Bushala=430000.
City = 61200
Total =491200
Some what was the REAL/ACTUAL amount spent??
Dyslexia !! 4>3,3<4
still all screwed up ,should have stayed in bed longer.
It’s too late to do math where I am–I’m going to bed. 🙂
HA! We may be Kelly’s army but we’re not Ron Thomas’s soldiers.
When we go into a car dealership, and we accept being treated as if they are doing us a favor just for talking to us, we become their servants. When we go into a store, and the employees of said establishment, make us feel as if we should be honored to even have them pay attention to us, we become their servants. And, when the civil population, gives in to illegal pressures and regulations from the government, we become their servants.
Fullerton officials of every ilk, will be watching to see if we start waning in our determination to see justice served. If we do, then the system will know that our efforts go only so far; they, in turn, will only make the neccessary changes equal to or less than our resolve.
Well said. I bow to you.
We need more people like you in the world.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
Regarding my earlier blog, where I said stop protesting if Ron says so. I was WRONG. This protest is not only for Kelly, but ALL citizens, as we are as vulnerable. If we do not change the tide of illegal behavior of police departments nationwide, we are inviting the same thuggery to invade us in our very homes. I, for one, will never allow that to happen without a fight.
So, let’s keep on protesting, and letting FPD, FCC, et al, that we mean business. I will see all of you there Saturday. Semper Fi.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
I read Ron’s message as one of compassion, gratitude and common sense. I can see how it can be taken in some of the ways it has by some of the commenters here, but I feel he is not walking away from any fight nor asking anyone else to. The efforts made thus far by the protests have brought this to where it is now. This is not going away. Ron is not giving up and not asking anyone else to.
Sure there is massive corruption in this city, but it’s time to handle it in the courtroom not the street.
We have the worlds attention. We have blogs, youtube, city council meetings and news coverage. And by no means is this going to be silenced if the protest takes a break.
Just sayin.
Keep the heat on. Weak charges and a dirty department mean the show must pgo on. I gotta face my kids. Most of all i gotta face myself. I know what they did to Kelly. We all know. The light needs to stay on so the feds and gennnaco can’t go to sleep. I am not buying the window dressing. Any thoughts?
Well said once again, 9c1.
I’ll be there.
See you all at the protest Saturday.
Thomas Kelly’s dead, beaten to dead, but his soul is alive. He was the soul of an idea for many people who want to do things better, differently.
We have to prosecute all the murders and its protectors.
We have to recall these morally bankrupted politicans and city cronies.
We have to get rid all the morally corrupted city officials for good.
These corrupted leaders are only interested in themselves, not us.
Nobody can change but ourselves. It is about time.
Are you aware of this woman who has tried covering Kelly’s story? IMO she is best @ entertainment reporting. Some commenters are also giving her a hard time,which I don’t think she expected. We should either help her or someone else sign up to continue covering all the fpd murders,rapes and whatever the HELL else.
If people do not keep ALL of this going it will fade awy. So if not now, then when?
The enertainment reporter message was meant for admin….error on my part.
If Ron Thomas wants a respite from the Saturday protests, let him have it.
The death of Kelly Thomas, alledged by the District Atorney of Orange County to be a murder is dramatic. But it now sems to be only the culmination of a series of incidents that form a patern that identifies a culture in the Fullerton Police Department.
There are several incidents, but the key seems to be the Rincon case. This purportedly is a series of a dozen sexual assaults under the color of authority dating back to the time when Patrick McKinnely was Chief of Police. Two of the dozen cases are nearing settlement in civil court, which means 10 of the cases are not. The judge in the two cases has castigated the City of Fullerton for keeing the officer on duty through 12 felony complaints.
This case involves all of the status quo of Fullerton, from former Chief McKinley to the current hiding chief, to the police union, to the city attorney, to the city manager, to the various City Councilmen, to the Fullerton Observer and to the Orange County Human Relations Commission. If you protest the Rincon case, and investigate the roles of all involved, all who refused to become involved, and those that were clueless, then the other incidents and the Kelly Thomas murder will all fall into place.
Yes, and I see Ron as wanting the truth and justice and not giving up until he gets it.
Ron Thomas responded…
If you “Justice For Kelly Justice For All” would like to run your mouth about me, then have the “BALLS” to say it to me. What in the hell do you think your talking about when you say it’s not about Kelly? Keep it up people, and I will focus on my son ONLY, and then it will be up to you to do what you have done before me about the problems in YOUR city. NOTHING!!!!
