The Murder of Kelly Thomas
For months FPD spokeshole Andrew Goodrich has been telling the public that Kelly Thomas fought with the police, that there was an “altercation.” That was the Big Lie of course, but the lazy cowards who still work for the OC Register were only too happy to pass that along in their cavalier description of what we knew happened all along: a cold blooded murder. At first they characterized it as a scuffle and a tussle. Then they decided that “fight” was just about right.
Here’s a vide that captures some of the chilling truth about what happened. But not all of the truth, because that is still being withheld from us, and that is why the public should see the video for themselves, with no more self-serving interpretations from the cops.
Yes very chilling.
So when will Goodrich be fired for lying?
And when will Lou Fonzi apologize for being such a scruples-free tool?
“So when will Goodrich be fired for lying?”
When McKinley says so.
Funny thing about the Register. I noticed that it truly is printed on yellow paper. Just leave it in the sun for a couple of hours and presto. Lou Ponzi -is that his real name? Wonder what he turns into if you leave him out in the light for a while?
How many people work inside the FPD building?
Everytime I go there, the parking lot is packed with cars but there is no sign of activity from the outside. In fact there are more private vehicles than police vehicles.
Is there a basement where people work?
Perjury! and Karma will get him eventually -for 100% sure
twitter from steve at kfi:
KFINEWSKFI NEWS
SG here-Ron Thomas says he’s been harrassed by officers from his hometown of Cypress #kellythomas
7 minutes ago
KFINEWSKFI NEWS
SG here-Ron Thomas says he’s been in fear for his life – made eye contact with Ramos in court, said her looks like a coward #kellythomas
10 minutes ago
KFINEWSKFI NEWS
Steve here-Atty for Manual Ramos says his client faced a dangerous convicted felon the night of the be
15 minutes ago
KFINEWSKFI NEWS
More on: Fullerton Cop Plea http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/NEWS.html?article=9160026
16 minutes ago
KFINEWSKFI NEWS
Steve here-Manual Ramos has been on suicide watch, judge orders 1 mil dollar bail to remain in place #kellythomas
24 minutes ago
KFINEWSKFI NEWS
Steve here in Santa Ana-Fullerton cop Manuel Ramos pleads not guilty in 2nd degree murder chg #kellythomas
30 minutes ago
I hope Ron Thomas carries a video camera with him.
Jesus christ, they’re going after Ron?
Wow, they’re literally a gang with badges.
KFINEWSKFI NEWS
SG here-OCDA says he expects case to go to trial within a year- no plea deal #kellythomas
1 minute ago
Officer pleads not guilty in Kelly Thomas’ death
Bail for Ramos remained at $1 million and a pretrial hearing was set for Nov. 4.
http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-318968-ramos-rackauckas.html
Meany Ramos looks like The Great Pumpkin in that orange jumpsuit.
Kelly Thomas case: Officer pleads not guilty, on suicide watch
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/09/kelly-thomas-officer-arraigned.html
suicide watch? was he comptemplating suicide before he got thrown into jail for murdering someone? I dont think hes depressed about anyone but himself
i agree merijoe, why would an inoccent man be on suicide watch..
You put someone on “suicide watch” when you don’t want to have to publicly admit that you are putting him in “even more protective custody”. I think that the OCSD is going to make it difficult for the conspirators to silence Officer Ramos by killing him in jail and making it look like a suicide.
It is not that Officer Ramos is an “innocent man”, so much as it is that others are far more guilty, and Officer Ramos is likely the one who can provide evidence that proves a part of a prior conspiracy to murder.
For most operas: “It ain’t over till the Fat Lady sings.” For this drama: “It ain’t over till the Fat Patsy sings.” I hope that Officer Ramos proves to be a great Lyric Tenor. WSH
Not assuming anything here just some info.
According to the Partnership at drug fee.org in regards to steroid use:
Side effects specific to men can include testicular atrophy or the shrinking of the testicles, reduced sperm count, infertility, baldness, and the development of breasts.
An increase in androgenic (male) hormones may also lead to aggressive behavior. Research also indicates that steroid users often suffer from paranoid jealousy, extreme irritability, delusions, and impaired judgment stemming from feelings of invincibility..
Anabolic steroid users may become dependent on the drug, with symptoms of withdrawal after cessation of drug use. The withdrawal symptoms consist of aggressive and violent behavior, mental depression with suicidal behavior, mood changes, and in some cases acute psychosis.
remember stay drug free and stay out of jail!!
About the only thing one can conclude from this is that Fullerton PD tolerates a liar as their spokeperson. I didn’t hear Goodrich retract his statement that Fullerton cops who “tussled” with Kelly suffered broken bones. At the very least, if a spokesperson of any organization with integrity made a false public statement he or she would retract it as soon as it was determined to be false AND would tell the public what prompted the error. To my knowledge, Goodrich never did that. And that should tell all of us everything we need to know. The puzzle fits together perfectly.
Reading through these blogs has been quite amuzing. I love this last youtube video. FFFF have absolutely no sense of reality. Its only the same few bloggers here that continue to write the same things over and over.
These blogs contain comments that clearly show the ignorance that is out there. The same sort of people that depend on accurate news from Satruday Night Live and the Enquirer.
I am a resident of Fullerton and my children are in the Fullerton School District. I am sickened to think that Chris Thompson is part of our school’s leadership and I will do everything in my power to remove him from his position.
Tony Bushala – you accuse Goodrich of being a liar yet you continue to put out false information in every single topic! You are nothing but a bully and a pompous “A Hole”. You still haven’t done a single thing for the homeless have you. Get off your ass and do something you moronic little twit.
I am sickened to think you have children-period.
What is the proof you have that show Tony as a liar and a bully who puts out false info?
who are you? a relative/friend/employee of that demonic person?
nothing you say has any merit and you are the one they should make an SNL skit about
Maybe your children can teach you how to spell “amuzing”. The only thing that’s amuzing is you not getting how much of a moron you are.
Allen = bag of rocks
#1: what have I lied about?
#2: I am not on the public payroll as an official spokesman who spins out stories to protect his union brethren.
Admin asked: “what have I lied about?”
Is it a lie to knowingly publish a false claim and then fail to correct that false claim even as it becomes accepted as fact? I think that it is.
I am of course talking about the infamous “Missing Call” blog entry posted by FFF on Sept. 1, 2011, in which it was said that FPD records obtained via an FOIA request revealed that the call reporting a homeless man looking into cars was “missing.” This led to nearly 500 comments, the majority of which asserted that a crime had been committed and that the ‘missing call’ was part of a larger conspiracy involving not just a cover-up, but some went so far, and still do, of using the ‘missing call’ of evidence of a premeditated targeted hit on Thomas, launched in cooperation with the FPD by the Slidebar owners. Just the other day it was stated on this site that the Slidebar shoud be “burned to the ground.”
And yet there was no missing call, and the evidence FFF provided to support that there was turned out to be bogus, simply a log of actual crimes reported. At the time Gonzo, Esq. and I both pointed out the error, and that one would need to see the Dispatch Log to find the ‘missing call,’ and yet our point was ignored and the story, more like tall tale, was allowed to stand.
Now we see in the DA’s material that investigators did indeed obtain the Dispatch Log and audio from that night, and lo and behold, we are also told that the DA’s office apparently found the ‘missing call’ right where Gonzo, Esq. and I said it would be.
So what’s the deal Tony? Why no correction even as folks here continue to work themselves up into a lather over a false assertion by FFF that quickly became accepted as fact?
As an aside: Aren’t you concerned about your part in all of this should the Slidebar actually burn down one night? If not you might want to consult with an attorney.
Oh big deal.
Your assertion about FFFF being responsible for any mishap to the Slidebar is just stupid. Slidebar enemies here always believed there WAS a call (fraudulent) – not that there wasn’t a call at all.
Don’t you have a job or something constructive to do?
The city failed to disclose omissions from it’s response to that public records request… In plain violation of California public records law.
That issue was fully discussed in the comments attached to that post.
Travis, that’s just lame. First off, you are saying readers of your blog entry have to follow up and wade through 500 comments to piece together the truth. Ridiculous.
Second, the problem was very clearly with Erik When’s flawed, amateur hour FOIA request. http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/FOIA-CPRA-Request-for-dispatch-records-redacted.pdf
FOIA requests are powerful journalistic tools, but you have to know what you are asking for and requests must be carefully worded. I’ve written dozens of ’em myself and rarely have all the needed docs been supplied on the first pass. And no, the respondent is not pre-supposed to be a mind reader and let Erik know what wasn’t asked for and there fore not provided.
That’s what happened here. Erik asked for “documentation of phone calls received by the police dispatchers regarding complaints of vehicle burglaries” on the night of Thomas’ murder. And that is exactly what Jones and Mayer (the firm providing City Attorney’s services) provided, as specifically and plainly noted at the top of the document file to which you linked. Jones and Mayer wrote that they were providing access to “copies of police reports for vehicle burglaries.”
http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Police-Reports-Auto-Burglary-July-5.pdf
What Erik really wanted was the Dispatch Log for July 5th between the hours of say, 8:00 pm and 9:00 pm, but he did not ask for it, so he didn’t get it. And like I said, Jones and Mayer could not have been clearer as to what was being provided.
You didn’t catch the mistake and wrote a completely inaccurate piece based upon your misreading of the documents Erik sent in, and then tried to pawn off your error as an “omission” by the city.
http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2011/the-missing-phone-call/#comment-49988
And now you are doing it again right now, charging that “The city failed to disclose omissions from it’s response to that public records request” and this time you upped the ante by including the spurious charge that this was done “In plain violation of California public records law.”
Making a mistake is one thing. Making a critical mistake in an inflammatory article that invited the reader to reach a false conclusion is another.
Making a critical mistake in an inflammatory article that invited the reader to reach a false conclusion, then refusing to acknowledge and correct the mistake while trying to shift the blame onto others is nothing less than flat out lying.
Wrong, Eric asked for “ANY documentation of phone calls” which a reasonable person would determine should include the Dispatch Log, which is primarily “documentation of phone calls.”
The city failed to respond appropriately to his request. We proceeded logically with the information that we had.
Travis wrote: “Eric asked for ‘ANY documentation of phone calls’ which a reasonable person would determine should include the Dispatch Log…”
Documentation of calls “regarding complaints of vehicle burglaries,” and again, that’s precisely what you and Erik got: Documentation of complaints of actual vehicle burglaries. The first rule of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) journalism is this: SHOTGUN REQUESTS don’t work. Whether the person receiving the request is ‘reasonable’ or not is irrelevant, it’s not his or her job to decipher the meaning or intent of your request, you only get what you carefully and specifically ask for, and this is how it works at every level of government, everywhere. Indeed, note these instructions contained in a sample FOIA request letter provided as an example of how to obtain records from one federal agency:
“…identify the records as clearly and specifically as possible …”
http://www.fas.usda.gov/info/FOIA/sample.html
But the real issue here is not Erik’s flawed FOIA request, it’s the absolute absence of basic journalistic standards and integrity in your reporting. You say you “proceeded logically with the information that we had.” But it could not have been made clearer to you by the City that what Erik received and sent to you was a record of “reports for vehicle burglaries,” this was stated right off the top, so it did not support your assertions of a ‘missing call’ at all. What’s logical about that? Here we are, nearly a month after your error was pointed out, and you still refuse to acknowledge the mistake and make a correction. This matters because you’ve got people here foaming at the mouth with all kinds of conspiracy theories, even that Thomas was ‘targeted’ that night, and your bullshit charge plays right into their paranoid fantasies.
FPD spokesman Goodrich has rightly taken a lot of heat here for his error in first reporting to the media that officers involved in the beating of Thomas received broken bones, then correcting his mistake. Ethically what you have done here is much worse, for not only have you dug your heels in and refused to admit and correct your error, you’ve tried to deflect and lay blame on others, and not coincidentally it would seem, the others you blame for your reckless reporting are also the object of your scorn.
Erik’s request was filed under the California Public Records Act, which is processed according to a completely different set of rules. Accordingly, your analysis of the validity of Erik’s request is completely flawed and it’s obvious that you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Travis, now you are compounding your lie by being disingenuous.
Whether Erik’s request was filed under FOIA or CPRA makes no difference whatsoever with regard to the need to identify the records requested as clearly and specifically as possible. This is Basic Journalism 101.
I’m not here to teach you the trade, however here’s a hint: What you guys should have done was follow up with a request for help from Jones and Mayer in constructing “a focused and effective request that reasonably describes an identifiable record or records” under CA GC 6253.1.(a).
Besides, the issue is not your lack of competency in obtaining records, it’s your total lack of journalistic standards in not correcting a published error and your ethical breach in trying to shift the blame onto another party.
Oh and Travis, you and Erik should understand that if you had told Jones and Mayer specifically what you were looking for: The suspicious activity call that resulted in police officers being dispatched to the Fullerton Transportation Center on the evening of July 5, 2011, between the hours of 7:00 pm and 10:00 pm, they would have been *obligated* under the law to help you find it.
Unfortunately the wording of Erik’s request made it sound like he was looking for phone calls reporting actual vehicle burglaries. Jones and Mayer fulfilled its duties in this regard and you guys didn’t follow up, you went with what you had, which was nothing that proved your point.
Eye, you are a longwinded dope. There were obviously three calls logged on vehicle burglaries that night. The city got a request for ALL of them, and it returned two without further comment.
That’s called deception.
That’s incorrect. Laughably incorrect actually…
First: We have no idea how many calls came into FPD Dispatch that night with regard to possible suspicious activities, such as a ‘homeless man’ looking into cars and lifting handles. What we do know is that two written General Offense reports of actual vehicle burglaries that occurred that night were taken by officers.
These are the documents Travis posted and they do not reflect all calls to FPD Dispatch.
Second: In fact, they don’t reflect any calls to FPD Dispatch at all!!!
One victim approached Officer Jose Torres on foot at Santa Fe and Pomona that night and told him her car had been burgled, and Torres filed the General Offense report. In the next incident, the victim walked up to the front desk at FPD headquarters and Officer Anna Hakai took the victim’s information and filed the second transpo center vehicle burglary General Offense report of the night.
So yeah, not only do Erik and Travis’ documents have nothing to do with any missing phones calls to FPD Dispatch, they don’t have anything to do with any phone calls to the FPD period!
(rimshot)
lol
STOP! It is one thing to have a Dispatch Log that records a complaint call for someone’s breaking into cars. It is another thing to have telephone “PIN” records that corroborate that. Unfortunately for you sir, others on the FFFF blog are way ahead of you. I urged a PIN search, and it was done more than six weeks ago. Result? There was no phone call OF RECORD to the FPD headquarters, in which a report was made of someone’s breaking in to cars. And therein lies my theory that the “incoming call” was to some personal, official cellular phone, whose direct dial number is likely on one of the “business cards” that many police officers hand out, to facilitate follow-up investigations. No one has yet disproved my point that the “car break-in” report did NOT go to 911 and did NOT go to the non-emergency phone line.
