What Did McKinley Know, And When Did He Know It?
Friends, we just received this e-mail from a gentleman named George Marshall Thompson who asked if we would publish it. Yes, we will, George. ‘Cause that’s how we roll. And thanks for the submission.
Dear FFFF,
We all saw Fullerton councilman, former police chief and architect of the culture of corruption within the FPD, on CNN. After his cavalier and insulting comments about facial injuries he indicated his belief that it was probably just two cops involved in the murder of Kelly Thomas. He also denied seeing the video.
And after the DA charged only Ramos and Cicinelli with crimes, I’m starting to get a picture in my mind. And that picture ain’t pretty.
We can speculate all day about whether or not McKinley saw the video and then lied about it; or simply read the doctored reports; or received “unofficial” briefings from his pals in the department and the FPOA to which his colleagues on the council were not privy. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if something tumbles out of McKinley’s closet when he is deposed by Garo Mardirossian. But something else is disturbing: the fact that McKinley’s ostensible “speculation” about two cops mirrored anonymous troll comments on this site and ultimately neatly corresponded with the DAs charges.
Is it conspiratorialist to suggest that it McKinley himself participated in the plan to hold Ramos and Cicinelli under the bus as a form of damage control for the other four cops, and more importantly from his perspective, for the good of the whole FPD? Maybe, but it sure is weird that McKinley seemed to know what was going to happen six weeks before it did. And McKinley isn’t psychic. He isn’t even very smart.
Throughout this whole affair I’ve picked up the vibe that it was McKinley who was calling the shots for the City of Fullerton as disaster after disaster piled up; that it was he who told Sellers and Praet to try to buy off the dad, and that he was receiving inside information, perhaps not even shared with the City Manager, and certainly not with Whitaker or Quirk.
Maybe someday we’ll know McKinley’s role throughout the so-called “internal investigation” that never even started until Gennaco was hired. In the meantime one thing remains crystal clear to me. It was McKinley’s total lack of oversight of his own police department that led to the horror show that’s been unfolding the past few months, and that keeps unfolding as more and more Fullerton cops are busted for one crime or another.
The reputation of the Fullerton Police Department is unreveling before our very eyes. And the people of Fullerton are going to pay dearly for the corruption therein.
G.M. Thompson
Good statement. I agree that McKinley has been in cahoots with FPD during the disinformation campaign.
Newsflash for Cueball: “real” cops don’t steal iPads, commit fraud, sexually assault handcuffed women, beat up and jail innocent bystanders, lie under oath, dogpile onto a man already on the ground, falsify reports about a murder, and of course lie to the media consistently as Herr Doktor Josef Goodrich has done.
McKinley you are either utterly incompetent or utterly corrupt. Either way it’s time for you to go.
wow so true wow so true that’s exactly exactly exactly what I thought as well mckinley has the deepest darkest closet and was the boss of all of the cops and probably hold strange way over his fellow council members and police cronies. definitely definitely definitely I think that’s a true mexican rommel’s under the bus and I’ll gonna give since about lee a little slap in order to protect the other 4 and supposedly try to appease the people and seem to the media like they want justice as well but they are really just throwing their least desirable employees under the bus. and it’s common fact that mckinley hates mexicans. hates…
good show today, stay on your toes this is far from over
little chicken
Very enthusiastic crowd today as always.
what time did you get there? I was there until 12
Did it start late? Or was it in a different location? I drove by around 8:50 a.m. and saw no signs, saw someone at a bus stop on the N/W corner of Highland/Commonwealth and one man walking that way up Highland.
they started a little past 9 today
Thanks; appreciate the info
it was a great protest as usual, wish the crowd was a little bigger to show outrage against the da’s shennanigans.
next week it will be I bet
What exactly did McKinley say that “mirrored anonymous troll comments” on here?
He said that there were maybe two cops involved in misdeeds. Same things as certain trolls started saying. At that point I too came to realize that the civilian authority (McKinley) was involved in communication with the trolls. I also believe there was ex-parte communication between the cops, McKinley and the DA investigators.
9c1 I looked for you but I didn’t want to deal with the crazy looks I’d get if I asked people, “Excuse me, are you 9c1copcar from FFF?”
lol
I found him and FEDUPWITHMORONS in their usual spot. and they’re both nice people that you’d want as your friends or neighbors.
MCKINLEY IS A DANGEROUS MAN AND NEEDS TO GO
I know two FPD officers and they both confirm that just about everyone on the force blames McKinley.
Wow.
Please tell us more details if you have any.
It seems that the DA has a challenge here. As more secrets emerge he will need to accelerate the closure stage to this public nuisance. The DAs struggle require calling in many favors and payouts to satisfy the union bosses. What a mess.
I concur he should have pulled the strings and ordered all the evidence destroyed.
Oh, great. The posts are hitting out of sequence again.
Will the Feds RICO the PD? Go Feds! Lets get to the truth and shut down the corrupt system that lead to an unlawful and brutal killing of an innocent man.
Merijoe was that you in the black Kelly shirt when I introduced myself to Ron Thomas as I was leaving?
nope
oh now that I think about it I did have a black jacket that i kept taking off and putting on-maybe it was me-I was with Ron too -maybe it was me anyway, I’ll meet you next week for sure-if you plan on coming
I am amazed that the voters of Fullerton could be so dumb to elect a $220K+ annual pensioned “public servant” to lead their city at a time that these type of out of control pensions are leading the cities down the road toward bankruptcy. I guess thats kind of like the political version of dancing with the guy who brought you to the Ball.
LAPD, worst reputation in the USA. Anybody remember Rodney King? Many years later, business as usual.
The common person isn’t to intelligent. The FPD proves this. FOUR MORONS STAND THERE WITH THEIR BADGES AND BELT LADEN TOOLS OF DISCIPLINE AND SAW NOTHING OUT OF ORDINARY. MAYBE THEY NEED TO HAVE THEIR HEARING CHECKED.
I read an article in the LA Times today that “waistband shootings” (shooting of a person supposedly reaching into his waistband) are on the rise in LASD.
SOMEONE PLEASE
Look up the California and Federal Statutes etc about
Conspiracy to coverup a murder 😉
Merijoe,
FEDUP and I arrived at 11:20.
i didnt see ya, sorry-i would have run up to you both- again sorry, next week
didn’t see wrong either.
Wrong told me he had to go out of town this weekend
hopefully, next weekend we are a bit more organized.
MY USERNAME ROCKS,
I will always be the one with the Marine Corp Hat and t-shirt on. You cannot miss me. FEDUP and I usually sit on the City Hall lawn in red, white, and blue chairs. Will look forward to meeting you soon.
Have the FFFF (Tony & Chris) thought about reaching out to “60 Minutes” and/or “Front Line” — assuming that they are not already looking at this for a future airing — to take this to the next level? I still have my doubts about whether or not the DOJ/FBI are going to do much now that the DA has offered up two sacrificial lambs in the hopes of keeping the local “natives” from getting any more restless than you already have been? But hats off to FFFF for putting this puss filled oozing boil under the SEM for all the world to see!!!
Shouldn’t admit this, but I buy People magazine every week; this week’s “feature” was about Casey Anthony and how she has to “hide out” (bring on the violins); as I read that, I wondered why People couldn’t do some sort of story about Kelly and all that has happened…
I guess we could start email blasting them=maybe they would do an interview with Ron Thomas if a whole lot of us innudate them with pictures, stories and letters?
Actually, the email doesn’t show anything new. I had asked the very same question a long time ago. If McKinley didn’t see the video, than how in the world did he know that 2 cops were the main perpetrators?
Also, he specifically mentioned that Kelly Thomas had been hit with a taser. He said “I believe a taser was involved, that he was hit by a taser.” I’m paraphrasing, but I’m sure I’m pretty darn close to what he actually said. It wouldn’t be too hard to look up the video of his interview on CNN. In any case, he specifically mentioned a taser.
Of course, the anonymous informant who called John and Ken at KFI also said that Kelly was hit with a taser. But somehow, I seriously doubt that McKinley listens to KFI.
He saw the video. No doubt about it. And the disturbing thing is that even after he saw the video, he still made those callous remarks about Kelly’s facial and head injuries.
The DA himself even said that the video was disturbing to watch. And yet McKinley had no problems whatsoever. What a psychopath. No wonder he hired Jay Cicinelli.
bottom line is they (the entire precinct) viewed this video and talked about it, some laughed and very few bummed on it. Whom ever was in charged during the writings of the reports and the re writings of the reports should be promptly fired! All the grunts who say and do nothing are just as complicit.
City council (I mean all of them) has had almost 4 months to make this right, to mend the broken fences, to regain some trust within the citizens and has failed miserably (and saying miserably is being nice) they all should be told this (I know some have gone up to speak their mind) time and time again so that it gets through their thick skulls. Chris, Tony and all the volunteers should get a big pat on the back! Viv la Re-Call! Viva la Re-Call!
We all are Kelly Thomas, we all are.
You are correct about the taser comment. I think Mr. Thompson was pointing out the peculiar fact that things played out like a script had been written.
9C1 & Fed up it was nice to meet you today.
you too mainjet!
aw darn, if McKinley is recalled from fullerton’s city council, then who on this council will approve our city continue funding Rusty Kennedy’s Orange County Human Relations Commission? We remember Rusty when in the heat of public indignation over the council and police department’s obfuscation of evidence at last month’s Fullerton city council meeting, good old Rusty kindly met McKinley’s eyes and highly recommended Gennaco be hired to do an “independent” ivestigation into fullerton police dept.’s brutality towards the public. If McKinley is recalled , maybe rusty will give him his old job serving on the Orange county Human Relations Commission’s board
Rusty was bought and paid for a long time ago.
Yes, that is obvious. but why do we, the tax payers, have to annually buy rusty a six figure salary so he may continue colluding with corrupt government officials?
I think this year may be Rusty’s last on the public dime.
I’ m already working on the paper trail that leads to the house on malvern
Oh for fuck’s sake. I have now heard it all
McKinley was communicating with trolls on here.
LOL
another friend of the fullerton observer whose username should be rocks in the head or dick cabeza
of course they are FPD on here. I can tell by reading their comments they are FPD talking shit -Thinkin their words are going to manipulate-maybe in nazi germany, not here
So you don’t think some of the trolls on here are FPD employees? I do. Of course I have evidence, too.
9c1 I believe you passed me a few times.
I was directly behind the traffic signal closest to FPD with a blue flannel. Shaved head
Can’t wait for the council meeting…I thought it was over the top when dick told everybody to “SHUT UP”. I bet they could make a movie out of this…..
The old poop. Thak would be great recall propaganda if 3 sheets makes it into a rap
shhh shhh shut up, shhh shhhh shut up
Merijoe, you crack me up. I loved how at the meeting when Dick was telling everyone to shut up, McKinely (I think) was trying to get him to shut up. It was hilarious!
There will be movies, books, documentaries, tv shows. And the good citizens of Fullerton who courageously keep showing up, speaking out, and standing up for justice will be seen by all for the Heroes they are. They are the voice for Kelly.
All the above = Advanced Citizenship.
Can’t get that in most other countries.
Next thing we’ll hear is the trolls were posting their inflammatory, disruptive comments under McKinley’s direct orders
lol
🙂
And someone acting like that would surprise who?
please, explain to us, the readers of this blog, why you defend rusty
Do you really think this doesn’t go on? Paid trolls are a fact of life in today’s internet. It’s ubiquitous, like lobbying.
