We Get Mail: Is It Just Me?
Friends for Fullerton’s Future,
I am struck by the comparative silence of the knee-jerk pro-police crowd about the irony that none of the six Fullerton cops who were present on the hot night of July 5th (when Kelly Thomas mysteriously slipped into a coma), are willing to talk to the DA to help further the cause of the impartial “investigation” being conducted by the Useless Rackauckas.
It seems hilarious to me that before “rushing to judgment” we are admonished to wait for the mature fruits of this so-called investigation which apparently will be lacking information from all seven of the people most immediately present at the incident. Since number seven won’t be talking anymore at all, this seems to suggest that the investigation will never be competently completed.
So how ’bout it FPD? Let’s get these boys a talkin’ so our hard-working DA can wrap up a thorough investigation and we move ahead.
Besides. If they have done nothing wrong, as many of their defenders claim, they have nothing to fear from our fair and impartial legal system.
F. W. Farnsworth
They may not talk to the DA but they will stand before the throne of THE ALMIGHTY-SURE WOULDN’T WANNA BE ONE OF THEM
LMBO !!!! Sorry everyone I just love this post… Let’s get to talkin boys… ROFLMBO!!!
Thanks F.W. I needed a good laugh today… well said.
NOW!!! Somebody get me a rope!
Reminds me of the Pace Picante Sauce commercials back in the day. Funny as hell.
Tell a cop “I know my rights” or even mention the constitution and they will get all bad boy on you. Seems funny when they get in trouble they start screaming “Police Officers Bill of Rights”….. sorta hypocritical if you ask me.
corrupt, this whole country is screwed since the institution of revisionist history, and allowing unions(communists) to get control over our educational system. we are paying a dear price for it now unless we continue to fight against police atrocities.
don’t say you know what your rights are, ask them what their probable cause is to do what they’re doing 9 times out of ten they can’t articulate it!
Don’t tell them you know your rights, ask them what their probable cause is. More than likely they will stop what they are doing, or be unable to articulate why they stopped you.
I just posted this in another discussion, but I think it applies even more here…
OC Register: DA gives update on Kelly Thomas case & budget
http://www.ocregister.com/video/v/1134683530001/crime-fullerton-news
I hope everyone sees how this works: T-Rack gave and he got. He gave a very effective, at least to my eye, performance in defending key issues for which his office has been harshly criticized. In return he was given an important platform to stick up for his people in the face of budget cuts, something he needs to do for many reasons, especially morale.
As for what he had to say and the way he said it….
I’m beginning to think the dots are connecting. This DA is going to bring serious charges against 2-4 officers. They might be able to go further, but since convictions against cops are hard to get, he might want to keep the case focused on the strongest evidence. No Slidebar conspiracy or other stuff either, for the same reason.
T-Rack’s no dummy, he knows he’s got an uphill battle. The sting probably hasn’t gone away of that go ‘round in 2009 with the cops, the one where his DA’s office took another kind of beating in trying to get an excessive force conviction. Cop after cop took the witness stand and either changed their story or developed sudden amnesia. T-Rack’s deputy DA was so exasperated that he came right out to the jury in closing arguments and declared “There is a blue wall of silence.” He’s probably really desperate to avoid, if at all possible, another scene in open court like that one,. After all, these guys need to work together. ( the story is here: http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-04-16/news/moxley-confidential/ )
So T-Rack needs to have this case in as tidy of a package as humanly possible, and he needs to go to court with super solid evidence that does not rely on cop testimony, which he knows for sure to be unreliable. He wants the autopsy report to be bullet proof, and for the surgeons to step up to the plate with a determined, certifiable cause of death. He seems to me to be publicly pressuring them by repeatedly mentioning their part in the investigation, and specifically their delay. And T-Rack badly needs that un-released video to, a) clearly show criminal excessive force, and b) as difficult to challenge, on any foreseeable grounds, as possible. If it’s as explosive as many of us suspect, we probably won’t see it until trial. Why give potential jurors a year or more to get over the shock of seeing police officers beat a man to death?
These are the critical items, but he also needs to leave no stone unturned in every aspect of the investigation. And he can’t count on anything but non-cooperation from the FPD every step of the way, from the initial investigation through trial.
That’s my read from seeing that video. T-Rack’s tone, his body language and demeanor, as well as his words, all convey to me a determination to go forward with a high-profile case against the cops, and prosecute it as if his career and future aspirations depend on it, which it very well might.
Well, I hope you’re right. A clean investigation and serious prosecution would go a long way towards earning him back some credibility with OC voters.
…all I heard was “uh” used between every other word spoken by the District Attorney, which is indicative of a compulsive liar incapable of recognizing what the truth even looks like.
Let’s see, T-Rack said twice that the investigation is nearing its conclusion, and he again put pressure on the Sherrif/Coroner to come up with a final cause of death so that the nature of the charges to be filed can be determined. He also explained some of what they’ve been doing these past weeks. T-Rack was informative, and at least to my ear, he sounded like a man about to do the right thing. And the fact that he agreed to be interviewed on the subject at all supports that view. Too bad all you heard was ‘uh.’
“he sounded like a man about to do the right thing”
It’s possible. There’s a first time for every thing.
Well, maybe there’s a second time for everything?
Inexplicably, FFF still charges that T-Rack has “never prosecuted an officer for excessive force in 15 years,” but here’s another bit from Scott Moxley’s 2009 piece on the People vs. Deputy Christopher David Hibbs:
“District Attorney Tony Rackauckas is often criticized (particularly by Steven Greenhut at the Register) for going soft on rogue cops; here, when faced with evidence that Hibbs used his Taser on a handcuffed gangbanger suspect, the DA’s office brought excessive-force assault charges against him.”
http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-04-16/news/moxley-confidential/
I too hope you are right, but my read of him given the adamant refusal to turn over the video, combined with all his defense attorney-sounding BS about “threats” against the fpd6, plus the way I’ve seen other DAs act before no-filing a case, makes me concerned.
Glad to hear about this other case he filed, though.
SAD TO SAY THE D.A. JUST AS MUCH SAID HE CAN’T FIND ANY WRONG DOING.
Did you see the interview on the OC Register (orange punch or whatever it’s called). It looked like T-Rack was wearing a dead squirrel on his forehead. Seriously.
Speaking of “Rush to Judgement”, check out this police log posted on http://fullertonstories.com/police-log-august-21-%E2%80%93-27-2011/
This is so ironic because Jeanne Hoffa and Fullerton Police Sergeant/Spokesperson/Union Boss Andrew Goodrich has no problem publishing the house location, the victim’s age and names of two men accused of molestation but they refuse to publicly publish or release the names of the 5 officers placed on administrator leave who were witnessed beating a man to death.