By the way: a dispatcher does nothing wrong to “log in” a call that has been received other than at the dispatch desk. In fact, it is a requirement, when a report comes in, for the receiving officer to “walk the report” over to the Dispatcher. The Dispatcher does not lie, until he or she says that the call came in via a land-line call that he or she personally handled. Here, we don’t know if the DA’s Office even interviewed the Dispatcher. The fact that the DA focused on the Log, instead of the tracing of the items on the Log, is another marker that the DA is purposely not following all trails that could lead to the truth. He is delivering on a favor to someone.
I can understand your initial feeling that FFFF has been reckless in the reporting. If you want to really help, then why don’t you publicly campaign to get a sworn statement from the Dispatcher about the source of his or her entry on the Log, and the identity of the particular officer who “informed” him or her?
Again: no phone call of record on any land line at the headquarters, that is traceable to anyone who admits to reporting that a car break-in was in progress. So let us find out the Dispatcher’s source. Please “carry the spear” on this one, even if it embarrasses Tony Rackauckas. WSH
Thanks for the thoughtful response ‘Snow Hume.’ This part caught my eye:
“…therein lies my theory that the “incoming call” was to some personal, official cellular phone…”
So you continue to believe this? Even though the DA recently stated:
“On July 5, 2011, at 8:23 p.m., FPD Dispatch received a call reporting a “homeless” man looking in car windows and pulling on handles of parked cars in the FTC parking lot.”
http://orangecountyda.com/home/index.asp?page=8&recordid=2581&returnurl=index%2Easp%3Fpage%3D8
Among the “evidence reviewed” are “Dispatch logs and audio from FPD.” I suppose the audio could consist solely of the outgoing radio call, but calls to dispatch are recorded as well, so perhaps they have a recording of the complaint? And I suppose the call could have come in on some officer’s cell, who then passed it along to dispatch, but man, how far do we need to stretch to make this theory work? And what’s the point anyway?
That somebody at the Slidebar knew that if you call in a report of a homeless man disturbing your customers the cops won’t come, but if you call in and say a random customer said they saw a homeless man casing cars they’ll come out and move the guy along? This seems to be what happened, reading what I’ve read here and in the Jeremy Popoff interview on Fullerton Stories. The female Slidebar managers had come to the point where they were afraid of confronting Kelly, and dealing with a schizophrenic homeless man every night who would yell at them and who had been banned from the premises wasn’t exactly what they had signed up for when they took the job. So somebody, a cop, an ex-cop, one of the bouncers, or maybe Jeremy himself (he’s been around the club scene for a long time and no doubt knows how this works) took pity on ‘em and told them how to get Kelly to move along without fear of putting themselves at risk.
And then this asshole Ramos shows up and, well, we know the rest of the story, but now we are supposed to form a lynch mob and try to nail the manager who called, and maybe even burn the Slidebar to the ground, as was recently suggested here? Please. No crime was committed by anyone other than the officers who murdered Kelly Thomas. Period.
Besides all of that Snow Hume, the nature of the call itself has zero to do with my issue with Travis and FFF’s, as you put it “reckless reporting” and their abject failure to correct their mistake, nor Travis’ attempt to pawn his own error off on the City, further inflaming his readers with still more false information.
I’m new here so you need to be more specific, please.
You refer to “false information,” but you did not happen to mention anything in particular. Also, you bring up the fact if it is a fact that Tony Bushala has never yet done a damn thing to help the homeless. How is that relevant? At least there is no evidence that Tony Bushala has been MURDERING the homeless as is the apparent wont of the Fullerton PD.
I happen to KNOW for a fact that Tony Bushala helps the homeless people a LOT! I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Tony Bushala just doesn’t go around bragging about it.
If you want to know the TRUTH, try ASKING the homeless people themselves; they’ll tell you!! Now, there’s a novel idea for you, but it’s probably just too much work for you, Allen; you just prefer to sit behind your keyboard all day.
Oh, and if you do decide to go and speak to the homeless of Fullerton, take some money, food or clothing with you. Oh, and make it LOTS of money and BRAND NEW clothing, not your skanky rags. Oh, and food would also be great, or bus vouchers would also be very appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Allen, you are very delusional. If I may be so vile as to quote your own words, it is, in fact reality, that YOU are the one who is “… nothing but a bully and a pompous “A Hole”.
Pot meet kettle.
And I will make sure that I do everything in my power to make sure that Chris Thompson stays on the Fullerton School Board to keep sheep like you in the bahhhhhhhck of the class.
If you find a clip of how Kelly Thomas was murdered “amuzing” then you are one sick twisted FAcking cAnt!
The owner of the blog is milking the guy’s murder for everything he’s got. It’s quite obvious the owner of the blog has certain political motivations.
You’re just jelly because your blog had no subscribers and went right down the shitter. Hence, “Toilet.”
Extremely jelly! The owner doesn’t get that many hits in the first place, and his page views have been going down. If you notice, a majority of the posts made by this Tony guy, he’ll bring up Kelly Thomas case, even if it’s completely irrelevant. The one about the “Municipal Water Board meeting” is aperfect example.
Milking someones murder for more page hits is retarded. I can’t wait for Tony’s book on the matter, though. You know it’s coming
in the LA timees article it says:
Ramos’ attorney, John Barnett, told the judge that the Thomas case was not a “typical murder” and that typical bail should not apply.
“This was a violent felon who confronted my client that evening,” Barnett said. He said that his client was targeted by the district attorney because he was the first to arrive on the scene. Six officers were involved in the incident that led to Thomas’ death, but only two, Ramos and Cpl. Jay Cicinelli, were charged. Cicinelli is charged with involuntary manslaughter and use of excessive force.
maybe ramos is going to talk..
turn on his brothers in crime..
we can only hope..
Talk about what? Do you think he will say that his “brothers in crime” purposely killed Thomas? That’s not how it works – you are living in movie land son.
son?
not true ALLEN in new orleans i cop tolded the trueth and he,s the only one not in prison,plus he keep his job. FPD where are the good cop,s at are ALL Drity
Just as the bigger issue in the Mehserle BART shooter case, the problem is not the actual killing, which likely was not pre-meditated, but rather the stonewalling arrogant condescending attitude towards the people’s desire to learn the truth. Public officials including police tried to cover up what happened with Mehserle, and now even more evil public officials are actively trying to cover up what happened to Kelly Thomas. We are being oppressed by psychotic megalomaniacs, pure and simple.
Allen,
I’ve personally spoken with several eyewitnesses that said that officer Jay Ciccinelli looked like a carpenter hammering nails when he was using the butt end of the taser in between Kelly Thomas’s eyes/nose area. The graphic description of the sound and the amount of times that he did this is even more chilling and theeye witnesses all said that they lost count of the number of times that this was done.
The only movie land that we’re living in is a series of horror movies that have been perpretrated by the Fullerton PD, and the Three Blind Mice that allowed for these officers actions to go unchecked for so long.
“I am a resident of Fullerton and my children are in the Fullerton School District. I am sickened to think that Chris Thompson is part of our school’s leadership and I will do everything in my power to remove him from his position.”
Beating a guy to death, trying to cover it up and lying about do not bother you as a “Fulleron resident” ….. your kids deserve better than that.
Thank you but Chris Thompson has nothing to do with this incident. My issues with Thompson are his political motives. One being using Kelly’s death to further his objectives.
This whole site is political!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are right, my kids to deserve better than that.
troll hole
Hi merijo!!!!!! I’ve missed you 🙂 I see you continue to write very insightful blogs LOL
So you do have kids and then you actually don’t…but then try to say everyone else is a liar, even though you’re clearly lying about something right here? What? Which is the truth? I think your credibility has already been shot down with one big WHOOSH.
you’re right! chris has nothing to do with this!!
why did YOU bring it up???
Oh there is Allen..the most annoying blogger here. Hey Allen if your issues with Thompson are political motives, then email him. This site pertains to Kelly Thomas..period. If you think that Chris Thompson and Tony Bushala are shining light to this Kelly Thomas issue for some sort of political motive then you you must be mentally retarded. You are annoying. You know what “sickens” me? Is this whole murder/cover-up going on in Fullerton. More so then your conspiracy theory behind Thompson’s motives. And your comment, “These blogs contain comments that clearly show the ignorance that is out there.” More ignorant than the police department who lied? More ignorant that the department and city council who covered up and took no responsibility/leadership about this incident? More ignorant than the D.A who took over 2 months to file the least amount of charges possible for damage control? More ignorant than your stupid incompetent point of view and comments….I think not.
Allen is the kind of troll who exists just to piss us off and trick us into wasting time with him…you know, the typical a$$clown troll. No substantial argument to make, just snark and snipe.
Your kids deserve a better parent, I’ll grant you that. Unfortunately they will likely emerge from childhood just like you did – a little warped.
This whole site is political, eh?
What makes you think someone from Northern California gives a flying frigola about Fullerton politics? What that someone might care about is helpless citizens being MURDERED by psychotic cops aided and abetted by megalomaniacal politicians. If you think calling the Kelly Thomas Murder “politics” is going to make the issue go away you have a lot to learn. Go sell your stupid somewhere else ‘cuz nobody’s buying it here.
They are digging their heels in folks and they play dirty. However righteous people who stand for truth need not fear. Fear is what these monsters feed on. When they are faced with the truth combined with courage it is like kryptonite to them. Watch them fold like a bad hand. This thing is only in its infancy. Fasten your seatbelts.
allen??? sounds like you are beginning to “PANIC” now the the truth is coming out…
you must be related to one of them…
Not related and definately not in a panic. Your truth is your reality. Your truth is what you want it to be as an individual. You follow the majority and are therefore nothing more than a blind follower
you allen! do not know any of us!!
i for one DO NOT FOLLOW anyone!!
i am open to all sides!!
YOU are definately so closed minded, not to be able to see the truth…
You know what? “Allen” is probably not even HUMAN!!!!
He sounds like a “Turing Test” program gone crazy and sent out into the internet to piss normal people off and trick us into leaving off the real game. “Your truth is your reality?” WTF is that supposed to mean? Truth is what we want it to be, so therefore we cannot defeat him with the truth, see, ‘cuz there is no truth, and we don’t count for jack squat in this world, only power matters, and we ain’t got no power, see, so STFU!!!
doesn’t seem so in this case..
I am a resident of Fullerton and my children attend Fullerton schools and I will do everything I can to make sure that Chris Thompson gets re-elected. As for you mr or mrs “fullerton resident” . When do you want the “snuff films” to be part of the school curriculum?
You are pushing for “snuff films” to be part of the school curriculum. You should really think about that.
I thought ‘Allen’ was unmasked as another of ‘Reality Is’ sock puppets about two and a half weeks ago?
You wish. I’m flyin solo.
yeah that last post is stupid. but on a more important note absolutely goodrich should be fired and probably be prosecuted for cover up and all the other kinds of things . obstruction of justice etc etc.
and to speak about chris thompson I don’t really know him . and what I do know he does seem a little high strung but probably a pretty good guy. and to worry about him on your kids school board , shut up. at least he’s not a nazi police chief cover up doc hee haw stupid spokes
hole in bread white fullerton copy
politician crap face, idiot.
what is truly sad joke this whole thing is truly tragic. and if we the people
well not the last post because there is some people have posted when I was writing so probably that was meant for a person who is worried about chris tomson on the school board
Calling the Police Chief a “Nazi”? You have no basis for that other than just ranting and screaming. You are not making a point.
I just heard Ramos bail will not be reduced. He is now in an orange jump suit.
as he should be
Speaking of cops not on duty.
What is the tally to Fullerton so far?
The chief is out on disability @ $228K per year
6 FPD “peace officers” on admin leave @$90K avg?
Are we also paying O.T. to cover for these Seven?
The FPD “investigation” is required before a dismissal and may go as long as a year?
Who is running the investigation?
The same management that allowed the six to watch the bus depot video together and coordinate their reports?
Good answers. 🙂
yeah he is the da’s token mexican to throw under the bus. he is the 1 that they don’t give a crap about he’s not 1 of their special brothers in blue. so they threw him under the bus to seem like they are
on the side of justice and the people. don’t let’em fool you. and I’ll bet you anything rommel’s is in special security police jail with no hard core bad ass ass kicking
cop hating homeboys.
Here we go!!!! I knew some idiot would make it racial. It never fails!!!!!!!!
go die peacefully somewhere far away so the stench of your corpse won’t bother anyone
Nice!!!!! Keep in coming bloggers!!!!
He let the murderers keep their badges.. would you offer up one of your children in place of Kelly?
So,
PLEASE be human enough to tell us what the charges should be FOR ALL SIX
I will await your obfuscation
Charges should be as those as announced. Ramos will be aquitted for murder and found guilty of excessive force. Cincinelli will be found of guilty of involuntary manslaughter and excessive force and get more time than Ramos. 3 officers will loose their jobs and one will return to work. Chief will retire and the independant investigation will result in PD reform.
This website will eventually retire back to its original purpose and Bushala will continue to harrass the citizens of Fullerton.
You will eventually find something else to do during your day. Perhaps take up another hobby. Find something else to complain about maybe. Accuse the government of coverup. Something like that.
And just think, asshole, none of this would have occurred without Bushala. And that really pisses you off.
LOL!! It doesn’t piss me off.. I do enjoy reading how the heads spin in here and not one one blogger can refrain from calling me troll or an asshole. There are a lot of angry people in here who are blind and ignorant.
My eyes are wide open!!! 🙂
Allen I won’t call you names but what I will do is ask you questions.
Why are youaking statements you know will provoke anger on this site?
You seem to have a good understanding of Tony and Chris, where do you work?
Please be honest as most of us have been honest with our feelings…
i don’t rant or scream…You are not making a point.
Tell us your opinion.. sure sounds you are one who has no soul whatsoever
A COWARD and BLIND AUTHORITY LOVER…
You think they have some allegiance?? to you?
6 people murdered Kelly Thomas..
Here is what Jay Cincinelli did
came to the scene and saw 3 men holding down Kelly Thomas .. approx 150lbs??
what did he do next.. care to tell us coward?
4 taser shots..
2 to the head/skull/brain
2 to his heart
Knee dropped his throat and lungs
when the battery died in his taser he did what next?
BLUDGEONED Kelly Thomas a skinny malnourished 150? lb homeless mentally ill homeless man how many times..
HOW MANY TIMES
EIGHT TIMES
ALL IN THE FACE WITH HIS TASER
guess that is acceptable to you
Yes, I’m 100% confident that Allen is not “human” in any meaningful sense. “He,” or rather, “It,” deliberately makes inflammatory statements just to push our buttons.
It is just a computer program designed to provoke chaos and incite violent reaction. The instigators of this program want more than anything for somebody, anybody, to lose their cool and do something stupid. I’d bet money that that was all “Allen” is about. If he is flesh and blood he’s still just a tool of the psychological operation.
I agree 150% when deciding to engage “commenters” it would be prudent to compare the comments on the blog to the comments you receive in real life. I have not meant one person in real life that sound like Allen or realityis therefore their comments probabky aren’t “real” in a real world sense. The fullerton elites have the money and connections to employ these types of deceptions.