I think some of you are selling the FBI a little short. The mere fact they came into this investigation before the DA filed on those two cops speaks volumns. That does not usually happen in most cases. They come into many investigation after the state or county has had a chance to do their investigation or a not guilty verdict is rendered.
Most of us remember Rodney King. Those cops were acquitted, the Feds filed civil rights violations and got convictions.
Just because the DA doesn’t think he can get a conviction on the remaining four cops, doesn’t mean the Feds will take the same attitude.
Be patient folks, the resolve many of you have shown in supporting the family of the victim and ridding FPD of corrupt cops, and the city of corrupt politicians is beyond remarkable.
Those involved have accomplished much since July. BE PROUD and stay focused, your doing a hell of a job.
Exactly my point………
If I recall, the officers who shot the (2) folks on the bridge in New Orleans were given a pass by the state but the Feds weren’t as kind. They were convicted on Civil Rights violations and are facing some serious jail time. The FBI was undetered by no charges being brought in New Orleans.
I think the FBI are here and they are vigorously snooping around the FPD. I’ll bet there is other little secrets that will be dredged up. I told someone this same thing at the protest today. Be patient and I think there will be more charges filed for those who we know and those we possibly do not know.
Stay focused as the poster suggests.
Also, great to see 9c1copcar and Miss Notre Dame. Always a pleasure my friends……….
yo moron!
yuppers! those nopd coppers got their clocks cleaned by the feds!
ours as well monsieur!
Is the famous ACU? Welcome to my home town. We have been hoping that you would weigh in.
Check the IP address and see if there any hits from the FPD office.
AntiCorruption good point!
If you recall, the local prosecution of the NOPD cops flopped. But when the Feds got involved?
Justice was served.
If all 6 cops plus a supervisor, watch commander, etc, were allowed to watch the video in order to write their reports, they in fact did witness a murder. Aren’t they legally required to report such a crime? How about excessive use of force? Did they report that? Did the person(s) who operated the camera to zoom, pan, tilt report the crime they witnessed? Too few people charged here. Too few.
Yes. All that happened. The DA got tough alright, to the least extent he had to.
Some people may actually feel sorry for the dumb clown Ramos. I understand but do not agree.
Cicinelli acted like a hit man, and that suggest: he was a psychopath; or, he was instructed to eliminate Kelly.
the da is all smoke and no fire!
You said it.
Maybe not.
All the nay sayers said there would never be charges and it would get swept under the rug.
Hasn’t happened yet.
If it does, then there are Federal and Civil suits to file.
I hope admin is keeping all posts because they may prove useful at some point to see what information trolls were posting here. It looks like some of them want to prove how much they know and if you look at the pattern you can see how what they are posting changed as they were made privy to information that they should not have known. Going from no one will be charged to two will be charged–the trolls speculation became more specific over time until right before the announcement of the charges and then a lot of “see I told you what would happen.” So keep a record of that because I promise you, all of this will be looked at eventually, if not by authorities than someone who will be writing about it. The case is significant from a number of standpoints besides law and police brutality; it also brings up the plight of the mentally ill, homeless people, and grassroots organizing, and community development.
We keep everything.
i save all of these posts in a kelly file for just that purpose.
“After The Times wrote about the beating Lim described, a federal prosecutor subpoenaed the newspaper for information that would identify two anonymous commenters on The Times’ website who claimed they came across incidents of deputy brutality, allegations unrelated to the Lim incident.
One commenter described “brutal beatings of prisoners on a daily basis” at the jail ward of the Los Angeles County-USC Hospital. The other, a self-described emergency medical services provider, recalled frequently being called to jail facilities to “pick up the sheriff’s assault victims.”
In the subpoena, the prosecutor indicated the information was needed for “an official investigation being conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation” and ordered that it be delivered to a grand jury that was scheduled to convene in connection with the criminal probe at the federal courthouse in Los Angeles in July.
To ensure subpoena power isn’t abused, federal regulations require that subpoenas issued to news organizations be personally authorized by U.S. Atty. Gen. Eric Holder.
Attorneys for The Times did not reveal the commenters’ IP addresses, citing, among other reasons, federal regulations that limit subpoenas to the press. Prosecutors later withdrew the subpoena.”
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fbi-jails-20110925,0,5783106.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fnews%2Flocal+%28L.A.+Times+-+California+%7C+Local+News%29
CAL. PEN. CODE § 182 : California Code – Section 182
Search CAL. PEN. CODE § 182 : California Code – Section 182
Search by Keyword or Citation
(a)If two or more persons conspire:
(1)To commit any crime.
(2)Falsely and maliciously to indict another for any crime, or to procure another to be charged or arrested for any crime.
(3)Falsely to move or maintain any suit, action, or proceeding.
(4)To cheat and defraud any person of any property, by any means which are in themselves criminal, or to obtain money or property by false pretenses or by false promises with fraudulent intent not to perform those promises.
(5)To commit any act injurious to the public health, to public morals, or to pervert or obstruct justice, or the due administration of the laws.
(6)To commit any crime against the person of the President or Vice President of the United States, the Governor of any state or territory, any United States justice or judge, or the secretary of any of the executive departments of the United States.
They are punishable as follows:
When they conspire to commit any crime against the person of any official specified in paragraph (6), they are guilty of a felony and are punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for five, seven, or nine years.
When they conspire to commit any other felony, they shall be punishable in the same manner and to the same extent as is provided for the punishment of that felony. If the felony is one for which different punishments are prescribed for different degrees, the jury or court which finds the defendant guilty thereof shall determine the degree of the felony the defendant conspired to commit. If the degree is not so determined, the punishment for conspiracy to commit the felony shall be that prescribed for the lesser degree, except in the case of conspiracy to commit murder, in which case the punishment shall be that prescribed for murder in the first degree.
If the felony is conspiracy to commit two or more felonies which have different punishments and the commission of those felonies constitute but one offense of conspiracy, the penalty shall be that prescribed for the felony which has the greater maximum term.
When they conspire to do an act described in paragraph (4), they shall be punishable by imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
When they conspire to do any of the other acts described in this section, they shall be punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or in the state prison, or by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine. When they receive a felony conviction for conspiring to commit identity theft, as defined in Section 530.5, the court may impose a fine of up to twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000).
All cases of conspiracy may be prosecuted and tried in the superior court of any county in which any overt act tending to effect the conspiracy shall be done.
(b)Upon a trial for conspiracy, in a case where an overt act is necessary to constitute the offense, the defendant cannot be convicted unless one or more overt acts are expressly alleged in the indictment or information, nor unless one of the acts alleged is proved; but other overt acts not alleged may be given in evidence.
IMO it is naive to believe that information was not shared between County investigators and select Fullerton executives in the interest of municipal damage control. The DA’s office has a big stake in what occurs in Fullerton. When asked at the press conference whether he thinks disciplinary action should be taken against the 4 Fullerton cops who weren’t charged he conveniently sidestepped the question. Although during one previous interview when asked about the Fullerton 6 being allowed to view the video tape of the beating PRIOR to writing their reports – he said his office preferred that cops NOT view videos of altercations that they are involved in. The fact that the Fullerton PD executives allowed this was flat out wrong. Keep a close eye on how this case is prosecuted. Charging criminals is one thing. Prosecuting vigorously and working to get quality convictions through sound legal stategies is quite another. Stay vigilant.
Good words. Actually, I think the best words.
Stay vigilant.
Does anyone know how the recall is doing?
I heard something in the vicinity of 10.000 signatures are needed and that 12,000+ are expected to be collected.
…the recall campaign is doing very well with collecting Fullerton registered voters signatures thus far. More information on the actual number of signatures collected should be available this week.
Just me, I agree vigilance to the end.
Oh please, anonymous.
I myself predicted “cops 3-6 will skate, 1-2 will get charged.
I suppose I’m working for McKinley/OCDA as well?
Where you see conspiracy, others see common sense.
Maybe you should be on the Fullerton City Council. Looks like you’re qualified.
Good one, Fullerton Harpoon! Besides, there was a different tone to some of the posts that went beyond speculation and into detail.
I’d loved for you to have said that to Ron Thomas’s face in front of everyone.
I get the impression that Kelly had already been through several minutes of trying to follow instructions perfectly without success with an angry officer standing over him yelling and threatening him. Keep in mind that when the officer rolled up, he wasn’t doing anything wrong. Just sitting tghere. The “start punching dude” sounds more like someone who was resigned to his fate, finally giving up after trying to get his hands and legs exactly right. Furthermore, the scenario also presents as the officer deliberately trying to get a rise out of him, and frankly that statement is fairly mild after the bullying and threats. Last, so what? It’s not okay for an officer to hit someone even if they say something like that. There was no physical threat to the officer in those words. At all. I suspect that Kelly was going to get a beating that night no matter what he did but they were trying to get a rise out of him in order to justify it, possibly for the 150 witnesses.
And that is why we protest,recall and fight for what is right. Having 2 POS arrested is just a start,this goes very deep and all involved know their days of tyranny,manipulation,intimidation,abuse and murder are over. We are the voice of Kelly Thomas.
I agree wholeheartedly and would like to add that the transcripts also state that Manny Ramos didn’t start punching, he instead started swinging a billy club on an unarmed Kelly Thomas.
I don’t know why this gets to me–certainly there is enough that is horrifying about the whole thing–but the detail about him not even having on a shirt just gets me in the gut. I think it has to do with his extreme vulnerability in the face of that kind of brutality.
so username rocks, I bet sometimes you wish you could bitch slap common sense into those bloggers whose opinions conflict with your loyalties
I originally predicted that about two FPD officers would be made “patsies” for this killing, and that one or more of their superiors had engineered it long in advance. I see a conspiracy, but I see it long before the killing, whereas everyone else looks at what has happened since the killing. Under my theory, two or more of the uncharged officers went into the attack with the knowledge of what would happen, and they were careful to avoid doing anything that would subject themselves to charges of “excess force.” [It is analogous to the behavior of French Poodles during wars: they manipulated the less-intelligent dogs to go out into the most dangerous situations, and be at risk.]
For the latino officer’s sake, I hope that he does not share his defense attorney with Officer Cicinelli. And I am not disparaging Officer Cicinelli, by the way. And I hope he does not fall for the “sucker play” of taking the Fifth Amendment; when a criminal defense attorney has an innocent client, and has betrayed his interest for whatever reason and wants to help a codefendant or the prosecution, his easiest “con” on the client is to deter the criminal defendant from filing a written answer that contains his factual contentions and “allocutions”, and then he persuades him to “take the Fifth” and not testify, so that he looks guilty to a jury for not testifying, and the prosecution’s case can go unrebutted.
I think it really is a “tragedy for the two officers”, as Mayor Jones said. They got coerced into committing crimes of brutality against Kelly Thomas, and now will be used as scapegoats… just as long as they can collude with the Ramos’s defense counsel to con his client into harming his own interest, by not revealing the answers to the obvious, painful questions.
That being said, ordinarily a public prosecutor would criminally prosecute any person who restrains or immobilizes another person, so that a third person can brutalize the restrained person. That is bread-and-butter basic. The prosecution has enough to go after “one or more of the Other Four”, and has not. This is another “marker” that Rackauckas is affirmatively helping to cover up a conspiracy “ante quo”. I have lost my respect for him, as a result of is failure to prosecute the crime of “false imprisonment” against “one or more of the Other Four”.
So, I say: the engineers of the conspiracy to kill Kelly have been careful to filter the information which has gone to Councilmember McKinley, in order to give him plausible deniability.