According to the log, they placed these two men under arrest solely based on what the roommate and the “7-year-old daughter” said but with the Kelly Thomas beating where you have dozens of witnesses backed up by a recording posted on youtube and another camera operated by their own department that recorded the crime, they still refuse to even interview the officers involved and they allowed these officers look at the evidence beforehand then allowed them write and rewrite statements until it looked good.
I also found this ironic…
That is funny because Cristobal Ortiz Rodriguez and Eduardo Ortiz Rodriguez were not only placed under arrest but were branded as child molesters by Fullerton PD and Fullerton Stories even before the DA “conducted an investigation”.
I could understand publishing their names if they fled and were wanted for questioning but what was the point of publishing that information if you already have them in custody. Surely Fullerton PD is making a “rush to judgement”.
And finally, 3600 W. Oak Avenue is a small street so everyone reading that story is going have a pretty good idea of who the “7 year old” is and where she lives yet if anyone dared to post the streets of where each of these officers lived, a DA investigator would be knocking down the door and demanding the post be removed.
Justice for all?
…Yeah Right.
Wow. You make an irrefutable point.
He does? Sounds like he’s comparing apples and oranges to me.
In context, one is a criminal matter; the other is currently a personnel matter.
An apples to apples comparison would be if the officer’s names were not released after having been arrested and charged.
Okay. But then how come the 6 are out walking around when we have a corpse and witnesses? The homicide occurred eight weeks ago.
The point is that “rights” and privacy are one-way streets with the cops and the DA.
Again apples and oranges.
One, they aren’t going anywhere, they aren’t likely to flee the country during the investigation.
Two, and most importantly, it’s not easy anywhere in the country to get a jury to hand down a guilty verdict against a cop for criminal use of excessive force. Not so much for Cristobal and Eduardo Rodriguez on molestation charges. Cops have an advantage in court, so do hot young girls like Casey Anthony, so do celebrities and wealthy folks. We may not like it, but this is T-Rack’s reality. It’s too bad that FFF bloggers refuse to acknowledge that T-Rack has prosecuted cops for using excessive force in the field, because to read what happened in the 2009 case of the People vs. Deputy Christopher David Hibbs informs everything that the DA is doing now in the Kelly Thomas case. Here’s a bit from Scott Moxely and the OC Weekly:
“During the trial itself, prosecutor Israel Claustro, a member of the DA’s special projects unit, grew increasingly frustrated… (he) was annoyed that several deputies at the scene who were within feet while Lares was Tased by Hibbs either changed their stories from their grand jury testimony to the trial or caught sudden, severe cases of amnesia. On the witness stand, deputies claimed they didn’t know Hibbs had fired the Taser, which produces an unmistakably loud cracking sound when activated. ”There is a blue wall of silence,” Claustro said during his closing arguments, producing a huge graphic of a blue brick wall with a center area occupied by a man putting his vertical index finger to his lips. ‘I hate to talk to you about a code of silence. We don’t want to believe it happens. But it does.’ “
Story here: http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-04-16/news/moxley-confidential/
Three, witness testimony is notoriously unreliable. Many people have trouble understanding this, but if you put five eyewitnesses up on the stand it’s highly likely that you will get five different accounts. This does not sit well with juries.
Finally, it makes sense that T-Rack’s deputy DA’s need to be able to stand up in front of a jury and say they conducted an exhaustive, 10 or 12 week investigation before even charging the deputies, this just to avoid the old Johnny Cochran-ism “rush to judgment.” It’s going to be a tough case, with no help from the police. T-Rack has got to get this one right. Again, not so much with Cristobal and Eduardo Rodriguez. And that’s why it’s apples and oranges all the way through.
if it had been any one of us doing this murder we would be in the gray bar hotel with a million dollar bail on our heads…
[quote]But then how come the 6 are out walking around when we have a corpse and witnesses? [/quote]
Have the coppers been arrested or charged with a crime? If I recall correctly, they haven’t for some idiotic reason.
[quote]The point is that “rights” and privacy are one-way streets with the cops and the DA.[/quote]
It becomes public record when one is arrested or charged with a crime. You can find out where the child diddlers live and more.
The DA is under no obligation to release to the people who they’re questioning and “suspect,” it’s not a matter of public record. They can, if they want, but they don’t have to.
Your comparison utterly fails. When coppers get arrested or charged with a crime, their names come out quite quick
You may be able to sue to get the coppers names released.
Exactly. Law enforcement fails to arrest and charge the way they would a civililian, and turn around and say oh, they are not arrested and charged. Same as, “wait for all the fact.” Meanwhile, who is withholding the facts from us? They are.
Regardless, fpd6 are “suspects” or at a bare minimum “persons of interest” – of particular public interest to us, the people they work for. Because the “investigation” is under their own control, the public has an even greater need to independent scrutiny via a free press. Threats have nothing to do with it. Police routinely keep names secret of every type of misconduct probe. The New Mexico cop caught on duty having sex on his patrol car on video is one example. Suspect info is also made public all the time.
The main reason for keeping the names from us besides avoiding giving cops the same embarassment of anyone else is to prevent the public from compiling a list of misconduct allegations by name of officer and checking on the disciplinary outcomes of investigations. Makes it hard to keep track of what bad cop did what where.
But what upsets me almost as much at this point with this case is the MSM. Given the names have been beyond dispute for so long, the MSM is ludicrous not to report the names themselves. Since when does something so obvious not get reported in say a Washington political context just because no “official’ government source will confirm it? Of course i realize the answer is the local media don’t want to be punished in their crime and court beats coverage by the monopoly holders in law enforcement. Pretty pathetic, though.
Does Jay Cicinelli have a prior history of police misconduct? Hard to know given if he had, the story on it probably didn’t go on the police blotter and was never revealed to the public. I mean, they even tried to cover the KT case up. Unless a victim speaks out to the media and it actually gets reported, most abuse cases are never heard about at all unless discovered via reporters sources, investigative local reporting, etc.
So good that this blog exists, and kudos too for KFI.
“In context, one is a criminal matter; the other is currently a personnel matter.”
Thanks for showing your true colors. I’ll admit when I read your glowing post about “T-Rack” I was a bit suspicious but I didnt completely grasp where you were coming from at the time.
I’m going ignore the overused “apples and oranges” idioms and just examine the absurdity of dismissing what happened to Kelly Thomas as a “personnel matter”.
In both cases you have witnesses who alleged a crime took place.
In one case you have video and audio evidence of a crime in conjunction with witness statements.
In one case you only have statements from witnesses.
In one case a girl’s innocence was allegedly taken by 2 men.
In one case a man’s life was allegedly taken by 5-6 men.