I guess that shows how often you get out in real life. Every comment I have made is real life, everyday life. You might not want to accept that, but it’s reality.
I promise to God there is no way someone as heartless and blind as you even has children or a Heart
You like snuff films so what is the problem?
Was Kelly Thomas murdered? .. just answer the question
You may be surprised but I do believe this is a Murder. I do not believe this is premeditated murder however. Engaging in escessive force causing death is a form of murder. I don’t believe for a second that these police intended to kill Thomas.
EVERYONE ELSE HERE DOES
No, we don’t all believe that. We keep an open-mind to the possibility, which is different.
Yes Cicinelli shocked Kelly four or five times then beat in his head in with his taser. But there was no intent to kill him.
Dear Blogger-“Allen”,
So far as I know, only one other blogger has published anything that is consistent with a belief in an officer’s intentional purpose to kill. [That was the blogger yesterday who has an eyewitness informant who commented about the measured, executional style of what Officer Cicirelli did.]
I have always, since when I first saw the evidence of a conspiracy, stated that no more than three of the six officers could have been in on the conspiracy. I also stated that there was a strong chance that an “innocent” officer — one who was not privy to the conspiracy — would be maneuvered into criminal liability for excessive force.
In order to figure it out, we need to know for each officer who showed up, who, if anyone, ordered him to respond to the scene. It is not as if the Dispatcher ordered five more men to show up. And unless the order to go was made in person, otherwise there likely will be an electronic recording of whatever the responding officer heard. This is a basic starting point.
A non-corrupt public prosecutor would be focusing on who made the order to send out so many men. Plenty of policing experts will tell you that it is not wise to send a total of six officers to detain or arrest an unarmed, half-naked homeless guy. A noncorrupt public prosecutor could find and prosecute a crime, just for sending out too many uniformed officers, in light of the known circumstances.
Has anyone else on this blogsite figured out yet, who the likely Mastermind was? I will give you a clue: it is a “he”, and not a “she”. WSH
TASER TO THE CHAST PROVE,S PREMEDITATED MURDER EVEN IF YOU TRY TO FORGET ABOUT ALL THE REST. IT IS WELL KNOWED EVEN TO PEOPLE THET ARE NOT COP,S
Must be insightful.. or why are you here?
BTW.. JAY only had 25k bail..
If that was your child he murdered would you accept the DA’s bail amount?
Please ask for a divorce and give full custody to something with a Heart
Thanks but I will stay married and you might want to take a good look in the mirror and question yourself whether or not you have a HEART.
I won’t give my kids up either. Your idea would screw them up
You mean Ramos will be convicted of involuntary manslaughter.
He wasn’t charged with excessive force.
Or did I mishear the charges?
ALLEN,
Thank you for voicing your opinion. I do worry for your kids though; not so much because of what you tell them, but of your ignorance about what is going on around you. If everyone was like you, then when your kids get to be adults, law enforcement would be totally out of control. They need to have checks and balances in the system to make those in uniform, responsible for their behaviors, and make sure that they are sufficiently punished for going out of policy and breaking the laws that they swore to uphold.
I have young adult kids myself, and I do worry for their safety and that of their future offspring. Every parent should be furious that anyone entrusted with the power and authority of life and death, like these 6 have, acted in such a reckless disregard for life. They took the life of the very citizen they should have protected.
I do ask that you open up your eyes and ears, and see what is happening around you. One day, it just might happen to you or one of your family members.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
@9c1copcar
It’s all opinions. I don’t want to scare my kids. I want to grow up and respect police. I don’t want them to question authority to the point where they would challenge police to make a point. I definately won’t warn my kids about their local police and put unreasonalbe fear in them. I want them to rely on their police.
Checks and balances should always be in place. I agree.. But I don’t want my kids to grow up, get jobs, and be sacrificed and made an example of something because of someone elses wrong doing.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
Warning your kids about the FPD would seem to be a reasonable precaution.
I think it’s interesting that Allen says “I want to grow up and respect police”. Was this a slip????
9c1
You are wasting your breath, time and words talking sense to one of the heartless monsters who works for the FPD – It is not interested in anything other than spewing evil propaganda
Ignore the troll hole
Jay intended to murder him.. that should be easy to comprehend..
Jay bludgeoned Kelly’s face EIGHT times, AFTER Kelly was already unconscious, and AFTER Kelly was not moving and not speaking.
Kelly was being held down by several others who were watching all of this happen to Kelly. Those who were watching Cicinelli do this are also guilty.
I spoke with a witness on Saturday who told me that Jay Cicinelli TOOK HIS TIME between each blow to Kelly’s face; Cicinelli was very CAREFULLY AIMING each blow.
If you bludgeon someone that hard, 8 times, crushing the nose and also other bones deep inside the head, at some point, you KNOW that you are murdering someone. The bones deep inside the head are VERY difficult to break and it requires a tremendous amount of brutal force to break those bones. These blows were very easily the Coup de Grace that made it so that Kelly would have no chance of recovery.
These officers also KNOW how deadly Tasers are, especially when applied to the chest. Using a Taser even one time on the chest area can cause death. The manufacturer of the Taser states that it is NOT to be used on the chest area since it can cause heart attacks.
They also KNOW that if several, or even one fat cop, is sitting on top of Kelly’s chest, that he will not be able to breath. Especially, after Kelly’s ribs have been kicked in and his lung is punctured and filling with blood.
Especially when Kelly is telling them he is “sorry” and Kelly is telling them that HE CAN’T BREATHE. Especially when Kelly is screaming for help.
If EVEN ONE of those fat cops was sitting on top of my stomach or chest; I would not be able to breathe. And, after my head was bashed in, and I was also in a choke hold and I was being Tasered?? Are you kidding me?? What part of EXCESSIVE FORCE and MURDER don’t people understand????
When Kelly was on the ground; he was NOT resisting, EXCEPT to SURVIVE. LIKE a DROWNING MAN wants, and fights for AIR to SURVIVE.
Are you telling me that the “professional,” academy trained officers can’t tell the difference between someone who is UNARMED, struggling for his very LIFE, to be able to BREATHE, for his own SURVIVAL, and someone who might be a threat to six large, vest wearing, officers?
All of the officers were there on the scene by then; they ALL heard Kelly begging for help. They could ALL see that Kelly was NO THREAT to any of them, yet they still held him down and continued to beat him and Taser him mercilessly.
This was NOT the officer’s first rodeo folks. They are “professionally” trained and they KNOW what deadly force is. These officers had a LOT of experience. They had been in a LOT of fights before. They ALL KNEW it was EXCESSIVE. They ALL KNEW Kelly was being murdered.
All of the witnesses KNEW the beating was EXCESSIVE. ALL of the witnesses KNEW that Kelly was being MURDERED. ALL of the witnesses KNEW that Kelly was NOT resisting.
It was not possible for Kelly to resist when his head had just been bashed into the concrete curb and he was in a prone choke hold position. Kelly needed to be taken to the hospital in an ambulance at THIS point.
Kelly could not have even stood up and hurt any of them after his head had been bashed in to the curb. Let alone SIX of them, who were wearing bullet proof vests.
Did those six, trained, large men, REALLY think that little Kelly Thomas, as injured, Tased, and brutally beaten as he was, SWIMMING in an ocean of blood, (think MASSIVE blood loss here folks), was going to actually be able to stand up- and hurt any of them?? IF so, they were ALL COWARDS.
They are afraid of their own shadows. They are afraid of ants. They use their Tasers and batons to kill ants at home.
May God help us all and protect us FROM the FPD.
Manuel Ramos, age 37-10 years experience
Joseph Wolfe, age 36-12 years
Cpl. Jay Cicinelli, age 39-12 years
Kenton Hampton,age 41-5 years
Sgt. Kevin Craig, age 44-15 years
Cpl. James Blatney, age 42 -18 years
it is difficult to find the entire video, once in a while this kind of thing gets caught on tape…
Rodney King Beating Video
The footage second-by-second.
Briseno puts his hand in front of Powell, who is ready to strike King.
Powell strikes King in the back as he attempts to rise.
Briseno stomps on King’s shoulder, forcing King’s face down.
King begins to get up from his hands and knees.
King is up and charges in the direction of Powell.
Powell hits King in the shoulder area with his baton and King falls on his face.
King hit by numerous blows from Powell to various parts of his body, probably including one blow to the head.
King is on his stomach. No blows are struck.
Powell has baton raised and appears ready to strike King. Briseno puts his hand in front of Powell.
King is rising. Powell strikes King in arms and chest.
Wind strikes King near buttocks.
After Powell strikes King in upper chest, King topples over and turns.
Powell strikes King in arm and shoulder area.
Powell strikes King in back while King attempts to rise.
Powell hits King in left arm as King rises from his knees.
Wind swings at King as King begins to fall.
King falls. His face appears to hit asphalt.
Powell strikes King on knee, while Wind hits King in shoulder.
King’s head his up. Powell and Wind deliver hard blows to King’s back, buttocks, and thighs.
King rolls to left and cocks right leg.
After two-second break, officers resume force, striking King’s legs.
King lifts his upper torso.
Powell strikes King’s ankle while Wind strikes his back.
ing rolls on ground while Koon puts arms in form of cross, showing the position he wants King to assume.
King, on his back, cocks his left leg.
King rolls as Powell strikes his hand.
Powell reaches for his handcuffs.
King raises his torso. Briseno stomps on Kings shoulder and Kings head hits asphalt.
Briseno points to King. Powell and Wind strike King’s right arm.
King is on his hands and knees.
Wind strikes King’s back three times.
Powell strikes King’s left arm.
Wind delivers three kicks to King’s shoulder and back area.
Video back in focus. Powell swings at King.
King is sitting on his calfs. Koon is pointing at King.
King puts his hands on his head.
Briseno begins handcuffing King.
King is put in handcuffs after officers.
^^true.. and now.. watch.. the cops will start harassing him
If they were good cops they would quietly and maybe even anonymously THANK HIM and this website for CLEANING FPD
Being in your custody is a worse result..
Good example here of being judged without facts.
I’m curious what you told your children after they viewed/or will view the videos of Kelly Thomas crying out for his father while he was being beat to death by six Fullerton police officers that were sworn to serve and protect us?
The facts are that an innocent man is dead after he was assaulted by an FPD street mob.
25k Allen.. Bail for what JAY DID
25k
come.. on… animal cruelty can commonly hold a higher bail
Officer’s attorney blames Kelly Thomas for deadly altercation
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/09/defense-attorney-blames-kelly-thomas-for-fatal-incident.html
LAT wrote: “Officer’s attorney blames Kelly Thomas for deadly altercation”
Of course he does.
Oh and how John Barnett would like to get busy publicly attacking the video/audio evidence, picking it apart and diminishing its shock value in the minds of potential jurors. If only the DA would be forced by public pressure to make both public! His job would be so much easier.
The Friends for Fullerton’s future have apparently become his ally in this…. why?
He’s going to “pick it apart” sooner or later anyway.
I want to see it so I can form my own opinion about who did what.
I particularly want to see what Wolfe was really up to during the 15 minutes Ramos was hovering over Kelly. And of course I want to take a gander at Mr. Kenton Hampton’s role in the murder.
What’s the matter DOS? Don’t you trust our DA?
DOS, under the law all of the evidence will be presented at the pre-trial, and I’m certain the defense will leak the audio and video as soon as it becomes available to them to do so, it is, after all, their best interest to get it out there sooner rather than later.
And may I respectfully submit that your desire to form your own opinion at this time should and must take a back seat to the cause of justice?
It’s baffling to me that anyone here wants to aid the defense in its cause.
Yeah, Barnet is going to pick apart the video, he’s already begun, saying ‘I”ve seen the video and blah blah blah,’ but why on earth would you want to make it easier for him to do this and also to diminish its shock value? Don’t you care about justice for Kelly and for Ron?
Dear Blogger-“EyeNeverSayNo”,
I took Criminal Procedure in law school, and I keep California’s Penal Code at hand for my work. I could be wrong, but I am not aware of anything that requires “all of the evidence” to be presented. Just enough evidence to make out probably cause for either an Indictment by the Grand Jury or, alternatively, an Information by the prosecutor. While it is my hope that all of the videos emerge and are aired at the Preliminary Hearing, I am rather pessimistic.
On the other hand, it is definitely true that the criminal defendant is entitled to whatever evidence the prosecution might put on at trial. But that would not necessarily mean a public disclosure of the things which are supplied by the prosecutor over to the defense attorney.
With all of that being said — one little aside. It is possible to get an injunction, to force the District Attorney to prosecute crimes that he presently ought to, but does not. This type of injunction is called a “Writ of Mandate”, and it is procured by means of a “Petition for Writ of Mandate”. Ordinarily, these are not available to compel the filing of charges, but certain circumstances can make it possible. The question is whether or not the court is being asked to second-guess the “discretion” of the prosecutor, in determining whether or not there is “Probable Cause to Prosecute”. If such a determination requires traditional “fact-finding” functions, where reasonable people could differ when faced with the same facts, then “discretion” must be exercised.
A common example is the consideration of the credibility of a witness. But if electronically-recorded evidence could make out an apparent crime, despite believing whatever self-serving things that a perpetrator might say, then the “credibility of witness” is irrelevant, and there is hardly any discretion left to exercise.
It is probably easier to win a RICO case, than it is to win a Writ of Mandate proceeding to force a prosecutor to do his job. But the same analysis that I described — making out the Probable Cause exists “as a matter of law” when “indisputeable facts alone” are considered — is the same work which a sophisticated criminal defense attorney will perform. Why? Because Selective Enforcement is an affirmative defense that can put the prosecutor on the defensive. And here, as I have noted in an earlier blog, the DA has not prosecuted obvious “aiding and abetting through physical restraint of victim”. And the only Latino officer is the one who is getting prosecuted. It is as if the prosecution was engineering a good defense for Officer Ramos, through its charging decisions.
That is why I do not believe that Attorney Barnett will move to transfer the case elsewhere, to get a fairer trial. If the case is transferred, then a different prosecutorial team will step in. And that would create the risk that all of Rackauckas’ “engineered failures” might be fixed by a different prosecutorial team. What if, God forbid, a Latino District Attorney in a different county got hold of this case?
WSH
I’m starting to think that the other four belong in the cage too. That’s also justice.
Feel free to respectfully submit all you want.
Ron doesn’t get to define justice here. That’s for society to decide.
You seem awfully eager to go after the two and let the rest go.
Just pragmatic? I wonder…
That attorney id a scum bag. Can you imagine saying that the entire altercation was the fault of Kelly Thomas? Insane.
