CSUF Giving Up on “University Heights” Fiasco?
A few years ago Cal State Fullerton decided to get into the housing business for its employees. Why public employees should get any sort of preferential treatment for housing is beyond me, but that’s the society in which we live.
Anyway, the whole thing turned out to be a massive disaster, but not an embarrassment, of course, for such things are not permitted in the lofty ether of educratic circles. FFFF posted about it here, and here.
Recap: the university made a deal with the Elks for land up on Elk Hill and sold a bond to build a bunch of cookie-cutter tract duplexes that were to be sold to professors and administrators, and such like, and subsidized by you and me. The only problem was that an underlying deed restriction required sale to others in the same category, an encumbrance that turned out to be a lot more than a mere nuisance, especially when real estate prices were plummeting all over the place.
The university also had the responsibility to make monthly payments to the Elks for their land, which were to passed on to lucky buyers: a sort of Mello-Roos arrangement, if you will.
But nobody was buying. So the university opened up residence to any government workers. Still no sales. Finally they just started renting them out to anybody with a cleaning deposit and first month’s rent. Could it get worse?
Looks like it could. Persistent rumors suggest that CSUF wants out of the University heights disaster altogether by completely removing the deed restriction and just selling them off – individually or as a group – no doubt at fire sale prices. They obviously need the cash.
The losses on the original deal would be quietly swept under the rug – no doubt with diminishing fund balances bailing out the catastrophe.
And what for? According to an acquaintance at Western Law School, CSUF wants to buy their facility for $20,000,000, give or take, and metastasize across State College.
It’s pretty clear to me that the CSUF appetite for real-estate wheeling and dealing is insatiable, even as the CSU system teeters on the financial brink. It’s also clear that nobody is going to be held accountable for the University Heights quagmire. F. “Dick” Jones, the City mastermind, is recalled; his buddy, former City manager Chris is fatly pensioned off; Bill Dickerson, the CSUF architect of the fiasco is retired, too. CSUF President, the dopey Milton Gordon? You guessed it. Gone, as well.
Would it be asking too much for our State Assemblyman Chris Norby to demand an inquiry on what unfolded up on Elk Hill?
As usual, government fails at free enterprise.
The project was funded by the Foundation, tho, not the college, as the Foundation is where the profit making activity takes place since the college is a non-profit entity. Make sense to you? Me neither.
Once you add in the land rental fee and the taxes and mortgage, it’s more expensive than a house. And you can be forced to sell if you leave employment at CSUF, I think even if you retire! So why bother. And how can it attract faculty if they’re all occupied?
I think they will need some kind of law change if they’re going to open it up to anyone — better than sticking it to the taxpayers again.
Thanks for the clarification about the Foundation. I thin we did describe that in an earlier post. In any case to me it’s a distinction without a difference. The bonds sold by the Foundation must be backed by taxpayer-owned assets.
Admin it sounds like you don’t even know what you’re talking about! Uummmm oh I mentioned that in an early article……. The thing is….. Nobody cares!!!!
A realtor told me they actually have a loan, but who knows now how it’s structured.
You are probably correct that the taxpayer will ultimately be responsible.
The word is THINK. Silver spooners and trust fund babies don’t need to know how to spell. GED spooge.
Hey, admin…how’s your vag doing after that pounding it took on Tuesday night when the community came out in force and told you and your 4F mafia to fuck off? Ahahawhahah!
Well, if by “community” you mean half the 140 member FPOA (the ones that aren’t in jail or on parole, that is) and their trough feeding family members, than yes the community showed up.
Hey, I see Joe S. has awakened from his coma as well! Minimize all you want, turd boy but the Community gave you and your ilk an emphatic kick in the nuts. Now why don’t you go back to selling firearms to mental midgets for use in movie theater mass shootings.
@Anonymous, Let’s see, I think you must be referring to Fast and Furious, conducted by the ATF, under the supervision of the Justice Department and the blatant cover-up of wrongdoing by the Obama administration. Obama and Holder who authorized selling firearms to the weapons traffickers…which resulted in the murder of hundreds of people, including Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, gunned down with a weapon that the federal government put in the hands of Mexico’s narco-terrorists.