This is the first time in my life, after many forensic investigations, that I have seen collusion to commit a crime for reasons other than money. It is the first time that I cannot advise people to “follow the money trail”, in order to solve it. But I definitely see a conspiracy; it is never “common sense” to knowingly and willfully fail to charge someone with a crime of which one is aware, such as immobilizing someone, pursuant to a prior conspiracy, so that they can be brutalized by a junior cop who is afraid, due to his precarious status as a racial minority, to “not follow orders”.
The daily countdown of the worstest of the finest.
Hey there 9c1copcar, FEDUP, merijoe, JT and Everyone! In Utah this weekend visiting my son. This was the first protest I missed since I became involved in early August.
I recall McKinley stating that he was CERTAIN there were only 2 cops involved in the beating and that THERE IS NO WAY 6 people can beat on a person at the same time. WHAT A “TAINT!”
Hope that all is well you mi amigo Wrong Guy. The protest today was most satisfactory and rocked the house as usual. Look forward to seeing you and your family next week!
THE CORRUPTION AND EVIL IS WIDESPREAD. I PRAY THAT THE KELLY THOMAS REACHS INTO ALL COMMUNITIES AND INSPIRES THE CITIZENS TO SUSTAIN THEIR SURVIVAL AGAINST THESE BEASTS.
The bosses will stop the recall from going forward.
What ar they going to do, declare martial law?
This can’t be stopped.
This don’t apply to the FPD. The fix is in.
There are some 800,000+ police in the United States.
The above stats, over how much time I don’t know, show a police failure rate of 0.00002875%
I can’t even get that much in interest from my bank.
The DA stated that no deals would be made with the two sacrificial jackasses. I suspect that the DA does not want these animals giving up other animal cops. These bastards must have many crimes to report which could create further shake ups in the FPD.
The DAs in too much trouble as is. The DA was ordered to drop this, but the media coverage is being fueled by the increasing and unrelenting public out cry.
Merijoe would you post that petition you emailed me this morning ibm these boards please??? Thanks!!!! 🙂
Thanks FEDUPWITHMORONS for making this happen and bringing it to our attention. I encourage all others to sign this petition to let congress know that we too are FEDUPWITHMORONS just standing by and doing nothing to help their fellow human beings whilst rogue cops beat people senseless. Do the right thing and we’ll all be happier.
yeah – its http://www.petition2congress.com/4898/kelly-thomas-law/view/
its not about making excessive force illegal-that already illegal, what it is is a petition to have a bill that will make it illegal for a cop to stand around eating a donut while another cop is beating someone whether or not its for cirminal intent or not
as a matter of fact if a cop doesnt intervene he can get charged with the same crime as the initial guy ie ramos
…as it should be.
Thank you for that.
I felt it an honor to sign the petition and send the emails as well.
pass it on-thanks
Just signed. Thanks!!!!
FULLERTON LOVER,
Nice to have met you today.
The pleasure was all mine sir.
Thanks for the link to this website did not know it existed. I signed a few petitions.
I learn so much from the FFF site. thanks people.
Maybe Fullerton will survive after all. I may not move away.
this is new courtesy of Lake Foret/Irvine Sen/Assemblyman John Campbell/Don Wagner-Ive been screaming to Wagner to DO SOMETHING-I have an appt to see Wahner face to face-I am going to bring up that fur- cock-tan police bill of rights-ask if that can be ammended, who knows-they may get sick of me showing up and calling and emailing
fullerton lover-did you see me today-had on the yellow shirt and carried my sign (yellow also)
Sorry merijoe I didn’t. I absolutely LOVE your spirit and do look forward to meeting you next Saturday if you can make it back. I also hope that we can arrange for a reunion of Kelly’s Army when all is said and done.
ok next week for sure
I have an idea for a new petition. It may get some upset. I am a teamster for over forty years in the private sector. I am pro union. But, the abuses that the cop unions are endless and far reaching. I suggest we start a petition to weaken collective bargaining rights for cops. I said it. Now I have to watch my back. On second thought the cops don’t have to wait until you have your back to them. The cops will butcher you in broad daylight with an audience of their peers and the cameras rolling in high-def with a passionate frenzy.
Let’s remove collective bargaining rights for cops.
yeah, they might taser your ass for that-multiple times
Wally, as union guy you know that the only power a union really has is the threat of a strike. In the case of the cops it is illegal for them to strike and all these guys think about after they get rid of the hard-on carrying a gun gives them is their precious pension.So they ain’t striking for fear of not being able to get out and move to Idaho with all their buddies. Collective bargaining is shit, all it means is they ask for something. Nothing is promised by collective bargaining.The problem is they get everything they ask for. The problem lies with the City, shit everyone who reads this blog would take a cop type pension if it was offered. They always give cops what they want no matter if they belong to a union or if they all joined the Shriners and drove up to City Hall in those little cars . City council is going to kiss their ass and praise them for keeping the crack heads from drinking out of the Baptismal Fount at St. Mary’s.The only way to fix this crap is to get people on the City council that will stand up to these whiners.They can have a union,They can beg for anything they want that’s their business but when they ask for more the people that are in charge just have to say “NO” until that happens nothing is going to change. Christ this is a town that elected and re-elected Julie Sa a vocabulary challenged nomad that didn’t live in Fullerton. The union is the least of your problems, fix the pricks that are giving the town away.
Not true Pat now that all the excess money is gone. Many police unions and cities can’t come to an agreement and are going to impasse and arbitration. Negotiations have changed, which is expected. Pensions changing to the 2% at 50 for new employees and pay staying the same or some cuts depending on city finances.
It’s crazy though with all the excess money over the last 10-15 years in numerous cities, councils wasted so much money on everything. If they would have saved the money almost every city would be great financially right now. Almost every city in the PERS system has been super funded for years and years, paying nothing for the retirement portions of their employees. If they would have saved just that, which was what they should have done, they would have plenty of money for employee pensions now. If they only knew. Times have changed.
104 Wally. In Fullerton Collective bargaining is all Closed Session.
We do not see the Councilmen doing a quid pro quo
I’m curious – I wonder if FPD has told the four cops that didn’t get charged, to avoid the protest area while on duty.
I dont think theyre back at work yet- still on paid leave
Kenton Hampton, for one, has other,outstanding issues.
Whatever happens he is finished. Good riddance.
No I mean once they’re back?
I know they’re still on paid leave until the investigations are over.
wonder if they will dare come back?
I remember that caption picture of McKinley looking tough with the three cops in the background. He used that in one of his mailers when running for city council. He was obviously trying to give the impression of a tough guy. Talk about backfire, what an idiot.
Please do you think these bums are not coming back? They have to play the game and then do a disability and live it up.
Great post and good comments, but the point is missed. I am not concerned over who saw the city “video” and acted upon it (except if they lied about it afterwards). I am concerned about those who could have demanded to see the city video and did not demand to see it.
I think that we ae all in agreement that Jones and Bankhead abrogated their authority to the City Attorney to ignore their duties as watchdogs of the city in order to maintain an ignorance that would protect their personal liabilities. But after innitial protests by Whitaker and Quirk, we have not seen those two make noise to demand to view the facts and to take their positions as movers and shakers either.
Let McKinley (McKinney?) be McKinley. His position is pegged anyway.
One of my concerns is that McKinley saw the video when his colleagues were denied that opportunity to really see what happened. The excuse that the council is an appeals board was bullshit.
The main point i was trying to make was that I suspect McKinley was part of a damage control strategy that would sacrifice a couple of cops for the greater good, and that would, fortuitously help sweep a lot of ugly business under the rug.
Of course it’s waaaay to late for that now.
It warms my heart to see that my fellow Californians are still fighting the good fight for Kelly. May his death not be in vain.
I’m on a 3 week road trip spanning many states. Every chance I get, I play the video from my phone to anyone who will listen and engage with him/her on how corrupt and rotten to the core our government is.
I cannot tell you how many young decent black and brown men have told me and my husband over and over again the BS, the lies, the stealing of stuff from their car and nothing gets done. Many of them have told me that they dared not petition their government as they felt no one would listen to them.
I’ve told all of them, if you do not take a stand now, there will be no one to take a stand for you. I asked many of them point blank, do you honestly think for one minute your ancestors going back to the wild west would ever ever put up with this crap?
The line has been drawn in the sand ladies and gentleman, government has overstepped it’s boundaries and needs to be put into place.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of tyrants (paraphasing a great quote from one of our founding fathers).
Fullerton folks, we’re watching you. Stay focused and stay on track. This could be the shot that was heard round the world.
Police abuse is everywhere. I am in my sixties. I am a tax payer since my teens and I have had negative experiences with corrupt cops. I grew up in Boston Ma and believe me my city and state are compromised since the pilgrims were thrown out of England. Possibly you folks in Fullerton have a chance. Replace the bums on the city council and then eliminate the police force and rebuild your community. This may be your only opportunity before the crooks derail your movement. The key is your police force they are training for riots in preparation for managing dissension in the streets.
They are not going away. There’s too much money and power here for them and they want it all. GOOD LUCK
Does everyone think we have forgotten about that $900 grand offer that was made to Ron Thomas in the beginning? how no one seems to know who ok’d that offer? seems to me thats being swept under the rug, right in front of us -doesnt this bother any of the other councilmembers , including Quirk and Whittaker?
nobody’s said a word about this
just “forget it” -right? nope, not going to
Ask Ron Thomas about it? Ron seems to be answer all questions.
Money- I read that as sarcasm so I will answer you the same way- Mr Thomas keeps getting the run around from all these clowns regarding this to this day
its always, “wasnt me” or “dont know how that happened”
so what happened for real? why is this being silenced? no Im not interested in “asking Ron Thomas” I want to hear what the stupid city council has to say, since this “offer” was made on taxmoney
A lot of BiPolar in this forum.. and “clones”
I never imagined one bad thing about kelly.. when faced with EVIL like THE FULLERTON POLICE DEPARTMENT.. My Heart is FULL BODHISATTVA
Not a religious man.. but this is one of my favorite songs
Alabama – Angels Among Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey0HrEvh44c
^^ Apprecia
Above everything else in life, we must maintain a constant love for each other.
How about you post what I said immediately afterwards-before anyone had even reacted to that post?
I specifically said that was “how some maggot defense attorney is going to present it to a jury”.
Where did you say that in your post where you accused Kelly of being “lippy” after he was threatened by Ramos.
Your post: http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2011/those-other-cops-and-the-code-of-silence/#comment-60849
…I sure don’t see that.
scroll down, he said it, i had the conv w/him..
#139 by My Username Rocks on September 22, 2011
However what I just said is how some maggot defense attorney is going to present it to a jury.
ReplyQuote
#140 by still love fullerton on September 22, 2011
i see your point
why are ppl turning on each other now??
There but for the grace of G*d go any of us.
If I’m ever in trouble I’ll crawl under the nearest rock and find the biggest, baddest slimey white maggot lawyer I can find.
Give the future jurors some credit. The final decision is theirs.