Allen, my children also attend school in fullerton, but what does that have to do with six police officers brutally killing a homeless man? Have your children talked to you about this? They are talking about this in the schools, you know. Mine are scared and old enough to be concerned as to why it happened, they won’t even go up to Amerige to meet their friends for pizza or whatever! So Allen, what should matter here, is that murder is murder, whether it be by a street gang of hudlums, or a gang of hudlums hiding behind a badge! Be honest with your childrens they are hearing about this from other parents and friends more then you rralize. I have talked with mine numerous times about this since it happened, and you know the reaccurring questions” Mom, how can they do that if they are police officers?” Well Allen what is youe answer?
Well peanut I know you are enraged here. You make some valid points until you blame all six for murder
.
“Question”
Dad, why do people blame Uncle Bob for hurting that homeless man?
“Answer”
Well son, because he was called out to help his fellow officers and when he got there it was all over. He was just there son
“Question”
Than why does Uncle Bob want to help people who call him a killer?
“Answer”
Because thats who Uncle Bob is. He helps people who hate him, love him, spit on him, shoot at him, and call him names like the nice people of FFFF who hate him. He will give his life for them to, just as his fellow police officers would.
Don’t worry son, Uncle Bob will be fine.
not bragging in the least.. but I can bench 150lb dumbells in each hand
How much did Kelly weigh? HOW MUCH
sigh.. and you think the other 4 had their backs turned?
how does it look up there??
HOW DID YOU KNOW HE IS A PROCTOLOGIST
allen i think the anger in here is calming down a bit now that some of the truth is coming out..
wait for more to be revealed;;
btw, you might need to get your meds adjusted…
call your doctor please…
oh, thats wonderful.. keep your kids in the dark like your parents obviously did.. hows that working for you…
btw, the kids will hear it all from friends anyway..
maybe you should keep them home and under a rock too…
BOOM.. ta da.. bada bing
COWARD.. I told you up above what you are
coward and authority lover..
Can I bring some leather for you to wear and some Vaseline and ropes or handcuffs
Such a hateful person. Cops protect you to they just have to spend a little more time with you since you seem to question it often
the anger SHOULD GROW.. huge.. THERMODYNAMIC
look
reminder>> ??
Jay 25k bail?
4 cops set free to put badges on.. after they were truly accomplices to murder.
YOUR KEYBOARD.. provided facts beyond a reasonable doubt
Mr. Peabody wrote: “the public should see the video for themselves.”
I want to see convictions of Officers Ramos and Cicinelli on all charges. So does the DA, thus prosecutors would like to hold the video and audio until trial and spring it on the jury at the last minute for maxiumum shock value.
Ramos, Cicinelli and their attorneys want to see the officers walk away from all charges with not guilty verdicts, thus they would like to see the video and audio made public today, and yesterday would have been even better to put as much time and spin on the evidence as possible.
That’s why the California Penal Code sets the rules with regard to physical evidence in what is known as the ‘discovery’ phase, limiting either side’s ability to ‘stage-manage’ the evidence and to bring in evidence for which the other side is unprepared to refute.
If you want to see the officers convicted, then you also want the prosecutors to be able to keep the most shocking video and audio evidence private as long as possible, right up until disocovery.
If you want to see the officers walk, or perhaps believe the political implications are more important than convictions, then you want the audio and video released right away so that potential jurors will have as much time as possible to get over the shock of what they see and hear, and to hear over and over again all of the arguments diminishing what the video and audio reveal. As happened in the trial of the officers accused of beating Rodney King.
And you can take this to the bank: If prosecutors are able to resist this kind of uninformed pressure to make the video and audio public prior to discovery, it will be the defense that gets both out there as quickly as possible during the pre-trial phase.
So going forward, what is it that FFF and commenters here want? The best chance for convictions of Ramos and Cicinelli, or a political firestorm and revolt right now against Fullerton city leaders and the FPD?
Keep in mind that it’s possible to have both, but this would require a little sacrafice of self-interest and of the burning, human desire for self-affirmation.
It’s amusing how trolls like Allen can never properly spell simple words such as “definitely”.
Here we go again with “Troll” This isn’t a spelling contest
I want Cincinelli back in JAIL and bond reset by a non blueliner
I would agree that his bail amount seems like it should have been higher.
I posted bond for a friend recently on charges of driving without a license and failure to appear on a traffic ticket for making an illegal right turn on a red. His bail for that was $30,000! But of course the whole purpose of bail and the posting of a bond is not to punish but to make sure the defendant shows up to court, and my friend’s FTA worked against him in this regard.
The judge probably feels Cicinelli isn’t going anywhere, has no record of FTA, and is not in any way a threat to flee from justice. Hence the relatively low bail.
Do you think Cicinelli might flee?
COWARD.. Uncle BOB WATCHED
4 tasers
knee drops to throat and lungs
EIGHT HAMMER FISTS TO THE FACE WITH A WEAPON
you suck .. real bad
Sellers let them keep their badges.. so did ALL OF FPD
Jones and McKinley watched the videos and disparaged both Kelly and Ron..
I could go on but your intelligence bores me
Might be better for you to just ignore me. You haven’t said anything new, just the same old hateful remarks.
You mean just THE TRUTH.
self-righteous people like Allen serve there own brand of truth, and your pissing in the wind trying to get them to see the world otherwise.
Uncle Bob ain’t Jesus Christ. He’s an ovely entitled pig who watched Cicinell shock Kelly numerous times then pound his face to jelly.
Uncle Bob was there watching, probably enjoying the spectacle. Who was Uncle Bob?
Wolfe, Blatney, Klein Hampton. Four stalwarts of probity.
Barnett also gave a glimpse of his defense strategy, saying that Thomas had a history of violence.
“He attacked his grandfather with a poker and choked his mother,” Barnett said after the hearing. “Less than a year ago, his mom couldn’t control him and he was choking her.”
Barnett’s comments angered Thomas’ father.
“I’m not happy at all about defense attorney Barnett’s lies about my son,” he told reporters. “But I guess that’s his job, to degrade my son.” Ron Thomas downplayed the conflict between son and grandfather, noting it was 17 years ago.
“Did he do what he’s accused of doing? Yes, he did, but his grandfather has forgiven him.”
http://www.swrnn.com/2011/09/26/fullerton-officer-pleads-not-guilty-to-murder-charges-in-kelly-thomas-case/
That defense is like someone justifying gunning down a registered sex offender because “They molested a child”.
No matter what Kelly did in the past, it does not justify Officer Potato Head’s actions.
Barnett is setting up a laughable defense If that is what hes going for.
I for one am not laughing.
Barnett, as Ron acknowledges, is just doing his job, and the first rule of crminal defense is ‘attack the victim’ when faced with solid, extremely damaging and/or irrefutable evidence. Why? Because confusing juries as to who exactly is the true victim works, and in confusion can be found the seed of doubt.
Imagine what Barnett would be saying now about the video/audio evidence if it were already public? He would be attacking Thomas while also attempting to spin the physical evidence in ways which support his contention that the whole thing was Thomas’ fault. I’m curious T N Z, are you among those who would like to see Barnett get a big head start in thus influencing potential jurors?
Predictable comeback is predictable.
If you call people ignorant, you can expect to be taken to task for fumbling 4th grade level words.
These officers will be acquitted without a doubt.
The DA submitted a crappy case full of holes to absolve himself of responsibly and to quiet down protesters.
The DA Tony R said on KFI that the combined weight of the all of officers caused Kelly’s death not the actions of one or two officers (Funny he didn’t name which officers were on top of Kelly).
Good luck getting Ramos convicted for 2nd degree murder based on that and the DA’s case against Jay Cyclops is even weaker because his actions according to the DA did not cause Kelly’s death and lets not forget that they completely skipped over Wolfe’s actions.
If any of the recordings start shortly after Officer Ramos contacts Kelly, the defense lawyers are going to say “gee we don’t know what was said or done before hand”.
The DA want their hands clean, they want to say “Hey! We charged them. Don’t blame us. Blame the jury for not convicting them”.
This is also why those officers are still getting paid. The FPD doesn’t want them suing them for “wrongful termination” when they are acquitted.
In the meantime I expect some sort of multi million dollar settlement with Ron between the time this goes to trial and before the verdict to shut him up.
They’re not going to work with Garo Mardirossia to go over additional evidence, they are not going to add additional charges, they are not going to call all of their witnesses and they have no interest in the medical reports released by Ron Thomas.
This is not justice for Kelly. This is a whitewash.
The DAs trying to escape this case. The DA has his contributors to answer to. That’s the bottom line.
*EyeNeverSayNo* I know you don’t like my style and I will not apologize for that
I wouldn’t care if Allen was a 90 vet of 3 wars.. an authority lover and coddler is just that..
I think you lie about your background and career not having anything to do with the legal system..
anyhow.. what do you think about that sexy bail
Mexican dude started it.. JAY FINISHED KELLYS LIFE
I don’t have a problem with your style, just much of the content of your posts.
For example, I think you were very wrong to encourage folks to take firearms to the Kelly Thomas Memorial Concert, thereby escalating the potential for serious violence and mayhem. And I think it was also wrong for you to post that you would like to beat a couple of us to “within an inch” of our lives just because you don’t agree with the opions we post on the internet.
Along with other non-Phi Beta Kappa stuff you’ve written on FFF, this leads me to believe, and I’m being kind here, that your judgment isn’t the best, and that you let your emotions get in the way of rational thought.
Oh and as for Allen, I have pretty much just skipped over his comments. My focus this morning has been on the issue presented by Mr. Peabody in this latest FFF blog entry.
My feeling about your judgment aside, what do you think? Should the DA make his best evidence public at this time?
A Whitewash:
I hate to say it but I believe you’re correct.
So…first you say your children are in the Fullerton School District, then you say you have no children, AND you say that, “we should dodge the real issues.” Sheesh. You are not only a liar, you are also completely ignorant.
I think you’re mixing up your blogs. I never said I have no kids. You are mixing yourself up here. Try not to get confused and make a fool out of yourself
Per Allen’s very own comment above, towards the beginning of this thread, “I am a resident of Fullerton and my children are in the Fullerton School District. I am sickened to think that Chris Thompson is part of our school’s leadership and I will do everything in my power to remove him from his position.
Then, a little further down in the thread, Allen states in another comment,
“I actually have no kids. but still, my point is that we should dodge the real issues and concentrate on owners of this blog.”
Either you are on mind altering drugs, or you are a liar. You are definitely not only a “fool,” but you are also a court jester for the FPD.
I didn’t make it this far down on the comments before noting and pretty much saying the same thing.
That’s exactly what you said, Allen. He quoted what you wrote and everything.
Hey Allen, since you like to call people ignorant, I invite you to attend the next protest and do so.
I don’t need to show up.. You protestors are doing fine by yourselves
Arent you the big guy wearing the light blue shirt who showed up with his wife and tried to stir up trouble with protesters last Saturday?
by MeYou on September 26, 2011
not bragging in the least.. but I can bench 150lb dumbells in each hand
How much did Kelly weigh? HOW MUCH
sigh.. and you think the other 4 had their backs turned?
Watch out FPD!!! Here comes another idiot through your front door. He’s gonna clean house!!!!!
LOL SHUT UP YOU IDIOT!
Potential jurors who are familiar with the video will be weeded out. Voir dire.
or a questionnaire prior to voir dire
This is incorrect.
Neither side can necessarily ‘weed out’ jurors ‘for cause’ that may have heard the audio or seen the video evidence. And in California, in a two-party trial, each side is allowed just 6 ‘peremptory challenges’ for cause.
As long as the potential juror can truthfully answer yes to being able to abide by the part of the juror’s oath charging them to consider only the law and evidence in arriving at their verdict, then there is no cause to exclude that juror.
Yes but people can be dishonest when filling out the questionnaire. It’s not foolproof.
“It’s not foolproof.”
True, but even if it were, there is more to consider.
First, one doesn’t need to know much about the voir dire process to understand clearly that pre-trial publicity affects even the most objective potential jurors among us. This is why Barnett began his posturing hours before the DA even announced the charges, and one of the reasons why T-Rack gave such a forceful, closing argument-like presentation the other day.
Second, this is a very high profile case, and only the most doltish among us have not already heard at least some of the details. Neither side wants dolts on the jury, especially the prosecution, so prosecutors will typically ask something like this of potential jurors during voir dire:
“Now you understand that the law says that a juror cannot consider anything other than the evidence that comes out here in court from the witness stand. You cannot consider what you might have read or heard about the case. When you are sworn as a juror, you have to take an oath that you will consider only the law and evidence in arriving at your verdict. I need to know if you can accept and abide by such an oath?”
Notice that prospective jurors are told they cannot consider what they’ve read or heard *about* the case, but its not reasonable to tell jurors they can’t consider evidence they’ve seen prior to trial if that same evidence is then introduced.
As a practical matter under the law, and this is important to understand, just because a potential juror has seen the video or heard the audio does not mean that this is reasonable grounds for dismissal ‘for cause.’ Both sides are limited to just six ‘peremptory challenges’ they can use to dismiss jurors without cause.
Allen, I am truely not enraged, I don’t even live in Fullerton but in one of the cities close by. I have supported this cause since I heard about from some of my friends who do live in Fullerton. It is a shame that your city has become the next Bell, and sooner then you think your city will be in financial demise. Dad, so why didn’t Uncle Bob stop the others from beating the defenseless homeless man, until he died? Is Uncle Bob a bully? Well son the truth is not all officers can be trusted, just like not all doctors, lawyers, etc. Uncle Bob made a poor choice that night, and he will pay the price of that choice for a very long time! And Yes son Uncle Bob in an instant became a murding bully.
Dad, why do people like peanut call Uncle Bob a murdering bully when they weren’t even there to see what Uncle Bob saw?
That’s because many people like “peanut” prejudge people. Remember when the american citizens blamed Hurricane Katrina on our President?
Its a completely different situation here but there are many people like “peanut” who think like that.
You sound like the same sort of fool who also told little Johnny that all Priests in the Catholic church should be trusted and their authority never questioned…and look how that turned out for little Johnny.
Is that really protecting your son?
Kelly’s case required a simple restraint for medical reasons. It did not require physical abuse, assaults, tasering, or yelling “stop resisting” to effect the containment. Putting someone on their stomachs and then sitting on them is highly lethal.
Restraint Asphyxia – Silent Killer, Part ONE http://bit.ly/qwaL2x
Those bastards knew what they were doing.
Police Officers are scary fuckers.
Allen,
I truly respect your opinions. I say what I say because I am a retired LEO. I have worked with people like Ramos, Cicinelli and the such. I have had to admonish them; that is, I would not stand for their brutality while they worked with me. One time, one of them put a pair of handcuffs on an inmate, and they were on so tight, as to eventually cause permanent damage; I would also have been named in the lawsuit. I loosened the cuffs to the correct setting, and told that deputy that I would never work with him again.
This is the “system” that is in place. Two officers work together; one will be more physical than his/her partner. It is the other officer who has a positive duty to bring things to a halt, if they perceive their partner is getting out of control.
There were 6 of these SOB’s there, and not one had the decency or integrity to stop that insanity they called policing. One, with a conscience, should have been enough to say, “Ok, Enough”, but not one voice was heard, and not one officer intervened to end the assault.