@Anon, Yes, the FPOA rapists, thieves, liars and murderers were definitely out in force!! The FPOA murderers and rapists who hide behind their badges are absolutely revolting to behold, but at least now I will recognize them when they are not in uniform. Forewarned is forearmed.
Jfa,
So what if you know what they look like out of uniform? What are you going to do?? Take a picture, video, follow them??? Who cares!! You think they care? If they where concerned about their identity they would have worn masks just like Kelly’s arm!! They are not cowards like Kelly’s arm!!
It might be interesting for Chris to did into the details, but it sounds like the root cause is known. When government tries t manipulate the market by decree, the market does not always go along.
It seems likely that this is one of those projects that suffered from bad timing — set in motion just before the credit crunch and coming to fruition just afterwards.
Yeah, I guess it makes sense to blame government — after all, no private firms were messed up in similar circumstances were they?
Seriously, do people on this siteread newspapers? Late 2008 into 2009 credit crunch? Gee, can anyone solve the mystery?
Yeah bad timing. Spoken like a true idiot. There was never a good time for this idiocy. Some poor schmucks wwere bound to get stuck with one of these turkeys sooner or later.
Unfortunately none of them sold, so it’s on the taxpayer. Goddam you are an insufferable ignoramus.
ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz …
(Wow, you’re right — that IS fun!)
Sorry, but your credibility is limited. Private developers did just as bad or worse in housing — but you don’t seem to process that. It doesn’t fit your political narrative.
Insulting me does always shut me up, though; at least you have figured that out. You’re just so SMART!
True but it wasn’t my tax money it was either theirs or their investors that they lost. Government is a losing business. The wise NEVER depend on it. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Wait but there is at the schools, laden with nitrites, GMO, trans fats, high fructose corn syrup and on and on-DESIGNED of course to keep ’em dumb and down so no one pays attention because physiologically they can’t. Hence socialism made possible by the destruction of public health and the reduction of IQs and the boodoggle reward for those at the end of the process that put the icing on the cake.
They will never get it.
Just like they always complain about corporate CEOs when the discussion of public pension abuse comes up. It’s brainless; it’s reflexive; it’s knee jerk boohooism.
In this particular case, it was poor planning by the CSUF Housing Authority. You should have seen the other plan they came up with to build houses in the Puente Hills on open space and a fault zone. I am proud to say I helped kill that deal. I had forgotten all about it. Now that would have been a major, major fiasco, far worse than this one.
Good for you — because that plan sounds nuts.
I can believe that you’re right about this being poor planning — but the lack of insight expressed here so far into why someone might have had trouble selling houses in the worst credit crunch since the 1930s doesn’t give me a lot of confidence in the discussion. It’s just “public bad, private good” knee-jerking.
Fuck you “Diamond”. Go back to your kibutz and shoot at Arabs with your US payed for Uzi.
I don’t have an Uzi, or any US paid for weapons, and if I had them I would not be shooting at Arabs. I did like visiting a kibbutz once, though, so you’re one for five or six.
They are idiots
Another conspiracy. They are evywhere in Fullerton. Only Fullerton of course.
Wry.
Zzzzzzzz…
Government fiascos are commonplace because none of the dunderheads who experiment with other people’s money get fired when their investments go sideways and blow up. All they do is sweep the losses over to the taxpayer side of the equation then complain that they need bigger and bigger budgets.
Imagine if some dork working for a private corporation made the Elk Hill financial blunder. How long would he be employed with the company. They would boot his ass out the back door so fast his head would spin in circles.
But in government there are NO consequences for incompetent behavior or for laziness. And that is why you are forced to deal with total boneheads every time you go to a government agency for service. That is why the state budget is perpetually in the red. That is why applications for government jobs are at an all-time high. Everybody wants top dollar to be a complete dunderhead with guaranteed lifetime employment.
Look at all loser agencies run by the government in the educational system, the justice system, the post office, the welfare system…..etc…..
All classic examples of how not to run a business.
You got it, JU!
