“Things Just Happen.” A Window Into The Cicinelli Defense Strategy
An “aggressive pedestrian?” What?!
Helpfully provided by some locker room lawyer calling himself “John, Jay’s Brother.”
Acting Chief Hamilton:
I am writing you today regarding the unfortunate but real-life issue, the Kelly Thomas incident, a regrettable part of police work as you well know. In most cases these things happen with no intent on the parts of the officers to cause any level of harm, let alone have a person die in their hands; things just happen. We’re not talking a Rodney King incident, or the shooting of an unarmed transient as in the Charles Hill case in San Francisco, but a wrestling match with a few blows thrown to subdue an aggressive pedestrian who was stopped for lawful reasons. In this case, it wasn’t the fighting that created the fatality, but positional asphyxia, something common to arrest incidents across the nation. You’ve seen the video, as have many leaders in your department, and you cannot argue that these officers went in and beat Thomas to death; your fellow leaders in the department have made their observations and opinions clear. The facts support all but the first two officers, with the only portion unknown and least defendable found within the first few minutes where they are behind the tree and invisible to the camera. From the point when Corporal Jay Cicinelli enters the scene, Thomas is pulled into full view of the camera and all are in view the remainder of the incident.
While the death of Thomas is regrettable, the actions of the police department and the city are much more reprehensible, starting with the inadequate chief who said nothing but drifted off into his protected stress leave, and a new city manager who sorely lacked the experience to capture and control this from the onset. Now, to have it left in the hands of the “unbiased” outside investigator has only exacerbated the problem as he bends to the political pressure brought on by the media and the accusing brothers whom themselves have suspect motives. You know well what I am talking about.
I am writing on behalf of Jay, though I’ve looked at Manual Ramos as well and find little fault in him concerning this death. Two officers do a pedestrian stop based on a call from a local pub. The stop is legal, as well as their motive to detain and arrest Thomas as a possible suspect for 459 PC, burglary. Thomas fails to comply, and the fight is on, with no less than two broadcasts placed for officers to respond code-3. With one officer out of shape, the fight is limited before Ramos spent his energy, and the second who remains on top of the subject is hurt. The third officer on scene knows nothing but that his partners are in a fight, need help, and experiences them exhausted, hot, sweaty, and breathless, in a struggle with a bare-chested suspect. He deploys the stun gun, dry first, and with the barbs second, but each having no effect. In-fact, the only result seems to come with an officer receiving the shocking transfer of the jolt through Thomas’ body, into that of Officer Hampton. What comes next is basic police work: A few knees by Officer Joseph Wolfe, as well as some punching to the face area. Jay struggles to maintain his stun gun as Kelly attempts to disarm him twice, followed by Jay swinging it around a few times, then a few (between 3 and 5) ineffective swings with the stun gun to hit Thomas and stop his actions. As you know, Jay and Manual are at the lower portion of Thomas’ body, not the chest area where the medical problem arose. After this, there is little that happens until they finally handcuff Thomas, and those who do, not Jay or Manual, leave him handcuffed and hogtied on his chest for several minutes. Do I have to point out to professionals that people die from this alone every year in the hands of police officers? So how then, do they so adamantly point the finger at Jay and Manual? I know why: political pressure.
I find it hard to believe that people, from “Chief” Sellers, to the city manager, to the politicians sitting on the city council, don’t have the wherewithal to stand up for the truth, and defend your officers who have sworn to keep and oath that threatens their lives every day. What I see is a series of cowardly decisions, made by people who are unwilling to do what is right, and defend these officers who were involved in a very unfortunate incident, and have been given up at Ron Thomas’ request, as “sacrificial lambs” if I remember the quote correctly. I believe strongly that everyone from the OC District Attorney to the politicians and their appointed investigator are getting this off their Teflon desks as fast as they can conceivably do, disregarding the low lying fruit within your department, because to them, this is a trivial matter and not worth the time to do the right thing. I believe that they are responding to the media when they assert that Jay has “mental issues” resulting from his LAPD shooting that caused the loss of his left eye. I understand that former Chief McKinley has already stated that in the media, that he wasn’t sure why Jay did these things, and that he was given the psychological evaluation before being hired, indicating that he buys into the mental status. From my records, my arbitral experience, and my legal experience with the EEOC, this would be called discrimination based on disabilities under ADA. Furthermore, the manner by which the city is treating these two officers is significantly different than their fellow officers who faced and currently face criminal charges, some of which are strong felonies, not wobblers. This is accurately described as disparate treatment, another cause of action that I strongly suggest be brought forward by these employees against not only the city, but those who are making the decision to suspend them without pay, thereby adversely impacting the lives of both officers and their families. And though they may deny these assertions, claiming some sort of sovereign immunity based upon their government status, the city, your agency and each person making such decisions are not immune from suits filed under the ADA, and are therefore subject to compensatory, special, future, and punitive damages. Finally, as it comes to the seven tests of just cause, the action taken to suspend these officers comes unfounded based on the lack of a full and complete, unbiased investigation, and the assertion of “rule violations” is most apparently contrived for the purposes of eliminating a political animal that rests heavily on the backs of every person listed above.
I pray that you will step in the gap for these officers, to make decisions that are not based on politics or public opinion, but on facts. And, if the facts are not there to support such negative actions, I strongly urge you to state this to those who are pushing you to make adverse decisions regarding these men and their families. There have been many men throughout history who have changed their course of direction for the right reasons, and have faced scrutiny for doing so. To change course in this case is the right decision, as you know deep down in your heart, and one that will come at a price. Is your future career at a heavily scrutinized department worth the futures of these officers and their families? Please understand that if the leaders above you, who push to get rid of these officers without proof, but based on the ugly pressures of public opinion, do not change their course of action against these officers, each action and decision will not go unanswered, and the legal and political issues they face now will only be exacerbated when these officers are cleared of their charges in court when their day comes.
Sincerely,
John
Jay’s Brother
What a crock of garbage this is!!
An idle mind can conjure fantasies as proven here. “Aggressive Pedestrian” is a new term to me. This statement screams “DESPERATION”. Unreal
So “Jay’s brother” was allowed to see the video that the public is not allowed to see?
It aways amazes me that people who go to the “it’s legal” argument don’t realize they’re admitting they don’t have a conscience. If you fell in love with a man years ago, and he turned out to be a frightening, violent psychopath, and he kept trying to excuse his behavior by saying, “Well, technically nothing I did was really against the law; and besides, baby, I’m just trying to keep you safe…” then what you have is still a frightening, violent psychopath. It’s just that he’s a frightening, violent psychopath with a law degree instead of a conscience.
?????
HOW was Jay’s “brother” able to see the video?? I suspect the video is digital in format and it was leaked via email.
I suspect Jay’s “brother” watched the video that day at the station then wrote and re-wrote a report based on what he say.
“Pedestrian” or “Ped” for short is police lingo like “Suspect”, “Subject”, “Actor” or “Perp” which makes me wonder about “John”. 😉
Someone found a book on how to use adjectives.
I suspect to the FPD, all Pedestrians can be described as “Aggressive Pedestrians”.
The FPD may just have to beat us all to death. A cops work is never done.
John,
Sorry, but your brother is a big boy and when he does wrong he needs to be punished more than ordinary members of society. He was the one who swore to protect us,
was supposed to protect us,
was supposed to protect those weaker than us,
was supposed to protect Kelly Thomas.
Tasering Kelly 6 times then beating him again and again with the taser gun is not defenseable or excusable. He’ll get his due process then go to prison.
You one the other hand are dispicable by trying to make out that his case has anything to do with the cases against other officers.
Aside from the fact that the FPD and city council is rotten to the core, the other cases have no relation to your brother’s case. Rotten apples are not rotten oranges. I will give you that they are all rotten.
If you want to help him, start saving money so he can buy off Bubba during his incarceration.
He was supposed to be better than the rest of us. All he as shown us is that we need to scrape him off the bottom of our shoes, put him away like he would put others away and forget him, giving him no more thought than he would give one of us.
He will be held to a higher standard and punished accordingly.
I live 450 miles away from Fullerton, but I will be there for the trial. I will take time off from my work and life, and I will be there every G*ddamn day to see justice done!
AMEN JEFFERY GOD BLESS YOU!!
Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but these FPD officers will never be punished by the justice system. If they are to be punished in this life, it will have to be vigilante style.
The fix is in regarding the upcoming Fullerton Police murder trials for killing Kelly Thomas.