Here’s how Ron Thomas thanks all you protestors!!! The money’s in his pocket and he can give a shit about any of you, just like he gave a shit about his son!!!! This is from HIS (Ron’s) blog!!!
shut up you dummy…Ron needs time and unlike all of us, hes still grieving a huge loss, and he didnt say BALLS to all the protesters.
I dont think at all, that he is ungrateful, you selfish chimp
leave him alone
Fool he didn’t say that, you made it up.
Bullshit. If he just wanted money you moron, he could have taken it a long time ago and disappeared. He has made it clear what his intentions are. And this IS about his son. To say it isn’t is a slap in his face.
http://ron.ktmf.org/
I’d like to address these three responses to my Blog Statement.
Joey writes:
“I organized the demonstration and put a good deal of work into it. I am sorry that you don’t think it is a good time but I will put my efforts into other causes. I was just very embarrassed when I promoted this and did as much as I could to get it going including legal planning to find out that I cannot do it on a blog indirectly”.
Yes Joey, you did organize a demonstration. On your own without talking to me AGAIN. I, like you found out about your plans indirectly. If you read all of the words again, you will see that I did not say that you cannot go through with YOUR plans, I said that I do not support them WITHOUT PROOF. I told you before Joey, work with me. Your a good person with a good heart. You just need to include me when you are doing something that involves Kelly or me. Talk to me first!
fullerton writes: “I am so disappointed that you’ve decided to take this route especially with John and Ken coming to town. I think it would have been wiser to hold out until 2 weeks after they came down so the momentum could keep going. I’m sure you have your reasons but I hope its not about money. Mr Thomas, please remember that the Fullerton PD is very corrupt and there are so many victims who have been framed, physically assaulted and sexually assaulted.You have a great opportunity to be a voice of reason against police brutality and mental illness so I beg you not to abandon this movement, please don’t turn your back on us and please forget about us. We can do SO much good if this continues.
What in the hell does John and Ken have to do with the Saturday protest. They are coming into town for the RECALL. And you need to explain to me what you mean by “I hope its not about money”. This really pissed me off. Let me remind you that my FIRST priority is my son. Remember Kelly? not about you. I have done a lot for everyone, including the City of Fullerton. I’m the one who got the Homeless Task Force started, Officer training, New and re-opened investigations for assault and brutality victims, the possibility to have a recall, I’m personally having many officers investigated, I am the one who called CH 5 and told them about Rincon who contacted the Federal Judge. Just before Tuesday nights City Council Meeting I went out and bought all of the rain gear that I could find, and gave it out to the homeless after the meeting. As far as turning my back on you and forgetting about you (again it suggest that this is about you and not Kelly) I’m not going away. I work every hour of every day planing my next moves. This includes figuring out how to make Fullerton a better place for everyone (and I don’t even live in Fullerton), taking apart the police department and then re-building it, working on all the ways that I can have charges placed on the other 4 cops, working with the FBI and the DA’s office, supporting the recall. What are YOU doing? So, don’t tell me that I’m not doing enough for YOU. Again, it’s about KELLY!
I want an answer to that money comment.
And, why don’t you use your real name?
MeYou: “He doesn’t have the right to ask anyone not to protest.”
You just don’t get it do you. What are you protesting? Give me a logical reason why we should be out there, and I will be there. Re-read what I wrote and see if it makes any sense.
Also, use your name, don’t hide behind “MeYou”.
I was really upset when he made that decision because I really misjudged his intentions but I’m going to back off.
Obviously this movement and the loss of his son really has taken it’s toll on him and to be honest I don’t like where things could be headed if it continues.
Now that I understand where he’s coming from I feel absolutely horrible for him and I really want him to take a rest for as long as he likes. He’s worked too damn hard.
In the meanwhile it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t still continue to be focused on the crimes and abuses that Fullerton has dished out on it’s citizens and getting Jones, Bankhead and McKinley recalled.
When Ron has time to rest and to properly mourn the death of his son, I think he will come back with the same passion that he had going into this but if not, that will be his decision to make and I will respect that.
He didn’t ask for this to happen, none of us did.