JEFFREY-You so full of it you about to bust wide open.cop ha undercover ha. ok copa.
uh, Jeffrey-no, there by the grace of G-d doesnt go me- I would not beat a man to death for nothing especially as he cried out for mercy
Whale hole, Sleaze bucket, horse fece defense attorney or not, Karma rules, what goes on in the dark, comes to light- even if not right away. The only “defense” is a full confession by the perp
MUR–my response to your post was to counter what a defense attorney might present (that KT was being “lippy”) not to criticize what you said. I did not get the sense that your comment was made to indict KT or condone Ramos, in any way. Furthermore, you will never see me responding to a comment with name calling or any kind of ugliness because I think it diminishes the argument and detracts from what we are doing here–at least what I am doing here is hoping to bring justice for Kelly Thomas, which ultimately is justice for all. I also worry that it brings us down to a level that we are hopefully above but certainly want to rise above. Some people who might get involved or whose eyes will at least be opened might be turned off by what looks like pettiness and I think we lose something when that happens. I’m not going to make fun of the officers’ appearance, for instance, because frankly, whether attractive or unattractive, what they did was wrong. Some people have already made comments about KT’s appearance, that he was dirty and unkempt, smelly, or whatever, and I would say the same thing–it doesn’t matter. He is no less valuable as a human being than if he had been well dressed and well groomed, and this is an important point because I think part of the issue here is that because he was what has been described as “an undesirable” some people will see him as less valuable, will de-humanize him, will be less likely to express concern about what happened to him than if he was “a desirable.” Fat, skinny, attractive, unattractive, black, white, short, tall, does not matter–what happened to KT was wrong, and what the police officers did to him was wrong.
damn.. that sucks 🙂 .. ^^unfair..
sry bout that.. glad you were here to clear it up
/peace
A better question would be, why did I just engage an obvious troll.
I heard an excellent suggestion today at the protest. The idea was to name one of the streets that the Fullerton Police Department is located on from “Highland” to “Kelly Thomas”.
This will ensure that any and all Fullerton police officers will never forget just who Kelly Thomas was…WE are Kelly Thomas.
That would be a fitting thing to do after all the legal processes are done.
Love that idea!
Still Love Fullerton:
I went back to the conversation in question and it was TNZ that quoted my above remark in the R-E-S-P-E-C-T blog.
Now he comes in here and reposts it as Anonymous.
Go figure.
Lol u r everywhere. I just read through this whole post, post by post. I get to the last two and there is my imposter.
Hello Mr Imposter. You are up early this morning.
Reality Is most likely McKinley
I’ve heard innuendo that Ramos’s wife had tried in the past to contact the Fullerton PD to have Meanny Ramos cited for domestic violence and that her complaint fell on deaf ears?
She was then forced to contact the neighboring Placentia PD to try and have them act to have Meanny arrested or cited. They apparently have since divorced.
Fullerton lover,
I’ve been wondering about that for a while now…do these cops have families? Especially Ramos and Cicinelli. I didn’t know all this about Ramos (the threat he made against Kelly), but I had been wondering about Jay Cicinelli’s family for a while now. If he has kids, I’d be VERY afraid for their safety. Just imagine how abusive he would be to them. When you see the horrific picture of Kelly Thomas in the hospital, and you hear and read about how he kept beating Kelly with the taser even after he was unconscious, that shows how incredibly violent he is.
Just imagine what that psychopath would have been like at home. And you know that trying to get him arrested for spousal or child abuse by the FPD would be nearly impossible.
I mean, when you look at the picture of Kelly Thomas, how could a human being come home and look his family in the eyes after having done that to someone??
I live for the smile in my children’s eyes. I can’t imagine what my life would be without that joy.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
-Juvenal-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%3F
fullerton, dv laws don’t apply to corrupt cops. if they did, there’d be a lot of out of work dirtbags.
geesh, ty..
so many idiot trolls now
It’s obvious that no justice will be sought by the DA and the noise from the feds is “deafening.” When Fullerton cops start getting fragged for the murder of Kelly Thomas and Long Beach cops start getting fragged for the murder of Douglas Zerby, SBSD picked off for the murder of Allen Kephart, THEN will justice be sought?
The gall of Fullerton cops to ticket protestors for honking and deploying intimidation techniques such as taking down plate numbers is telling. They seem to be begging for a blood bath.
I would guess there are at least 500 prior service and retired law enforcement one pubic hair away from deploying.
The DA and feds REALLY NEED TO GET REAL!
Definitely.. it will make the new recruits ask “Who was Kelly Thomas”
Some guy McKinley taught us to MURDER AND TORTURE.. but thankfully the good citizens of Fullerton showed INCREDIBLE HEART AND COURAGE and HEALED US..
I have horrible anger in me from childhood beatings and abandonment and really have trouble to not wish incredible harm on every piece of flesh that inhabits that SHITFACE PIECE OF HELL called FPD headquarters..
.. the whole place needs destroyed as a monument to the HORROR THAT GREW THERE
When did the taking down of license plates occur?
Further, I wonder how they’ll react if approached and asked what the problem is, if observed taking my vehicle info down.
Because I fully plan to do this and ill br audio recording the convo, though not openly.
HONEST.. email the blog owners.. this thing IS BROKE
it needs PASSWORDS and a privacy policy
ON the day they issued tickets for horn honking
the guy in the big black 4×4 was videotaping the pigs writing down license plates.. SO the fat fucking union president .. some fat fuck.. pulled him over and gave him a citation for his horn..
Fullerton police headquarters deserves a few sorties from a local air force base
“Excuse me officer, I noticed you taking down plate numbers-mine being one of them. Is there a problem?” I’ll move if need be.”
What’s he gonna do or say? Especially knowing that the exchange might be being recorded on someone’s cell.
If any of you ever imagined writing Hollywood for anything
DO IT NOW
WE NEED ALL THE SUPPORT WE CAN GET
Write Oprah? fuck I don’t know…
but like I said earlier
Killer cops need PUT DOWN AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.. and those FOUR with no charges KNOW THEY ARE MURDERERS
DO YOU WANT THEM TO PULL YOU OVER IN THE DARK?
they have incredible power.. look at the dolts they worked so hard to get elected in fullerton
Wall street peaceful protest? Never seen the orange net tactic before. Looks like the cop in the white wasn’t happy with the refusal to disperse. Everyone has video cameras too. Pretty cool video effects though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ05rWx1pig&feature=youtube_gdata_player
GM Thompson: Who would have instructed Cicinelli to “eliminate” Kelly?
This is from today’s China Daily News.
I’ll let you draw your own conclusions.
============================
ZHENGZHOU – Six local officials have been punished after a tourist traveling to Beijing was mistaken as a petitioner, brutally beaten and brought back to his home province, authorities said on Saturday.
A district official in the city of Luoyang, Henan province, also visited the victim, Zhao Zhifei, at home and apologized, after the incident triggered an outpouring of anger on the Internet over the treatment of petitioners.
Zhao was staying in a hotel close to the State Bureau for Letters and Calls, the country’s top complaint hearing office, on the night of Sept 15. A group of people barged into his hotel room and dragged him, along with three petitioners from Henan, to a van headed for Luoyang.
Zhao was brutally beaten on the way back to Luoyang, officials said. Newspaper reports published a picture of an unconscious Zhao in rags lying by the roadside in Luoyang.
Local authorities on Saturday said people from a Beijing security firm commissioned by the local letters and calls offices in Luoyang were responsible for the beating.
Yang Qi, the letters and calls office head, was removed from his post. Another official, Dong Xianwei, was suspended from work, while four others received warnings, authorities said.
In China, the department for letters and calls at various levels functions as a place to collect and report public grievances.
Petitioners who feel their complaints are not listened to at grass-roots offices sometimes march to Beijing to file their complaints.
Cases of petitioners being rounded up and brought back to their home provinces have been frequently reported by local media.
In January, Premier Wen Jiabao paid a visit to the State Bureau for Letters and Calls and told officials to be responsible and dedicated to addressing people’s complaints, and act as a channel for the public to criticize and supervise the government.
Wen was the first Chinese premier to visit the state complaints bureau to have face-to-face communication with petitioners.
Wen told the bureau’s workers to respond to complaints lawfully and with ardor to neutralize the petitioners’ negative emotions, such as depression, and to better reflect their will.
Jeffrey C. What’s your point?
The point is that we are exercising our civil rights and not getting dragged off into the dark while doing so.
There are a few vocal individuals that make it sound like our overall position is one that is weak and ineffectual because we are following due process.
I don’t see the city council, the police department or anyone else hiring thugs to beat us up while exercising those rights.
I just wanted to make that point.
I wouldnt put anything past this FPD slappy clownhouse- what do they care about Civil rights?
THIS MCKILLER GUY HAS A BLACK HEART I MEAN LOOK AT HIS FACE. THIS GUY LOOK,S LIKE SHIT SORRY SHIT (:( HE,S A REAL PEACE OF WORK.I JUST CAN,T FINE THE WORDS -SOURPUSS-SOULLESS-DARKMATTER-MUDERMUG-OUG
Jeffery, <i<as far as we know no one has been dragged off in the dark for exercising their civil rights.
You never know.
There was an incident a few years ago, where a cop drove up to a young guy who was parked in a parking lot. The guy had a video camera mounted inside his car and was recording the cop, and the cop obviously didn’t like that. He pulled him out of the car and went on a tirade threatening the guy and screaming at him, asking him “Do you want to see what a cop can do, boy?!” He threatened that he could easily make things up and he’d have his car towed and have him in jail by the end of the night.
The guy, who was really just a kid in his early 20’s, was understandably terrified. And if he hadn’t started kissing up to the cop, who knows what would have happened to him. The cop probably would have beat him up or maybe even killed him, and then made up all sorts of things to try to justify it or cover it up. Maybe even planted a weapon. Thank God he had the video recording. That cop was eventually fired. But that isn’t enough.
Do a search for it on Google. This is the kind of mentality cops have. I never would have believed all this until what happened to Kelly Thomas. But there are a LOT of corrupt cops out there. And yes, I think sometimes people DO indeed disappear sometimes…and possibly because they ran into the wrong cop.
One of my friends (an old high school friend) is married to a cop. I told her about the Kelly Thomas incident and she is glad that the cops were charged. I told her that before all this, I would have thought that most cops were basically good and there were only some bad ones. Like probalby 90 percent of them are good and do their job professionally and put their lives on the line to protect us. But NOW, I say it’s probably more like 70 percent of cops are good, and 30 percent are corrupt. And that’s being optimistic. It’s probably even worse than that.
Even she agreed with my percentage! Even a cop’s wife knows how many bad cops are out there!
The only way we’re going to stop this is if the penalties for police misconduct are so severe that cops are literally TERRIFIED of getting caught abusing their power. And the penalty for excessive force should be mandatory…execution.
Mmmmmmmmmmm……………………..
I have an ethical problem with the death penalty.
In 1990 I was not in the financial position I’m in now. That is to say I was stone cold broke. I became a boomerang for awhile. Moved back in with my parents in Delray Beach, Fl. No money, no job, no idea what I was going to do.
One night I borrowed my Father’s bike and decided to ride to the beach, about 5 miles away. What I didn’t know at the time was the part of the community I was living in and the part I wanted to go to was separated by an area referred to as ‘the wrong part of town’. You had to ride through there to get to the beach and I was riding the bicycle at 3 a.m. in the morning.
I was stopped by a female police officer who wanted to know why someone like me was there. We had a nice conversation. She asked if I could prove my story about living in another country was true, in a good way, as you would if you were friends just talking. I pulled out my foreign dirver’s license and showed it to her. She smiled and said she was impressed. At this time the conversation had taken about 10 minutes and two bored people, in the middle of the night, were enjoying themselves.
Just then we heard another patrol car stop and we glanced back saw another officer getting out of his car. We went back to our conversation.
The next thing I knew I found myself on the ground. The 2nd officer had hit me in the back of the head with his night stick just for fun. His assumption was that anyone in that part of town was free fodder for his brutal hobby. The last thing I heard was, “Thats how you talk to “those” people”. ??? WTF!!!