Unfortunately, the powers that be appear to have conspired with the POLICE UNION to protect these police officers and the police union.
Let us review the facts and I believe that you will tend to agree with me.
THE MURDER
1. It appears the call from a local BAR owner was faked to give the FPD a reason to arrest Kelly. Thus, even the initial stated reason for approaching this “aggressive pedestrian”” is suspect. Side note: If so, the citizens of Fullerton should see to it that this BAR is closed – one way or another.
2. Six FPD officers took part in the murder; apparently two took a bigger part than the other four.
3. Ramos punched Kelly several times in the ribs, tackled Kelly and used his hands to hold Kelly’s NECK and used his body weight to hold Kelly down.
4. Wolfe, who was not charged, also punched Kelly 3 or 4 times, kneed him in the head, and used his body weight to hold Kelly down.
5. Cincinelli arrived and kneed Kelly twice in the head, used his Taser 4 times to shock Kelly, and used the front of the Taser like a club to hit Kelly in the FACE 8 times while Kelly was pinned to the ground and could not move or protect himself; Notably, Kelly did not respond to the clubbing by Cincinelli but that did not stop these animals.
6. A growing pool of blood did not stop the beating.
CAUSE OF DEATH
7. Yet, the official cause of death, according to the corner, is “mechanical compression of the thorax making it impossible to breath normally”; Really !!!! Interesting as will be discussed below.
8. In contrast, the UIC Documents stated that Kelly Thomas died of Blunt Force Trauma to the head (“brain death” due to “head trauma” due to “Assault”). MRI demonstrated diffused supratentorial gray matter infarction consistent with diffused anoxic brain injury.
9. Notably, diffused anoxic injury can be caused by either breathing problems (corner’s selection) or brain acceleration (UIC Documents – from Dr. who treated Kelly). (Note: diffused anoxic brain injury is usually by vehicular accident but can also be caused by head trauma from a beating). This is important as I believe the powers that been in this case have manipulated the selection of the “cause of death” for reasons described below.
THE POLICE REPORTS – Culture of Corruption
10. The Police were allowed watched a video of the incident to craft their reports; reports that had to be rewritten several times even after the video was used. This made sure the reports were consistent with each other.
11. There is apparently a culture of corruption at the FPD including police officers that have been described/be charged as pickpockets, thieves, sexual predators, kidnappers, thugs, and murderers . . . all hired by former Fullerton Police Chief and now city council member Pat McKinley.
A: Albert Rincon – allowed to serially sexually assault women in the back of his patrol car. Actions known to FPD management but nothing was done.
B: FPD police officer — sentenced to jail for fraud to support his pill habit.
C: FPD police officer — arrested in Miami airport for iPad theft.
D: FPD police officer — who smashed recording device on jail wall to avoid complicity in jail suicide.
E: FPD police officers — beating up and falsely arresting Veth Mam.
F: FPD police officers — lying on the witness stand about Veth Mam.
G: FPD police officer — beating up and falsely arresting Edward Quinonez.
H: FPD police officer — sexually assaulting a dozen women in the backseat of his patrol car, with recording device turned off.
I: FPD police officers — issuing traffic citations to harass protesters.
J: FPD police officers — ambushing and murdering a helpless homeless man.
K: FPD police officers — turning off recording devices during murder.
L: FPD police officers — colluding to falsify reports about said murder.
M: FPD superior officers — coaching said falsification and returning to street of said miscreants.
N: FPD police officer — spokeshole deliberately issuing lies to the media to misdirect, temporize, stall and otherwise obscure said murder and cover up.
O) FPD police officer — arrests Emmanuel Martinez by mistake (or on purpose) and he spends 5 months in jail. (why did the FPD and union thugs not help his aggressive pedestrian make bail?)
As for City Leaders – councilmembers insulting protesters as “lynch-type mob”; councilmembers discounting injuries of murder victim.
12. The FPD appears to be run by UNION THUGS, as seems apparent when several Kelly Thomas protestors (aggressive driver) were ticked (by a head union thug) for blowing their car horn in support of Kelly Thomas.
13. While the DA’s job is to protect the people (aka aggressive pedestrians when walking) by prosecuting criminals, in the Kelly Thomas case, the DA has been described as being on the side of the police, who are the criminals in this case, not the people. The DA has even been described as engaging in preemptive surrender before the investigation is complete.
14. Even with help from the video tape to “get their story straight”, the FPD story is a shifting story that appears to be morph as needed to fit the facts of the moment.
TIME LINE
15. Kelly Thomas, an unarmed 150 lb aggressive pedestrian sitting on a bench, was beat to death by 6 FPD police officers on July 5, 2011; apparently with all their combined bulk, mussels and weapons, they just could not seem to get Kelly under control without beating him to death.
16. While the Orange Count DA started his investigation on July 7, 2011, no serious actions were noted until after a large protest outside the FPD on July 18, 2011 and after July 30, 2011 when the FBI started its investigation.
17. At some point between July 10, 2011 and July 30, 2011, Fullerton City tried to settle the case for $900,000, most likely financed by the UNIONS, to keep this incident under the rug, so to speak and probably to keep the FBI out of their files.
18. On August 2, 2011 the Fullerton City Council meeting was held that discussed the Kelly Thomas case. Just hours before this meeting, Five (5) of the six officers were FINALLY placed on paid leave (one officer was already on leave for a different reason) but only after the FPD and City Council realized that this case was not going away, Kelley’s father could not be bought off, and the FBI were going to investigate.
19. This timeline, coupled with the shifting story of the FPD, coupled with the documented culture of corruption of the FPD and the Fullerton City Council, the demonstrated policy of fraudulently creating police reports using videotape and rewriting to make such reports consistent, coupled with the attempt to bribe Kelly Thomas’s father to hide the Kelly Thomas case, I have little trouble concluding that the FPD, some Fullerton City Council members and the Police Union (aka “union thugs”) have NO HONOR and will do whatever it takes to see that these police officers are found innocent.
THE CHARGES
20. Ramos has been charged with one felony count of second degree murder, one felony count of involuntary manslaughter;
21. Jay Cicinelli one felony count of involuntary manslaughter and one felony count of the use of excessive force;
PARRALLELS to ISAIAH SIMMONS CASE
http://juvienation.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/charges-dismissed-in-isaiah-simmons-case/
22. Isaiah Simmons, a 17-year-old convicted of armed robbery, died at the Baltimore-area Bowling Brook Preparatory School, a privately run residential program for juvenile offenders. Following an outburst that day, Simmons was set upon by a group of counselors, who, according to the Baltimore Sun, “pinned him face down to the ground, restraining him for about three hours.” After Simmons lost consciousness, the guards waited forty-one minutes before calling 911;
23. The school was shut down in March, the death was ruled a homicide; On January 29, 2008, Carroll Court Circuit Judge Michael Galloway dismissed the last of the charges of reckless endangerment that had been filed against the counselors in the Simmons case.
24. Bowling Brook administrator Brian Hayden said in a prepared statement, “With this dismissal, Judge Galloway affirms that these gentlemen had nothing but the utmost concern for the safety and welfare of Isaiah, and they reacted as quickly and effectively as possible in an effort to avoid this tragedy.”
24b. Simmons’s mother, Felicia Wilson, said she was “devastated and outraged” that charges against the counselors were dismissed. “I have no faith in the Carroll County justice system,” she said. “I’m not going to stop fighting for justice for my son.” Wilson has called for federal charges, and prosecutors plan to file an appeal.
25. Kelly Thomas supports and the citizens of Fullerton should get ready for their “outrage” when these cops are set free.
26. Side note: Don’t think that police officers are not aware of this phenomenon where suspects die when the suspect’s chests are compressed for long periods of time. Thus, if you want to kill a suspect in an apparently nonviolent way, a way that is difficult to prove was murder, simply apply sufficient pressure to the suspect’s back until he becomes comatose (as was done in the Kelley Thomas case if one believes the corner’s reported cause of death). When you hear the suspect cry out that he can breathe, you know you’re getting the pressure right, and simply hold it for sufficient amount time.
THE TRIAL
The trial will likely be a choreographed scam. I would not even be surprised if the DA and the defense team for the police officers (financed by the union thugs) get together and meticulously choreograph what case law will be presented, the best rebuttals to the case law, and the theatrics that will be used during the trial.
As I see it now, the State’s case depends on whether or not the DA can convince a jury that Ramos was committing a crime during the arrest. If so, the murder charge should stick as it does not matter if the death was an accident or completely the fault of Ramos as a death results from a criminal act committed by Ramos.