In one case the 2 men are day laborers.
In one case the 5-6 men are police officers.
In one case 2 men were arrested and their names & address released.
In one case 5 to 6 men were allowed to view evidence, corroborate their statements, return to work and remain on duty for weeks after the crime then they were placed on paid live and their names have no been released.
In context, one is child molestation; the other is murder.
Nice strawman, but I certainly did not dismiss “what happened to Kelly Thomas.” Perhaps you missed the word “currently?”
Like it or not, and I didn’t say it was right, but CURRENTLY the “Kelly Thomas case” isn’t a criminal case at all, it’s a personnel matter and CURRENTLY a pending investigation. I pointed this out in response to the question of the difference between the cops still not having been named and the case of the arrested and charged child molestors mentioned.
Look, I have stated in dozens of posts here and on the OCR that I think Kelly Thomas was MURDERED. I have also made clear that I believe the DA has been stonewalling until this all dies down. Now, after watching the video interview, and admittedly ‘thin slicing’ (see Malcolm Gladwell’s “Blink”) his demeanor and tone, I believe T-rack is going to bring serious and consequential charges. And he’s going to do everything he can to avoid another fiasco like the last time he brought charges against deputies for excessive force in the field, you know, the case Chris Thompson and FFF says never happened: http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-04-16/news/moxley-confidential/
Sorry, make that “arrested and charged ‘alleged’ child molestors.”
You keep saying that the officers weren’t charged with anything while completely and purposely ignoring the core point myself and other have made.
My point is, you have two situations where witnesses claim that someone did something but in one case the guys who allegedly did it were quickly hailed off to jail where they remain tonight.
In the other case where a death occurred and there were more witnesses and even several recordings, the people who perpetrated it still haven’t been held accountable for their actions and I’m not confident they ever will be.
When an accusation is made against Joe Citizen whether its murder, rape, theft, burglary, etc, he will be arrested and bail set even before the case is brought to the DA but the same does not apply to people who commit crimes while in uniform.
So this doesn’t make me confident in the DA’s so-called “investigation”, so far it seems like the investigators are playing favoritism and trying to white wash the investigation while trying to delay coming to a conclusion in hopes that people will forget about it over time like the Long Beach Police shooting of Doug Zerby.
Furthermore the DA still hasn’t charged the Fullerton PD officers involved in the Veth Mam arrest with perjury or filing a false police report even though they clearly lied in their reports and under oath.
A “Pitchess motion” would have to be filed!
Dont worry. The paper mache is falling off of the trojan horse.
Really, now you guys want to bitch about our legal system that has been around for hundreds of years?? Get a fucking hobby you slap dick MF er POS’s. Go and move to some other country if you dont like how its done here…. Adios MF
Newsflash. The current version of our legal system is not the same one that’s been around for hundreds of years. At best it is a bastardized version that overly protects law enforcement and biases the system against other defendants. Among these changes is the overcriminalization of what used to be ordinary conduct, or conduct which at most might be the topic of a civil suit.
Funny, I was just thinking about this today. When you hear the old adage, “Our system may not be perfect, but it’s the best in the world” think again. Our system WAS the best. Plenty of countries have systems now far better than ours.
Now I still do believe our constitution is the best. In theory. It’s what’s been happening in practice for the past 30 years or so that I have issues with.
..the level of hypocrisy smacked me between the eyes too!
Steve here-Fullerton PD Chief Mike Sellers gives up city car, cellphone and credit card while on med leave
http://twitter.com/#!/KFINEWS/status/108932596070748160
Fat The So: Didn’t the Rodriquez guys admit to the alleged touching? So what is the problem with releasing their names/addresses? They admitted they were guilty! A big difference from the Officers.
I LOVE how they worded it.
It never says they admit to the police that they did it. If you read carefully they’re saying that the caller claimed that they admitted to her that they did it.
Otherwise they would have said “The caller confronted the roommates. Police arrived, interviewed the roommates, who admitted to touching her and arrested… ”
It would be like me calling the police and saying “Jaynbond, admitted to beating a homeless man to death when I confronted him” then the story saying “Juan confronted Jaynbond, who admitted to killing the homeless man.”.
Public officials pros at carefully wording things to make it look like one thing when its actually the complete opposite.
I love how YOU worded it. Not that an admission of guilt has anything to do with their names being published but it the caller to the police was the PARENT of the girl, who claimed Cristobal and Juan Rodriguez admitted to having molested the girl. Police interviewed the men and arrested them, thereby making their names a matter of public record. Both men have been charged with 8 molestation related counts and are in custody awaiting a hearing tomorrow morning. The charges are as follows:
1. 0 05/01/2010 288.7(b) PC F Oral copulation or sexual penetration with child 10 years or younger
2. 0 05/01/2010 288(a) PC F Lewd or lascivious act with minor
3. 0 05/01/2010 288(a) PC F Lewd or lascivious act with minor
4. 0 05/01/2010 288(a) PC F Lewd or lascivious act with minor
5. 0 05/01/2010 288.7(b) PC F Oral copulation or sexual penetration with child 10 years or younger
6. 0 05/01/2010 288(a) PC F Lewd or lascivious act with minor
7. 0 05/01/2010 288(a) PC F Lewd or lascivious act with minor
8. 0 05/01/2010 288(a) PC F Lewd or lascivious act with minor
If and when the officers are arrested and charged, their names and the charges will also be a matter of public record.
Blah, blah, blah…
Only one or two officers will suffer any major consequences.
Even after the DA, FBI and the Independent Investigator hired by the city finish their investigation none of you will be satisfied!!
The 5 officers involved have given their statement. If it goes to trial they will testify!
Looking forward to reading all the conspiracy theories when this is all done!
In the mean time, if all of you want to do something worthwhile of your time, there are plenty of Kelly’s friends who need food, clothes and shelter!
“The 5 officers involved have given their statement”
Unintentionally hilarious!!! Yes, they all got together and cooked up a single report!!
Hahahaha! 🙁
You forgot to quote the whole statement!
“The 5 officers involved have given their statement. If it goes to trial they will testify!”
Thanks for the advice, Officer Blah.
By the way, standing up FOR the rights of citizens and AGAINST police misconduct and brutality is already quite WORTHWHILE. You should try it some time!
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!!
Again, look at the facts!
ONLY ONE OR TWO of the officers that were there will face any consequence!
I know you want to believe that, “6 officers brutally murdered Kelly” but that is not the case!
Walk into any place on a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday afternoon in Fullerton and you’ll see all of the locals don’t care!
They know there’s an investigation and it will be handled accordingly.
In the mean time, there are plenty of Kelly’s friends who need your help!
save us we need to be saved from more than Fullerton cops! this is pandemic!