True they all just got raises for doing a good job. You guys want all public employees at the poverty level. Will never happen. People making hasty an political agenda decisions made POBAR law. Pretty soon they will have a public employee retaliation bill to keep people like ffff away too. 🙂
Looks like CSUF has set up the model for the disposable community. It’s a Keynesian rip off scheme folks. Learn your occult economics or capitulate. We’re under siege from Britain, and unless you wake NOW this is going to MAGNIFY across the US. At the present time you are chasing your tail looking for accountability. You may get this corrected for the time being, but you will eventually once again trust these snakes, and when you do they will restore atramental. you are clueless AND dumb fucking stupid!
“London calling to the underworld”-The Clash 1983
These projects started because of the difficulty of attracting quality faculty to CSUF in the early 2000s. Starting salaries were in the $45-55K range and houses were going for around $300-400K at the time. You’re not supposed to buy a house that costs 7-8 times your annual salary, and many faculty couldn’t afford to buy and were worried that the bubble would permanently push home ownership out of reach. So the University decided to do what many private and public universities do and try to provide some housing for faculty. The backstory is that faculty were both leaving CSUF or refusing to take jobs there since they could go to Kansas or Wisconsin or wherever and pay 2-3 their annual salary for housing instead. I know good people who left for that reason.
The first project was University Gables in Buena Park and was a success – the prices were kept low, and they quickly filled up and sold.
The problem was that in this second project they decided to build larger, more higher-end homes. Besides aesthetic considerations (these are monstrosities), the problem was that these were put on the market for I think around $575K which was both unaffordable for new faculty on their salaries, which did not increase proportionally to housing costs (or even close) through the decade and also quickly became a bad deal as the housing market collapsed.
The problem is not necessarily the idea of subsidized housing for faculty. The only fixes to the problem were either subsidizing housing or raising salaries to the point where market rates for houses were affordable (I would have preferred the latter) but given the bubble, that would have meant a lot more money. The problem was this particular project and its timing, and the inflexibility of the Housing Authority. I know a faculty member who made a reasonable offer for one of these and had it rejected. Now they will end up selling it for considerably less than that. Either the University should not be in the housing business at all or it should be a great deal more efficient and accountable about its projects.
That shows just how smart the CSUF eggheads really are, since housing prices dropped by 40% shortly thereafter and now any dope with regular income can buy a home in Fullerton now with ease.
Think about it. If nobody can afford a house, nobody will buy and the prices will come down. Econ 101.
Educrats are dumb.
Right now for a newly hired faculty housing prices in neighborhoods around the campus are still around 5-7 times annual salary. Compared to 2-4 times in a lot of other places. The university has few options: salary increases, subsidized housing, or lower quality faculty. Why would faculty take a job for less pay and higher housing costs? You get what you pay for.
Jt, you are missing the point. Just because you teach at the college level you don’t deserve to live in Newport Coast. You buy where you can afford. Providing housing for college instructors is socialism at it’s finest. I have taken a few community college classes for enjoyment and those instructors are every bit as good as the instructors who taught me at 4 year institutions. Nobody provides subsidized housing for community college instructors. No private companies I know of provide subsidized housing for their employees. Why should the government? If CSUF professors want to go live in Mississippi or Kentucky – let them. There are lots of Ph.D’s out of work who would love to teach at CSUF without subsized housing and replace the ones there today.
What you have is a communist style economic system at the Ca universities while all other workers must live under capitalism. The average wage for the common worker has been stagnant for over a decade now while prices have risen. Everybody seems to get by for some reason except for the socialists working at the university. For some reason they need more perks that everybody else gets. Screw them. Let them eat cake!
Nobody is living at Newport Coast on a CSU faculty salary. University Gables is attached houses, 1700 sq ft or less, with tiny yards, right by the train tracks.
Alot of LA and OC workers must live in Riverside, Jt.
Should we give all of them subsidized housing???
Why should we treat university professors like little gods?
Why should they be entitled to compensations that no one else gets?
Please, acknowledge reality.
If you don’t match their private sector salaries expect them to go there. If they have to take 6 extra years of study and you pay them the same as people with BAs they lose any economic incentive to get PhDs.
The college profs all teach with a communist ideology but they want to be paid like greedy capitalists! 😀
They want to be communists paid like capitalists! 😀
Screw them. Let them move to Mississippi and teach there. Stop complaining. If they don’t like the compensation – M-O-V-E!!!