In contrast, if the jury does not believe that Ramos was committing a crime during the arrest, then the cause of death becomes critical.
This is where the coroner’s report becomes important as it differs in a material way from the UIC Documents. The coroner’s report puts the cause of death as: “mechanical compression of the thorax making it impossible to breathe normally”. The UIC Documents stated that Kelly Thomas died of Blunt Force Trauma to the head (“brain death” due to “head trauma” due to “Assault”). MRI demonstrated diffused supratentorial gray matter infarction consistent with diffused anoxic brain injury.
Diffused anoxic brain injury is consistent with the conclusions of both the coroner and the UIC documents. The difference: if the UIC documents are correct, then Ramos and Cicinelli are guilty of murder as they clearly caused all the head trauma (although Wolfe did to one knee to the head). If the corner is correct, pressure on Kelly’s back cause the death; a cause that cannot be attributed to Ramos alone beyond a reasonable doubt. The corner, DA, union thugs, Fullerton City Council and FPD really had to get together to figure this path out which is why it took so long for the coroner’s report to be made public.
In the end, the trial will be a choreographed circus and the cops will go free because the selected cause of death could not be attributed to Ramos and Cicinelli, there will be outrage among Kelly Thomas supporters, and the Union thugs will get richer off the tax pay money.
If there is to be justice in in Fullerton, it is going to have to come from the people.
Thanks for the summation.
Simmons, you didn’t say anything that hasn’t already been said in this stupid blog, you just repeated it all and wastes everyones time! You apparently don’t have a job or a life! Just another fff’n idiot!
I took this information from many sources, many from this website; yet such information is not all in one place.
Would be nice for this site to make a “Kelley Thomas” Time line with all the information and documents known to date so that it is easier to follow what happend, what is happening, and what the future is likekly to bring.
Excellent post Simmons.
“…This is important as I believe the powers that been in this case have manipulated the selection of the “cause of death” for reasons described below.”
It must be emphasized that this is a very important observation.
A variation in the cause of death between Coroner and UCI. The UCI C.O.D. appears to be scientifically accurate, and also would seem more accurate given all the official evidence that has become public.
+1 Simmons, great post.
If the OCDA is the least bit competent, he has already deposed the paramedics, nurses, and doctors who attended to Kelly for the short duration of his life after the beating. Having them describe the injuries sustained by Kelly Thomas in succinct layman’s terms to a jury is pretty much a slam dunk conviction. But then again, it is Orange County…most reputable for unintelligent juries.
On a personal note, I would like to say to Manuel Ramos that I’m sorry.
Yes, I’m sorry that you consumed maximum portions and went about your professional and personal life with minimal effort. And by that, I mean physically and cerebrally.
I’m sorry that you were stupid enough to believe that a 664 hour class, a badge, and a gun gave you carte blanche to use deadly force whenever you felt like it. Again, I am sorry, but your hatred of sit-ups, crunches and any other exercise of cardiovascular endurance does not mean that you shoot every jaywalker you see. Which brings me to my next apology.
I’m sorry for your Father. For not teaching you a work ethic for one, but also for not teaching you any morality. Putting on the gloves and saying what you said was not your idea (I can tell that you’re far removed from original and I see many like you day to day), it was learned somewhere…and I sincerely doubt it was Cop School.
I wonder what the tape will show?
Just what the DA said it showed; a horrific beating.
I expect a lot more of this garbage to come out before, and during, the trial.
Hi Jay and John Cincinelli!
Jay I know you’re very active on the internet and was very active on youtube before you deleted your account. We’d love to read your side of the story.
This brought up here not in the media. Ooops? 🙂
I’m dumbfounded after reading that
You could not have said it better. How about protesting in front of Ramos and cicinelli’s house?
Go for it! Tomorrow, please come…
I wouldn’t suggest that. Actually I oppose that.
Didn’t someone mention a few weeks back something to the effect: “Do not punish the son for the sins of the father.” (O.K. it’s a religous quote, but appropriate in this secular matter.)
Family and children of the officers are not the officers. They did not do the crime, but now have to live with it as a huge part of their lives from now on.
Leave the innocents alone. They’ll be punished enough in their forthcoming lives as it is just by being related to the officers. They’ll have plenty of pain.
Don’t give them any more. Being related to the officers will be bad enough.
The family members have my sympathy.
Agree.
actually the bible says that the son WILL be punished
That is the reason I went secular as opposed to sacred.
The G*d of the Jews is a vengful G*d.
Thats in the bible as well.
I’d still go with secular. If we went an eye for an eye,……………I’ll leave to others to finish the jokes. (-;
Hey Jays Brother….Ur Brother is a sick Murdering Mother Fucker and should really be convicted and sentenced to DEATH… Mr. Thomas while defenseless…was hit by that PIG FUCK 8 times in the head with a TASER….He’s a BULLY that needs to die of Lethal Injection….that one eyed pig fuck……This is going to get National Attention and his face will be plastered all over Killer Cop Web-sites and Bill Boards.
Told you. More to the story. This is NOT over!
You’re right about that. Feds haven’t even moved in yet.
FBI, FBI, FBI… OHH YEAH!
Hey Orion you retarded ass, how do you know that piece of shit transient was hit 8 times???you have to f’n clue as to what you ate talking about! Do everyone a favor and keep you stupid pointless worthless comments to your self!
He doesn’t know. He’s speculating just like everyone else.
We’ll all be able to count for ourselves when the video is released.
Be very happy to give you an accurate “Beating Kelly To Death” count at that time.
Also, your comment was about as helpful as the ones you rant and rail against. Say what you will, and I’ll just offer my opinions. (-:
ANSWER: No, I don’t really care who you are since the only thing you seem to be interested in is rabble rousing and browbeating anyone who you take a dislike to, but you are entitled to your opinion. I, also, am entitled not to read them if I don’t want to. (-:
What’s he bitching about? His brother got a slap on the wrist charge.
This shows you what type of people/characters we have in LE now aday. Sickening
Hampton got a transferred shock?
Too little, too late.
what the hell is that? if its what i think it is, gooooood, too bad he didnt get more of the same
If this really is Cicinneli’s brother it’s very clear that Cicinelli (who has seen the video we are not permitted to see) is actually passing along this message.
Hi Jay, you warped bastard.
Maybe by “brother” he means fellow law enforcement officer.
“John” = John Barnett is his… err I mean his brother’s defense lawyer.
“Brother” = The law enforcement brotherhood.
“Cicinelli” = Duhh me want wear badge!
I suspect jay isn’t working with a full deck which is why they initially assigned him to non-patrol duty like K9 and Surveillance.
That letter gives great insight into what was driving around the streets of Fullerton for the past 12 years.
Thanks Mike Hillman and Pat McKinley!
You know what else was driving around the streets of Fullerton for the past 12 years?
One eye.
Close your left eye for 30 seconds while driving, it’ll blow your mind.
hey yeah,blessusall, you may have something there
Blessusall- he doesnt sign off with a last name does he?
Ramo’s should have got involuntary manslaughter and “One Eye” Murder in the first Degree!!!!!
You got this wrong. Youll see. Lol.
That pinata, Ramos got exactly what he should have gotten, too bad CiCi was only hit with invol manslaughter, he deseved much more
LOL – This guy thinks we’re Stupid – doesn’t he?
Regarding this letter…
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
” After this, there is little that happens until they finally handcuff Thomas, and those who do, not Jay or Manual, leave him handcuffed and hogtied on his chest for several minutes. Do I have to point out to professionals that people die from this alone every year in the hands of police officers?”
Then how about you morons stop doing that?
“disregarding the low lying fruit within your department”
Uh…. you’re saying that there is fruit more low-lying than what we’ve already seen?!
i agree, theres ALOT more to come out of this…
sadly
there is no more to the story…those mentally deficient boobs are hurrying to cover their asses by making shit up thats all-what do you think will come out – that kelly was weilding a knife and threatening these poor cops who were innocently trying to do their jobs? maybe it will come out that Kelly was exposing his penis and peeing on those sweet coppers who were only trying to keep everyone safe.
Anyone who believes the rambling nonsense of an obvious biased family member of a murderer has a chip missing and some therapy or incarceration should be considered.
I don’t understand why the hell these two asshole cops are out on Bail…tracking devices or Ramo’s or not….they should be in Jail..(all six of them)..just like O.J. Simpson and any other suspect with that much evidence..already compiled..It’s all corrupt from the top down…this really needs to be investigated by the Justice Department in D.C.