I am 100 percent behind Ron. He has accomplished alot for this city. I have been noticing alot of people turning on each other recently. A break would do us all good. In a war you don’t always just keep barging strait ahead . Some times it smart to hang back and think things out a bit. A rest from this would do us all good. We have been going for three months straight.Why don’t some of you show up for the candlelight walk tommorrow.Show that you are capable of more than just rage. Sometimes you can win others over by quietly showing that you have strong resolve. The candle vigil was canceled tonight due to bad weather but I was there and walked with four others rain or shine. Lets stay together and not start throwing out a lot of loose words. We can accomplish a lot together as a team.
youre right
I have been listening to many of your Blogs about Kelly Thomas and how he had done nothing wrong to die in the way he did, and yes true that he didn’t deserve to die, but did he do anything wrong to get question by the cops.. YES he was accused of searching and checking handles of car doors to see if they where open.. And how do I feel about his parents.. Get ready because this is how I see it and he can damn me tell me I know nothing, and since that won’t work he can “BLAH BLAH BLAH” to himself because I have a right. To freedom of speech as he does and everyone else.. Ok now here it is..Ron you claim it aint about the money but of your son you so love and is being missed then tell me this.. Why is your son labeled as a homeless schizophrenic transit?! Harsh I know but why?, you claim to love and care for him and yet he was in the streets with no medication, no proper food, no safe place to sleep not to mention a restraining order against him by his very own mom in fear for her safty, but not ever giving one rats behind about the very people that crossed his path on a daily basis not even knowing of his mental state, for FYI schizophrenia that goes untreated
can be not only a danger to the general public but himself and his and his mind set (5150).. I feel that if he was in proper care and treatment the out rage the world feels would not be of your son but of whatever else that is going on in this world…this is just what I feel about all this mess that I’m sure could have all been prevented if only the parents of this 37 year old mentally ill kid would have pleaded to a judge to get power of attorney over him so that treatment could have benefited him and his safty..not to mention the people that had no clue of his capabilities….
OK, Blah, blah, blah. (-:
Now that that is out of the way: Two points.
1. Ron took care of Kelly for years as best he could. We should all remember that Kelly was homeless by choice (No one is saying it was a good choice, but it was Kelly’s choice.), and after years and years of trying, Ron had to back off because he had no right to force anything on a person who was legally an adult and didn’t want to cooperate. Don’t fash him for not doing something he wasn’t legally allowed to do. (Fash is Scottish for ‘berate’, not a misspelling of ‘bash’.) (Some say there was a restraining order by Ron against Kelly. Kelly may have been sick, but not so sick he didn’t know what would happen if he broke the court order. Additionally, neither Ron or anyone else who reads these blogs is a machine. Sometimes you have to back off to live your own life. I can imagine how Kelly may have been, and probably was troublesome, and I can understand why after years and years Ron felt that he needed to spend time living his own life, not Kelly’s who reportedly wouldn’t cooperate with anyone about anything. Again, that was Kelly’s choice. People get tired and frustrated. People can help, but none have the right to play G*d with someone else’s life.) (Yeah, yeah, yeah, government agencies do try to play G*d at times and we all can see how well that isn’t working, but what else do we have?)
2. I’ve heard about the alleged call about someone trying car handles in the parking lot. This question has two parts: A. Where is the record of who made the call and what was the content of the call if there was one, and B. Allegedly Kelly, personally, was never specifically mentioned in reference to the alleged call, so whay was he singled out, just because he was homeless?
Even if you give the worst answers possible to the above questions, it’s no excuse to murder Kelly by police or anyone else.
Victim-blaming.
Again.
izlag, shame on you to attack a grieving father…
i pray you never have to endure what the thomas family has been through.. please read up on schitzophrenia, and maybe you will better understand… you CANNOT force an adult child into treatment!!! until you have walked in someones shoes, you have no right to be so hateful..
again!! shame on you!!! think before you speak!!!
SAD.. He at least had a true mental disease.. you YOU need to get diagnosed
you are sicker than jaynbond and all of BCC..
WHERE WREE THE FUCKING HANDCUFFS YOU COWARDS.. ALL OF YOU .. COWARDS.. i WOULD FIGHT ALL SIX OF YOU AND THEN LOCK YOU IN CELLS WITH GIANT GAY MEN
Gangbangers don’t even brutalize and torture like the FPD6 did… cowards..
tell me again
WHERE WERE THE HANDCUFFS.. pussies
6 grown men MURDERED a 160lb?? schizophrenic and you have the fucking nerve to imagine anyone else is at fault but them.. /SPIT!
Whether homeless or not, mentally ill or not, loved by his family or not, Kelly Thomas did not deserve to be beaten and tortured to death by ANYONE, let alone police officers.