Watch out, I think you’re at risk of get an anti-intellectual reply to this one …
WHOOPS, THERE IT IS! WHOOPS, THERE IT IS!
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
JT, shouldn’t teachers teach because they want to impart knowledge and not for the money?
It is like cops and fire fighters- they line up around the block for an entry level position no matter the pay.
If someone wants to get a PhD and teach, good for them but that shouldn’t mean the rest of us should have to subsidize their career choice.
I wonder if private sector academic pensions and benefits compare to the public sector.
Somehow I doubt it.
and by the metrolink and bus station, I don’t envy them. In fact, I feel sorrow for those erudite persons who live there who try to have an enlightened conversation above the din of buses, cars, trains and the planes that frequently fly overhead to the fullerton airport a mile away.
“The problem is not necessarily the idea of subsidized housing for faculty.”
Yea, I’m sure they’ll get it right next time. This was just a mistake. Won’t happen again.
They just need more time and money. You’ll see.
They built 2 projects. On was a success, one wasn’t. I was one of the few people there publically calling them out on this failure, and that was 4-5 years ago.
How is the Buena Park project a success? It’s full of a bunch of professors paying a mortgage on encumbered homes that they will never sell for more than they paid. And that’s even with the taxpayer subisidies.
It’s a success because the profs will be stuck here forever!
If you view houses as a long-term investment it is not a good deal I agree. But it does provide the equivalent of rent control – low monthly housing payments. It is a success in that it keeps faculty from leaving.
Yes, it will keep them from leaving if the pool of people who qualify for ownership come from the tiny pool of CSUF employees.
As somebody else noted, sooner or later some idiot is going to get locked in at the wrong time. And it won’t happen just once.
But most universities don’t buy land and build houses; most offer a range of options, like loan support or rental housing for reduced prices. Support their loan, then let them find their own home. The City could have shown their older sections to the school and faculty. Win-win.
If all the units were sold, which they would need to do to bail out CSUF, then there would be none left for the next group of faculty! They need housing right off the bat, not 5-10 years down the line.
Loan support would be a good alternative, or a one-time down payment stipend.
I know a guy who got a job at Cal Tech and to sweeten the offer they just outright threw in a bought and paid for house.
Cal Tech is not a public college.
But that is what you’re competing against when you hire faculty. If you want good people you have to offer some kind of total compensation package which is at least competitive with other state colleges and even with some private ones.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree that the UH project was a fiasco. I think a one-time housing stipend is a better alternative than having a Housing Authority.
C’mon Jt. CSUF isn’t competing with the Ivies or places like CT. It is competing with other CSUs.
Apparently CSUF competes with Yale, Harvard and Columbia in his mind.
In reality it competes with the local community colleges. 😉
That’s really not true Joe. I won’t list the places I interviewed and the offers I passed on when I accepted an offer here, but they were good research schools both public and private. I know faculty members we have lost to everywhere from Penn St, LSU, UCLA, Claremont colleges, etc. Everybody has a different reason for where they want to live. I’m where I am for family and personal reasons, not economic ones or necessity.
Keep on fighting the good fight. Send up a smoke signal if you need help. I’m outa this one.
Penn State and LSU? Really Jt?
I bet even Dumpster Diver Diamond could get a job teaching something to somebody at LSU.
BTW, check out real estate prices in Baton Rouge. Diamond could move out of his one bedroom Brea Apartment and live like a king!
I live in a one-bedroom apartment now? Well, if you said it, it must be true! It’s like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory!
As a renter, I’m happily not underwater (and my heart does bleed for those who are.) Here’s the problem, though: I can’t buy a house yet, though, because I haven’t decided on which city I want to live in! My wife wants us to stay in Brea, but everyone here really seems to want me to move to Fullerton, so….
No, Greg, we REALLY want you to move to New York…happy packing!!