NO SHIT SO START EMAILING THEM LIKE I HAVE HELLO!!!
I believe I have stumbled upon the secret codex which contains all the counter-evidence that “John” and “Outraged” refer to. There may indeed be more to the story. Any amateur cryptologists out there who can figure it out?
http://www.tractiphy.com/fullerton-police-beating
“they accomplish circadian sacrifices”
Isn’t that some kind of insect?
“Circadian” derived from the word “circle,” and refers to your body’s rhythm of waking and sleeping in synchronization with the sun rising and setting….
This letter from John, Jay’s brother, makes me sick to my stomach!!! I have lived here all my life, and for the first time ever, do I fear for my safety and the safety of my children and grandchildren that live her. This letter is SICK!
I refused to read the rest of this garbage. Talk about delusional. Thats right a pedestrian issue called from a local pub. And to say Thomas was resisting when Ramos blatantly states “these are the hands that are going to fuck you up” malarky. And that his “brother” was there to assist is correct – he was assisting another officer in A FATAL BEATING.
AND OF COURSE THIS ISN’T A “RODNEY KING”…KING SURVIVED.
So, protest tomorrow?
I don’t see why not. Its a peaceful protest, its legal and its your right.
Ron’s opinions about fullerton and protesters doesnt change that. We live in fullerton and we have to face the police department everyday unlike him.
The biggest mistake is letting up and just going away. This is what they’ve always wanted us to do but we kept going and look at what we’ve been able to accomplish.
I could not agree more.
Justice for Kelly…..
AMEN AND AMEN
I don’t know about Jay but that letter tells me his brother John Cincinelli is mentally unfit to work at McDonald’s let alone walk around with a gun and badge.
Can you imagine what John’s reports might have looked like …if he had been a cop. They’d probably have to rewrite it a dozen times or write it for him and can you imagine him encountering someone who he might have thought was resisting, he’d probably go into full retard rage and smash the guy’s face in.
Well, thank goodness Pat McKinley didnt let this mentally handicap man join the police force.
Goodrich has been speaking to the ocweekly saying that the numbers have been rapidly dwindling at the protests. Better to keep them off guard and strike at strategic times instead of protest non stop till we wear ourselves down. I’m sticking with Rons strategy. A break will help us regroup.They already know our routine. Lets throw them a curve ball.lets Try sompthing a little different.
Yes lets silently walk around at night holding candles. That’ll show em!
Ron really threw them a bone when he made that announcement.
What a smug jackass …Goodrich is.
Wait..how did he see the video? That’s fishy.
How do you know he saw the video? Did you see the video? That’s fishy.
“Jay’s brother” makes comments regarding to the video. Did you not read this letter idiot? He makes comments about what the video shows and what it doesn’t show. How would he be able to make such comments if he did not see the video.
I thought only a selected few were able to see the video.
uhhh, der, because he said he did. doy doy
You are all so blinded . You live in a fantasy land of buzzwords and protests full of empty gestures and crappy cardboard signs. Your false pride and weak indignation don’t even deserve a response.
“Protests are dwindling” because a new TV season has started and new video games are out, not to mention the travesty and indignation of the “MJ murder” trial. Once you reach the crescendo of your profane rebuttals, your ignorance will burn out and you will fade away.
Tell it like it really is Mike!! Thank You! I couldn’t have said it better!
No, you probably could not have.
Mike I had no idea anything was on television on Saturdays between 9am and 3pm. You mean to tell me a new season of California Dreams is on?
I guess I’ll stay home then.
“Ugly pressures of public opinion”. Yup its the civil attorney hired by Cyclops to protect his rights under ERISA and the ADA. He did neglect to say that a one eye cop cannot pass the physical and should not be hired. A long winded epistle lacking in facts by leaving out certain facts. Poor Jay cyclops got no pay coming so he gonna sue.
I have a saying. NO WORK< NO PAY!
There are about 50 cops with one eye in the state of CA, you ignorant fools.
Where? In prison?
IN THE BROM HOLE THAT IN THE BACK MAC!!
Then they need to be weeded out, pronto.
Cicinelli also appears to have severe anger management issues. Hopefully the prison shrink can work on that.
TIGERMANLSU please stop, you’re becoming a real nuisance. At the very least when you’re going to post, calm down first and type out your messages.
Just stop filling this blog posts like this, its disruptive.
Anonymous-leave commentators alone-1st amendment and no one bothers you
YEAH YOU FUCK ASS HOE BITCHES. GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE! 1ST AMENDMENT IS HERE TO STAY. DONT LIKE IT? SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GO AWAY.
FUCK EM!
Cicinelli appears to be especially brutal and sadistically cruel.
How many were HIRED with one eye?
You see, there are soldiers and Marines that have one arm or leg also in the active ranks, however, none of them are on combat duty and none were missing a limb when they enlisted.
Had our one eyed officer been assigned to traffic investigation or a desk job the risk would not have been present.
If LA wanted him they should have kept him. To bring him aboard was negligence and for him to take a full pension w/ 50% tax free for supposedly being too disabled to perform police work says it all.
In patrol positions? I’m sure they’re at a desk. Nice try. Are you outraged from losing?
Can you back this statement up? I would like to know if this is true or not.
we should check out these dudes too-I bet they are just stellar patrol cops who drive cars and help beat people to death for nothing too
oh yeah, you ignorant fool
LA Times article on Jay Cincinelli………..(POST requirements)
But perhaps his most courageous moment was when he fought for the opportunity to continue to serve as a field certified Police Officer, despite his medical limitations. It was ultimately determined that because of his injuries, Cicinelli no longer met the minimum standards of a peace officer as set forth by California Peace Officers Standards and Training (POST). One of the key principles cited by POST was that peripheral vision is one of the most important visual abilities for safe patrol officer performance.
Although it pained the Department to conclude that Cicinelli could no longer serve as a patrol officer, it was an obvious and necessary decision to ensure the safety of all Los Angeles Police Officers and residents alike. In addition, Rule 5.26 of the Rules of the Board of Civil Service Commissioners does not permit a Police Officer to complete probation when in a restricted duty capacity.
add to #41
Nah! Jay’s brother had a lot of help with that letter from disability attorneys. What a pile of hogwash! Good point presented here is how did John Cyclops get to see the video tape?
anyone defending these murdering cops has blood on their hands too. Those two pig fuckers deserve to die by blunt force trauma to the head. How about letting citizens pay to take turns beating these fools in the face until they are just as dead as kelly thomas. I want to be first in line.
the defendants would be allowed a copy of any evidence against them. they will leak it (edited) so they can cry for a change of venue and claim jury contamination and attempt to de-sensitize the public soon
Let’s not hold police accountable for their actions, but lay the blame on the victim instead.
Makes me fucking sick to my stomach.
“Ugly pressures of public opinion..”
Jesus, this guy is certifiable!
So, what’s he really talking about here?
Does he really think that police should be allowed to operate with impunity, regardless of public opinion?
If Kelly Thomas had lived following this instance of brutality the officers would still be guilty of crimes. The brutality itself was criminal.
To all readers of this post:
Please note the following critical passage in the supposed brother’s letter — “After this, there is little that happens until they finally handcuff Thomas, and those who do, not Jay or Manual, leave him handcuffed and hogtied on his chest for several minutes. Do I have to point out to professionals that people die from this alone every year in the hands of police officers? So how then, do they so adamantly point the finger at Jay and Manual? I know why: political pressure. ”
I would very much like to know if this brother “John” himself is in law enforcement, or if not, perhaps he can supply references about deaths from asphyxiation due to hog-tying. If what he says is accurate, then we have yet more evidence that the DA knows of “excessive force” conducted by other officers, and has not charged them. Whether they knew that the arrest was illegal is irrelevant, if they used excessive, especially lethal, force.
John’s information tends to back up my theory that Officers Ramos and Cicinelli were not aware of the Master Plan, and were simply set up to take the fall for a prior-planned attack on Kelly Thomas. The truth will not come out, if these other officers are not charged. Apparently, that is how the DA’s Office wants it.
WSH
Good point.
Good thinking, Snow.
Note how we are always told by police officials and the DA’s office that incidents are reviewed professionally and with no regard to political pressure. But in the odd times when a charge is brought, all of the sudden the police themselves start crying about the political pressure.