WOW.. he sounds like the DA.. without PROOF?
what the fuck..
any good cop would have come to the scene the DA described and shot both cincinelli and ramos in their legs to stop them from murdering Kelly
Goodbye
Dude is a an ex cop and it shows
same as above
Getting back to the blog topic…
The people on that idiotic anti-recall website are getting more pathetic and desperate every day. Their way of trying to show that Tony is “corrupt” and “getting money” from the city is by dredging up something from 1992!
1992! Geez…I had to read that date several times just to be sure it wasn’t a typo or some kind of mistake. That was almost 20 years ago!
I’m trying to just think of how long ago that was. In 1992, I was in middle school. I would have been a little 14 year old kid, sitting at home in my pajamas watching cartoons and the Nickelodeon channel, and playing Sonic The Hedgehog on my Sega Genesis.
Jesus.
1992…there was no Internet. Most people didn’t have computers. Cell phones were almost non-existent (They would have still been called “car phones” at that time). Some of the blog commenters here might not have even been born yet.
And the anti-recall idiots dug up something from THAT long ago to make their case?!
If Tony was as bad as they try to claim he is, then why couldn’t they find anything else in the past…oh, 20 years!
Then there’s also the simple fact that it doesn’t show anything one bit. The city was paying part of the renovation costs for a building that THEY owned! How the heck does it show that Tony got any benefit from it?
How stupid can they be?
just goes to show you, they are stuck in the good ol’ days… probably been asleep the past 20 yrs, so they have no clue what to say… LOL
Yup. When I first saw the date that Tony posted, I thought it had to be a mistake. But then I looked at the screen shot of the document, and I saw that it was indeed signed on July 8, 1992.
I was like…what the hell???
If it seems absolutely ridiculous to other people here, just imagine how it must seem to people my age or younger. In July of 1992, I was just out of 8th grade.
That’s the best they can do? Seriously?? Dig up something from 20 years ago, which doesn’t even show that Tony did anything wrong?
How old are the people running the anti-recall site, anyway? They must be senile.
@mmmm shame on me no shame on them, true no he could not put a grown adult by force in treatment and its spelled schizophrenia and to read up on it…no I can do better then that, I have worked for a mental facility for Seven years dealing with schizophrenic, and bipolar residents so I do know what I speak of and also know that there are ways legal ways that they could of helped, and as for me walking in there shoes, how about you walking in mine, I have a grown adult child who suffers from bipolar / psychosis with audio and visiual halucination so I guess you can say my child had been blessed to have a support system and when all fails homeless is not a label or a title that would be put and as far as being insensitive about voicing my opinion, I truly believe that he would be alive had he gotten the proper treatment along with family support that he so deserved…but fear of the unknown is always ruler of evil
You may have worked in a ‘mental institution’ but the money involed in getting the kind of custodial control over another citizen, sick or not, is out of reach of the finances of most people. But you wouldn’t know anything about that since all you did was collect your check and ‘follow orders’.
(Sorry. Your hard heartedness and ignorance is astounding.)
People have a tendency to oversimplify very complex problems. So I will post again what is actually a very basic response in the paragraphs below. I will add that Kelly died because he was beaten by a group of 6 Fullerton police officers. If his homelessness or mental illness played a role in his death it has to do with the perspective and the motives of the police officers who will make as a target of their brutality someone who has less social power, lower perceived social status, is marginalized and disenfranchised, who is powerless, and who has no real voice and they do this because–they can. They see someone like Kelly Thomas as worthless and disposable, someone who is not credible in the event that they survive a brutal beating and are less likely to be believed even if they have the resilience to step forward and speak up. They choose vulnerable people who they see as nonthreatening to THEM. It is what makes it particularly despicable, really.
Not every person with schizophrenia has a disease process that takes the same course. There are, in fact, varying degrees of severity of mental illnesses, just as there are varying degress of severity of medical problems. Science does not yet understand why this is or even what exactly causes it. Not every person responds the same way to medications, either, which is why there are so many and why some people have to go through years of trying different meds, or new meds, in a hope to find one that helps them to be stable.