Yes, Officer, I know you would like to us to run as far away from this issue as possible and stop talking about it, but no chance of that.
All the officers involved that night share culpability since all of them either participated or turned a blind eye (no pun intended on your comrade, Officer Cissy).
So even if “only two” are criminally charged for beating a suspect to death, does that make this whole story and the organized efforts of the community blah, blah, blah to you, Officer Blah?? Apparently.
It’s great to hold rallies. But they are woefully inadequate and insufficient by themselves. It will take a diverse, concerted community-wide effort to break the Fullerton City Maffia. Here are a few local, non-violent ideas:
1. Again, targeted fliers in the neighborhoods of elected and appointed officials (see an example in one of my earlier posts used years ago to help get rid of a Utah state senator who was coddling corruption.). It is never too early to begin to blanket the homes of officials who are obstructing justice. If you would like assistance reviewing your flier, I’m willing to help. Just remember to go in groups, have cameras ready, and be respectful of fences and private property in general. Fliers should be relevant and punchy. People should know that there will be no rest, either at the city center, or in their neighborhoods, until justice is done.
2. Organize a citizen review committee, comprised of NON-GOVERNMENTAL persons, to carefully review the behavior of your government employees, prepare press releases, provide commentary to the media and at meetings, etc. If the city council, as a committee, refuses to represent you, then create a private committee that does. How/why do you think the chambers of commerce started out?
3. Shop at stores where the owners have demonstrated meaningful support. Encourage other store owners to do SOMETHING. If they do, reward them with your business. If they don’t follow, spend your money on someone that does. You vote every time you open up your wallet.
4. Pass out little cards to keep the issue in people’s minds. Here is an example:
http://www.facebook.com/l/aAQAh5jvPAQBuidYQXgZpL1_DMtZ0mXID53V_FSrqum2Ziw/helmsmansociety.com/Issues/2011/Fullerton-Community-Corruption-Card.pdf
5. Assist however necessary with the recall effort. They need to go, or nothing will change for the better. And if you file an unsuccessful recall effort, it is worse than never filing one at all (unless it is close).
6. Recruit candidates to replace the most corrupt officials. If you don’t, your enemies will. File for office yourself if you are able. The more candidates, the merrier, particularly if they all focus on obtaining justice in this case. You can familiarize yourself with Fullerton city statute at
http://www.facebook.com/l/1AQBMQcBLAQBu_zqz7x72HcG81MlK_hH-l8BG__H0f7uyDg/www.ci.fullerton.ca.us/
Go down to the bottom left panel and click on “Municipal Code”. I’d view it with Frames if you can.
7. Attend, and put pressure on, chamber, Rotary, Elk’s Club, churches, and any other civic kind of gathering. The chamber of commerce, in particular, is a lynch pin that is being largely ignored. They should be passing resolutions demanding that the city take substantive steps to clean up this mess and restore the people’s confidence. You could even prepare specific petitions for them to sign, or resolutions for them to pass. Have them post those resolutions on the web, and share their petitions with others. Churches who are sitting on the sidelines should be called to task for abandoning one of their flock. They are personally and organizationally accountable as well, unless deity is now a respecter of persons.
Wow.
BRAVO, Daniel Newby. Fabulous post of a wonderfully thought out plan of action.
If I owned a small storefront business in Fullerton (and I might some day — hey, who knows?), I would put a small picture of Kelly’s pre-smashed face on my window. Just that.
Imagine hundreds of small pictures of Kelly’s sweet pre-smashed face on hundreds of local Fullerton businesses.
Daniel Newby is right. 100% right.
It will take a “diverse, concerted community-wide effort to break the Fullerton City Mafia.”
Here’s the thing. Kelly Thomas is bigger than Fullerton now. Daniel’s “diverse, concerted community-wide effort” should become a nationwide movement. I hope it does.
Bravo. Keep up the good work.
Justice for Kelly Thomas.
Daniel Newby,
Did you just sit down and come up with all that yourself? It sounds like potential Principles of Community Activism to me. Either you know people, have been taught, or have one righteous Internet link. If it’s a link please share. If you have book titles you can share, please do that to. If you actually came up with that all by yourself, you are impressive. In any case, thank you for posting it here where many people will encounter it. Hope Fullerton folks, more than one, will heed your suggestions because they sound genuinely productive.
Ah, one last thing, if there is no link yet, please consider establishing a webpage/site for the purpose of promoting and supporting Community Activism. Many people across America, and in other ‘free’ nations would benefit by those suggestions. imho.
All the best, Daniel.
Xer
I suggested the review board a couple of days ago. I think Gennaco would be the perfect person to help get the ball rolling on this project.
I agree and know plenty of fine citizens of Fullerton with NO government connections who would be willing to serve on such a board.
If the unaltered video ever gets released assuming they didnt focus in on some tree branch or something and it shows Kelly getting the $%%& beat out of him to the point of being comatose, you can bet that the locals and everyone else who has a conscience will really care. Lets hope justice is served by the magistrates in this case so we can all feel safe again. Right now people on both sides of this thing don’t.
Here here!
I think all of us that feel Kelly Thomas was murdered would like to see the video. It likely confirms what we’ve been saying. DA spox Susan Schroeder, a seasoned pro, all but confirmed as much when she very nearly broke down on CNN weeks ago while describing her own reaction to watching it.
But it now occurs to me that if I were the DA, and I really wanted a win against these cops, I would want the jury’s first viewing of the video to take place just before they go into the jury room to decide the officer’s fate.
Agreed!!
Hear Hear!
good conversation going here..
My problem I have that is even more concerning to me than the murder itself
The Captain/Sgt w/e allowed the men to put badges back on for 3 more weeks
If he doesn’t get fucking harpooned too then this is a sham
As pissed off as I have been.. it is probably best to save what I guess is HORRIFIC “dad, dad ,dad” video for the jury to gasp and vomit at when they watch it… BRING DOWN THE SHIT AT THE TOP though.. don’t pin this on underlings
abu ghraib?? blamed on some people who did not instigate or give the orders etc to do it…
Fullerton.. do not let only 2 cops get punished when the whole culture in that dept is rotten
THREE WEEKS the murders were allowed to stay on the force accosting the public at will
It won’t be difficult to find jurors who didn’t see the video if it is released publicly. TV news will only show a small fraction because of the gruesomeness and it will take interested parties looking it up online.
It will far better serve the liklihood of getting a conviction to keep the case alive via the outrage of what’s captured on the video. Not to mention it was a public event, captured on a public camera and we have a First Amendment. We also have a 5th Amendment to protect the accused, but I don’t see the release of the video as being a violation of due process.
the dude abides
Jeff, your interview at fullertonstories was a load of crap, someone should throw a coffee mug at your head.