Law enforcement takes an oath to not only uphold the Constitution of the United States, but uphold the laws of the land. Sorely missing in that oath, is the part where they swear to abide by the laws they are empowered with to uphold.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
I’m sorry but I have a hard time belieiving that you were a LEO. Definitely not an LEO supervisor. If you were a police officer then you would understand why the system played out as it did.
If you were a cop then you would understand protocol. You don’t arrive on scene and immediately make an assumption that the police were engaged in a crime and stop something from happening that you could not possibly process in your mind at the initial observation. THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE.
I highly doubt you are a retired police officer. You sound more like a retired keystone cop.
The air must be really thin up there where you’ve placed yourself, because you obviously believe that everyone else is a liar that doesn’t go along with your moronic way of thinking.
I honestly feel sorry for your kids when the reality of the world slams them awake from the fairy tales that you’ve been feeding them throughout their lives.
9C- you are wasting your time on Allen the 12th century dragon-he/she is nuts
Hi Uncle Bob
D.A.: One by one, officers piled on Thomas
http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-318616-ramos-wolfe.html
Quote:
BY ALEJANDRA MOLINA AND DENISSE SALAZAR / THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER
A team of six-full time Orange County district attorney’s investigators and one supervising investigator were assigned to the Kelly Thomas case.
District Attorney Tony Rackauckas described the conduct of six Fullerton police officers involved in the fatal beating of the mentally ill transient at a packed news conference earlier this week.
Two of the six officers have been charged in connection with his death and all of the officers remain on paid administrative leave.
The death certificate lists the cause of death for Thomas as asphyxia caused by “mechanical chest compression with blunt cranial-facial injuries sustained during physical altercation with law enforcement.”
The district attorney said Thomas died because of the weight of the officers on his chest, which made it impossible to breathe.
Here’s a look at the role each of the six played in the death of Thomas, according to the district attorney:
Name: Manuel Ramos
Age: 37
Experience: 10 years
Charges: Second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter
Role: Ramos is accused of launching a lethal assault on Thomas with words that had him fearing for his life on the evening of July 5 at the Fullerton Transportation Center.
According to prosecutors, Ramos at 8:37 p.m. went to investigate reports of a homeless man looking in car windows and pulling on handles of parked cars. Ramos spotted Thomas and ordered him to sit on the curb with his hands on his knees and his legs outstretched. Ramos then stepped away to speak with officer Joseph Wolfe, went back to Thomas and made a deliberate show of pulling on latex gloves.
Ramos is accused of repeatedly instructing Thomas to sit with his hands on his knees and his legs outstretched. Thomas would temporarily comply and then move his hands behind him in order to lean back on them.
Prosecutors said the beating began when Ramos confronted Thomas with fists raised and told him, “Now, see my fists? They are getting ready to f— you up.”
Thomas answered: “Start punching, dude,” according to the district attorney’s account.
“By making this threat of violence against Thomas, Ramos is accused of instilling in the victim a reasonable fear that the officers were going to unlawfully cause serious physical harm to him,” Rackauckas said.
Ramos continued to exchange words with Thomas and then grabbed his left arm. Thomas pulled away and ran.
Ramos took out his baton and Thomas lifted his hands to chest height, with his palms open in a defensive stance to block Ramos. That’s when Ramos stepped forward and swung his baton at Thomas’ left thigh, according to the district attorney. Thomas turned and ran, Ramos chased after him and a physical altercation ensued.
Ramos is accused of tackling Thomas to the ground and punching him several times in the left ribs, using his hands to hold Thomas’ neck, and partially lying on Thomas to use his own body weight to pin him to the ground.
Prosecutors said Ramos did not inform the other officers at the scene that he had made menacing threats against Thomas or ask the officers to stop their use of force against Thomas.
Name: Joseph Wolfe
Age: 36
Experience: 12 years
Charges: No charges
Role: At the time Thomas stood up and faced Ramos, Wolfe ran to them from the back of the patrol vehicle, which was about 10 to 15 feet away, where he had been reviewing the contents inside Thomas’ backpack. The bus depot area was noisy at that time because of car and bus traffic.
Wolfe faced Thomas and drew his baton. As Thomas backed away, Wolfe continued to approach him and struck Thomas in the left leg with his baton. Thomas then turned and ran in front of a parked patrol vehicle. As Ramos chased him, Wolfe ran the opposite direction around the back of the patrol vehicle and met Thomas and Ramos on the other side. A physical altercation ensued.
Wolfe tackled Thomas to the ground with Ramos, kneed and punched him, and used his body weight to minimize Thomas’ movement as other officers arrived.
The available evidence does not show that Wolfe was aware of the physical threat Ramos made against Thomas, which escalated the lawful detainment to an unlawful use of force, the district attorney said.
Also, the evidence does not show that Wolfe was aware he was assisting in the restraint of a victim who had been subjected to excessive force by Ramos, according to the district attorney.
Name: Cpl. Jay Cicinelli
Age: 39
Experience: 12 years
Charges: Involuntary manslaughter and one felony count of use of excessive force
Role: Cicinelli arrived at the scene at 8:54 p.m. in his own patrol vehicle in response to the two calls for assistance from Wolfe. When he got there, Thomas was on the ground with Ramos and Wolfe on top of him engaged in a struggle. Ramos’ arm was entangled with Thomas’ arm.
According to the district attorney, Cicinelli kneed Thomas twice in the head and used his Taser four times on Thomas, including three times as a “drive stun” directly to Thomas’ body for about five seconds each. Then, Cicinelli conducted a “dart deployment,” in which two darts connected to wires were fired from the Taser and attached to Thomas for roughly 12 seconds.
Cicinelli used the front end of the Taser to hit Thomas in the head and facial area eight times. Thomas made no audible sound while being hit with the Taser. The last hit from the Taser was the last strike to Thomas.
According to the district attorney, Cicinelli unreasonably and unnecessarily used the Taser on Thomas, given that Thomas was pinned to the ground by multiple officers and was vulnerable with his head and face exposed.
Cicinelli kneeled on Thomas’ body to use his own body weight to pin him to the ground. After paramedics arrived, Cicinelli is accused of commenting about his use of force and the physical damage to Thomas.
Name: Kenton Hampton
Age: 41
Experience: 5 years
Charges: No charges
Role: Hampton arrived at the scene after Cicinelli at 8:54 p.m. in his own patrol vehicle in response to the two calls for assistance from Wolfe. When he got there, Thomas was on the ground with Ramos, Wolfe and Cicinelli on top of him engaged in a struggle.
Hampton was holding handcuffs and looked for an opportunity to cuff Thomas. He placed a handcuff around Thomas’ left wrist. He assisted in securing Thomas’ ankles and held his legs down using his hands.
The available evidence does not show that Hampton was aware, upon arriving at the scene, that he was assisting in the restraint of a victim who had been subjected to excessive force by other Fullerton police officers, according to the district attorney.
Name: Sgt. Kevin Craig
Age: 44
Experience: 15 years
Charges: No charges
Role: Craig went to the scene at 8:56 p.m. in response to two calls for assistance from Wolfe. When he arrived, Thomas was on the ground with Ramos, Wolfe and Cicinelli on top of him engaged in a struggle, Hampton holding his feet.
Craig put one knee on Thomas’ back area to minimize his movement.
The district attorney said that the evidence does not show that Craig was aware upon arriving at the scene that he was assisting in the restraint of a victim who had been subjected to excessive force by other officers.
Name: Cpl. James Blatney
Age: 42
Experience: 18 years
Charges: No charges
Role: Blatney arrived at the scene at 8:57 p.m. in response to two calls for assistance from Wolfe. When he arrived, Thomas was on the ground with Ramos, Wolfe and Cicinelli on top of him engaged in a struggle, Hampton was holding his feet, and Craig was restraining him with a knee to the back area.
Blatney assisted Hampton in securing Thomas’ ankles and then held his legs down with his hands, according to the district attoreny.
Paramedics arrived at 9 p.m.
The district attorney said that the evidence does not show that Blatney was aware upon arriving at the scene that he was assisting in the restraint of a victim who had been subjected to excessive force by other officers.
Contact the writer: 714-704-3709 or desalazar@ocregister.com
See complete Kelly Thomas coverage
See a photo recap of the death of Kelly Thomas
Cut n Paste;
Nice Job MeYou
once again your lack of intelligence and honest is failing your supposed children
Thanks for making the world a more fucked up place
I always clarified what was idiotic about you .. care to clarify what was idiotic about
saying 4 cops were already murdering Kelly when JAY CINCINELLI SHOWED UP .. and they continued to hold him down so JAY COULD FINISH HIM OFF
ONE THING that is obvious is eyeneversayno is TOTALLY avoiding my question about the
District Attorney Tony Rackauckas
Setting Jays bail at 25k
but Allen is ok with that.. the 25k bail
What is your question? Is it down lower?
I’m happy to answer any specific question from anyone.
Okay, on re-reading your post above I think you are asking why the DA set Cicinelli’s bail so low. First, understand that it was the judge presiding over Cicinelli’s arraignment that set the bail. The DA could have asked for a higher bail, but would have had to have shown good cause, such as Ciccinelli’s past record with regard to failure to appear, a valid threat to flee, etc.
Do you undertand that bail is set not to punish but rather simply to assure that the defendant shows up for trial?
Do you really think Cicinelli is a threat to flee the court’s jurisdiction?
Allen,
Please do come to the protest, and I will prove I am retired. I will be the one wearing the Marine Corp hat and t-shirt. I am easy to talk to, and not a threat to anyone.
I’m sure you are easy to talk to. But a retired Fed, State, Municipal Cop? I think not..
9c1copcar is the one who can keep his cool when talking to any evil.. not me.. I see no excuse available for people like Allen.. NONE
and yes, I do respect 9c1copcar for a strength I am not willing to have when it comes to evil like Allen and the DA
be patient, the fbi is not finished yet..
you arrive and watch your fellow peace officer murder a citizen and turn the other way and do not do anything about it.. IS THAT COP PROTOCOL?
THREE WEEKS they kept badges on Jay and Ramos
FACTS SCARE YOU.. is why you should not be a parent
facts don’t scare me. Irresponsible journalism does.
Don’t forget, he bench presses 150lbs in each hand!! (but he wasn’t bragging). When he’s sitting behind his keyboard NOTHING scares Allen … except maybe mandatory steroid testing for cops.
If calling me an idiot makes you feel one up on me, knock yourself out. I just thought when you flattered yourself about what you could bench I thought it deserved a reply.
Flattered. .hmm..
are you such a sloth-like coward that it would take you and FIVE of your friends to put handcuffs on Kelly Thomas?
see.. you hide from reality..
scared to talk to him?
He is probably a 19yr old kid who has McKinley listed as one of his Heroes
No have no ties with McKinley but I am more than happy to waste your time.
According to court documents, from time to time Michael Vick and his cohorts “rolled” the dogs: put them in the pit for short battles to see which ones had the right stuff. Those that fought got affection, food, vitamins and training sessions. The ones that showed no taste for blood were killed — by gunshot, electrocution, drowning, hanging or, being repeatedly slammed against the ground.
In August 2007, he pleaded guilty to federal felony charges and served 21 months in prison, followed by 2 months in home confinement. The agreement required him to pay $928,000 for the care and treatment of the dogs, including any humane destruction deemed necessary. That was the landmark moment.
His colleagues and the entire gang also indicted with severe federal punishments.
The “victimization and killing of pit bulls” was considered as aggravating circumstances that led prosecutors to exceed the federal sentencing guidelines for the charge.
An outpouring of dedication and compassion led to string decisions that set precedents. There were thousand of books and news coverages about Michael Vick Dogs.
Allen,
My dept. was located in L.A. County. Please come to the protest. I would enjoy bantering with you.
You have already joined Kelly’s Army and believe that all six caused the death of Thomas. You even caledl the sgt who arrived on scene (#6) an SOB.
You are entitled to your opinion but what good would a words exchange do between us.
Enjoy the support you get from the protestors who continue to crucify FPD and the hard work they have done and continue to do. Be simple minded and continue to focus on the few bad apples in law enforcement overshadow all of law enforcement..
I am sorry to know that you are retired and are protesting on Fullerton streets.
If the FPD won’t get rid of the “few bad apples,” and instead keeps them working out on the streets for four weeks after a murder has been committed, and allows cops to view videos together before writing their reports, and re-writing and re-writing their reports, and the spokesman lies to the public, and the chief views the video and then goes on vacation during a time of crisis, and then goes on “medical leave,” and there are many, many other officers within the dept. who have also committed crimes….well, I, and most of Fullerton, and most of the state, as well as most of the country, believes that there is an ENDEMIC problem that needs to be brought under scrutiny with VERY bright lights indeed.
Your self pitying whining is NOT going to make good citizens, who oppose excessive force, brutality and murder by cop, just go away.
IF, as you assert, the FPD is so “hard working,” and you are SO concerned about the “hard working” cops, perhaps you might suggest that they could all work just a little bit harder, and help to get ALL of the scumbag, lying, covering up, excessive force using, out of control, murderers, out of the FPD.
But, then again, maybe NONE of them really have enough integrity, or bravery, to come out in the open and stand up for the truth. Maybe they are just willing to continue working around EVIL, LYING, SEXUAL PREDATORS, THIEVES, ABUSERS, AND MURDERERS.
If that is the case, if the officers and the FPD brass and city hall are not willing to root out the evil, then the citizens WILL. We are NOT afraid to call a spade a spade. WE WILL work to disband the FPD, if need be.
The honest and good FPD LE, active or retired, are very much welcome, and appreciated, to stand up for truth, integrity and justice along with the rest of us citizens.
If you don’t focus on the “few bad apples” then over time, there will be more. We cannot look the other way, sweep things under the carpet and pretend that wrong things don’t and haven’t happened. In fact, looking the other way and refusing to deal with problems can eventually lead to them escalating and becoming worse. I suspect this is what has happend to FPD and many other law enforcement agencies. You must hold those who’s jobs it is to upold the law to the hightest standards. This is not the only incident in Fullerton, although it is the most extreme one that we know of, since it led to the death of a man. A man is dead and he died in a horrible and brutal way and it was wrong. These other incidents that have been emerging with other complaints against the FPD are an indication that things were getting out of hand and out of control. I believe there good, law abiding police officers. I have no doubt of that. But to simply say, “well, most of them are good” and look the other way is irresponsible at best and criminal at worst. It is possible that without the public outcry things would have moved along in due process but there is enough information emerging that there were warning signs all along, problems with how some officers were treating citizens, and clear indications, after going through due process that there were coverups and deceit on the part of LE in relation to inappropriate arrests and use of excessive force. It is absolutely 100% in the best interest of the “good opples” that you hold the “bad apples” accountable and that they be given consequences for their inappropriate or illegal behavior. In fact, when you hold them accountable and give them consequences, this will be a deterrant for others who might otherwise end up as one of the “bad apples.” It also gives more support to the good officers to feel that they can come forward and speak up when they seen their fellow officers engaging in wrong behavior and hopefully weaken the often powerful pressure to conform.