Kelly Thomas had a type of schizophrenia that is severe and chronic. I wish I could go into more about that because I would love to help people understand it in a way that would keep them from blaming him or his family for his mental illness. I have worked with people diagnosed with schizophrenia and some who would not stay in a house, probably due to paranoid delusions, auditory and visual hallucinations. Sometimes, for instance, they are convinced that the house has been “bugged” and so they will not stay in that house. You can put them in another house and eventually, they come to believe that they are being watched and followed and monitored there as well. They also may believe that whoever these nefarious people are who are after them are going to attempt to poison their food. So they don’t stay in a house where they think someone could find out where they live and then do these things to them. They are afraid.
I recently worked with a woman who had her first psychotic break at 13. She is now close to 40. She has a family who loves her. They want her to stay in their home with them. But she is convinced that there are people in the attic and she also has very vivid visual hallucintions of a group of people that she believes are paid by the government to go around bashing in people’s heads in a field next door to her parents home. (Please note these are hallucinations and not FPD police officers). She won’t stay there. So they got her an apartment, but eventually, she became convince that these same things were happening. If she left her apartment to go somewhere, she would be convinced that someone had come in and poisoned the food and water supply. So she left there. We got her into a group home…same thing. She has been on every medication there is to treat schizophrenia, and although she sometimes shows improvement, she has fixed delusions and auditory and visual hallucinations that never go away. Her current plan is to “just keep moving,” stay at one shelter one night, another the next, spend a couple of days in the hospital, and so forth, just to stay one step ahead of these people who are after her. She also believes she “hears” other people’s thoughts and sometimes hears people thinking and planning awful things against her; she has been convinced that she heard me plotting against her–and I can assure you, I was not. So even though I am a person who cares about her, she doesn’t trust me because her thought disorder causes her to hear what she says is my negative thoughts about her.
In the end, it does not matter what Kelly’s parents did or did not do in terms of what happened to him. Their actions did not cause the actions of the F6 no matter how much you try to connec that to them. Whether homeless or not, loved and cared for by family or not, mentally ill or not, there is no justification for a man to be beaten to death by law enforcement officers the way Kelly Thomas was.
Really well said!! (Bangs shoe on table!!!)
^^^ posted 2 am this morning, for any responses you may like to send, or not…
idiot is gone by now..
@ meyou, lol you say I need to be diagnose, the way you responded to my view it just goes to show you who need more of a diagnosis then I!! I at least was only voicing my opinion you clearly showed much more then a response.. But hang in there I’m sure a straight jacket will be in your near future, you nut job, and where did I say in my opinion that I don’t think the cops arent at fault. See if you get your head out of your favorite dark place you would had came at me with better senses, so since you like blowing maybe it will be you locked with the big gay guys… So stop self medicating your self and see a doctor and get. Real meds
oops sorry jeffery, that posting was meant for izlag, not you….
NP (-:
i am getting mixed signals is there a protest sat or what? i will be threr if so. merijo are you going to be there? also 91c willsee you there………………………… justice for kelly and justice for all………………………………..
I dont know, Im getting mixed messages, I do plan to continue protesting for the sheer police brutality that goes on everywhere in America, whether of not Ron Thomas is not going to be there is not really an issue or should be
> I do plan to continue protesting for the sheer police brutality that goes on everywhere in America
I support this 100%.
…and I agree with you completely.
Working for justice for Kelly AND working against police brutality are not mutually exclusive from each other.
You have plenty of examples of it right here in Fullerton apart from Kelly Thomas.
Ron Thomas is our ally, not our leader.
Good point.
Izlag,
YOU are NO expert on Mental Illness!!!
First off, if you were, you wouldn’t have posted such a heartless message. That is the #1 attribute of a good mental health caregiver; a BIG HEART.
Another thing is all mental illnesses are different. ie. One person with Schizophrenia could have different behaviors than another. A person with Bipolar II could have different behaviors than another with Bipolar II, and so on….
YOur adult child with bipolar probably and most likely had a different personality and behavior than Kelly did with his Schizoprenia.
Your son probably NEVER had the desire to be a ‘drifter’ and live on the streets and at others peoples places like Kelly. Your son is probably the opposite and would prefer being with you or his mom or dad (not sure if you are male or female) and would feel scared to be out on the streets. My 17 year old is like that and diagnosed with Bipolar II, with psychotic features. His problem for instance is just that. He is too dependent on me. I won’t have to worry about him being ever being homeless (most likely). I’ll bet yours is the same way.
And if Ron Thomas was in it for the money, why did he turn down $900,000. of hush money? Because he wants JUSTICE more than anything.