Here, the officers involved are pointing fingers at each other (as one retired officer told me would be the case in the end).
Quote: Mississippi Burning
“The rattlesnakes are beginning to commit suicide.”
AND
“All human interactions are political.”, So what’s the point? The police are going to try and cover their individual asses? (-:
That just means they are not worth a shit by half
Cicinnelli name is SHIT!
YES HIS NAME IS SHIT, SHITFACE MURDERER.
“John” is probably John Barnett, the lawyer working for Ramos.
John Barnett is a smart and successful lawyer I doubt it was him. Whoever wrote this letter seems to be a little brain damaged and seems to know a lot of details that only someone who was actually there would know.
Once you really start to put the pieces together you’ll easily figure out who “John” is. Here is a clue …”Scott Summers” and “Turanga Leela”.
Johnnnny! Jayyyyyyyyy! come out and play!
……No badge, no gun, Cicinelli on the run.
YES IT,S ABOUT TIME,NO MONEY,NO GUN,NO BADGE. JUST BUBBA LOVEING LONG TIME. HAHAHHAAHA!!!!!
C’mon Jay, no more toes in the sand in Newport Beach?
NO MORE SAND FOR J JUST BUBBA LOVEING HAHAHAAHA!!!!!
These bums will walk away with the blessing of the DA and his masters. Only hope Fullerton citizens have is that all the animals take early disability pensions and move onto other security jobs in some distant commmunity and enjoy the good life that the taxpayers of Fullerton will pay for decades to come. Oh! Let’s not forget the enormous settlements we will endure.
ALL FINANCIAL SETTLEMENTS CREATED BY CORRUPT COPS AND THEIR SEEDY FRIENDS ON THE CITY COUNCIL WHO BEEF UP THEIR PENSION PACKAGES SHOULD BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE POLICE AND CITY COUNCIL PENSION FUNDS.
The tape will be inadmissable. The DA has to give his bosses something.
57 INADMISSABLE YOUR BIG ASS HOLE. YOU WISH,
Tic, tok, Jay & Johnny….
I LOVE IT PIGIES ARE GUNA GO HUNGRY SOON,THANKS ORION YOU GOT IT RIGHT!!! MAYBE WE CAN THRO A BITCH A BONE AFTER THAY LOCK-UP THE MURDER.S A BIG BIG BONE HAHAAHAHA!!
i love your enthusiasm but we all know piggie will be in protective custody with the other snitches and bitches. then he will probably get DOUBLE good time like Mehserle.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/
The paychecks for two Fullerton police officers charged in the death of a mentally ill homeless man will be cut off beginning Saturday.
Apologies here’s the correct link
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/10/kelly-thomas-case-fullerton-officers-paychecks-cut-off.html
I highly vouch for this officer to fill one of the openings on the Foolerton police dept. Soon the psychos in blue will be exiting on disability.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/10/a-former-los-angeles-county-sheriffs-deputy-whowas-accused-of-attacking-a-woman-during-a-may-2008-traffic-stopwas-convicted-t.html
GOOD A NOTHER PIG IN THE PEN ON DEC.9
I second the choice.
I was told that i will get all this retroactive when this case is made to go away. In the meantime the FPD union is taking care of me.
I hope a Pitchess hearing is conducted against these two. I would like to see how many people they abused. These names can be brought out of their file with a Peter Pitchess hearing! A P.I. can then interview these people and discover moral turpitude!
the second sentence incriminates cicinelli and ramos “In most cases these things happen with no intent on the parts of the officers to cause any level of harm, let alone have a person die in their hands; things just happen”
Video and audio reveals ramos intentionally acting out of the scope of a police officer when he sadistically forces Kelly thomas to perform bizarre and impossible positions, then ramos puts on his latex gloves to prevent Kelly’s body fluids from contaminating him when he beats him and says , and I paraphrase, these are the fists that are going to f*** you up. Ramos methodically planned to escalate Kelly into a confrontation. Kelly knew this and ran from Ramos in order to protect his life. John Jay, intentionally or from ignorance , is trying to imply Ramos was the proximate cause and not the direct cause death of Kelly’s death. without cause, Ramos begins to brutally beat Thomas. Cicinelli soon joins in with Ramos and together these two police officers beat a man to death.
If a person fails to see a stop sign and smashes into the side of a car killing the driver, then this is unintentional because the person who ran the stop sign never intended to kill the other driver. Making a homeless, disabled scrawny man sit down in front of you while you stand over him , put on latex gloves to protect yourself from the homeless man’s blood, while telling him you are going to beat on him and then the homeless man dies from this beating is not something that just happened, it is premeditated murder.
He got this right:
“a new city manager who sorely lacked the experience to capture and control this from the onset.”
However I’m not real clear on what more the poor dufus Felz could have done to protect the cops – after all he turned the city over to McKinley and his spokesooze Goodblimp.
HE SOUNDS VERY INTERESTING TO SHARE A CELL WITH.
This guy is the text book definition of delusional. Things happen??????? WTF? Remember that statement when justice IS done. Oh, ok. Just because you call it “positional asphyxia” makes it OK. First of all that is whitewashing at its finest. Secondly, as a lay person I’ve heard for years about hog-tied deaths and KNOW it’s something cops are taught not to do. But that doesn’t matter anyway. That wasn’t how it happened. Clearly, this guy knows more than the average person about the “incident”(Uh….MURDER).
“What comes next is basic police work”. Boy oh boy you sure said a mouthful. Are you fucking kidding me. “a few knees, a punch to the face area”, followed by tasing, etc., etc., etc., Basic police work, hih. Therein lies the problem.
“your agency and each person making such decisions are not immune from suits filed under the ADA, and are therefore subject to compensatory, special, future, and punitive damages.” Is this some kind of pussy threat? Laughable. Go get’em.
“but those who are making the decision to suspend them without pay, thereby adversely impacting the lives of both officers and their families”. How enlightening. We have it all wrong. The sympathy should clearly go to the MURDERERS and THEIR families.
So…”things happen”. Prepare yourselves.
hey john,
your brother is a murdering goon. i’m against the death penalty, but he deserves it.
California doesnt need the death penalty its got FPD and other cops, who were given unlimited right to use deadly force without consequence
Jay will probably never spend more than 2 years behind bars….he will probably take a plea agreement and do his lil bit of time…Ramos probably wont see no more than 6 years behind bars as well….The D.A. is playing this down the middle trying to satisfy both sides it looks like….the reason Wolfe and Hampton aren’t being charged is beyond me…. from everything i read 4/6 should be on their way to jail…I truely feel sorry for the people of OC, they deserve better…This DA is playing everyone a fool…who knows, he can pressure his prosecuting attorney to sit on their hands and let these guys off the hook…but i dont think he will…T-rack is smart enough to know not to poke a hornets nest….the public would forever hate him if either of these guys simply walk.
“…the ‘Blue Code of Silence’ is a normative injunction, but an unwritten one. Sometimes called a blue wall, curtain, or cocoon of silence, it is embedded in police subculture. At its best, the feelings of loyalty and brotherhood sustaining the ‘Code of Silence’ may facilitate policing and protect police against genuine threats to safety and well being. Yet the same code of loyalty and brotherhood can, as a ‘Code of Silence,’ sustain an oppositional criminal subculture protecting the interests of police who violate the criminal law.” (301)
“…a ‘Code of Silence’ is found in investigations of police corruption across three continents…the Code is an embedded feature of police culture generally.” (301)
“…both corruption and the Code…are entwined in certain characteristics of police culture and organization that facilitate and sustain it….I shall try to develop a theoretical argument, linking (1) the narrow world of values, understandings, and conceptions of loyalty in the culture of policing to (2) the Code of Silence, as (3) a key facilitator of police corruption and violence.” (302).
“The notion of loyalty to fellow officers is first encountered by police officers in their Police Academies, and this sense of loyalty tends to be reinforced throughout officers’ careers….The unique demands that are placed on police officers, such as the threat of danger as well as scrutiny by the public, generate a tightly woven environment conducive to the development of feelings of loyalty. The refusal to report misconduct to proper authorities, or to falsely claim no knowledge of misconduct, is a common manifestation of these sentiments. Another is providing false testimony – ‘falsifications’ – to cover up or support the misdeeds of fellow police officers.” (302)
“The code of silence influences the behavior of many officers in a variety of ways, but it consists of one simple rule: an officer does not provide adverse information against a fellow officer. Under the code it is impermissible to criticize other police….Any criticism that does occur is kept under the control of those who have authority and influence within the Force. Any dissidents can be dealt with for a breach of the code, with the approval of other police.” (304)
“The blue wall [or code] of loyalty and silence is an unwritten code in many departments that prohibits disclosing perjury or other misconduct by fellow officers, or even testifying truthfully if the fact would implicate the conduct of a fellow officer….Police officers follow a strictly enforced custom of refusing to offer testimony that would adversely affect another officer.” (304)
Reference: Skolnick, Jerome H. 2005. “Corruption and the Blue Code of Silence.” Pp. 301-316 in Policing Corruption: International Perspectives, edited by Rick Sarre and Dilip K. Das. Lanham, MD: Lexington Books.