The other officer didn’t do anything for a couple of minutes. I think she was in shock, but after the 2nd officer had whacked me a couple more times while on the ground, she stepped in and made him stop.
Long story short, I went home. Took photos of my injuries, went back to the police station and filed a report. Remember, I didn’t have any money. Aside from my retired parents I didn’t know anyone in the area, and was busy just trying to find work to feed myself and maybe put some money away for future dreams. There was no way I could pursue the matter.
About 5 years later I was contacted by an attorney for a young lady who had also been stopped and beaten by the same officer. He asked me if I would make myself available to testify in court. Of course I said, yes.
Before court started the attorney told me that the police attorney was convinced there were no witnesses available to testify in support of the girl’s story. They were sure they could just rip her apart on the stand and that would be that. The girl’s attorney wanted to try a subterfuge to try and avoid a trial.
They were going to have a final conference before entering the courtroom. The girl’s lawyer asked me to wait outside and watch through the windows, then, after they had entered the conference room he asked me to enter the lobby and just stand about 15 feet outside of the conference room door. I did.
The police officer and his attorney were smiling as they exited the room. The girl’s attorney walked the group over to where I was standing. He introduced me to the officer’s attorney as another victim he had forgotten to mention, and at the same time he handed the officer’s attorney a copy of the complaint I had filed with photos 5 years earlier.
The officer and his attorney stopped smiling, looked at each other, turned and walked back into the conference room. It was a civil suit and part of the settlement was that the officer resign and not seek law enforcement work again, ever.
All this just to say I personally have had experience with a bad cop. I’m not saying some aren’t out there. I’m just saying that we shouldn’t punish the good with the bad. I’m not saying things like this won’t ever happen again. I’m saying I, personally have to put myself in the shoes of the other side.
On the other side of the coin, when I was in the army I was a military policeman. After the service I was an undercover narcotics officer in Tenn. Eventually I decided I was not meant for that line of work and moved on. I have been on both sides of legal situations. Now I am an artist and small business owner. Anyone interested in the veracity of my post, well you have my name, the city, and the year. I sure anyone could pull a copy of the police report. I’m sure there is still a copy even after 21 years.
I know both sides of the arguments being made. I strive, everyday to be a good person and understand the human condition. I don’t always succeed, but that doesn’t keep me from continually trying to be a better person.
We’re not machines, whatever we do, whenever we do it, we have to just do the best we can and always remember that everyone we deal with has the same emotions, loves, flaws, good days and bad days as everyone else. I don’t, I can’t believe people are inherently evil. Even a rogue police officer.
What happened in Fullerton was tragic. We have many institutions in place to deal with it. Institutions are slow, and human passion is an all consuming buring ember that will not be delayed or denied. Due process is all that separates us from barbarism. There’s enough barbarism in the world already.
All I want is to see due process done. I don’t live in Fullerton, but we are all human beings together in this.
I’m only human myself. I try to make moderate contributions, but as a human, sometimes my posts are a bit biased. I just don’t want to see any more damage done.
Sorry. Didn’t mean to ramble so long. There are very difficult issues being delt with here.
Great post. I agree make the penalties for crimes commited by cops double. More damaging take their pensions away from them.
The only way we’re going to stop this is if the penalties for police misconduct are so severe that cops are literally TERRIFIED of getting caught abusing their power. And the penalty for excessive force should be mandatory…execution.
I disagree these cop unions are too powerful. They own the corrupt politicians.
#65 by Steve Brow on September 24, 2011
Is the famous ACU? Welcome to my home town. We have been hoping that you would weigh in.
Yep Steve it is me. What an impressive website with lots of posters with resolve and posative convictions. I am honored.
Thought I’d come down and see if I could put a little perspective on a few issues. Seems like quite a few folks are doing a good job.
It is unbelievable what many have done in this particular situation in such a short time.
For a moment I thought I was in the City of Bell with such a turnout.
for all we know, the cop’s wife who knows there are dirty cops out there, just might be living with one of them….you just never, ever know.
exact a mondo. I always wondered about the families. especially the wives of these animals-how could they be ok with those hospital photos of Kelly? wasn’t that a red flag to any of them or did they just not care? like the wives of SS men in Nazi Germany? shows a great evilness of man
I dont know, but if it were me, I’d be out of the house with my kids, in 3 seconds
I am not surprised to see FPD issuing citations to motorists for honking their horns in support of the protest. The cops copying down license plates tells an interesting story.
It is clear the “us vs them” mentality is well underway. It is common in many police departments where they are not use to being challanged in the manner they are now. Their arrogance is showing and it will hurt them even further. Instead of showing a little restraint, they are driving the wedge even deeper between themselves and the public.
I hope those who received tickets will fight them in traffic court. Do not let the “I’ll show them” to go unchallenged. I pray the judge will see the stupidity and motive behind the tickets and dismiss them accordingly. If someone stepped up already and stopped that from going forward, that is a smart police administrator.
Do NOT provoke the police, kill them with your kindness, and be polite. If they are stupid give them all the rope they need and allow them to hang themselves with their own arrogance. Much like Officer Ramos and his peers did.
I can tell you all, that when all the officers sat down and watched the video tape together, that was clearly the start of a cover up. Unfortunately it will not stand and will come out at some point. I know it is apperant to many of you, I mean come out in court.
Do not be angry by that, use it to further prove your point. I know the attorney for the family will surely use it, if this case ever goes to civil court. I doubt that will ever happen. If it does we will see many things come out that will be embarrasing to the City and Police Department. I hope this civil case will proceed to Federal Court. A much better place to resolve such issues.
If you all don’t know the attorneys representing the officers, beware they are GOOD attorney’s who do their jobs well. They are paid well and have a personal reputation to uphold.
If the DA or FPD did a lousy job of investigating this case, those attorneys will find it and bring it out in Court. Beware, bad investigations are sometime done be design with an intended purpose.
All the more reason to be happy the FBI and Office of Independant review is doing their own investigating.
That was the point of my letter. The cover up started that night. When the supervisors settled on the “final” account they put everybody back to work.
When the whole thing started to unravel and Goodrich’s lies became palpable, I believe FPD included McKinley in the next round of strategy – which was to cut their losses with Ramos and Cicinelli and hope nobody would find out about the collusion on the reports and the blatant disregard for policy.
Thanks for your support!
The citations were annulled I think. This blog almost immediately posted information asserting that the honking citations were in violation of established court cases that decided that honking at a protest was protected free speech. Anyway, a captain shredded at least a couple of those citations pretty fast.
I don’t have confidence that the FBI are doing much. They have yet to interview key eyewitnesses.
Here’s a case of a young man in Florida with Down’s syndrome who had the shit beat out of him by cops for no reason. Of course, the name of the “officer” is not released to us plebes. http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/129820353.html
“This article no longer exists”
Guess they don’t want people to know about that one, either.
“Sorry, that article is no longer available.”
It actually says the above. Same difference, though.
http://savannahnow.com/crime/2010-06-10/tybee-island-police-chief-supervisor-suspended-3-others-resign-after-tasing#.Tn_fTOwlquI
ty
Here’s the same link again.
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/129820353.html
Worked for me.
Still doesn’t work for me. It’s probably because I’m on mobile. It’s fine, the other article link works.
“On Monday, all Taser guns deployed by Tybee police were equipped with cameras that activate when fired, Schleicher added.”
How about:
1. If they can wear personal digital recorders, they can wear mini personal cameras as well.
2. If they’re going to put cameras on the tasers, have them turn on when pulled from the holster, not just when fired.
This should be applied to all police forces. Including mandatory audio recorders, dash cams and anything else. Also, if they “forget” to turn them on, they should be fined and suspended. Maybe everything should come on automatically and have some sort of special watermark where the footage/audio cannot be tampered with, without the public’s knowledge that it has been done. Something along those lines.
As I am sitting here in my hotel room, in Utah, I have been killking time reading as many posts as I can from my tiny little crackberry. It’s a magnificent feeling experiencing the cohesiveness of everyone coming together in a “Grass Roots” fashion. I want to commend some apparent new bloggers, such as ‘Anti-Corruption Unit'(Great moniker by the way) and ‘Moron’. Welcome aboard! I cannot wait to return tonight. My plane arrives around 6:30pm and my first stop, naturally, will be the Kelly Thomas memorial site. FFFF, as many bloggers on this post have mentioned earlier, you folks are already TRUE HEROES. I cannot wait until the next protest and especially the next council meeting so I and many of you can let the obvious CORRUPTED FPD and the CHICKENSHIT THREE council members know THEY ARE GOING DOWN HARD!!! Keep up the ingenious work TONY and CHRIS!
Mr. Thompson you sound like a man of wisdom and put your points forward very well.
I do believe that some at FPD did not expect all this to happen. I can assure you that only when something happens like this do you see the results that you do now. Should I say most of the time.
Any experienced cop or police administrator at FPD who has paid attention to history of police brutality would have seen this coming. Maybe someone did and you see the results. FPD cannot undue the fact all the cops sat down together to put there thoughts down on paper.
Is there reason to believe there is a crime of preparing a false police report, YES a reasonable one based on the circumstances. I watched the DA dance around that issue.
I can assure you that at least ONE of those 6 officers knew this situation had gone too far even if he just arrived on scene. I am sorry the DA’s explanation of all that is insulting to those of us who have seen such things first hand and more than once.
If all those individual statements from the officers involved match up and pretty much all say the samething, then your conspiracy will be proven and complete.
NO ONE sees everything the same way. I am sure those 151 witness statements the DA has DO NOT match up and all say the samething. Variations are very normal in witness statements and cops are no better when it comes to a situations like this.
I have not seen these reports of course, but if those cops at the scene are ALL saying they didn’t see anything that rose to the level of excessive force and didn’t feel they needed to step in is ABSOLUTE bullshit. I am sure the DA is very much aware of the “code of silence” He experienced it first hand when his office investigated the deaths of an inmate at the Orange County jail during the Corona administration.
Looking at the photo of Kelly Thomas’s face tells us it’s BS. That is one shocking photo of this man’s face. YOU can bet the defense attorney’s will fight to keep those photo’s away from the jury, rest assure on that one. TOO compelling and shocking.
Mr.Thomas’s actions of putting his hands on his knees then back onto his head while sitting on the ground is NOT a basis to use ANY force. Ramos knew Thomas and knew what to probably expect from Kelly.
One who is trained in dealing with mentally challenged people know to expect the unexpected and if they seem confused to deal with it and understand it. Kelly was NOT a threat to their personal safety. And there is NO evidence to indicate he was.
If Kelly got scared and it clearly appears he was, that too is a given when dealing with metally challenged individuals. Trying to run from you is again not grounds to beat someone.
I also find it interesting that the officers responded to a call of cars being broken into. But no further confirmation that any cars were found burglarized after the incident. Can anyone confirm this. With all that is going on it makes one wonder if that radio call might be bogus in itself. Just a thought.
I would not be surprised if the defense attorney’s next strategy will be to ask for a change of venue and move this case out of the county.
Are you claiming to be some professional government agency? You don’t sound like it. You sound the same as an everyday poster here. Mr Thompson? 🙂
http://www.vote29.com/newmyblog/archives/tag/anticorruptionunit
Dear AntiCorruptionUnit,
It was confirmed on this website several weeks back, that the “breaking into cars” report was made in the early morning, which was many hours before the incident in question.