Also, Ron Thomas did have Conservatorship (power of attorney) over Kelly. He told me how to go about getting that for my son, which is how I know, so your facts are convoluted.
With all that said Izlag, I have respect for any parent that has to care for their MI child, so I’m glad to hear you got things seemingly under control but since you worked in a mental facility, I’m a little perplexed at your claims about Ron Thomas actions as a parent..?
One other fact you may not have known, was Cathy the mother got a restraining order on Kelly (her son) so he could get arrested and placed in a mental facility through the county system; the least costly way for adult treatment. Ron was out of town when she did that and wished that she would have called him first. Apparently he had other ideas.
Again, I’m glad to hear you’ve got your son in a good place.
I’m going out on the limb here, but I’m guessing you are female since you are SO critical and presumtious. Sorry other females out there, but in my middle-age, I’ve noticed the women are more inclined to judge and criticize when it comes to parenting, especially.
Please let me know if I was correct in that assumption and continued good luck with your son.
Not every person with schizophrenia has a disease process that takes the same course. There are, in fact, varying degrees of severity of mental illnesses, just as there are varying degress of severity of medical problems. Science does not yet understand why this is or even what exactly causes it. Not every person responds the same way to medications, either, which is why there are so many and why some people have to go through years of trying different meds, or new meds, in a hope to find one that helps them to be stable.
Kelly Thomas had a type of schizophrenia that is severe and chronic. I wish I could go into more about that because I would love to help people understand it in a way that would keep them from blaming him or his family for his mental illness. I have worked with people diagnosed with schizophrenia and some who would not stay in a house, probably due to paranoid delusions, auditory and visual hallucinations. Sometimes, for instance, they are convinced that the house has been “bugged” and so they will not stay in that house. You can put them in another house and eventually, they come to believe that they are being watched and followed and monitored there as well. They also may believe that whoever these nefarious people are who are after them are going to attempt to poison their food. So they don’t stay in a house where they think someone could find out where they live and then do these things to them. They are afraid.
I recently worked with a woman who had her first psychotic break at 13. She is now close to 40. She has a family who loves her. They want her to stay in their home with them. But she is convinced that there are people in the attic and she also has very vivid visual hallucintions of a group of people that she believes are paid by the government to go around bashing in people’s heads in a field next door to her parents home. (Please note these are hallucinations and not FPD police officers). She won’t stay there. So they got her an apartment, but eventually, she became convince that these same things were happening. If she left her apartment to go somewhere, she would be convinced that someone had come in and poisoned the food and water supply. So she left there. We got her into a group home…same thing. She has been on every medication there is to treat schizophrenia, and although she sometimes shows improvement, she has fixed delusions and auditory and visual hallucinations that never go away. Her current plan is to “just keep moving,” stay at one shelter one night, another the next, spend a couple of days in the hospital, and so forth, just to stay one step ahead of these people who are after her. She also believes she “hears” other people’s thoughts and sometimes hears people thinking and planning awful things against her; she has been convinced that she heard me plotting against her–and I can assure you, I was not. So even though I am a person who cares about her, she doesn’t trust me because her thought disorder causes her to hear what she says is my negative thoughts about her.
In the end, it does not matter what Kelly’s parents did or did not do in terms of what happened to him. Their actions did not cause the actions of the F6 no matter how much you try to connec that to them. Whether homeless or not, loved and cared for by family or not, mentally ill or not, there is no justification for a man to be beaten to death by law enforcement officers the way Kelly Thomas was.
As a woman I am not inclined to criticize and judge even those who are insensitive, critical and judgmental, including in respect to parenting skills. Otherwise, I think your response to izlag was respectful and therefore more likely to be constructive. As I’ve said before, sometimes people oversimplify very complex problems.
That evil clown is very disturbing, unlike the jovial and good-natured clowns Bankhead, Jones, and McKinley.
I’ve given this much thought and I know Ron is an extremely well mannered man who genuinely wants justice for his son which why I find it odd that he would suddenly and unexpectedly change tactics and discourage any and all protest in front of the police dept.
As other bloggers have pointed out, his son isn’t the only victim of this corrupt department and he knows this.
I can only think of three reasons why he made this decision.
1) Stress. These protests and demonstrations have been going on for months and he just wants time to rest, regroup and rethink things.
2) Threats, fear and intimidation. It’s possible someone threatened Ron or his family with violence (remember he has other children to worry about) or dug up a lot of dirt on him and is threatening to go public with it.