First of all, Wolfe and Ramos never arrested Kelly as a possible suspect for 459 PC, burglary”
“Thomas was detained by the officers at that time [8:37 p.m.] but not placed under arrest,” according to the DA’s report. “Based on prior undocumented contacts with Thomas, the officers behaved in a manner consistent with the belief that Thomas did not pose them any risk.
According to the DA’s report, that suspicious caller said a “homeless” man in the bus station parking lot was “looking in car windows and pulling on handles of parked cars.” Based on that weak description, Wolfe and Ramos would have had to arrest perhaps a dozen people.
After Cicinelli arrived and bashed Kelly with his knee and hit him directly with excruciating high voltage electricity, We keep hearing that Kelly reached for the taser. Yeah, no kidding! Of course he did.
Listen, Ramos turned anything resembling a police investigation into a street fight within minutes. Kelly knew what was good for him when he stood up. He knew he was in for a beat down. When Cicinelli got involved, Kelly knew he was going to die. He realized that no amount of pleading would help. He knew that no one on scene would intervene to save him – and he was right.
Cicinelli exhibiting nothing but criminal behavior from the moment he arrived on-scene. This was obvious to everyone involved. Instead of pushing Cicinelli away, the others involved only held Kelly tighter so Cicinelli could continue to bash away uninhibited.
Before this is over, everyone involved will be charged, including the watch commander.
I hope you’re right.
I heard this the other day from a credible source: Not only Slidebar, but numerous downtown businesses have been instructed that if homeless people are harrassing their customers or making themselves a nuisance, they should call the police and report it as “car break-ins.” This is because the police cannot respond to every call of “homeless people are scaring or bothering our customers.”
So though the call came from Slidebar, this is not something unique to that business.
I was at the Slidebar the other day and when I was leaving I asked the bar tendress if she knew who the manager was that called the police on ‘Kelly Thomas’, that homeless guy the police killed. She immediately looked away and said “No”.
When she came back with my change I said, “I will never come here at night with the kind of cops you got around here.” She seemed offended; don’t know why…?
Uh, John, did you have something to say??? Besides reciting the obvious, there just isn’t any excuse for your brother’s performance as a cop that night – NONE. Understood? You see, that is the problem with cops and cop families -they seem to be able to rationalize everything and anything. It’s sociopathic.
I suggest you spend your time honing your creative writing skills, as your piece is utter garbage. A pathetic attempt at propping up a scumbag cop. Your brother Jay was a thug wearing a badge, but will soon be a convicted felon doing time- as will be the case with fatman Ramon. These two officers and probebly other FPD officers will next face the music in federal court. Your brother ruined his life, career and probably his right to vote because he and Ramos could not control themselves. And John: Things DON’T happen unless people (cops) MAKE them happen.
If the State bungles its case and these two are let off the hook based on the arguments you raise, the DOJ will likely be charging other officers as well as the two cops already charged. It is a deplorable public relations situation when FPD officers at that scene July 5th are standing around watching as a man lay flat, bleeding and suffocating to death after apologizing to vindictive cops while other FPD officers stood around watching the action. This is what the DOJ will be looking at, in addition to many other aspects. Two cops could have easily handcuffed Thomas and stuffed this guy into the back of the car WITHOUT all of the theatrics.
The FPD IS A SEPTIC TANK and it is high time to clean out the barn. Quit making excuses for your brother.
Jay goes to the DMV , dmv person says cover your right eye and read to me what it says. No says jay, I cant see outta that eye. Dmv says FAIL! So if the state says he should not drive how the fuck did FPD decide he can be a cop. I thought it was a rough job (actually rated #10 and most fatalities come from traffic accidents) and being a rough job you would need all your facalties working. Common sense. As far as this letter goes, 2 words Fuck You!
We in Foolerton have come to a point of no return with the FPD and the do nothing city council. Once this point has been reached all trust is lost. Every week the flames are stoked and those that should try to mend these fences remain silent, which in turn makes it worse day by day.
Will these cops get off easy? Probably, but that doesnt mean the lack of trust will go away. These cops must interact with the very people that do not trust them, thats gonna make their job that much harder to do. Who wants to work in that environment? I’m not saying I have the answers but I do know that the FPD should be dissolved. Murder, theft, molestation, terrible attitudes and invading the wrong house with guns drawn (a house Pizza Hut delivery guy/ gal do not have a problem finding). It doesnt get any sloppier/scarier than that. Also, if there are any good cops left, they are probably trying desperately to get the fuck out.
yeah, how does Cici qualify for a driver license? hmmm? walk me thru the process
It’s downright wrong if certain businesses were instructed to falsely report vehicle break-ins to deal with homeless people annoying their customers.
I however understand their frustration. If you run a business where homeless people are constantly present annoying your customers, people stop coming and it adversely affects your business.
I speak from experience because I’ve stopped patronizing several businesses in Fullerton and elsewhere for this reason
Down right wrong? Its illegal. Hence false report. Look what happened with this false report. It got a man killed.
This
Wow so they’re not only evil, they’re also incompetent. Fucking clowns electrocuted EACH OTHER.
just wanted to say hi,
and tell you all that you are doing wonderfull work….
wonderfull and so important,
I am here occupying LA
I am going to attempt to orginize a few busses of people to come and do a thurs memorial walk , and introduction to fullerton,
and then ,, ??? occupy fullerton ???
thoughts suggestions,
sorry to get off topic,
FROM WALL STREET to LA OCCUPY THE USA,
(:
Occupy the front lawn of Fullerton PD or City Hall.
And remember DO NOT do this for Ron Thomas, DO IT for Kelly Thomas, all of the other victims who have suffered at the hands of this corrupt police department and the citizens of Fullerton who continue to suffer.
I think the biggest mistake of this movement was making Ron the de facto leader or voice of it when he fact only 1 of many of victims affected by this brutally corrupt police department.
Never give up and never give in.
“We are Kelly Thomas”.
Could be a good idea. I would think Ocuupy is against police brutality. Heard that they cornered
some of the Occupy N.Y. people on a bridge before arresting them.
I encourage the primarily left-leaning occupy NY/LA etc. people to network with primarily right-leaning police brutality protesters of Fullerton. Strength is in numbers, and the video I’ve been seeing of NYPD shows clear-cut police brutality.
Just got back home…why is there NO ONE in front of the police department today???
…Because Ron said so.
Kelly’s Army = Ron’s Army
Its all about getting that settlement $$$ then its adios and sayonara. I was there at the memorial concert, Ron was having the time of his life at the expense of his son. I’ve yet to see him holding one sign or shed one tear.
The biggest mistake of this movement was making Ron the de facto leader or voice of it when he is in fact only 1 of many of victims affected by this brutally corrupt police department.
How I wish people would wake up and understand that this was never about Ron Thomas. It was a group effort started by many dedicated individuals who worked tirelessly against this injustice.
So, it saddens me that a large majority of people have now decided to follow Ron Thomas and not their hearts.
“When Ron says go home we say hell no”
“GO HOME!”
“HELL NO!”
I as well went to the FPD to show my support for Kelly, my fellow Fullertonians and to show my deep respect and appreciation for my country and those who have died for us all. The silence was deafening.
I have no knowledge other than a gut feeling that I developed while growing up in the mean streets of Los Angeles as a youth, but I think that a monetary settlement has been potentially struck.
Like I stated, I have been to every protest and city meeting since the beginning as well as the concert and have passed the word every day as I work in the field around California cities as a contractor. I distinctly remember hearing that this cause would not wither and would go all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary and then all of a sudden we need to arbitrarily stop our fight ? This was the exact moment we needed to continue to fight and make our voices heard. But all of a sudden we hear the sounds of silence ??