Thank you to all.. this HAS FINALLY truly grown.. they cannot cover it up
http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&hl=en&gl=us&tbm=nws&btnmeta_news_search=1&q=kelly+thomas
Looks like Bushala gets MORE than mail;
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2011/08/oj-multifecta-ackerman-taps-dave-ellis-to-slime-bushala-in-defense-of-councilmen-who-cover-up-kelly-thomas-murder/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=oj-multifecta-ackerman-taps-dave-ellis-to-slime-bushala-in-defense-of-councilmen-who-cover-up-kelly-thomas-murder
All of us are at risk. Rodney King walked away from his beating and look what happened there. If the wheels of Justice need to be greased then the oil well is right next to the Summit House parking lot. FBI, DA, JUSTICE DEPT, please do the right thing for all of us. Be fair on this one. Alot is at stake. These are heavy times.
“High school football star quarterback beaten comatose by FPD at downtown bus station in front of multiple witnesses and police video camera”
“Mentally deranged transient in tussle with FPD goes to hospital with headache”
Exchange the victims in the case and headlines would be different based on the way humans think they are better than other humans
Fullerton.. I sincerely think you guys rock… not many cities would do this .. all this .. and be so brave.. I wish others would come to your aid and do the same
Thank you. We are on it. Do the same in your city.
When is the next council meeting?
Next Tuesday at 6:30pm
There was a report on another post that the September 6, 2011 meeting was cancelled a few weeks ago – perhaps because two of the “gang of three” are going to be in San Francisco on a political junket? Not sure of the dates of the event, however.
The political junket that you mentioned is during the 3rd week of September and is basically a political indoctrination into how to screw the pooch out of the taxpayer using their own money through the local redevelopment agency.
This link below is a local mixer for how to manage those same taxpayers when they find out they got screwed hard and want answers why? http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2011/how-to-manage-a-lynch-type-mob/
I will be tuning in from Texas. I really respect and support what all of you are doing for your community. It’s truly admirable.
Moral support like yours is what keep’s us going sometimes when our tank is on empty.
KT was saying Dad Dad Dad… because he thought Dad Thomas was kicking him out of his house again and probably thought he was being attacked by his dad.
You are one vile creature. Your insensitivity goes beyond the lack of normal human compassion and empathy and crosses over to sadism.
I only hope that you are not a parent or grandparent and do not have a job that puts you in a position of power over any other human being. If so, I fear for the physical/mental/emotional/sexual safety of your child, step-child, employee, etc.
Please seek help. You need it.
Worry about the future.
Jaynbond is 15 years old and is having trouble coming to grips with an awkward and late puberty.
Jay needs help, not scorn.
jaynbond is probably the lead maggot cop
You get under no one’s skin with your sadistic remarks no more, Jay Sissynelli. Did you get so pissed you had to run an entire 15 yards, breaking a miserable sweat to catch Kelly, therefore loosing your temper? Did you ever stop to think he could have possibly had mental illness and freaked out when he saw a cop with a glass eye, thereby putting him in a manic (scared shitless) state? You went too far and in front of so many witnesses. ALL of your posts depict you to be someone who would ‘loose it’ and kill an undernourished, homeless, schizophrenic, and innocent man. Get a death sentence would ya!!!
JaynBond = 13 year old son of a union boss helping daddy with his work to get a raise in his allowance?
Consider the general level and tone of all ‘Janie’s posts.’
Sounds like a fully functioning school yard bully, no?
Yes, and the overall intellectual construction of said posts do leave a lot to be desired.
…your post sounds like your dad already beat the sense out of you and that your drawing from personal experience?
This is what Dr. Reinhold Ott calls “projecting.”
Someone needs leak the tape so we can see what happened. I bet a million bucks that tape gets lost or disappeared.
It’d destoyed
It is not destroyed… Promise.
You can bet your az, if Kelly Thomas was dark skinned and the “6” had been wearing pointy hats and white robes they would be dining on “piss & punk”. aka bread and water.
Did Ron Thomas have a sit down with Coroner? Yes He Did!!! Have you heard anything from Ron Thomas about it? Very Little. Why? Because the coroner told him that there were no significant injuries to his head and neck that would cause death. Not verbatim.
The only thing found was a broken nose and that resulted in a bloody nose and that resulted in black eyes and bruising. The blood seen was dried onto his beard and hair line from his nose. Nothing more. SO keep on saying what you want. It does not make it so. A little blood goes a long way and the head is very vascular anyway. So therefore a lot of bruising.
I wonder if anyone from the DA or FPD bothered to photograph the “pool of blood” on the ground that a lot of witnesses talked about.
“Did Ron Thomas have a sit down with Coroner? Yes He Did!!! Have you heard anything from Ron Thomas about it? Very Little.”
Ron Thomas responds to the coroner’s initial report:
“I’ve seen the MRIs, I’ve seen the two distinct forms of brain injury, that he (kelly’s neurosurgeon) described to me, what they were and what I was looking at, one form lack of oxygen, one from blunt force trauma. I’ve seen the x-ray of all the broken bones in his face and his head, around his eyes, his nose and his jaw… they (the coroners office) have admitted to me that yeah, they have seen the one potion from the lack of oxygen, but they also need to come out and say ‘we also noticed the part about blnt force trauma, but they aren’t doing that… but the doctors clearly did, and it’s all there in the medical records… as long as I’m alive they (the cops) are gonna be charged, I’m not gonna quit…”
Seems like he has said quite a lot actually.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YxV1-eVTJY
He is lawyered up now.
He looks good, nice hair cut and gold chain and sunglasses.
Too bad his son didnt look that good, oh thats right he left him on the streets to rot. The same streets and city he lives in.
Stupid!
Known’ More = frustrated middle-aged wife of a union boss?
She is a little better edumicated than her son, but not by much. Perhaps if she can help hubby with his work he’ll finally have time for remembering to help her with her frustration?
I sure hope you are the police’s attorney ‘Known’ More’. You guys would stand a great chance of getting cleared…hahahahahahahahahhahahahha!!!
Yup, I guess Kelly Thomas’ attending physicians’ reports at UCI, and the MRI showing brain death from lack of oxygen to the brain, due to blunt force trauma, really don’t mean anything at all. And, a crushed windpipe from two full body knee drops, repeated Tasering and deadly choke holds couldn’t possibly kill anyone.
I guess poor Kelly just committed suicide while the officers had him pinned face down on the concrete for 15 minutes.
Not attorney to the police. I believe they all have a different attorney. Could be wrong.
I believe I heard that to on KFI possibly.