Three things worries me about the timing of this. 1) About a week ago he said he was being harassed by La Habra Police Department and was going to talk to the chief about it. 2) the large rogue law enforcement group “The BCC” recently got involved 3) Manny Ramos is out on bail.
3) Money. I really don’t think he would suddenly and unexpectedly bail if he got a settlement offer. This aspect goes against everything I know about Ron and everything he’s stood for since the beginning.
If it is indeed stress. I understand his viewpoint as a father but I do not agree with his notion that he and only he has a say on how people speak out about what happened to Kelly (or) about other abuses involving the police department.
As a resident of Fullerton I am scared of this department and once they see us backing down and once the TV cameras go away, I fear that they are going to go after prominent protesters like myself with full force.
The people who have been members of Kelly’s army won’t be able to walk, drive or live in Fullerton without being harassed by these thugs.
We’ve moved ahead too far to just walk away. We cannot walk away. There will be 5 more Kelly Thomas’s in the coming years if we simply back off.
If Ron wants to step away I respect that decision and I feel horrible for the loss of his son. Like I said earlier, he didn’t ask for this and no one else involved in this fight did.
Only time will tell what has happened within the last 48 hours but I hope he continues to be at the forefront of this movement and not a wall that hinders or stifles it.
Kelly Thomas isn’t the first or last victim of Fullerton PD. They just happened to get caught this time.
How about we all just stay the fuck out of Ron Thomas’s business and stop analyzing his every word and every move. None of it matters in the slightest. Kelly Thomas was murderd by Fullerton police officers. Veth Mam was falsely arrested and beaten. Edward Quinonez was falsely arrested and beaten. The Ramirez kid was falsely arrested and imprisoned. Those are just the latest headlines. God knows how many others have been falsely arrested and beaten, abused, sexually abused, etc..
Protest on Sat or not, this movement continues until EVERY ABUSIVE COP in FPD is fired or hopefully looking at the inside of a jail cell. Then it goes to the next city. It never stops.
In the meantime can we stop wondering about Ron Thomas’ motives or actions. Totally irrelevant to what needs to be done.
here here to the fucking 10th power. Just a bunch of deginerative a holes who know they or their hero’s are criminals and theyve been caught redhanded so the aholes are attempting to lay blame, and to them i say bite me
Revoke the FPD Killing Priveleges.
Yep.
Agree 100%!
Dad To ‘Kelly’s Army’: Take A Break From Fullerton Police Protests
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/10/07/dad-to-kellys-army-take-a-break-from-fullerton-police-protests/
JT, well spoken once again. It’s everyone’s individual porogative whether or not they want to protest or not.
Ron would not take offense to anyone protesting in front of FPD since what happened to his son as well as his vigilance, brought out many other cases to the forefront of FPD midconduct.
You were absolutely right not wondering what Ron’s motives. They’re all good I’m sure.
I plan on being there for some time tomorrow.
If you actually look into what Ron said (Sorry JT 🙂 ) its clear as day…
“I have decided to stop the Saturday protest in front of the Fullerton PD for now. “
and…
“Like everything that I have done so far, it is all about timing, and now is the time to stop the protest.”
“You just don’t get it do you. What are you protesting? Give me a logical reason why we should be out there”
The problem I have with his posts is all in the wording. He doesn’t have take part in the protests but to tell everyone to stop protesting and wait for the Gennaco investigation (which could take months) seems a bit short sighted because that particular investigation only addresses two specific issues 1) The kelly thomas beating 2) If the 6 officers involved in the beating violated policy.
It does not cover other issues like the criminal and civil rights issues or the other unrelated cases like the sexual assaults, perjury, beatings and so forth.
I really wish he thought this through and at least worded it differently. I have a feeling he didn’t consult with his lawyer first When he made that announcement it partially destroyed the movement. Now when cop-lickers see us out there, they’re going to say crap like “Even ron doesnt want you here. Go home! Get a life!”And I’m sure the FPD is going to be heavy handed so keep video rolling if you show up Saturday.
I think the key lesson is don’t put all of your eggs in one basket and I’m guilty of doing that with Ron Thomas but I do agree with your point about it being everyone’s individual prerogative.
i plan on going by and probaly protest it needs to be done keep up the pressure. justice……………………………………………………………..
Fullerton Police Chief Accused of Contract Violation for Living in San Clemente
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-chief-sellers-contract-violation,0,2894491.story
Did Fullerton Police Chief Michael Sellers Violate His Contract By Not Moving To Fullerton From San Clemente?