I hope I am not being cynical, but I think something is going on. When I was asked to join the army of protestors, I volunteered willingly, knowing full well it could prove to be disaterous to myself and others who have now been identified. I did it anyway and now i am told just walk away in the heat of battle with my tail between my legs ??
I say something deeper is going on for this to happen. Hopefully I am wrong and just disillusioned prematurely, but my instinct tells me a different story.
I will further predict that if we silence our voices, the police will cop a plea, the “Tape” will never be released, a settlement will be made and “The Recall” of the councilmen will fail. Hope I’m wrong but I just do not have a good feeling. To reiterate, I have no knowledge of any of this other than my instincts which have gotten me through some life and death situations in the past.
If anyone has a differing opinion, please enlighten me and I hope to God you prove me wrong.
You are not alone in your feelings, my instints hightened at the city council meeting when Ron Thomas directed this to the mayor and council….”I just want you to know there are 2 book deals and a movie deal in the works so you should do the right thing now and step down so you don’t look any worse than you do now”………really?? Tell me it’s not about the $$$.
It’s not. It’s about the publicity.
When you accuse Ron Thomas of being in this for money all you do is parrot the rhetoric of the cop apologists trolls that once filled this forum, the OC Register forum, etc.
The difference between us and the cop-lickers is when they say it, they want everyone to sit down, shut up and start licking boots. They don’t want anyone asking questions or examining the truth.
When we say it, we want the fight for justice to continue. We don’t want to give up or give in. I think this was the worst time to simply walk away especially with the recall efforts finally taking off.
Personally I’m not happy the way Ron has been taking personal credit for exposing other abuses inside the PD when this is absolutely not true.
– Ron Thomas
This next line was infuriating…
– Ron Thomas
I’m also not happy that he’s making this all about his cause when he tells people not to protest in front of the police department. Like others have said there are other victims and other cases of abuse involving the PD. Should we remain silent until Ron says otherwise?
Absolutely not.
Unlike the cop-lickers I’m not going to fall in line and worship someone because of the uniform they’re wearing or who they’re related to.
My point is, do not put all of your eggs into the Ron Thomas basket and don’t blindly donate money to his foundation until you see documents proving where and what percentage of the proceeds donated are going.
I don’t think Ron is a bad guy but I don’t want him manipulating or taking advantage of the good will of others for his personal gain.
we just need to get organized if we’re going to keep the saturday protests up like maybe, for example 2x a month from 12-2. something like that -just an example-whatever anyone else wants to do
I just barfed…surely no one is taking this crock o shit seriously?
Uniball, you are going down you murderer and you can shove your fake excuses that no one in their right mind will believe, straight up your fat ass-you hear? brother john you can assist your murdering brother all you want (you are obviously a demon too) but the shit you wrote in his defense its nothing but happy horsecrap- FBI, DA and the people who serve on juries all over the country, knows that too
It is revoling to read this attempt to justify the violence done to the victim of the assault by Fullerton cops. What’s worse is that the author seems to consider it a standard approach. If the author is an FPD police officer (how else did he see the tape?), his attitude is the only argument we need to shut down the department and start fresh with something else.
I don’t think so; first time I met Ron was at that show, and he seemed like a legit stand-up guy. In fact, the following Saturday he told me he was going to take some of the money raised at the memorial and buy umbrellas “because the season is coming”. That does not seem to indicate that he is in it for a settlement (or why didn’t he take the initial $900,000?).
I just found it disappointing that no one was there today…we can’t let this issue disappear, Ron Thomas or not this is our community and we need to reform the police department.
Brotherly love is blind.
Why isn’t this a defense when ordinary people murder?
if I put someone in handcuffs and hold a pillow over their face until they died would that also be defensible as “positional asphyxiation”?
i think “jays brother” is EXTREMELY desperate. he forgot the part when jay says, “see these gloves? these gloves are going to f*** you up.” i really like the part when he says, ” In most cases these things happen with no intent on the parts of the officers to cause any level of harm, let alone have a person die in their hands; things just happen.” the last time i checked, when you pistol whip someone in the face, it hurts. not to mention the other forms of TRAUMA CAUSED BY THESE OFFICERS. p.s. jay cicinelli is an asshole, i know this personally.
I’m pretty sure Ramos said that not Jay.
Amazing thing about brotherly love! A few things brother of Cyclops left out.
He is on ‘roids. He has had psychological problems throughout his career stemming from losing his eye as a beginning police officer. He was promoted to Corporal because he listens to his superiors!
Amazing too that his brother forgot so many of these things about Cyclops! So since it is coming from his brother and not a neutral party, I take the info with a “grain of salt”! I can say this, despite his many foibles, Officer Cyclops is a good brother and probably considered a good cop by his fellow cops. He would never “rat on them”! You can count on him no matter what! He shoots first and asks questions later!
IT’S ALL OVER
JT;
I can only assume you must be directing this to the other poster ? I never accused Ron of being in this for the money, just as most of the good people I have met were never in it for anything other than the best of reasons. I just believe a setllement has been tendered.
Again, many of us took a hit on our personal lives because of financial as well as FPD retribution implications.
I simply made the observation that something doesn’t sit well with me. Now is not the time to step back but to step up with our demands for honest policing and honest government. That is why I said this cause was not just about the Thomas family. It was for all the citizens of Fullerton and so many other cities around the USA who have the right to expect that our leaders and law enforcement follow the laws of the land, just as we citizens are expected to do.
Having said all of this, I still think something is not exactly right with the turn of events. Sure, Ramos and Ciccinelli are being charged, but the other (4) conceivably can be back on the streets. Sure Rincon has been outed and potentially will be fired, but shouldn’t he face the same criminal penalties that any of us on this blog would face if we potentially violated women in the fashion he is accused? There is so much work to do and I can’t believe we are now at a halt. Sorry, it doesn’t quite feel right.
We are like the WWII Marines who were charging up Mt. Suribachi on Iwo Jima to plant the American flag at the top. Half way up, we lay the flag down and head back down the mountain for no apparent reason. That isn’t what happened then and shouldn’t happen now. If that offends anyone, then I truly am sorry and I hope the facts will prove me wrong. I deperately want to be wrong……..
Oh yeah, wasn’t meant at you at all.
I totally agree – this very quickly changed from a movement to get justice for Kelly Thomas, which is of course still paramount, to getting justice for ALL victims of abuse by the FPD, with an eye on a larger goal of getting justice IN GENERAL for victims of police abuse. But one department at a time.
Nobody is dropping the ball. This is more like a strategic pause. You are not alone in having your personal life (or occupational life) altered by this.
A lot has happened in the last 2 months. Now we wait and see – recall, lawsuits, Feds. The pressure should stay on the City Council, Gennaco, and the Feds. But maybe the street protest is a less effective tool AT THIS MOMENT than some other methods. Doesn’t mean it can’t come back.
Speaking of Gennaco, did anybody see the recent news stories on LACSD and the abuse in the jails? Check out this quote from today’s LA iImes: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-baca-jails-20111008,0,5570417.story
“There needs to be somebody from outside the county family to look at this. And let the chips fall where they may,” Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky said.
In calling for the investigation, Yaroslavsky said that having the sheriff’s Office of Independent Review conduct inquiries into the allegations was not enough. Yaroslavsky said he believed the office, which monitors department discipline of deputies, reviewed allegations in a light favorable to the Sheriff’s Department and he questioned the agency’s independence.
“Frankly I think they may be very much a part of the problem,” he said. “I don’t think we’re getting as timely a report from the OIR, nor do I think we’re getting as unbiased a report from the OIR, as we can expect.”
Michael Gennaco, who heads the Office of Independent Review, said he was disappointed to hear the criticism. He defended his agency’s independence and noted that supervisors last year asked him to oversee discipline of the county’s probation department.”
Just try pulling that shit in Fullerton Gennaco. We’re watching you.
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FEDUP and I were very dismayed to see no protesters today. I hope the D.A. does not get the idea we gave up.
Don’t give up!
THE MORON< MERIJOE< ET AL,
FEDUP and I still want to get a group together to discuss many issues regaeding this and other cases. If you, and anyone else, are interested, please let us know via this particular blog.