Hahaha…I am going to remind you lofty edutopia is doomed when they close CSUF. You’re standing in a forest claiming it’s humanity. It’s a fucking scam, genius, and it’s going to bury your community in an avalanche of domestic and economic crisis as it becomes more clear to people what actually happened to Kelly Thomas and how this involves Fullerton’s future. California is the little EU. Thomas is one of 100 Duggan’s across the state. It’ll eventually dawn on you on what’s going on. In the meanwhile we have to pretend your academic fantasy actually has some value when it’s meaningless stacked against a couple of Wiki pages. You don’t control reality any more, thank God, which is why we haven’t yet fallen in to chaos across the state. MSM can’t make this happen either long as we alternative media to help us our with the facts. In the meanwhile Keynesian systems are rising all around us with silly minded fucks like you playing fool closely allied with a system that is partly responsible for these circumstances. If you want bottom line, ding bat, the monarchy wants California vacated for it’s own use. People aren’t migrating off their flat earth fast enough, so they’ve polluted the atmosphere with particulate and chemical substances which are trapping heat near the ground creating an inversion layer an killing off wild life and food crops. Everyone was speculation they’d do something and though it would be near the Colosseum. It’s the atmosphere, and it will get hot enough to start cooking US, too! Dumb fuck!
“The first project was University Gables in Buena Park and was a success”
Is that why they had to open it up to Cal Poly employees?
How many Cal Poly Pomona employees live there compared to CSUF employees?
University Heights a good example of why government sponsored enterprises are so bad for the economy.
Amidst the uproar over rising CSU tuition, reduced classes offered to CSU students and extreme admission restrictions to CSU campuses that are due to state of California’s austerity program that cuts the throat of our economy by denying a once affordable college education to a potential workforce, squats the multi-million, misdirected , tax dollars called University Heights.
The real issue here is how did so much money, power and influence become concentrated into the hands of a few fools?
And this phenomena is repeated numerous times on a daily basis at every level of our government at the tax payers expense.
Since this blog is on the topic of government sponsored enterprises, the topic of federally backed student loans funding public college education for students is an example of one of the few good government sponsored enterprises ruined by fools.
Accompanying the political mantra “All high school students should go to college” is the push by both Obama and Romney to privatize education. Both these men avoid the issue of the rapid growth of pay the fee get a B universities.
One glaring example of abuse of government backed student loans is the University of Phoenix, the highest recipient of government student loans.
At best U of Phoenix has a dubious academic standing due to its lack of admission criteria, watered down curriculum and low academic standards. U of Phoenix graduates often end up with $50,000 student loans and no employable skills.
Chief Executive Officer for U of Phoenix, Robert Silberman, annual salary in 2010 was 41.0 million (Bloomberg, Nov. 9 2010).
Contrast this salary with the dean of the College of Medicine at Ohio State, a public university, salary for the same year, $710,000.
Yes, the mantra “everyone will go to college”, and “private education is better than public” rings hollow when contrasted with the damage government has done to the CSU system to save money while our federal government throws money at You See Crap Universities in the form of tax supported student loans.
Why does government waste our tax dollars on silly schemes and then cuts funding to viable, productive government sponsored enterprises, the one known as public college education.
Because too much power, money and influence is concentrated into the hands of a few fools. From Dick Jones, Fullerton city council member to U.S. presidents, our tax dollars are wasted by them.
Excellent points.
thank you
“You See Crap Universities in the form of tax supported student loans.”
Excellent phrase and point!
CSUF professors aren’t gods. They are easily replaceable with instructors who are every bit as good as they are who wouldn’t demand subsidized housing. It’s just another socialist give-a-way program for the entitled club members. The university con artists work under a communist economic system while the rest of us are forced to work under the rules of capitalism. The argument that we couldn’t find quality instructors without subsidized housing is the same bogus excuse that we couldn’t find quality cops without the 3%@50 defined pension. TOTAL bullshit. Don’t buy it for a second!!!
It doesn’t have to be subsidized housing, it could be more competitive salaries. JC faculty make more than CSUF faculty. So do some high school teachers. Why would someone take a job at a CSU for less pay than other states and higher housing costs? Only for non-economic considerations. Anybody in it for the money is not going to come to the CSU.
“JC faculty make more than CSUF faculty”
I seriously doubt that is true – or you might be twisting the truth. Maybe a rookie CSUF instructor makes less than a 25 year JC instructor. But if you compare apples with apples please don’t mislead the readers by claiming JC instructors make more than CSUF instructors. Fill in the blanks, please.
“Why would someone take a job at a CSU for less pay than other states and higher housing costs?”