We must get rid of Police State. A mentally challenged man gets tasered and kicked by this cop for absolutely. Watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNJhNXvs34Q&feature=related
Unless there are some direct benefits, cops and politicans never like video camera.
Maybe you would like coma inducing bloody nose you cowardly punk.. you are only here to try and irritate… very cowardly
“You cant fool all the people all of the time.”
Abraham Lincoln. U.S. President
A little enlightenment:
From fullertonstories.com
Valerie on July 25, 2011 at 4:53 am wrote:
My son is 28 years old and he has suffered from schizophrenia since the age of 17. Schizophrenia is a devastating brain disorder and it is every bit as much of a physiological disease as diabetes, heart disease, Parkinson’s,cancer,etc. All of these diseases, including schizophrenia, must be managed for the long term. And every sufferer of these dreaded diseases deserves our sympathy and compassion.
Schizophrenia is particularly devastating because it attacks young adults, often before they have been able to complete their education, and it affects them for the rest of their lives. Whereas, other illnesses usually don’t arise until much later in life, after a person has finished their education and perhaps married and raised a family.
Each person who suffers from schizophrenia may have varying combinations and severities of symptoms; unfortunately, medication never completely controls all of the symptoms of schizophrenia. The correct meds will help to reduce the “positive symptoms,” which are delusions and hallucinations; however, medication does very little to relieve the “negative symptoms” which include: poverty of speech, the inability to start or follow through with activities, the inability to feel pleasure,flat affect, etc.
They also suffer from cognitive deficits which usually includes a loss of working memory/short term memory loss, slower thought processing, disorganized thinking, the inability to respond appropriately in social situations, the inability to recognize, and correctly interpret, facial cues and body language cues. They may use inappropriate foul language that may shock family members, since they never used to speak that way before they became ill. If you ask them about it, they may not even remember why, or what, they said. They lose their ability to understand what is appropriate behavior in social situations. They are easily confused and may take a very long time to process their thoughts and to respond to questions. They may not understand or remember the question and you may need to repeat it. They have very great difficulty in following instructions, especially if more than one instruction is given at a time.
They often do not have the ability to reason correctly and often don’t realize the consequences of their actions; they make very impulsive decisions. They often feel very stressed around a lot of people and will become confused and upset if you are speaking too loudly or too quickly, or if more than one person is talking at a time. It is difficult for them to tune out the voices/hallucinations/noise in their minds and it takes a lot of concentration and a calm environment for them to be able to focus and cope.
Being around other people and having to interact with others takes a lot of energy and concentration for them, so they will tire very quickly and need to be alone in order to decompress or sleep. They often prefer and need to be alone; therefore they isolate themselves a lot from others. They do not do well at all in stressful situations. If someone tries to touch them, they will most likely interpret it as a threat. They are often hyper-sensitive to touch and to sounds. A lot of schizophrenia sufferers are paranoid to begin with and don’t trust others and don’t want anyone to get too close. If they are frightened they will become immediately defensive. Because of their paranoia, they often do not want anyone to stand behind them or too close to them. You absolutely must speak calmly to them at all times; do not threaten, do not yell at them, or speak critically about them or argue with them. They can not understand your arguments and reasoning,and your arguments will only go in circles that don’t make any sense; therefore, arguing with them is pointless and very counterproductive..it will just make them even more upset and defensive. If you remain calm at all times, talk softly and gain their trust, you will have a much better chance of gaining their cooperation.
The point I am trying to make here is that schizophrenia is a very severe and life altering brain disorder. Schizophrenia is not a choice.
Other brain disorders, such as bi-polar disorder and severe depression, also have many of the same overlapping symptoms, such as hallucinations and delusions or depression- because of the fact that they are all brain disorders.
One Percent of the population- that is one out of every one hundred people, has schizophrenia. In a high school of 3,000 kids, that works out to be 30 kids who will develop schizophrenia. That is a lot of people. Now, multiply that by the number of family members, parents, grandparents, siblings and friends who are severely impacted emotionally and financially and also very often with major disruptions to their lives, jobs, and family relationships, and you can see that the human toll of suffering adds up very quickly. I could go into more detail on this, but it would take up a whole book.
Schizophrenia can be managed; however, even under the very best of circumstances it is still extremely difficult for sufferers to respond appropriately in everyday situations. They are continually battling to make sense of their world. They are kind, gentle, wonderful, good, intelligent,loving, compassionate individuals. But, cruelly, schizophrenia has robbed them of their ability to interpret their surroundings correctly and now they struggle to understand what is reality and what is not.
Schizophrenia is NOT a split personality; it IS a split with reality. They are our brothers and sisters,our aunts and uncles, our sons and daughters and our grandkids. As parents and families, we love them very much and we are tortured every day, by not knowing how to get them the help that they desperately need.
Meanwhile, as parents, we must go to work to provide for our other children, take care of our aging and ill parents and grandparents, worry about our own personal health issues such as prostate cancer, breast cancer, etc., unemployment issues, worry about whether, or not, we will lose our home because of unemployment, and on top of everything else- we have huge medical bills and legal bills as a result of caring for our loved ones who suffer from schizophrenia. Our families are stressed beyond belief with anxiety, fear and depression. The sense of loss and grief that we feel is at times unbearable, knowing that our loved one will never go to college, get married, or have the wonderful, happy, productive life that we had always envisioned for him. We are worried constantly that someone will threaten or hurt our son, or that he will commit suicide. At the same time, we NEVER give up trying to help him, and we always have hope for the future. We keep researching for anything that might be of help for our loved one- any new advancements in science or the latest research studies. It is a never ending search to find answers.
Mental illness is not a crime. I have heard the statistic that about 30%, or more, of the homeless population is mentally ill. It may be even higher than that. Someone who has a mental illness is not capable of responding to an officer’s demands in the same way that a healthy individual would be able to. And, in a stressful situation such as being searched, touched, questioned, yelled at, etc., someone with a mental illness is going to be very paranoid and upset and perhaps respond by trying to run away or by other erratic behavior; they can’t help it, and they are not always able to think through the consequences of their actions.
An individual who has a mental illness should not be beaten into submission just because they are not able to obey the officers’ demands that they “stop screaming or moving.” The person who has schizophrenia is not trying to “resist arrest” or “challenge authority.” He is trying to preserve his own life. He is in defense mode and he is afraid for his life. Remember that people with schizophrenia are often very paranoid and they are not able to reason and interpret situations correctly. If the officers feel that the mentally ill person “is a danger to themselves, or others, or gravely disabled,” then in my opinion, the officers should take him to a hospital for an evaluation on a 5150. There is no need to beat a suspect to death. There is no justification for the officers belief that they have the right to be the jury, judge and executioner. We are still innocent until proven guilty, aren’t we? At least I hope that didn’t change. And, I hope that applies to everyone- especially the homeless and the mentally ill.