*hightest* should read highest
FPD spokeshole Andrew Goodrich, chief Seller, and the rest must be prosecuted.
It is a next to impossible tasks but can be done, if and only if, we have a fair trials, investigation from FBI and judges with integrity.
The DA is refusing no deal with hope that the cases will be thrown out. Also, the DA is does not want Ramos and Cinnelli giving up more cops and upper bosses in the gang.
Dear Blogger-“Rooky”,
I am not sure anymore that we need Ramos, in order to expose what really went on. I have now seen that four cops SUPPOSEDLY responded to a call made by Officer Joseph Wolfe. If he made the call from the patrol car’s radio, then the broadcast should be available.
How many of the other four were in a police car and responded to the broadcast by Officer Wolfe? Where, exactly, was each of the other four officers, when the broadcast was made? Has it been confirmed for each one of the other four responding officers?
Not one, but TWO calls for help. Calls for help by a guy who is sitting in a car, knows that the bag he is inspecting has no obvious stolen items, and who is watching Officer Ramos talk to a guy who is sitting down, not running around, and half-naked. It is clear that Officer Ramos kept talking and talking and talking, until Officer Wolfe could make his calls, and until four other officers showed up.
It is too coincidental that Officer Ramos keeps talking-threatening, talking-threatening, talking-threatening, and buying time, and temporizing, until the other four responders show up. These circumstances are enough to permit a “trier of fact” to infer that Officer Ramos was waiting to start Kelly Thomas’s flight at just the last minute, as the other four are arriving within a three-minute period. After seventeen minutes of talking, lecturing, cajoling.
Another fragment of evidence: it was not the threat of a fist-beating that got Kelly Thomas moving. What caused him to run was that he got whacked on the thigh with a night-stick. He was not taking the verbal bait, and Officer Ramos knew it. It took the infliction of corporal pain to get Kelly Thomas to finally move — sort of like shooting a pistol towards someone’s feet, and commanding him or her to “Dance!”. This is important, because a trier of fact could easily infer that there was a prior plan to somehow, someway, cause Kelly Thomas to flee away from Officer Ramos, and thereby allow the capture by Officer Joseph Wolfe.
It is also notable that Officer Ramos did not ask Kelly Thomas if he would consent to just let Officer Ramos hand-cuff him, to keep him from fleeing. A huge portion of detainees will cooperate, because they are afraid of getting charged with the crime of “resisting arrest”. A trier of fact could infer from this, that Officer Ramos had no intention to try to keep Kelly Thomas from fleeing; that in turn suggests that he had a purpose to cause Kelly Thomas to flee.
Anytime a well-trained, seasoned policeman like Officer Ramos — who did not have a Conga-line of complaints against him — performs a “detention” [that is a technical term in policing and the law of arrest] in an irregular and unnecessarily threatening manner, there is something amiss. Why would Officer Ramos make an illegal threat to batter with his fists, knowing that a recording device was going?
The answer? Officer Ramos recited a script that he had been told to use. He did what he was told, and now he has been made a patsy for predesigned capture-murder. And the DA admits that the cumulative weight of six officers caused the compressive asphyxiation… but does not charge all six with “aiding and abetting a facially illegal use of excess weight to restrain a detainee”.
There are so many obvious things that the DA is overlooking, that point to a conspiracy to publicly kill Kelly Thomas, and to make it look like a case of “police-panic brutality”. Oh well.
Another clue: The Mastermind sought, in starting the conspiracy to kill Kelly Thomas, to please the one who is in the same situation as the Twelfth Imam.
Best wishes, Abu Jubrayl, WSH
“…a conspiracy to publicly kill Kelly Thomas… The Mastermind sought, in starting the conspiracy to kill Kelly Thomas, to please the one who is in the same situation as the Twelfth Imam.
Best wishes, Abu Jubrayl…”
OMG
“…but I am more than happy to waste your time.”
Very good reason why the rest of you should refrain from further acknowledging this…person.
Probably the smartest guy on this blog
9c1 question, what’s the deal with the signs laying all over the grass at the protest?
Were they mass-produced for protesters to choose from?
Allen on September 26, 2011
Good example here of being judged without facts
It is you who is making snap judgements about me. Keystone cops?…..I think not!!
This is a different Allen IDENTITY THEFT!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!!
M.U.R.
Yes they were. Also, if the numbers were higher, everyone would have a chance at one.
I like the fake allen and I hate the real allen.
Hello Admin, thanks for the reply. No you are not on the public payroll. You hide behind the 1st Ammendment. Throw jabs and use this site to provoke an uprising against the officials who protect your rights.
You guys are just a bunch of hateful activists who thrive on other peoples misery to make a point for nothing more than an a personal agenda.
In case you got here late to class Allen, let me help you catch up. We’re all in agreement here that Kelly Thomas was not extended the same protection of his civil rights you speak so passionately of, and was instead murdered in cold blood by those same “officials” that we hired to protect and serve us all. Are we clear on that or should I go through it again for you a little
s-l-o-w-e-r?
Even if it’s Allen who is the victim, I still think moniker-jacking is chickenshit .
Merjoe the upper brass will silence ramos. He may have many crimes to report which could threaten their deals. Ramos knows where the bodies are buried. Ramos will be dealt with in the can.
If you were the sgt who arrived on scene – tell me; when would you have resigned from the force and turned yourself in to the DA and plead guilty for murder.
You said you were a supervisor so when would you have turned in your badge. Well??????
When one of your officers caused injury to an inmate, what accountability did you take. I hope you got that officer fired and charged with excessive force.
You are putting yourself on a pedestal sir. Personally, I think you are dreaming.. You were never a cop.
Since you admonished a deputy, then I guess L.A. County Sheriff’s Department. A much more sensitive department.
Sir, you are full of it!
Totally agree!
Allen,
I will admit, I have a personal agenda here; want to hear it? It is law enforcement as it was intended; helpful, honest, trust-worthy, and respected. How can I just sit at home, when the profession I love so much is invaded with thugs that abuse people, and violate their rights daily? Maybe you can, however, I cannot, and will not.
I used to work for a gunshop for 6 years, and during that time, I helped many a gun-hater purchase a firearm, because they had been the victim of a robbery.
Their whole montra had been that gun owners are criminals that had not comitted any crimes…YET!! That all changed when they realized firearms do save lives in the right hands.
You speak of the FPD as all good. I am proud of those officers there and around the country, that do put in an honest, truthful, citzen-helping, crime-fighting shift. I am sorry for those good officers who have to wear the stain that some of their fellow officers have painted on their uniforms by their actions.
When the govt. literally give the officers of this country the power of life and death, it is imperative that we keep a tight rein on them, and demand that they follow the laws they all work so hard in making us aware of the ones we break.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
9c1 did you work downtown L.A.? Pitchess? Lynwood? Just wondering not doubting. I have several deputies whom you may have known that I knew.
Allen,
I never said I was a supervisor, and the deputy that put the handcuffs on too tight….no harm came to the inmate because of my actions.
I will admit I do not know what the 6th officer did physically, however, when it came to write the reports, even you cannot say that was S.O.P..
M.U.R.,
I worked downtown and Pitchess. I would probably not know those deputies, as the dept. is quie large.
In my experience if a cuffed subject complains of cuffs being too tight, the officer who cuffed him usually checks to see if this is the case, or if the subject is BSing.
Typically the “finger test” is used. If the officer can insert a finger between the cuff and the subject’s skin, they are not considered too tight.
I was also going to say that trusting in all officers is what I want to do, however, and sadly, it is not reality. I have had these thugs from my own dept. swarm my oldest son, when all he was doing is sitting at a corner in his car. Once they found out his father was a retired deputy, their shit stopped. I, myself, have been pulled over illegaly several times in the same area just for being on the road and nothing else. Once they saw my badge, they took off with their tails between their legs. To this day, I have to check up on their actions. Do you think I am happy about that?
Allen, I do hope you talk to your children about the good of police officers.
M.U.R.,
You are correct. Also, double-locking them insures that the cuffs will not click to a tighter setting.
I totally agree with you!! There is not one thing you said here that I disagree with. Believe me, I have the same philosophy you do.
But I differ greatly from you when it comes to accusing all six. I’m sure you understood Govt Code 3300. I myself would never speak out without all of the facts.
Fullerton PD Admin did everything by the book. anything outside of that would have left the Citizens of Fullerton (The Employer) open for liability.. More than they already are.
Since you are familiar with the criminal justice system you should know what the ramifications are when speaking out pior to a complete investigation. It would totaly jeopordize it!
I take it that you would have goneand broken with policy and jeopordized a long career for nothing then? All for ruining an investigation aimed at the truth.
I know how the process works and I have no doubt that these officers would have faced charges regardless of the uprising. You should know this as well. If not, then I’m sure you would have chosen to resign from LASO rather than retire because of an incident that you know would have gone public due to a leak that the media jumped on because it was “sensational”.
You are charactorizing yourself as a nobal person for taking on this endeavor. Perhaps it might have been better for you to have taken on this cause long ago. Your words would definitely have more credence.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
9c1
A suggestion I’d make to better inform the average citizen of their rights is to buy a police officer handbook, available at many uniform stores.
Tells police officers exactly what they can and cannot do in regards to investigative stops, search and seizure, etc. and is full of current case law from CA courts, the 9th Circuit, and the US Supreme Court.
Allen,
You are correct in that I now have some freedoms to speak out since retiring. When I was on, I was bound by the same silence that all are. I will not expound any further than that.
M.U.R…
That is a great idea. Earlier in the blogs, I also suggested getting a CVC. handbook, and a penal code book to carry in one’s vehicle.
I just got in from working in the field today in construction. I see that there is a new poster named Allen. No matter whether I agree with him or not, I will die defending his right to have his opinions.
I want to also extend, for my friend 9c1copcar, the invitation for Allen to approach 9c on any Saturday. You will find he is an honorable guy. Like I said before, he was a deputy sheriff and a Marine. Talk with him to exchange ideas over peaceful conversation. He doesn’t bite neither does Fedup. They just stnad for principle and obeying the law, no matter who you might be.
I do have one civil question for you Allen. How is it that the Fullerton police and the district attorney viewed the same tape and listened to the same audio and came up with 180 degree divergent opinions abbout what happened on July 5th ???
The DA said a murder happened while the brass at the Fullerton PD said it was business as usual. Is Tony R a police hater as well ???
Let us all know your answer as I for one anxiously await your response.
Thanks
I’m not too concerned about the local prosecution of the FPD.
I know that WHEN-not IF-the Feds file charges, justice will be served.
Remember how those filthy NOPD cops skated on the local level? Well, we all know where they are now. 🙂
I posted that comment as Anonymous; I’m on a computer for once as opposed to my phone, and forgot to enter my username.
I think I like the mobile format much better. The only advantage to a computer is it doesn’t take forever to scroll down on a “Grapes of Wrath” length post.
LMFAO…“Grapes of Wrath” length post…classic!!! Hope you don’t mind I am going to steal that line from you =)
Hey!
Let me get this straight: The DA is charging 2 cops with murder and manslaughter, but there were at least 6 cops directly involved. Was not the felonious assault carried out right in front of the 4 uncharged cops? Did those other cops not witness a felony? And did nothing about it because the felony was being committed by their fellow cops?
So it is true what they say, that all cops are bad cops because even the supposedly good ones are accessories to felonies during and after the fact!!!
Rackauckas’ “engineered failures”
Mr. Snow Hume can you please expatiate?
Dear Blogger- “James Cameron”,
By the time I finish making a reply to or comment about a “blog”, the entire “thread” has doubled in length. I am afraid I am not up to speed in this “Web 2.0” world!
I have been providing details in a variety of different blog-responses, about the things which the DA has obviously not investigated. But a failure to find out the extent of a crime is not, of course, an “engineered failure”.
What I mean by “engineered failure” is the structuring of a case, such that it leaves defenses available to the defendant. For instance, Mike Capizzi accepted an executive assignment during the Great Bankruptcy, knowing that it was not only “ultra vires” under California’s General Law for counties, but it also became the basis for “conflict of interest” as a defense that allowed the dismissals of most of the criminal-dereliction cases against the County officials. And let’s not forget that Mike Capizzi, early in the bankruptcy, admitted that he knew of the unlawful acts by Citron et al., but claimed that they were “civil matters”; it was I who proved that these could and should be prosecuted as crimes, and prosecutor-turned-State Senator Quentin Kopp publicly backed me up. Only then were various County officials charged for their official crimes.
On to 2011. DA Rackauckas has created a perfect “selective prosecution” defense for Officer Ramos. In fact, it is a “2-dimensional” defense: four other officers were not charged, even though the evidence makes out several crimes, irrespective of whether one believes their own self-exculpatory statements. Second dimension: Officer Cicinelli commits worse brutalities, but is given a lighter charging, and very light bail recommendation. And we have not even yet talked about the fact that he is a Latino, and the uncharged officers are not; a really talented specialist in selective prosecution could introduce that as a “Third Dimension”.
Then there is the causation problem. It is easy to overlook, but a law school exam in First Year Introduction to Criminal Law would not. The forensics are such, that a trier of fact could find that this case is analogous to “Murder on the Orient Express” or to “Gosford Park”: how can one fairly blame just one of the contributors or perpetrators? This issue is related to the Selective Prosecution problem, but it still has a substantially separate set of factual elements. Let me give one example: What if Kelly’s parents had kept Kelly on a respirator for one year and a day? Then, the “death within one year of the injury” requirement for “causation” would not be satisfied. So Officer Ramos should, really, argue that the proximate cause of death was the decision to turn off the machine, and that otherwise he would not have been subject to any homicide charge. Even if the brain is dead, if the heart beats, the victim is alive.
Further, many percipient witnesses still have not been interviewed by the DA, much less asked to testify under oath before the Grand Jury. That creates problems of incomplete investigation. If the DA relied inordinately upon the taped recording of Officer Ramos’s words, and not upon the eyewitness testimonies, then if anything fails in the DA’s use of the tape-recorded evidence of what Officer Ramos said, then the whole case is left riding on nothing, because no preparation has been made to run the case without that critical evidence.
Now, some more history. Most people do not know that retired Supreme Court Justice Ronald George had been a Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge, and had presided over the Hillside Strangler case. When one of the defendants began to play the “multiple personality disorder” game, the prosecution wanted to give up, feeling that it had lost its only credible witness against the other defendant. Judge George refused, saying that there was probable cause for charging the crime, and that the mere fact that the prosecution thinks it cannot win is no excuse to ask that the case be dropped. He followed precedent from 1899 in so ruling. The rest is history: the multiple personality trick was exposed as a lie, and the prosecution won a victory. I like to tell the story, because it highlights that a prosecutor has a duty to prosecute when probable cause exists as a matter of law, even if the prosecution does not think that it can win!
Now, start to mesh some of the above problems together. If guilty officers have not been charged, then the defendant will get eyewitnesses who will testify about what really happened, as seen from an angle or vantage-point that is not seen from the video or videos. And that may undermine the jury’s confidence in finding “causation” by Officer Ramos. And it may bolster their willingness to make a Special Jury Verdict that there was Selective Prosecution.