My theory is that a report “not of record” was made to the dispatcher, by some supervisor in the FPD who was in on the 6-month-old conspiracy to “kill Kelly”. This supervisor, I believe, received a well-meaning citizen’s or local businessman’s report — to the personal official cellular phone of some police officer who was in on the conspiracy — that Kelly was at the transit center, partially naked. The supervisor then made an oral communication to the dispatcher that there was a car break-in in process. Thus, the Dispatcher told the truth, when he or she reported that there had been a “report” of “breaking in to autos”. But it was not a report “of record”. And, as part of the conspiracy, a broadcast about breaking into cars at the transit center would be the “Code Language” which means “Kelly Thomas is at the Transit Center, and this is your chance to publicly kill him”.
It may sound “conspiratorial”, but I have asked over and over for any evidence that my version is not true. Did the Dispatcher not say there had been information or a report of a “car break-in at the Transit Center”? And it has been confirmed that no such call came to FPD headquarters, either via 911 or via the nonemergency “ground line”.
Until someone provides different or additional evidence to the contrary, my “conspiracy theory” is the only thing which explains the apparently conflicting information, and explains why certain statements were “true” — because I think that the Dispatcher really did get that “report”, but did not receive it from a straightforward, on-the-record, reporting channel.
Now I have relied on what has been publicly disclosed so far. Somebody out there please tell me if my facts are wrong.
WSH
Snow, I like the conspiracy theory since it does seem to explain inconvenient facts and actions.
However a couple of important facts remain: why assassinate Kelly publicly when it could have been done discreetly?; and why on Earth kill him at all?
The only reason to do it publicly would be to send a message to someone else. But whom? And as to the second question, you would have to believe that Kelly knew something or saw something he wasn’t supposed to see and needed to be done away with. Again, hard to see what reason anybody would have to fear Kelly in any way.
And finally the “conspiracy” has left behind two potential embarrassments – Cicinelli and Ramos – both conveniently unarmed. But the fact that Cicinelli got the slap on the wrist charge suggests he won’t talk.
The taser being deployed so close to his heart with his shirt off….how did they not see that?
Go on Reality Is impostor!!! There is only one Reality Is who belongs here. Ain’t that right, Realit Is?
What about me? Don’t I count?
I see the attention troll is looking for everyone to notice him this morning. HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT ME SOMEONE IS PRETENDING TO BE….Aww fuck it no one likes him anyway.
wow. what a loser to try and put that much effort into impersonating someones name on a blog.
So sorry, Reality ls Imposter; you FAILED!!! Hahahahaha
I like Fullerton’s style better. 🙂 peace.
(CNN) — About 80 people were arrested on the eighth day of protests in New York on Saturday, the greatest number since demonstrations started near Wall Street.
Earlier arrests in the week totaled about 20 on previous days for similar charges, according to New York City Deputy Commissioner Paul J. Browne.
The latest arrests include disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, obstructing governmental administration and assaulting a police officer, according to Browne.
The protests started September 17 in lower Manhattan and are aimed at drawing attention to the role powerful financial interests played in America’s spiraling economy.
“We’ve got a whole bunch of people sitting in Washington that can’t figure it out,” said organizer Bill Csapo.
The mission is for ” 20,000 people to flood into lower Manhattan, set up beds, kitchens, peaceful barricades and occupy Wall Street for a few months,” the official “Occupy Wall Street” website read.
By Saturday, the site had a series of updates on arrests, including the exact location of a police van holding arrestees. One was described as having a “very bad concussion, possibly life threatening” and urged participants to demand medicare care for those affected.
“It’s just letting people know that it’s going on,” Csapo said on the website. “We need to call the police and tell them to let these people go.”
CNN called police officials, but they declined to comment further on the extent of injuries or specific use of force. But descriptions by the website and some protesters present affirm the use of mace and Tasers.
One midtown resident, Ryan Alley, claims he wasn’t aware of the protests until he found himself among them. He said he was penned in by police while standing near a group of protesters, pushed against a wall and nearly arrested.
“They turned our backs, put us against the wall,” Alley said. “They’re being very aggressive … half the people here have no idea what’s going on … I’m actually very ashamed to be a New Yorker.”
One woman with bloody lips stood with her hands zip-tied behind her back.
“I wasn’t doing anything and I was punched!” she called out to spectators.
Csapo says the organization is worried about NYPD activity after nightfall.
Despite the concerns, the “resistance continues,” the group says.
“We’re occupying that square. We’re not going anywhere,” Csapo said about their new Liberty Plaza location near the former World Trade Center.
Is someone watering the flowers at the memorial?
Yes. That is taken care of.
Protect yourself FROM corrupt Cops
..this may have been posted already by someone, but I just saw it for the first time and thought it a good example of how an officer ‘demands’ respect and fortunately for this guy, he had a dash cam. I want one.
We are all one:
I just watched that video posted on CNN. I could not believe what that cop was saying.
At least he is on “un-paid leave”, unlike Fullertont’s finest.
That cop sounds like Joe Pesci in Goodfella’s. Nice mobster mentality there.
Reality, I first used the “Reality Ls” name just seeing if one could switch usernames on here. Remember? lol
I’d tried to spell “Is” with a lowercase l and s but as the username the l became L for some reason.
However I stopped after two posts and switched back to MUR
Admin, if you have evidence that some of the trolls here are FPD employees, why not out them?
yeah, inquiring minds want to know
When I watch this I can’t help but imagine this is how this cop was raised. It’s like he’s mirroring his father (or whoever raised him) while he’s flipping out here. It’s a learned behavior. This is the shit that needs to be screened out through psychological testing before giving these guys a badge and a gun. Sadly, I think this the mentality that is encouraged on the force. This is what needs to change.
additional charges need to be filed against Cicinelli. He knowingly administered deadly force to an unresponsive Kelly Thomas who was not responding or resisting when those blows where being adminitered. Those facial injuries by the admission of the DA contributed to his death.
Absolutely. He was the one that murdered Kelly. It sure looks a lot like an assassination from where I’mstanding.
$25K bail is utterly ridiculous for what he did. You get more shoplifting.
It WAS an assassination; from a witness that I spoke with yesterday, Cicinelli took his time between each blow of the butt end of the Taser onto Kelly’s face. Cicinelli very carefully and deliberately AIMED each blow. Sick BASTARD.
Dear “Justice For All”,
Officer Cicinelli may have systematically assassinated Kelly Thomas, but I would ask you to hold off from declaring judgment on him, or calling his a “Sick BASTARD”. We have not yet heard his testimony about the directions and instructions which he was given by superiors in the FPD.
I know that you think that what I am suggesting smacks of the “Nuremberg Defense”, but we really do not know what kinds of coercion Officer Cicinelli was under.
Remember: seventeen years ago this Christmas, one OCSD Deputy, Officer Scanlon, assassinated another OCSD Deputy, Officer Robbins (who happened to be black, but it was a non-issue), because Deputy Robbins had accidentally discovered that certain rogue OCSD officers were involved in the drug-running in Lake Forest. The original coroners’ (yes, more than one coroner) reports all said murder, and Sheriff Gates kept shopping, until he found a private contracting coroner who would rule it an accident.
I am not saying that you should never pronounce judgment on Officer Cicinelli. I am asking you to wait, until he has testified about whether or not he acted under orders, and identifies the person who was giving the orders.
I don’t presume that the same person gave orders to both Officer Cicinelli and to Officer Ramos. WSH
I will say it – Cici AKA Uniball is a sick bastard
And no one could “coerce ” me into kneeing a man in the thoat, tasering someone over and over and beating their head in with the same taser all while they are screaming for mercy to stop
And yes. it sounds exactly like what the Nazi dudes said on the stand to justify what they did to the jews- “we ver under orders” “it was var”
Lets say he was given “orders” for a hit-what would have happened to cyclops if he didnt do what he was told? dont you think he could have gone to someone first?
In America. you have free will to do what you want- if he was human and was given orders-he didnt have to actually carry them out-
I dont need to hear any of his lies in court- Ive see his handiwork and CiCi will be held accountable for his actions-and good
Torture
Penal Code Section 206.1 states:
Torture is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for a term of life.
Every person who, with the intent to cause cruel or extreme pain and suffering for the purpose of revenge, extortion, persuasion, or for any sadistic purpose, inflicts great bodily injury as defined in Section 12022.7 upon the person of another, is guilty of torture. The crime of torture does not require that the victim suffered pain.
What do I know? I know the power of the Dark Side!
FYI: inquiring minds,
as a search, I type in; Kelly Thomas September 25 (today’s date). It has helped somewhat in my effort to stay informed.
I asked in a earlier post if anyone is watering the flowers at the memorial….
Yes there is someone who keep the flowers watered everyday and keep the wax from the candles scraped up.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/234257166626536/
Thank you Jon
Good luck with that.
My penis is small so I became a cop to feel powerful and get turned on by carrying a weapon so I can feel like a man.
Oh really? Small penile? Imposter Jr.
I dont ever want to see Kenton Hampton on our streets, or any streets for that matter- and those who are following Mc Looser- they will have big regrets,his days are numbered.
Well you better start finding some things to fire him for. If he was disciplined for the mam case, he can’t be disciplined again. Kelly case? Maybe. Otherwise he will be back out there soon.
should be fired for false arrest and excessive force for both Quinonez and Mam cases.
He should also be prosecuted for both cases.
…there will be a couple more victims that are waiting in the on-deck circle that will be hitting Hampton so hard that the Manager will soon be forced to pull him out of the game for good.
what should we do if we see officer wolfe driving by in his police car staring us down.
Same thing you would do if you were to encounter any other wild animal that is loose on the streets; do not make eye contact and most importantly do not try to feed them.
He can’t be, because two members have already stated that McKinley is communicating with the trolls here.
That sick fuck should be behind bars for MURDER.
Justice For All:
Reality can’t be McKinley; it’s already been solidly established that the trolls are posting in an inflammatory, disruptive manner under his direct orders, and they are coordinating their efforts with him.
I’m just posting under myself and me. Not here to cause any problems or issues. Just little ol’ me. The impostors suck though.
Has Officer Albondigas (Ramos) posted bail yet?
I think Ramos is supposed to remain in jail until his defense attorney comes back from his vacation in mexico, then this attorney, who’s in no hurry to return from vacation, is supposed to ask for a reduced bail amount on monday-thats what I heard
Reality Is, you may not be McKinley but you report directly to him.
Won’t you at least admit that much?
@#182 JT. That is me. I am a male, not a female, and not a Deputy DA.
I get the creeps when I see McKinnley that look he has and the way he quitely makes notes.
You mean the Reality Impostor is Mcweenie. Right?
I don’t think MC would be in this blog. Playing golf, it’s Sunday after all.
Why do these posts seem to fall in the wrong order? My most recent McWeenie post, which I posted 2 minutes ago is way up the scroll.
fullerton has no future. corrupt police department. dumb, fat ass usless mayor who makes stupid comments like “this is a tragedy for the officers”. heavy handed city government. yall need to move to tijuana…
Reply to #202 Snow Hume:
You mention that we should all wait on Officer Cicinelli until he testifies in court. Do you have a guarantee that he is going to testify? He does not have to testify in his own behalf. He can also take a plea bargain and not have to testify. It is obvious that you have no criminal training or you would know that or alternatively, you are merely trying to mislead the good readers of the Fullertons Future blog! I would guess the latter!
Cicinelli should not have been hired. In return for his being hired, he will do anything that his bosses tell him to do. He is collecting 1 and 3/4 pays, due to his LA County disability pension.
In summary, I will bet a dollar to your donut that Officer Cicinelli does NOT testify.