If the little bit of information (tip of the iceberg) that I have written above is something that the FPD officers have never heard before, or if they need a refresher course- then may I respectfully insist that they should ALL take a free series of classes, called “Family to Family” which are sponsored by NAMI- in order to become educated about severe mental illness- and in order to better serve, with empathy and compassion and humanity, the people that they have sworn to serve and protect.
There can never be justification for beating anyone to death. How can the officers reasonably expect someone to stop screaming or moving around in agony when they are having their head bashed in with a flashlight? Could the officers hold themselves to that same standard? Do you think an officer would just lie there without screaming or moving after he had been tazed three times? and inhumanely and severely beaten? Maybe we should have an officer demonstrate for us all how we should react under those same brutal circumstances. Why have the officers lost all compassion and feeling for their fellow human beings?
If the roles were reversed, and a police officer had been murdered by six men, you can be assured that the suspects’ names and photos would have been plastered all over the t.v. and newspapers. It would be headline news for weeks. But, since a homeless, mentally ill man is murdered…all we hear is crickets?? Something is very wrong with this picture. RELEASE THE VIDEO.
quote eyeneversayno
“It’s too bad that FFF bloggers refuse to acknowledge that T-Rack has prosecuted cops for using excessive force in the field, ”
^
“cops” ? Hibbs is a single officer.
The case ended in a mistrial per the article. Did T-Rack refile charges on Hibbs? I dont know…
And yes, it appears he ran into the blue code of silence in that case from the statements made. I too hope T-Rack brings some big charges for these thugs.
Really? That’s the best you can do? Fault me for using the plural ‘cops’?
Sorry, but the point remains the same: FFF has said repeatedly that ‘T-Rack has never prosecuted a police officer for for using excessive force in 15 years on the job.” Then the case of the People vs. Deputy Christopher Hibbs was pointed out and no correction or retraction was ever made by FFF, not even an acknowledgement of error. Sorry, but the truth matters, and it matters a lot with regard to the Kelly Thomas situation, because as I’ve said, what happened in the People vs. Hibbs goes a long way in explaining why T-Rack is taking a different approach this time around, and why the investigation seems to be dragging on and on.
No, the DA didn’t re-file charges. The 2009 case ended 11-1 for acquittal and without the cooperation of the officer witnesses, who as was reported “either changed their stories from their grand jury testimony to the trial or caught sudden, severe cases of amnesia,” T-Rack was left without a case. This is important because obviously T-Rack learned a big lesson, he can’t count on help from the police, not any police, anywhere, anytime, when it comes to charges of excessive force. It’s my take that he doesn’t want this to happen again. Don’t get me wrong, he’d probably like the Thomas case to just go away, but it’s not, so he has to make sure he can win this one basically without witness testimony. He has to assume the cop witnesses are going to lie again, and that the civilian witnesses aren’t going to do him much good. With their likely differing accounts and perhaps questionable backgrounds, they will, at best, be cancelled out by the lying cops. Juries want to believe cops, not so much the homeless and the economically disadvantaged OCTA riders (I suppose I better add ‘not that this is right’ or I’ll be attacked again).
Read what happened in the People vs. Hibbs and it becomes clear: to get a conviction T-Rack needs the autopsy to clearly show the cause of death was directly and unambiguously the beating, and he needs that tape to have all of its emotional impact fresh and unchallenged when he shows it to the jury. I would show it near the end of direct, or perhaps even during closing arguments. Let the jury’s first viewing be just before deliberations. Release it now and there will be a year or more of debate about just what it shows, and inevitably it will lose much of its impact and ‘reasonable doubt’ will have been cast. Some may recall, and I’m sure T-Rack does, that’s exactly what happened in the Rodney King case.
All of this is to say, if you want justice for Kelly Thomas, keep up the pressure, as T-Rack and Ron Thomas are doing with the coroner, but understand, the tape is key, and its impact simply cannot be compromised just because we who believe Thomas was murdered oh so badly want self-confirmation.
Watch yesterday’s OCR interview with T-Rack (also unreported on by FFF, btw), the supposed ‘do-nothing DA’ appears to be trying to build a solid case against the cops, one that will survive their willingness to develop amnesia or outright lie under oath… of course that can’t be easy. Certainly not as easy as so many hear think it should be. Oh and forget about ‘good cops’ coming forward, ain’t gonna happen, and even if it did they’d probably again just be sandbaggers.
http://www.ocregister.com/video/v/1134683530001/crime-fullerton-news
wow you got ONE. now go change your panties
I don’t understand your attitude. This isn’t about the score in a game, this is about looking back and seeing what has happened in a previous attempt at prosecuting officers for excessive force, and understanding how that experience might be influencing T-Rack’s approach this time. If you deny it ever happened then you can’t learn from it.
I guess I’m starting to wonder, is FFF’s main interest here justice for Kelly Thomas or something else? If it’s justice then it sure seems like understanding fully what’s going on would be a very good thing.
Thanks for the panties comment tho. Very mature of you. 🙂
The National Police Misconduct Statistics and Reporting Project
Prosecuting Police Misconduct
Per a recent analysis we published this year using data gathered by the NPMSRP from April of 2009 through December of 2010 we determined that prosecuting police misconduct in the US is very problematic with conviction rates, incarceration rates, and the amount of time law enforcement officers spend behind bars for criminal misconduct are all far lower than what happens when ordinary citizens face criminal charges…
Read the rest here:
http://www.npmsrp.org/#_Excessive_Force
The stats are from the US Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS).
I think it’s time for some changes.
Thanks for your posts Jane H. Especially your enlightening one on Schizophrenia.
To answer your question about us being ‘innocent until proven guilty, I believe you answered it yourself later in that post when you stated, “If the roles were reversed, and a police officer had been murdered by six men, you can be assured that the suspects’ names and photos would have been plastered all over the t.v. and newspapers. It would be headline news for weeks. But, since a homeless, mentally ill man is murdered…all we hear is crickets.” In other words ‘law enforcement’ is innocent till proven guilty and us ordinary citizens are guilty till proven innocent. Again, love your thorough explanation on the mentally ill. My 17 year old son was diagnosed w/ Bipolar II with psychotic features when he was 13. His mother (now homeless) had it extremely bad. He is now in a residential treatment school in Utah and I’m going through the sadness and grief you mentioned that the parents/caregivers undergo due to his inability to have a normal life. Not to mention, I now worry about him possibly living out in the streets and potentially getting pummeled by some ‘out of control’, ‘gestapo-like’, badged apes.