Well, enough at this point. When I attack DA Rackauckas, it is equivalent to attacks on the King of England in the Declaration of Independence. The Founding Fathers well knew that King George III did not cause many of the policies from which they suffered; but it would have been truly treasonous, in their minds, to not formally ascribe the litany of wrongs to him. (That Red Box comes every day but Christian holidays, you know.) Similarly, I know that the DA cannot perform all of the investigations AND do all of the research into the applicable law. This kind of a case involves a collossal amount of legal research, in both state and federal law. This blog-site is the only hope I have that my issues can actually get to Tony Rackauckas, and will not be filtered out by those corrupt Assistant and Supervising Deputy DA staff who are underneath him. I fear that Mr. Rackauckas may really not be aware of how disgusted are the people outside of his Office, who have enough legal training to know what is wrong with the failures to charge “one or more of the Other Four.”
It took federal prosecution to get things right in the Rodney King case. The state case was bungled by a prosecution team that acted ineptly for political reasons; don’t just blame the racist jury. It may take federal prosecution to get it right in this case.
Well, that is enough right now about “engineered failure”. Back to Missed Opportunities to Find a Bigger Crime:
Have you ever seen where a lot of the District Attorney’s police investigators come from, before they join the DA’s Office? When did Mike Clesceri retire from the DA’s Office? How many of the DA’s investigators, i.e. police, are trained in organized crime? In the evidentiary law of conspiracy? In how to investigate a conspiracy?
OK. Here is the next clue: The Mastermind did not do it for money. There is no “money trail” to follow here. He did it for the very same reason why Medea originally helped Jason.
WSH
I wonder if the police are able to determine the identies of people on this board and at the protests, if they’ll be targeted in any way?
I mean, look at Ron Thomas supposedly being harrassed by Cypress cops.
Funny you should mention that.
Oh Please!!!!!!
What would be the gain here?
Good example here of what FFFF are really about.
What a joke!!!
Admin is it true that when a law enforcement agency requests logs, etc the court issues a gag order so you can’t talk about it?
There have been no requests for logs by law enforcement agencies.
If such requests were made, would you inform your readers?
Of course.
what do you think. They’re afraid of Ramos and his punk partner giving up other psychos. If the two animals get a chance they will start singing like birds.
THAT IS WHY THE CORRUPT DA SAYS NO DEAL. THESE TWO MONSTERS HAVE MUCH TO DISCLOSE.
THE ONLY HOPE THE BOSSES PRAY FOR IS THAT RAMOS IS SILENCED WHILE IN ISOLATION. CINNELLI WILL BE DEALT WITH BY HIS MASTERS ON THE OUTSIDE. HE’LL DISAPPEAR. THE BOSSES WON’T PUT UP THE MILLION BUCKS BAIL FOR RAMOS, RAMOS WILL BE QUIET SOON.
Expect the FFF website to be go dark soon. A corrupt drunk judge will order it’s closure and the operators arrested. All computer hardware and members list will be confiscated and the corrupt FPD will act quickly and round us up and charge us with crimes against the honest cops in Fullerton. The DA will deal with criminals who have posted on the FFF webste swiftly.
All criminals will be brought to the Fullerton bus depot for public justice for the citizens of the FPD to witness. No cameras allowed this time.
Lol. Too bad that they could just make another website. Also, this isn’t the only place this incident is being talked about. That would be a fatal error on their part shutting anything down. With that they would only cause it to grow bigger and more rapidly than they ever thought possible. It’s a lose-lose situation for them. Lol.
The Moron,
How are you my friend? I really enjoy your company, and what you have to say whenever we meet. I do hope you can join FEDUP and I, along with others to a get together meeting soon.
I don’t think the cops premeditated the killing of Kelly Thomas. I do believe they did not give a flying frigola what happened to him, and when the deed was done they did what all cops do, they closed ranks and covered up their guilt. Just like Mehserle the BART cop.
The DA stated he will not deal. The DAs been ordered to squash this incident and keep the two sacrifical pigs silent until they can be reasoned with.
The evidence will show that it was just another night for the FPD.
If there had been some conspiracy or premeditation to kill Kelly Thomas I think it’s safe to say Cicinelli would not have bragged to the paramedics of all the damage he did to Thomas, as the DA has has accused him of doing, and as is presumably supported by the paramedic’s statements to investigators
I would like for a public release of the recordings from the two separate broadcasts by Officer Wolfe. It was his broadcasts that supposedly got Officer Cicinelli to the scene. If Officer Cicinelli reasonably relied upon false statements about what was going on, then his violence may have been not only predictable, but perhaps even justifiable. Thus, the boasting may be further evidence of what I said before the chargings: one or two cops would be outside of the conspiracy, and then be “set up” to take the blame for excessive force.
Now why wouldn’t it be appropriate to release those two recordings of Officer Wolfe? It is not as if the public would be horrified, and then become desensitized to the horror, as might be the situation for the video tapes.
Allen,
Thanks for showing up. A different point of view certainly gives the regulars something else to do. Because, basically, it generally is hundreds of comments saying the same thing and the ‘me-toos’’ (hint: Merijoe) wracking their brains for new, and even more inflammatory insults to hurl.
I’ve followed the case from across the country and am very interested in seeing justice done and the charges against these two thugs stick. So, I come here daily, because it is always up to date with every new event in the case. And, of course scan the comments. I have posted a viewpoint on occasion, but because I wasn’t parroting the exact opinion as everyone else, within minutes I was shot down, called a troll, told to go back to Massachusetts because “we don’t need you”. Then, of course there were the spelling flamers, and if I remember correctly, I was told to shove it up my ass.
It seems par for the course, because if half the speakers at the open town meeting are posters here, then OMG! I’ve seen better specimens on ‘Cops’ or ‘Intervention’ and I’m sure there were a couple of cat hoarders on the roster as well. And, of course, most were just repeating the same thing. I have to give the council credit, though, that they managed not to break up laughing. The ‘Army’ would have been wise to choose some of the half dozen articulate posters on here to represent them.
I’m pleased that so many people have kept this cause alive, because it is sure to be a landmark case. However, honestly, someone should be appointed to monitor some of the followers. I can easily see a couple of them throwing the first brick when the verdict doesn’t come out right. Then there will be 60’s style martyrdom amongst the crowd, with the outraged overweight, toothless and detoxing throwing themselves in front of every available camera in the hopes of a Youtube debut.
Allen, I’m sure there’s nothing new here that you already don’t know. Just from memory, you were called an unfit parent, a Nazi apologist, a troll (of course) and to “take you meds” (quite unfortunate considering the case being discussed) just for expressing a dissenting opinion. You’re lucky they didn’t do some detecting and ridicule your private life as they did with the ex-FPD who expressed his view. The irony is that no one seems to be able to see that slandering someone’s personal choices is so contrary to the freedom to choose one’s own lifestyle – which most of the posters here would be likely to profess to defend. And, you’re right, the blanket condemnation of the entire FPD is beyond idiotic, since those who had zero to do with this murder, and those who are simply following a career to keep a roof over their heads and doing their jobs the best they can have no culpability. I have a hard time believing that half the meeting attendees are even employable, let alone capable of judging anyone else’s job performance. And, no, flamers, I’m not talking about the six or the other LEOs that have been accused or indicted of other crimes.
So, having opened the door to personal abuse, I’ll go back to lurking. Thanks again, Allen, you livened up the joint, and there’s not much on TV on Mondays anyway.
>>>I can easily see a couple of them throwing the first brick when the verdict doesn’t come out right. <<<
As I said before, a common objective of trolls is to incite a violent reaction in order to discredit a cause. Whenever you see nonsense and gibberish that is unintelligible except for the mocking tone and button-pushing, you are probably dealing with a professional Troll. See Allen above saying, the truth is unique to each individual. If that's the case, how can ANYONE ever be sent to jail because the truth of their guilt cannot ever be proved, because truth is only individual? Allen was not being "stupid," he was being deliberately inflammatory, knowing that his nonsense would do nothing except enrage people who consider the whole Fullerton political establishment to be guilty of murder after the fact in this case.
QUIET YE TROLL MOUF
Actually, Ian, the irony is that you in this manifesto-length post are guilty of the EXACT SAME behaviors you are condemning (I think those in the psychiatric field call it “projecting”).
You go on and on (with great specifics) about how you, Allen, and a few other trolls have been martyrs to the angry, name-calling mob, yet… you do nothing but obnoxiously insult those members of Kelly’s army who have spoken up at the council meetings or participated in rallies.
I have listened to most, if not all, of the council meetings since the murder, and I would have to say that the vast majority of those who have gotten up and spoken in public (no easy task for most people) have been passionate, but also quite intelligent and articulate (with obviously a few, but not many, exceptions).
Your lame, stereotypical characterizations of people based on appearance alone as cat hoarders, drug addicts, violent thugs, etc., would be laughed off if it weren’t so vile and exactly the same way that many people in society, including the murderers, no doubt saw Kelly — as someone “less than” and worthy of not just mockery, but also violence.
Agree.
Sir you watch to much TV and are long winded….you lost my interest at the “me-toos” or something like that.
“And, you’re right, the blanket condemnation of the entire FPD is beyond idiotic”
OK, so murder, numerous police brutality cases, kidnapping, sexual assault, theft, false arrest, perjury have shown up SO FAR and we’re supposed to not condemn the entire FPD?
A pattern is a pattern is a pattern.
If you havent signed this petetion yet, please do-Kelly Thomas Bill makes it illegal for a cop to do nothing while another cop is doing physical excessive harm to someone even if its in the event of a crime-http://www.petition2congress.com/4898/kelly-thomas-law/?m=2099044
IAN,
I have always welcomed opposing viewpoints from the start.
I like your style, 9c1.
BLESSUSALL,
Thank you for the kind words.
Ian is a follower. He follows Allen around. It’s cute because they hold hands, skip around, and live in a happy imaginary world. Toot-toot.
….proving my point
….proving MY point.
Touché, kind sir
You mean like Yogi and BooBoo?
A little ambiguous sexuality there!
Lol! Indeed! 😉
Sign this Kelly Thomas Bill petition
http://www.petition2congress.com/4898/kelly-thomas-law/?m=2099044
Signed.
I don’t know about you all, but I sure did love seeing that fat, murdering sack of FPD garbage in a cage!
Agree.
How long before he’s bailed out by the FPD defense fund. Ramos has too much garbage on the brass.
So what are they waiting for?
is there anything we can do for Ron Thomas? poor guy fears retaliation from someone connected with FPD-thats gotta be un nerving coupled with the murder of his child
Arm yourself and stand guard outside his house?
Merjoe as an ex deputy Thomas is well armed. Any problems, he ought to hire a bodyguard. He can afford it. The settlement will be well into: Ready for this? 8 figures. Figure that one out! This would be an excellent tax write off!
Allen,
Which police force are you a member?
I don’t believe all police officers are evil, whether in Fullerton or elsewhere. And yes, it is possible that one or more of the officers arriving later really didn’t have anything to do with this.
I think most, if not all, of the posters here would just like to hear directly from one of those officers. Perhaps a statement through the DA would do, but I guess it’s probably too late for that now?
I think part of the problem, Allen, is that the silence of that officer (those officers) is deafening.
I’m a public employee Allen, and I know I don’t like it when all public employees are labeled lazy, stupid, and just in it for the pension. And I also know that it’s difficult to speak out when one is employed by a public agency – those in charge do not like it. But I think in this situation it would have been a good idea for the innocent to have perhaps said something. And maybe if the innocent did try to say something, but weren’t allowed or advised to make it public, that will eventually come out.
In the mean time Allen I thank you for your service. I do appreciate the difficult work that police officers do.
I cannot name the PD for obvious reasons, but it is not FPD. Your comments make a lot of sense. It is very understandable why many would question why the police were silent – as it appears so.
I’ve been in law enforcement for more than 20 years and I can’t say that police departments never engaged in a coverup. There have been some over the years and it has given us a bad name.
But law enforcement in this state, and throughout this great country, are second to none.
In Fullertons case, current law, policies and procedures, have played a part in all of this Malay.
The Officers responsible will be held to answer – as they should be. The investigation behind this occurred exactly as it was supposed to.
Anyway I do appreciate your comments
“But law enforcement in this state, and throughout this great country, are second to none”
Let me fix that for you:
But law enforcement in this state, and throughout this great country, are second to none when it comes to police brutality it seems.”
Done.
Not sure what any of this has to do with the Malay but I’m sure you will elucidate for us.
Now that’s something that I’ll believe.
Well, I see him on the TV
Preachin’ ’bout the promise lands
He tells me believe in Jesus
Steals the money from my hands
Some say he was a good man
Lord, I think he sinned, yeah
Twenty-two years of mental tears
Cries a suicidal Vietnam vet
Who fought a losing war on a foreign shore
To find his country didn’t want him back
Their bullets took his best friend in Saigon
Our lawyers took his wife, his kids, no regrets
In a time I don’t remember
In a war he can’t forget
He cried, “Forgive me for what I’ve done there
‘Cause I never meant the things I did”
And give me something to believe in
If there’s a Lord above
And give me something to believe in
Oh, Lord arise
My best friend died a lonely man
In some Palm Springs hotel room
I got the call last Christmas Eve
And they told me the news
I tried all night not to break down and cry
As the tears rolled down my face
I felt so cold and empty
Like a lost soul out of place
And the mirror, mirror on the wall
See my smile, it fades again
And give me something to believe in
If there’s a Lord above
And give me something to believe in, yeah
Oh, Lord arise
Sometimes I wish to God I didn’t know now
The things I didn’t know then
Road you gotta take me home
I drive by the homeless sleeping on a cold dark street
Like bodies in an open grave
Underneath the broken old neon sign
That used to read Jesus saves
A mile away live the rich folks
And I see how they’re living it up
While the poor they eat from hand to mouth
The rich drinkin’ from a golden cup
And it just makes me wonder
Why so many lose and so few win
Give me something to believe in
Give me something to believe in
If there’s a Lord above
And give me something to believe in
Oh, Lord arise
And give me something to believe in
Oh, Lord arise
And give me something to believe in
Oh, Lord arise
And give me something to believe in
Oh, Lord arise
Yes, sometimes I wish I didn’t know now
The things I didn’t know then, yeah
And give me something to believe in, yeah
I’ve always complied with the police when I’ve been contacted and I’ve never been beaten or assaulted. Hmmmm….I wonder if there is something to that?
Pretty simple concept.
Lol
Well this is just silly. Now it looks like I am laughing at people for no good reason at all.
People who attempt to extrapolate trends from a case study of 1 are too stupid to reason with.
Snow Hume- I’d like to hear more of what you think about this case. You got me thinking about different aspects of the case that I hadn’t even looked at (the timing of everything, when the call for assistance took place, etc.) It’s easy to get caught up with murder charges that we lose focus of all the other details that make up the case. I believe Wolfe should be as guilty as the other two, I mean he was only 10 feet away from Ramos and Kelly. But you’re right, I’ve read your posts and something isn’t adding up.
don’ you?