LAPD pension, Paul
I wept when I watched the last City Council meeting, as each citizen came forward to speak, some who also cried. You could see the anger but there was also this deep sense of hurt, betrayal. I cried for Kelly, I cried for the people of Fullerton, I cried for all of us, really, but I also cried because of the compassion, the commitment, the courage, and the determination demonstrated by the citizens who showed up. I can’t get this case out of my mind and my heart; it has touched me deeply.
Is there somewhere I can find the city council vids?
There has to be more than just the one I’ve seen.
hello all. new to this blog, but have been reading here, lurking, whatever you want to call it. i am sure not alone in that one. this case has the interest of many, maybe even more than you realize. i am sorry to go off topic here, i am just picking the most recent to go by. i do not live in fullerton, but i am not far from there, either. i wanted to possibly make a suggestion for your protests. i have heard some mentions of facebook here, however, am not sure if you have one dedicated to the weekly protests/kelly’s army? if you do, please share. if you don’t, i think it should be made. people outside of your city may not know that these are going on weekly. it took some reading for me to know that they are still going on and i am but some 20 mins from there. i have read comments in some of the videos, people on the outside are asking why things aren’t being done…like protests and the like. i have had to mention that they are, it’s just that they are not top of the news. the reason i am saying facebook is for the mere fact that there are 700 to 800 MILLION people on there, maybe more. the fastest way to get some more people to get on the bandwagon and note that you are pushing hard for change and for things to be done, could be put on there. make it a business page that we can all “like” and take off from there. i have posted some stories about this, people are upset. people across the country, even some outside of this country. i think more people need to join you, people from surrounding cities and the like. let people know exactly where you’re at, the times, etc. you can spread the word with FB. leave on the page links to this site, additional blogs, you can upload videos there, get more opinions from others regarding these cops and the other officials, etc. if i am rambling here, i apologize, as i do that. i think you all get my drift, though. i only first heard about this case at the end of august, that’s how out of the media it was. however, i was so appalled by this story that since that time i have not been able to stop thinking about it. my heart definitely goes out to kelly and his family. everything that happened that night was so wrong and disgusting that it seriously makes me sick. sadly, not the first time it’s happened, either. the people are sick of the abuse. many families have their own horror stories, as well. this is why this has struck so many nerves. the more people to know about what you are doing and what happened, the better. urge people from all over to come and join you. the outcome of this and the surrounding events will influence our whole nation. it may also inspire people far off to take their own stand against such atrocities. keep everyone united for the greater good of our nation.
Im pretty sure this one is connected to the blog https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Justice-for-Kelly-Thomas/202121386512154
I dont see one for Kelly’s Army per se, but the one above has lots of updates, also there is
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Kelly-Thomas-messages/253125251387074
where you can leave messages to Kelly and his family- I started that one mainly because, though I do go to the saturday protests, I cant get to the candlelight services at night, but, I still wanted a way to to pay my respects
i see. thank you. one thing is that maybe there should be another separate one. one where you can get more people involved and not have the family have to deal with some of the other comments that may come about by ‘trolls’. at least the ones that are purposely trying to be hurtful. as another note i would like to mention that not all trolls are bad ones. kinda like not all cops are bad cops. many are on your side. but you need a place where it can all be hashed out and where anyone can join and link up and where the admins behind it don’t have to worry about the negatives. it needs to just roll with the punches. let the people liking the site reply in jest, where needed. the emotions need to be there. i think something with ‘army’ has a nice ring to it. something to think about.
yeah, start one mlee, I will join – I talked to Ron Thomas about this blog, I think last week, and asked him if he reads this- he said not really, I told him he may want to stay off it and he agreed, though Ron gets lots of support, the comments on here from trollfaces can be brutal, hurtful, untrue and inhuman
I don’t know how good I am at starting one. I’m not a blogger myself. I am just a person with ideas. As it is, I am usually on a mobile phone 99% of the time. I would have to ask around. As it is, you all seem to have more knowledge of what’s going on. You make it and I will join and spread the word. I will join the one connected to your blog when I log on to FB. Or maybe that one will suit just fine? It really needs more followers and I’d be happy to be one of them.
Also, might I say that maybe a site inspired by Kelly and against police brutality. It needs to be universal of sorts so that everyone may feel welcome and cam share their own personal stories and/or similar stories known, regarding abuse by police. That would keep it growing. We should know when and where these things happen across the country.
I just did a search on FB and realized there is about a dozen pages named “Justice for Kelly Thomas” on there. Here is another one that has a good 8000+ followers. Also mentions the protests on Saturdays. Promising. I liked yours and this one. http://touch.facebook.com/Justice4KellyThomas?refid=17&cid=id_4e7fca4c569f23153275305
The more the better, I think. Also, if that link doesn’t work for any reason, it’s because I’m on mobile. However, it’s the first to come up under a search. Just FYI.
She Bear: Empowerment and Safety for Women
Presented by Retired Police Chief, Pat McKinley
Monday, October 17, 7 pm
Brea Civic Center
In today’s uncertain world, we know that one in four women will be a victim of sexual assault in her lifetime – a devastating experience for a woman. It is Pat McKinley’s personal mission to change those odds. In his seminar, you will learn to use your inner sense of danger, and learn how to avoid unsafe situations, outsmart a potential attacker regardless of your age or size and face any danger that confronts you.
http://www.soroptimistblh.org/html/SheBearflyer81211.pdf
Will he be giving special instruction on how to protect yourself from sexual assault by FPD officers? Inner sense of danger….
If he really wanted to change those odds he would have taken Rincon off the streets.
Any asshole can publish his own book.
Chris,
I’ll agree to disagree with you on anything you like as long as in the end everyone involved gets to say due process was done.
Yes. This was a tragic and horriffic event.
Yes. The keepers need to be watched.
Yes, From the evidence I have seen evil was done. Yes, trying the two officers should probably not be the only prosecutions.
I’m sure that some deserve to be persecuted as well, but I hope thats not what we do. (If we followed the eye-for-an-eye routine.)
As long as everyone keeps doing (I’m talking about those seeking justice.) what they are doing, I have to have faith that the system will work.
The points you made about no cameras, minis, being available back then shows we have survival weapons now that are potent.
Perhaps if everyone put cameras in their cars and wore digital recorders much more could be done in the future. How did that movie about Big Brother go? Instead of big brother, how about Big Brother Watchers. We go back to Edmund Burke again. (paraphrase) “Anyman’s death diminishes me for no man is an island.”
I keep going back the same point. I don’t care if Attila the Hun is on trial. I would want for him the same due process I would work to gain for myself.
Very well said Jeff.
I would also suggest people learn about policing and become as knowledgeable as they can. Police policies, training, scenarios, use of force, and anything else related to policing can be found very easily these days with the Internet.
I cannot stress enough how doing ride alongs will help people see the day to day duties of police officers. Traffic stops, family disturbances, alarms, suspicious subjects, gangsters, foot chases, vehicle chases, and the biggest thing of all…..drunks!! Seeing it up close and personal, and wondering how you would have reacted is amazing for citizens. Citizen police academies also. Seeing the actual duties and interactions is amazing and valuable.
Becoming educated on both sides of the issue is very important. It’s always the easiest thing in the world to say you would have done it this way or that way after the fact, especially with no knowledge of reasoning or policies. Scenarios are the best. Always love putting citizens, especially anti police ones, through scenarios. I ask them what do you think you would do in this situation. Then go over policy and law. Then run the scenario. Traffic stop, house approach, subject fight, taser, baton, shoot/don’t shoot. When they are done with it all they always seem to have a new found approach to hasty decisions of all police cases.
Anyways, I thought your post was good and to the point.
Weren’t you the one who said “love and respect us and we will love and respect you”?
Maybe that was another “Reality Is.”
I might have. You don’t have to love me. I think it’s more of don’t disrespect me and then expect me to love and respect you. How I speak to you is determined by how you talk to me. I’m a people person and love talking to people. If I say hello there and you say fuck you I hate cops, then as long as you are sober and not committing a crime, I will tell you have a nice day and walk away. I treat you how you treat me. I talk to you how you talk to me.
So love and respect? Kinda.
Chris:
Good point.
Was McKinley looking to hire peace officers or was he looking for thugs who could knock the heads of the homeless and those students and young adults who where getting drunk in our downtown establishments?
Barry it is crystal clear what happened. Jones & Co. let Fullerton get out of control. Rather than rein in their campaign supporters they enlisted McKinley to hire a goon squad to get “hard and tough and mean.”
Every other city has moved away from the strategy that rudderless Fullerton pursued. Even as the rapes and murders and violence piled up Jones, Bankhead and McKinley were determined to treat the symptoms rather than the cure. Not surprising since they themselves were the carriers who infected the body politic.
I haven’t been following the shenanigans in Fullerton long enough to know firsthand what is going on, but this theory makes the most sense to me. Way more than the “few bad apples” theory.
I fully believe the instructions did come down from City Council to crack down, but my next question is did Fullerton PD go out of its way to hire thuggish, violent, aggressive cops, as part of a deliberate strategy? Are ALL or the MAJORITY of the officers of the FPD out there administering beatings, false arrests, and the rest of it?
We really should be able to see their personnel files. SOMEONE, who doesn’t work for the same police department and isn’t a member of the same union should be able to see those personnel files!
I suspect hundreds of cases of uninvestigated, unpunished police brutality could be found over the years if someone carefully checked.
Will be interesting to see what Gennaco comes back with.
I would assume he is able to review use of force cases with names redacted out. IA investigations with names redacted. I know personnel files and name specific information is very hard to get to without a judges permission. I know several higher ups in the LA office that audits LAPD complaints and shootings, etc. I’ll ask em.
It seems there would be a way to find out if certain officers were more likely to have arrests that required the use of some kind of force than other officers. There will probably be a pattern that emerges. Actually, there has already been a pattern that emerged, I’d just be interested to know how far it goes back and if there are any others.
FULLERTON LOVER,
Your blog regarding Ramos and domestic violence is nothing new in law enforcement. Not all officers are that way, but in more cases than not, the heavies usually bring the violence they do on the street, to their own homes.
Case in point: FEDUP and I had an investigation that dealt with an LAPD officer approximately 6 years ago. This officer was TWICE rejected for failing the psycological evaluation test. His fiance, a European woman, knew a General in her country, and he vouched for this officer’s good standing and the such. Long story short, the officer was hired, he was abusive on the street and at home.
One time, he had a few officer friends over. While watching the football game, he ordered his wife to do something. When she did not move fast enough, he stood up, grabbed her by the back of the head, and threw her to the ground. Another one of his violent episodes consisted of him applying a choke-hold on her, while he took his Baretta 9 mm duty pistol, and put the barrel against her head.
We sat down at her house with no less than 3 LAPD Sgt.’s from Internal Affairs, During her testimony, she told of many other incidents where he punched his 3 year of daughter, When she tried to intervene, she was hit. Even after all was said and done, this officer was NOT fired.
I could almost bet that Ramos and Cicinelli had some sort of domestic abuse going on at home if their street actions were that way. Sadly, only their family members will know.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
Yes, they have families. When the bail was approved. The families went into hiding.
THE WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM.
Head cams are becoming more popular. They are all just very expensive. Federal government just needs to set aside about $100 million and make it mandatory for all police in the USA. The best thing ever started was the dash cams in the units. I can’t count how many times that has saved me from made up complaints and accusations. Every call I can I turn my camera on and point it at the situation. Problem is they only turn on automatically when lights and sirens are activated. A camera system in every police unit and on every police officer recording everything from the start of the shift until the end would be great. It’s just not feasible and will probably never happen. Too much $$, data storage, privacy issues, etc.