Sorry to hear that. Hopefully you wont take a lesson from Ron Thomas. Protect your son and care for him.
You smug asshole, you don’t know Cathy or Ron Thomas, how dare you assume they didn’t take care of him. Its not true! Liar!
I didnt assume its a fact, he was living on the streets.
No, saying that you somebody didn’t protect and care for someone is NOT a fact, especially with the reason you just gave. It is a smear. You refuse to acknowledge what they did for him and they ways they did provide for him. Furthermore, you appear to equate forcing this 37 year old person to live indoors with caring for him, which is beyond myopic. You continue with your refusal to acknowledge good things they have done for him. Why?
It’s a good thing that everyone here can see through to exactly what type of human you are (or aren’t). If you hadn’t repeatedly exposed your character, we might find your smear job of the grieving family infuriating.
We don’t hate, fear, or respect you. WE. PITY. YOU.
Does anyone remember this letter published in The Observer in 2008?
Titled: Who’s Ruining The Fullerton Police Dept.
scroll to page 2
http://www.fullertonobserver.com/artman/uploads/foms.pdf
Wow. that is quite a find. Seems to place blame on the Commander and Command Staff. Are those the captains? Anybody have a document with the complete personnel list of FPD by rank?
Why bother the names have been released on this website many times. And they have been convicted. Innocence until proven guilty !!!! They have rights too
Kelly had rights as well, did you assholes do anything to protect him or his rights? Hell NO you didn’t!
I spit on you
Yes, and they have taken full advantage of those rights (the same rights, by the way, that they scorn when asserted by the “real criminals” and dismissed as “technicalities”).
1) Releasing their names does not take away any of their rights. They are public employees, and the courts have consistently upheld that the public’s right to know far supersedes any privacy rights in a fatal shooting or beating.
2) They have obviously exercised their right to remain silent and not self-incriminate, judging by the reports that they have NOT cooperated with the DA.
3) They were given the “right” to view the videotape and “refresh their recollections’ — get all their stories straight, a “right” not afforded to the general public or other witnesses.
4) They are on fully paid leave, so they have suffered no criminal or civil penalties (yet) while Kelly Thomas has died a horrible death.
So tell me, Officer, WHOSE rights were actually denied??
Eventually those names will be brought out in court. So what does it matter if we know who they are?
“Releasing their names does not take away any of their rights. They are public employees…”
Nice that you tied this together. It’s key to understanding the situational difference between the murderous thug cops and civilian criminals. The cops have the same basic rights as civilians, but they are also employees of the same people ultimately in charge of the investigation. As employees, they have additional rights tied to the employer/employee relationship. If you worked for IBM and got in legal trouble, the cops could release your name as being a suspect, but IBM sure as hell best not publish the same info in a company news letter!
In the trial that is sure to follow, this will change, and all of the names of all of the officers involved will inevitably become part of the public record. Until then, you don’t want to give any of these cops a reason to file a grievance and possibly collect more money from the taxpayers, do you?
SAve the Fullerton Cops is pleased to have a position whereby he can go out and brutally murder and innocent citizen and be kindly rewarded be his upper incompetents with and indefinite ‘paid vacation’.
It does seem written from the perspective of one who doesn’t think they should abide by the rules of their professioin.. that recording device should be as easy to activate as breathing.. yet they complain. .hmmm
Amazing, isn’t it?
Pushing the record button on a DAR is a burden of difficulty, yet, pulling the trigger on that Taser is oh so easy.
So this Farnsworth fellow wrote, and Tony Bushala thought it worth posting:
“It seems hilarious to me that before “rushing to judgment” we are admonished to wait for the mature fruits of this so-called investigation which apparently will be lacking information from all seven of the people most immediately present at the incident.”
This is “hilarious?” Not only is a not funny, it’s not exactly unexpected, and even if FPD officers did participate in the DA’s investigation, the DA knows he can’t count on any of the police officers at trial. He knows this from his 2009 experience in the People vs. Orange County Deputy Sheriff Christopher Hibbs, where officers called to the stand “either changed their stories from their grand jury testimony to the trial or caught sudden, severe cases of amnesia.”
If you know and understand this important fact, then you have at least some of the background necessary to understand why the investigation is taking so long, and why the video and favorable to the prosecution coroner’s report are so absolutely important.
Here’s the link one more time, ’cause you won’t hear about the People vs. Hibbs from FFF… seems it doesn’t fit FFF’s narrative that T-Rack never prosecutes cops and that the police in Fullerton are uniquely corrupt… and anything that doesn’t fit the FFF narrative apparently never happened….
http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-04-16/news/moxley-confidential/
First, I know you’re on the right side here but….I think the point of the comment was that if a suspect/person of interest refuses to talk to cop or DA they are said by these same government :LEs they are “not cooperating.” In other words, he is pointing out the double standard – not arguing against the 5th Am.
I assume the hilarious part was the sarcasm of it all. The cops would be stupid to talk and underneath their bull shit they know we as civilians are stupid to talk. You should never talk to them if you even remotely can be considered a suspect of anything. All communication should be conducted via an attorney.
Conversely, they should STFU in the future and avoid tainting the jury pool by making public comments about all other suspects “refusal to cooperate.”
I think it’s obvious that all the points you are nitpicking about are people pointing out the tremendous double standard when it comes to LEOs suspected of crimes or misconduct. Pointing out a double standard is not the same as calling for the abolition of the 5th Am.
I just watched the video of T-Rack’s OCR “interview”. More like a speech. Mr. Calle might want to think about follow-up questions beyond, “thanks” and “OK”
I saw nothing whatsoever on that video that supports the view that it looks like the DA is going to prosecute. And he even made it sound like he wouldn’t release the video even if he did bring charges. He pointed out witnesses could be vulnerable on cross examination. No mention if the cops were witnesses that he would have an advantage, right, in being able to argue taint.
He did not seem peeved at coroner’s slowness in the least; merely tried to give excuse for investigation not being done now totally within his control.
I don’t think he gave anything away in either direction in this interview, and his prior comments on the “threats” made him sound like attorney for the POA. A DA does not talk this way if a potential defendant is squarely in his sights. Not when the “threats” claims were so weak. Sounds more like a DA setting the stage for “innocent victim” cops to cushion the fall of a no-file in the case.
Still, I have hope. Most no-files wind up taking more like 8 months of investigation. IF TR is telling the truth that it will be wrapped up soon, that’s a good sign. I think. I hope.
Yet another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjOxEI729QM&feature=related
Been reading the blogs and came to the conclusion that Ron Thomas is a disgrace to the Police community. He said that he was a police officer/deputy, Sorry to hear that. But it seems that he did not pass probation, couldn’t pass the psyche part of the job.