Do you have schizophrenia, too?
Hmmm. I wonder if it’s still simple?
This ended up in the wrong area. Needs to go back up with bacon.
Hey, did you guys notice this interesting little discussion? Is it just me, or does it seem like Tony was trying to give us hints that maybe someone is trying to get information about everyone here? (You know, maybe someone from Fullerton or FPD?)
Hey, did you guys notice this interesting little discussion? Is it just me, or does it seem like Tony was trying to give us hints that maybe someone is trying to get information about everyone here? (You know, maybe someone from Fullerton or FPD?)
The norm is for someone to say something as fact here and then run with it. So I’ll try now.
I bet it’s Goodwrench. Yep. Get him. 🙂
Tony Rancaucus added me as freind on facebook which surprised me. I began to think that mabey it was a way of watching the newsfeed and identifying people.I alsow noticed a police sitting in their car before the protest staring me down for about a minute with his car pointed strait in my direction.
Reality Is: Your name hijacked again?
Yea. Over and over again everyday. 🙁
Why drop hints rather than speak your mind?
I’d love to see an idiot on here make such an assumption about me. I’ll bet my posting priveledges against theirs, even.
Fullerton residents rise up! In your self insured city, you are liable for the full amount of damages from the Fullerton PD. They will be huge! Now ask yourself why is Fullerton self insured? Simple! The premiums are too high to be insured. Insurance companies have looked at the city’s police department and decided its too big of a risk. City council members on recommendation from the city staff do not want a third party insurance company to investigate the rules and see if they are followed continuously. Thus the Police Chief Howdy Doody is sick, cough cough and his predecessor (ex police chief) is now going to have to actually run in this recall election and run on his record! Wow. Who but a downtown pub owner or barmaid or developer would vote for him now? Who knew the reason the ex police chief ran for city council was to cover up all the Fullerton PD screwups from personnel hired under his time as chief. The plot thickens. And you thought it was just another killing of some smelly homeless person!
I think they are in a pool of OC cities. The pool pays the claims. Makes it easier for cities to absorb the hits.
I think the bloggers, at least the majority of them, won’t accept an aquittal of the officers if it should happen. The bloggers have demonstrated their inability to accept a not guilty verdict from the justice system if it is not in their favor or their way of thinking.
DA Rack has contradicted himself many times. He is so lame. I hope he is the one who tries the case, then his aspirations to be the State’s Attorney General won’t look quite so promising.
SoT, you sound a lot like that idiot Jaynbond, any relation? Jus ask’n.
This is why you should be against all anti-gun laws. Think about it, do you think you could fend off the brutal attack of 6 armed roid raging morons with your bare hands?
I’ve seen plenty of videos on youtube of police roid raging. Want me to share them?
If these cops are threatening Ron Thomas it’s time to head to the gun store and get some protection from the crips with badges.
Stupid point. You think if Kelly had a gun, that would have helped? He would have ended up with holes in his body and head instead of gashes. Cops threatening Ron Thomas is the same as half the shit said on here, BS. Just another attempt to stir up some interest from the activists.
Yeah except for one subtle difference, the BS’ers on here don’t have state authority to abuse in backing up their threats.
We have state authority to abuse? Oh ok. 🙂
Who is paying for these animal cops legal defense? We the taxpayers?
Fullerton and Orange County paying everything for these “animal cops”. They are very very expensives and Fullerton facing many charges.
We have to thank Orange County District Attorney office, cop unions and Fullerton politicans because they threw out most of the criminal charges during the past 10 years…we pass saving to Fullerton citizens.
Does anyone have the specifics or story related to Mr.Thomas being targeted by the cops in his home town?
If the 4 remaining officers in this incident are still on administrative leave they will not be able to talk even if they wanted to. They have been ordered to keep quiet while the case is being investigated in the admistrative aspects.
Second the peer pressure from within must be beyond belief to stick together.
If the cops were acquitted they still face Federal Civil Rights violations. WHY do you think the FBI is investigating?
Kenny the Police union is paying for the defense of the cops, NOT the taxpayers. It is a system set up with all police agencies in the country. Many police agencies are part of bigger organizations. That have been around for decades.
The taxpayers are paying for the investigation of the criminal aspect and prosecution of the case. That too will be costly.
The settlement and cost to fight the civil suit will come out of taxpayer funds.
Where is the investigation guy city mgr hired? Why has all the adults seen the video and not us kids? i do have to say it was a good day seeing that rat bastard Ramos in a cage. Knowing Cyclopes is free on bail is unsettling. Knowing the 4 other contributors of murder are still free with pay is also very unsettling. The mums the word city council is just flat embarrassing. This next meeting should be interesting to say the least. Hopefully we will see all of you out there Sat. & every Sat. until “we the people” set this shit straight!
“Viva la Re-Call!” & Jutice for murder victims.
Thank you Ian. I’m sure you have seen admin’s posts throughout this site and I’m sure your impression is the same as mine. They can make any accusation they want and all the FPD haters will follow. Disagree with them and you better watch out.
Check in from time to time – I’ll be here.
Take Care
yep and so what are you going to do about it? We can say or think whatever we want.
more idiots wrapped up in a moron, Allen/Ian
Since almost no one ever answers your pleas for attenion, OK, Merijoe, I wil. Which one of the toothless were you at the open meeting?
WTF are you talking about?
Ian “duh. i made a poopie” commenter
It would surprise me in the least.
If it does happen – this site is going down and Tony Bushala with just slip away
Does anyone know what academies these 6 attended?
Police Academy V: The Wonder Years
I think Cincinelli is still an INCREDIBLE threat to society…
A very very sick man who should not have been given bail or at least set it as high as Ramos. From my understanding JAY WAS THE ACTUAL MURDERER.. Ramos is the one that started the fight.
I think you missed the whole part about bail not being a punishment.
what is with the comments of “This site is going down”? why would that matter if it did happen? why why why?
This site aint going anywhere and if it did , I would start another one so would 100 others, id.
People just trying to scare you off and make you paranoid. From the looks of the posts today, seems that everyone is shakin’ in their boots. Totally scared to death.
Pertaining to these people finding out who is on this site and harrassing them, I say bring it on. I welcome your best efforts.
Really???? Something must have happened to you during your career with LASO.
This is not a LE Conspiracy.. Come on now! you should know that!!
To answer your question Mr. Rocks, yes. It is happening to me. Not in the beating upon the head way, but in the intimidating way. if you want to hear my stories hit me up at the protest. I’m the one taking the pictures.
I’ve said it before. Everyone involved in the protests is more than likely on video, on photos, and identified. It’s called intelligence gathering. If this was to go bad at anytime, more than likely prior to the DA filing or no filing, then almost everyone involved up to this point is identified. If they do something criminal, they will be easy to find and already identified.
Oh yeah, right. There have been hundreds and hundreds of people at the protests. You want us to believe the Keystone cops up on Commonwealth know all our identities? I’m calling BS on that. Now, if you told me they had memorized the entire menu at IHOP, now that I’ll view as a possibility.
Ok you caught me. 🙂
Yum I love IHOP and know the menu well.
Eyeneversayno said:
“No crime was committed by anyone other than the officers who murdered Kelly Thomas. Period.”
That statement has yet to be proven by anybody and yet you are willing to peddle it as a certainty.
Interesting.
P.S. Cicinelli is not charged with murder so you got that wrong.
QUESTION: IS THERE ANOTHER REASON WHY THE FBI WILL NOT RELEASE THE TAPES OF THE ALLEGED “BEATING” OF KELLY THOMAS? DO THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE?
Kelly Thomas was nothing but a psychotic Criminal and retarded homeless bum who leeched off taxpayers and was a nuisannce to the community he lived. If you’ve lived in big cities you know the mentally ill have no place in our communities.
THE FACTS: Kelly Thomas had a violent criminal record
Kelly Thomas recieved SSI (homeless SSI bums are responsible for 1/3 of all crime in the US, 45% of crime in the state of CA. SSI and Social security. Are responsible for 2/3 of our national debt and 40% of unemployment due to higher taxes on business.)
Kelly Thomas was addicted to drugs and used his SSI to use marajuana and Crystal Meth
Kelly Thomas was arrested outside a Coffee Shop in Fullerton while panhandling and shouting derogatory curses at customers and passers by. When police arrived and questioned him, he was incohearant and beligerant and began attacking the cops who after tackling him to the ground took him to custody. He tested positive for Crack. Unfortunately he was released without being charged thanks to manipulation by Jew Communist attorneys who accused police of brutality.
Kelly Thomas was always beligerant towards police and When he was arrested he assaulted the cops with a Rusty nail and caused broken bones.
According to liberal media, Officer Cincenelli lost his from a shooting while working for the LAPD. A Lie. In fact, Kelly Thomas Gouged out Officer Cicinelli’s eye with his nail.
FREE THE FULLERTON SIX! BULLETS NOT HANDOUTS!
Well done. Thanks for the chuckles Brian!
🙂
Brilliant satire. Well played, sir!
Take a Valium, Dude.
“Jew Communist attorneys?” Are you marketing for White Power Supremacists?.
*Phew!*
a rusty nail -thats great, Cici got his eyeball gouged out by Kelly-another good one
Hey Jeffrey, rent a sense of humor
Sorry no can do.
Satire or not, it was completely inappropriate.
This is the trend I was talking about. Making blogs have identities. Would weed out all the anonymous posts by both sides and make for legitimate conversations. CNN video on the exact trend.
http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.html#/video/tech/2011/09/27/wian-web-roll-crackdown.cnn?iref=allsearch
You have to be a moron if you think people can’t register under a false identity online.
By the way, I’m Brian McDonald. I live in Costa Mesa with my wife and 4 children.
http://www.fakenamegenerator.com
Didn’t say it was completely foolproof. Facebook has identity verifiers that make it very legit. That’s what the major news blogs and other blogs are going to it. Browse em. The conversations are actually sane instead of name calling and threats.
Considering that facebook doesnt ask for a social security number, a drivers license number, tax id or a credit card. Verifying the identity of their users is impossible.
Nothing prevents me or anyone else from registering and re-registering multiple identities on facebook.
I have to ask and I mean this with all respect to the great, wonderful and highly honorable Dick Jones MD. Are you the Mayor of Fullerton?
You know what I mean. If this blog went to the Facebook log in, there would be 75% less posts. If you post a comment on here, it goes to the Facebook page. Cuss or make threats, your Facebook page is shut down and that ID is dead. Yes, you might be able to make another ID and do it all over again if you are that intent on doing that. Just saying it would clean up this blog, just like it has cleaned up the others.
No. If I was the Mayor of Fullerton I would have left the day all this happened.
Now that the M jackson is in the news I hope the DA don’t pull a fast one with the Kelly Thomas case.
He pulled a fast one when he filed a weak case full of holes also the case isnt expect to go to trial until a year from now.
A year from now this website will unattended and the witnesses to the murder will disappear along with the audio and video tapes I am not trying work people up or trying to be funny. The DAs takes his orders from the money men.
Of course they are monitoring and stalking the visitors to this site. Do you think the Fullerton cops are giving up the power and shakedown money they have in the city. It just a question of when these animals with the resources of the DAs office and their cavalier violence will deal with each and every one who criticizes their rackets in Fullerton.
lots of paranoia going on in here
Date and time stamp it! I agree with Allen!
Crack and meth addicts tend to be overly paranoid.
I have Garo Mardirossian on speed dial.
Sign this please
http://www.petition2congress.com/4898/kelly-thomas-law/?m=2099044
That’s actually not true at all. Take it to Facebook and I’d guarantee 75% MORE trolls. Facebook tried and failed. The trolls just pick right back up and make more profiles. It’s so easy that any of us could do it.
And, the page only gets shut down if someone reports it. You don’t even have to be cussing or threatening. Someone can report it just because they don’t like what your discussing, subject doesn’t matter.
I think I missed your first point as I am on mobile and it’s easy to scan right over too quickly. Just saying the blog is probably safest where it’s at, which is right here.
Yea that wasn’t what I said or meant. Not a Facebook page. Blogs for news orgs and other big blogs now make is where the only way to post is if you are logged into your Facebook account and your post shows that name and shows what you posted on your home page. It was on CNN last night too. Yea people can make Facebook names but the way they talked last night it’s not as easy to make madeup accounts.
I see what you are talking about. I’ve seen sites linked to FB like that. You can have more than one FB account and could log into whichever one you want.
Fullerton cops and politicans are Untouchable and Above the laws. These crooks never get a conviction for many reasons.
Wonder why only 2 cops was charged with lessen degree? Second Degree Murder ???? Sounds a whole lot like First Degree murder!
The trial will be in Orange County, California.
Powerful police union and city officials are right behind and protect their own kinds.
Prosecute by Orange County District Offices and corrupted justice system: snakes guarding hen house.
The politicians and crooks at the top could care less about actual justice. They’re only concerned with keeping their pensions, and only need a single scapegoat to do so.
Cop-killer (TD) is set to be executed. Will this killer-cops get the same treatment? Not likely.
Does Fullerton politics make you mentally ill or are they mentally ill to begin with?
The entire Fullerton police department and city officials should be prosecuted to full extend of the laws.
Yes, regarding the murder of Kelly Thomas, I want to vent-
The FPD6, those who cowardly stayed quietly “indifferent”, those who decided to “mind their own bidness” and all those up the food chain, are “all” nothing but scum sucking murdering, lying, thieving, jack boot thugs.
They pull this crap because what’s the worse that’s going to happen, paid leave while the incident is being investigated?
Investigated by who, more cops?
I’m really glad these cop crimes out there so the world can see what’s really happening.
Police work- the only job in America where you can legally murder someone, get away with anything and not just get paid for it, but promoted for it.
Of course they’ll call the beat to death victim, Kelly, combative, resisting arrest, on drugs, whatever, Even though this is clearly another murder by those sworn to protect and serve,
They serve and protect -themselves.
Why haven’t ALL these scum sucking murderers been arrested/charged? Well, there are many reasons:
The city doesn’t want to be held financially accountable; the pigs “were just doing their job”; the murdered victim caused his own death, they feared for their lives; and whatever else they come up with to cover their asses.
Oh yeah, How convenient-listen to me FBI, Im on a roll-they didnt have their DAR’s turned on.
I hope a decent God fearing judge and jury will be judging this case,
We are not going anywhere
LOL that was frickin hot MeriHoe. Straight white trash mud slingin. Yes! Let it out. Spit it. Make us proud! 🙂
RI- snap!
Anyone thought of what will happen when these guys are aquitted? I
Of course.
A celebration.
Write books do the talk show circuit and off to hollywood. DON’T THINK IT WON’T HAPPEN.
I don’t think they will be aquitted.
Looks like Officer Ramos is out of jail. I’m sure that will make everyone happy. Another injustice. Now it should have been no bail! 🙂