(BANGS SHOE ON TABLE!!)
Here, here!!
LOL. Boots!!
Where was that city at mentioned? I can’t imagine having cameras just for tasers. Seems like a waste. Tasers are probably used a few times a month. Seems more logical to spend good money on vehicle dash cam systems or body systems.
The key also is not having to tuen something on and off. That policy will always have flexibility due to at times being unable to turn things on and off. Auto turn ons is the only way to avoid questions.
http://savannahnow.com/crime/2010-06-10/tybee-island-police-chief-supervisor-suspended-3-others-resign-after-tasing#.ToBM4-wlquI
Just so you know, when I said that people should be able to go up to cops and tell them to fuck off, and the cops should basically smile and wave, I didn’t mean that it would be a good thing in general if everybody was constantly verbally abusing police.
What I meant was, that I think a cop should be able to take it without batting an eye. That should be part of the training, don’t take things personally.
And then, the most important part is, even though you’re mad and feeling disrespected, the badge and gun confer huge responsibility, not personal power. Morally, abusing one’s position and power through using force sanctioned by society for one purpose, in order to fulfill personal desires for respect or for revenge, is for me, psychopathology.
I agree.
I think I said before that the reality is if you do tell me to fuck off and are very disrespectful for no reason and you have committed a violation of a penal code, vehicle code, or city code it highly increases the odds you will be going to jail. Makes sense right?
It makes sense. Though in an ideal world the law would be applied fairly and equitablly to all citizens.
In America, free speech, disrespect, and dissent are criminal
http://www.copblock.org/7642/in-america-free-speech-disrespect-and-dissent-are-criminal/
Jane H: Great stuff:
“The effect is the law punishes failure to grovel, and penalizes free speech with criminal sanctions. These are characteristics we have been told are only found in monarchies, dictatorships, tyrannies and other forms of government allegedly less free than the American brand. Yet it is difficult to imagine what kind of free society can tolerate the criminalization of bad attitudes, rude behavior, and disrespect.”
Another one of Homer Simpson’s gems gleaned from Jeffrey Castalines above-referenced URL…
An episode of the cartoon television series The Simpsons refers to this philosophical question. In episode 1F09, “Homer the Vigilante”, when Homer is talking about having abused his vigilante powers, his elder daughter Lisa asks, “If you’re the police, who will police the police?” Homer responds, “I don’t know. Coast guard?”
F’ing ridiculous conspiracy theories raise their ugly head once again.
Instead of being happy that the DA did a thorough investigation and actually charged two officers on some serious charges, the lynch mob wants all six, and is, as always, unconcerned about actual guilt.
Why should we be particularly happy about the DA doing what the DA is supposed to do, prosecute criminals?
Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the fix is in regarding the upcoming Fullerton Police murder trials for killing Kelly Thomas. Unfortunately, if I am correct, the DA, the powerful police union, the Fullerton Police Department, and the Fullerton City Leaders have conspired to protect these police officers and the police union.
Let us review the facts and I believe that you will tend to agree with me.
THE MURDER
1. It appears the call from a local BAR owner was faked to give the FPD a reason to arrest Kelly. Even the initial stated reason for approaching Kelly is suspect. Side note: If so, the citizens of Fullerton should see to it that this BAR is closed – one way or anther.
2. Six FPD officers took part in the murder; apparently two took a bigger part than the other four.
3. Ramos punched Kelly several times in the ribs, tackled Kelly and used his hands to hold Kelly’s NECK and used his body weight to hold Kelly down;
4. Wolfe, who was not charged, also punched Kelly 3 or 4 times, kneed him in the head, and used his body weight to hold Kelly down.
5. Cincinelli arrived and kneed Kelly twice in the head, used his Taser 4 times to shock Kelly, and used the front of the Taser like a club to hit Kelly in the FACE 8 times while Kelly was pinned to the ground and could not move or protect himself; Notably, Kelly did not respond to the clubbing by Cincinelli but that did not stop these animals.
6. A growing pool of blood did not stop the beating.
CAUSE OF DEATH
7. Yet the cause of death is “mechanical compression of the thorax making it impossible to breath normally”; Really !!!! Interesting as will be discussed below.
8. In contrast, the UIC Documents stated that Kelly Thomas died of Blunt Force Trauma to the head (“brain death” due to “head trauma” due to “Assault”). MRI demonstrated diffused supratentorial gray matter infarction consistent with diffused anoxic brain injury.
9. Notably, diffused anoxic injury can be caused by either breathing problems or brain acceleration (i.e. usually an vehicular accident but also head trauma from a beating). This is important as I believe the powers that been in this case have manipulated the selection of the “cause of death” for reasons described below.
THE POLICE REPORTS – Culture of Corruption
10. The Police were allowed watched a video of the incident to craft their reports; reports that had to be rewritten several times even after the video was used. This made sure the reports were consistent with each other.
11. There is apparently a culture of corruption at the FPD including police officers that have been described/be charged as pickpockets, thieves, sexual predators, kidnappers, thugs, and murderers . . . all hired by former Fullerton Police Chief and now city council member Pat McKinley.
12. The FPD appears to be run by UNION THUGS as was apparent when several Kelly Thomas protestors were ticked, by the head union thug, for blowing their car horn in support of Kelly Thomas.
13. While the DA’s job is to protect the people by prosecuting criminals, in the Kelly Thomas case, the DA has been described as being on the side of the police, who are the criminals in this case, not the people. The DA has even been described as engaging in preemptive surrender before the investigation is complete.
14. Even with help from the video tape to “get their story straight”, the FPD story is a shifting story that appears to be modified to fit the facts of the moment.
TIME LINE
15. Kelly Thomas, a 150 lb man, was beat to death by 6 FPD police officers on July 5, 2011; apparently with all their combined bulk, mussels and weapons, they just could not seem to get Kelly under control without beating him to death.
16. While the Orange Count DA started his investigation on July 7, 2011 no serious actions were noted until after a large protest outside the FPD on July 18, 2011 and after July 30, 2011 when the FBI started its investigation.
17. At some point between July 10, 2011 and July 30, 2011, Fullerton City tried to settle the case for $900,000, most likely financed by the UNIONS, to keep this incident under the rug, so to speak and probably to keep the FBI out of their files.
18. On August 2, 2011 the Fullerton City Council meeting was held that discussed the Kelly Thomas case. Just hours before this meeting 5 of the six officers were FINALLY placed on paid leave (one officer was already on leave) but only after the FPD and City Council realized that this case was not going away, Kelley’s father could not be bought off, and the FBI were going to investigate.
19. This timeline, coupled with the shifting story of the FPD, coupled with the documented culture of corruption of the FPD and the Fullerton City Council, the demonstrated policy of fraudulently creating police reports using videotape and rewriting to make such reports consistent, coupled with the attempt to bribe Kelly Thomas’s father to keep this matter under the rug, I have little trouble concluding that the FPD, the Fullerton City Council and their union thugs have NO HONOR and will do whatever it takes to see that these police officers are found innocent.
THE CHARGES
20. Ramos has been charged with one felony count of second degree murder, one felony count of involuntary manslaughter;
21. Jay Cicinelli one felony count of involuntary manslaughter and one felony count of the use of excessive force;
PARRALLELS to ISAIAH SIMMONS CASE
http://juvienation.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/charges-dismissed-in-isaiah-simmons-case/
22. Isaiah Simmons, a 17-year-old convicted of armed robbery, died at the Baltimore-area Bowling Brook Preparatory School, a privately run residential program for juvenile offenders. Following an outburst that day, Simmons was set upon by a group of counselors, who, according to the Baltimore Sun, “pinned him face down to the ground, restraining him for about three hours.” After Simmons lost consciousness, the guards waited forty-one minutes before calling 911;
23. The school was shut down in March, the death was ruled a homicide; On January 29, 2008, Carroll Court Circuit Judge Michael Galloway dismissed the last of the charges of reckless endangerment that had been filed against the counselors in the Simmons case.
24. Bowling Brook administrator Brian Hayden said in a prepared statement, “With this dismissal, Judge Galloway affirms that these gentlemen had nothing but the utmost concern for the safety and welfare of Isaiah, and they reacted as quickly and effectively as possible in an effort to avoid this tragedy.” Simmons’s mother, Felicia Wilson, said she was “devastated and outraged” that charges against the counselors were dismissed. “I have no faith in the Carroll County justice system,” she said. “I’m not going to stop fighting for justice for my son.” Wilson has called for federal charges, and prosecutors plan to file an appeal.
25. Kelly Thomas should get ready for their “outrage” when these cops are set free.
26. Side note: Don’t think that police officers are not aware of this phenomenon where suspects die when the suspect’s chests are compressed for long periods of time. Thus, if you want to kill a suspect in an apparently nonviolent way, a way that is difficult to prove was murder, simply apply sufficient pressure to the suspect’s back until he becomes comatose (as was done in the Kelley Thomas case if one believes the corner’s reported cause of death). When you hear the suspect cry out that he can breathe, you know you’re getting the pressure right, and simply hold it for sufficient amount time.
THE TRIAL
The trial will likely be a choreographed scam. I would not even be surprised if the DA and the defense team for the police officers (financed by the union thugs) get together and meticulously choreograph what case law will be presented, the best rebuttals to the case law, and the theatrics that will be used during the trial.
As I see it now, the State’s case depends on whether or not the DA can convince a jury that Ramos was committing a crime during the arrest. If so, the murder charge to stick as it does not matter if the death was an accident or completely the fault of Ramos as a death results from a criminal act.
In contrast, if the jury does not believe that Ramos was committing a crime during the arrest, then the cause of death becomes critical.
This is where the coroner’s report becomes important as it differs in a material way from the UIC Documents. The coroner’s report puts the cause of death as: “mechanical compression of the thorax making it impossible to breathe normally”. The UIC Documents stated that Kelly Thomas died of Blunt Force Trauma to the head (“brain death” due to “head trauma” due to “Assault”). MRI demonstrated diffused supratentorial gray matter infarction consistent with diffused anoxic brain injury.
Diffused anoxic brain injury is consistent with the conclusions of both the coroner and the UIC documents. The difference: if the UIC documents are correct, then Ramos and Cicinelli are guilty of murder as they clearly caused all the head trauma. If the corner is correct, pressure on Kelly’s back cause the death; a cause that cannot be attributed to Ramos alone beyond a reasonable doubt. The corner, DA, union thugs, Fullerton City Council and FPD really had to get together to figure this path out which is why it took so long for the coroner’s report to be made public.
In the end, the trial will be a choreographed circus and the cops will go free because the selected cause of death could not be attributed to Ramos and Cicinelli, there will be outrage among Kelly Thomas supporters, and the Union thugs will get richer off the tax pay money.
This is the trend I was talking about. Making blogs have identities. Would weed out all the anonymous posts by both sides and make for legitimate conversations. CNN video on the exact trend.
http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.html#/video/tech/2011/09/27/wian-web-roll-crackdown.cnn?iref=allsearch
Looks like Officer Ramos is out of jail. I’m sure that will make everyone happy. Another injustice. Now it should have been no bail! 🙂 so you think Pat bailed him out? 🙁
Thanks for sharing this information. I didn’t know about a lot of it. My uncle is in charge of criminal defense in austin tx and deals with this stuff a lot.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0104-lapd-women-20130104,0,2291319.story
HA HA HA THIS WILL BE SQUASHED. THESE GUYS CAN BE HIRED IN FULLERTON THEY HAVE OUTSTANDING QUALIFICATIONS.