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2011/10/did_fullerton_police_chief_mic.php
It say’s “make a bona fide effort” which is not the same as requiring an actual relocation.
Dear Beloved Fullerton City Councils, employees, and officials;
You’re so vain, you prob’ly think this song is about you. You’re so vain…The glee on his face is testament to the enormous ego that possesses the Fullerton City Officials.
If, in a 5 years from now, anyone is walking around remember Don Bankhead, Gary Chalupsky, R. Fox, and its cronies, then this city is worse off than I thought it was!
5 years from now? At the rate we’re going, there’s a good possibility that none of us will be around. Maybe the cockroaches…..in Fullerton City Hall and Police Dept.
We wish you are so actively involve in Kelly Thomas when he was beaten to death by your thugs.
You are much worse than we thought. Simply disgrace beyond word.
it sure sounds like we need to continue every saturday until we completely remove all the crud from fullerton. i hope i see all of you tomorrow………………………….
http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-320990-officers-leave.html
heres Rons reason, maybe change your signs to protest the corupt pd…
“Right now, we have two guys charged and in the criminal justice system,” Ron Thomas said Friday on why he called off the protests.
Thomas wants to see what comes out of the FBI’s and Fullerton’s investigations before deciding when, or if, the protests will resume.
all of you that said you would be there sat, i hope you still will i am coming by to see if vany one is there hope to see a lot of you there…………. justice for all and kelly……………………..
This is in response to all your response on my insensitive embarrassing thought. First of all I know I am probably alittle late for this now but I need to apologize to all of who I have offended for the way I expressed myself for at the time I was feeling so sure but have to say some of you have such a powerful mind and a very true reality check point of view the post I had no right and from my heart I do apologize… Ron if you are reading this please believe me when I say I meant you and your family no harm although it is really hard to tell, I had spoken about you and yours like I had the right to…you and your family have been through so much know I hadn’t nor will I ever feel the right to place my stupid insensitive no thought in what I. Was saying… So again please everyone family friends supporters Ron and ur family and to you Kelly Thomas May you rest in peace with please forgive my post and justice comes for all involved
It’s never too late to do the right thing.
It takes a big person, in both mind and heart, to be able to acknowledge an error.
Move over. I’ll stand shoulder to shoulder with you anytime. (-:
Izlag: If your apology is sincere, then I must say I respect your willingness to consider other points of view and new information and allow the possibility of a change of heart.
I know some might find it hard to believe that I am deeply sincere, also embarrassed of those post..i wish I could go back and write a more positive compassionate post that addresses a more encouraging posts but as I scroll through this Blog site I so Get upset with my self and feel like I was acting no better then the
FPD making a accusation claim that could have left me in a state of devastation if K.Thomas family done Something that lead to a
Death of one who like Kelly Thomas that didn’t deserve.. So believe me I won’t be quick to judge or even quick with my thought.. So again I am truly sorry and that is sincere… Oh to answer a question. From one persons post.. Yes I am a women but it isn’t a son it a daughter who does suffer from bipolar with audio and visual hallucinations.. And for the most part I know it isn’t the same as schizophrenic but it does put somewhat of a holt but she is living a somewhat normal life but challenges now with a new diagnosis of Keratoconus…she is basically losing her eye sight.. But enough of my family.. I hope the best for those who rally Saturday and there safty…
I keep thinking about the Nordell incident where the FPD conducted the raid on a wrong private residence.
This raid was conducted by at least four undercover investigators but was not reported to higher FPD authority for five days.
Raises a lot questions:
1.Who was incharge of this raid?
2.What was the highest ranking officer that participated in the raid?
3.Was a female officer a raid team member?
4.How many other raids have been conducted and not reported to higher authority?
Perhaps, members of this raid have been conducting raids on suspected and actual drug dealers with impunity knowing that their targets do not have recourse.
Some of what acting chief Hamilton stated at the city council meeting is rather bothersome. His comments need closer review in light of the CHAIN OF COMMAND AUTHORITY, it appears to be very weak to nonexistent in the FPD.
i have the utmost respect for ron t. but i feel that we need to keep up the pressure on fpd if we do not then we have lost the momentum and no charges will be brought against the rest of thefpd thugs and there will be no convictions and for fpd it will be business as usual and no one will be safe in fullerton ca………………….. let us get back to regular business on sat………… justice for all………..