I was there around 11, didnt see anyone – went home- Lets organize so we can continue the saturday protests-maybe not every saturday-what do you think? yes we shouldnt stop, just organize
Lets have an open meeting. I said this a while back. Lets understand what it is we are up against. Meet at city hall right on the lawn or some other public place. Take the energy we have and direct it where it needs to be directed. We can always and probably will have to, go back to protesting at FPD, its our right. With this no leader is needed but ideas are. understand what it takes to get criminal cops disciplined, understand who we write in order to get justice. We can wait for them to do it or we as citizens of Fullerton can push up this effort. At the last city council meeting when the city’s attorney (i believe thats what he was called) explained the process, after he was done and through the yelling and screaming i kept asking him then where we in this investigation, beginning, middle, towards the end? No answer (but what else is new with those clowns though). Come to the city council meetings voice these questions you are putting up here and keep doing till we get some damn answers. We should meet Sat. morning 11am – 2pm. Bring ideas, bring your voice, you do matter god damn it.
will be there and so is vw at 9 next saturday to protest
I quit reading halfway down. It was pointless. The person who wrote that needs to come down to reality. I don’t care if Jay gave milk to baby kittens from a bottle or helped an elderly woman cross the street. Fact is he murdered a man with his bare hands, with furious rage & without a care in this world. I hope he sits in jail for a very long time.
I’m sure his childhood is the cause of that, and it must have been pretty fucked up. I can only imagine what Ramos’ was like. How can anyone with an ounce of intellect give these goons badges and guns?
Point. Sellers and McKinley don’t sound like the sharpest tools in the shed and people who are dumb like that use brawn instead of brain for everything.
They hired the same type of baboon brains who only know to use street smarts (fists) to get what they want-derrrrrr, is their official brotherhood code
You are right about that. And McKinley wrote this “She Bear” book doing his own research into the criminal mind (obviously he had to go no further than his own mind and the minds of FPD officers for that reasearch)? I don’t have the stomach to buy it or read it but it does worry me that he may have set some women and girls up for harm because he does not appear to be the brightest bulb in the pack.
I just ordered this book, I’ll tell you about it after I read it- heres where I found it http://www.amazon.com/She-Bear-Pat-McKinley/dp/0979741955/ref=lh_ni_t
He probably has antisocial personality traits. I also wonder about any brain trauma from gunshot wound. A brain injury can cause problems with impulse control, intermittent explosive disorder, and a host of other problems that can lead to violent behavior. It would be the brain injury that would be more problematic than having only one eye as a police officer.
I also have a feeling these guys had a well orchestrated routine and they had done this before. The first two go in and get the whole thing going, then Cicinelli and Hampton come in and increase the violence, and so on. They have probably practiced on other vulnerable victims who they see as no physical threat to them. A bunch of bullies only worse because they are violent to the extreme, wtih weapons, and acting under the color of authority.
Definitely there is some brain damage-you dont lose a whole eye by gunshot and dont have some brain damage to go with it (im a health professional) also there was someone who posted on here who was a juror at Cyclop’s trial when he was shot-the juror was shocked that he was a police officer at all after that trauma and made the point of how can you not have severe post traumatic stress and not see the criminal that shot you at every arrest or walking across the street in front of you patrol car? the juror thought CiCi would have been encouraged to find another line of work
Im sure there was a big mental issue too
and from a few other posters on here who have had the pleasure of interaction with the uniball in person-hes an asshole
I have treated schizophrenics and people with traumatic brain injury and the people with TBI were more likley to be admitted to the hospital because of violent behaviors. They are also harder to treat because psychiatric medications do not really treat organic damage. People with TBI to certain areas of the brain also sometimes develop what is very similar to bipolar disorder, and cylcle into hypomania or mania, poor impulse control, impaired judgment, irritability, lability, anger, rage, and can be violent. Their brains aren’t regulating dopamine properly and when they get high levels of dopamine hypomanic and manic phases occur. There is an intensity to their emotions that is not normal. I would not be surprised if Cicinelli had these issues secondary to the brain injury. It would be the brain injury that should have kept him from a continued career as a police officer.
well, yaaah.
Incompetent, uncaring McKinley hired him as a favor to his buddy but could have kept him behind a damn desk and not released him to the streets of fullerton to interact with citizens-wonder if CiCi was even given a pysch testing-oh what am I saying, of course he had one, but, the psych doctor most likely is dirty too and was paid off to say whatever, I hope the FBI looks hard at this issue
Guys, we here in Fullerton need to make the pressure stay on the FPD. I feel bad for Kelly and his family, but today was very disappointing. I was there, and saw a couple others looking as confused as I was.
Every Saturday, from 9 to noon would be fine, but WE NEED TO SHOW UP!
…sadly if this does not happen they win, done and done. I will see you there next week.
ok, promise me you’ll be there next saturday at 9 and you have my comittement to be there too
do you know for certain Ron Thomas said all that? no. just because its written somewhere with his name all bolded out doesnt mean he said that or wrote it. Ron Thomas is not an evil. selfish, uncaring person and those are just evil, uncaring comments.
and as far as giving to the foundation, I dont give a crap how much goes where, thats not why I give to something
Protest for what you believe in – always, I didnt start protesting to take up cause for Fullerton-I dont even live in the city, I started protesting in support of Kelly and his family as this touched my heart and I thought it was wrong and now a few months later, its about the corruption and pure abuse that these fascist apes have continuously gotten away with, and im no fool, i know its everywhere, not just fullerton, but fullerton to me serves as a symbol for all police everywhere to know we are no longer taking their bullshit and they work for us
Unless someone hacked into his blog and made this posts as him, I’m 100% positive he made those comments.
Otherwise he would have quickly denied it and pulled the posts by now.
Im standing on the fact that I dont believe ron would say that stuff, at least not in the way you think it was meant-plus hes grieving and some people are attacking him and his family for stupid reasons he doesnt deserve -hes not a wicked man with ulterior motives. hes very kind hearted and appreciative and so is his wife, Dana and Kelly’s mom, Cathy-also if something wasnt right Im quite sure Tony or someone frome this blog would say something
I choose to have faith in Ron and just go about my business-ie protesting or giving to the foundation or whatever and not drag him into anything
“but fullerton to me serves as a symbol for all police everywhere to know we are no longer taking their bullshit and they work for us.”
That’s what its all about.
I will be there.
AS WITH ALL THINGS. ALL THINGS END. LEAVE FULLERTON BEFORE THE FPD FUN BRGINS.
Oh hell no, next.
AS WITH ALL THINGS. ALL THINGS END. LEAVE FULLERTON BEFORE THE FPD FUN BRGINS.
Hey man your caps lock button is on. See you Saturday.
You must be nutz. Why put more money in his deep pocket. Give it a terrible review on amazon and tell everyone to post on amazon and barnes and noble what this creep is all about.
I wanted to see out of curiousity-Im sure my 1 purchase isnt going to help the toad -I will put a scathing comment, dont worry
Maybe ask why there’s not a chapter on what a woman should do if arrested by an FPD police officer, handcuffed in te back of his care when he sexually abuses her AND his behavior is well known to his superiors, including Pat McKinley. Who should the She-Bear go after then? Hmmm…
“the back of his car*
heh heh-Im going to copy/paste some of that “bill of Inditment: posting in my comment
Okay. Sorry.
im there then-see you next saturday at 9 in front of FPD or near there
Headed to the STARs training facility in Whittier I’ll be there for about an hour, I’m just sayin’
We shared a cardboard box together…
Dear John,
You understand, that watching that film- you have just stated in a public forum- you watch snuff films. Not sure your brother, is the only bad apple on the low hanging fruit tree you call your gene pool. Has anyone made sure Momma C is no longer producing? Hey- how many homeless you guys gonna have over for thanksgiving? just asking- figuring your family is such a beacon of society.
hes probably not his “blood” brother- most likely another fascist nazi
“What comes next is basic police work: A few knees by Officer Joseph Wolfe, as well as some punching to the face area.”
Really? Basic police work? Basic police work is sitting on the guy and each taking a hand/arm. You know that! Not punches to the face with a taser…
Did you listen to him scream and cry? Does that sound like a suspect heavily resisting?
John, may you and your brother Jay burn in hell eternally!!
Erin may you burn in shit hell eternally!!
Becaue you dont have a life!!
Is that the best you can come up with?
At least you could spell check before you post your one-liners.
I’ll be there because it’s a cause, for right, and sooner or later we all have to choose what line to stand at.
I’ve made this line mine.
Care to join me or are you just going to spend your life throwing out mis-spelled one-liners because you’re kissing someone’s posterior.
Additionally, try to be timely. Responding to posts 2 weeks after they’re posted is lame.
You just don’t get IT, do you.
I’ll be glad to explain what “IT” is if you need to know.