Corporations don’t provide subsidized housing. And many corporate execs don’t make more than CSUF professors. Many make less. Yet corporations can find quality managers for some reason.
“Anybody in it for the money is not going to come to the CSU”
Who cares??? Then let them go teach in Mississippi or Oklahoma where the cost of living is much less. Move out of California. We can find quality professors without treating them like mini-gods. If they want to live under a communist style economic system then move overseas. In America we are supposed to live under capitalism. If they don’t like our system – MOVE – but they should not be entitled to benefits that no one else gets!!!
I have a friend who works at a JC. He was hired there 2 years before I was at CSUF. He makes more. I’m not twisting the facts. Do you know what CSUF salaries actually are?
He does a lot of assuming. He’s always right so even his guesses are always right.
They are paid better and have to publish less than CSU for tenure. Since CSU is a state agency, it takes years to change salaries, rules and regs, hiring standards, though.
The Foundation was trying to do a good thing without that interference, but it was really gambling. They did ok with the Buena Park one but grossly misread the market on the Fullerton one. Everyone with half a brain knew a crash was coming…
As for private business, they offer housing subsidies all the time!
Thank you PJ.
“As for private business, they offer housing subsidies all the time!”
Total BS. Not for classes of workers. Maybe for a CEO. A college prof is not a CEO. Sorry. Besides, a CEO is paid with PRIVATE funds. The college prof is paid with TAXPAYER funds. See the difference yet??
If that is what you think then you should be arguing that all colleges should be privatized. Of course that would then lower the number of students who can afford to go to them, which would increase unemployment and underemployment and give a huge competitive advantage to other nations which do have public colleges and subsidized higher education.
“Of course that would then lower the number of students who can afford to go to them, which would increase unemployment and underemployment and give a huge competitive advantage to other nations which do have public colleges and subsidized higher education”
Did you state earlier that you teach at CSUF???
My God. If so I am dumbfounded that a college prof would be unaware that there are hundreds of thousands of college grad unemployed or underemployed with massive student debt from their worthless college degrees. You should know that. But the college staff love to have students take seats in the classroom even if they have to go deep into debt since it provides the staff with job security. 50% of the college enrollees have no business being there. They should take up trades instead of going into hock for a worthless diploma. And it’s the college administrations and staffs that complicitly enable these kids by coaxing them into the classrooms with unrealistic expectations. Shame on them all!
Private businesses offer housing subsidies (moving, too, etc.) They do it for top personnel, not Instructor and Assistant Professor level people.
“I have a friend who works at a JC. He was hired there 2 years before I was at CSUF”
You need to come up with something better than a personal anecdote, Jt.
Personal anecdotes are not acceptable proof source on this board.
Try again.
You have relied on personal anecdotes yourself. In fact from what I recall your experience in the public sector is the reason for your disdain of all public sector workers. Anyway, public salaries are public records so anybody can find the data and see for themselves. The fact remains, JC faculty’s salary structure is similar to the CSU structure, but in many cases JC faculty end up making more, for whatever reason.
You are very angry and very jealous of anyone that makes a decent wage. You should have jumped on those chances when you had the chance. Jealousy is killing you.
“You are very angry and very jealous of anyone that makes a decent wage”
No. I am a typical American who despises inequitable treatment. One of the greatest virtues of being an American was to expect ‘fairness’ in treatment. Now that government slugs are treated like kings and queens in comparison to private sector workers we have moved far away from the ‘fairness’ concept. I am only proposing that we bring it back. You are proposing that we promote the current inequities. That is the difference between you and me. You vote for a communist-like economic system. I call for capitalism.
You’re not a typical American. You’re an angry, hateful bigot. Your soul is dog shit. Everything about you is ugly. Why don’t you kill yourself already you fucking waste of space cocksucker.
You don’t hate me, chump. You hate my opinions that are diametrically opposed to your own. You just can’t accept differences which makes you the radical bigot. Not me. All my opinions are perfectly logical and reasonable. That’s the reason you can’t debate my opinions and must attack me personally. Because of your lack of brain cells. 😀
The professoriat has an even better scam going than the cops. A couple of classes a semester and summer off. Of course the better schools require publishing to get tenure, but one you have that it’s 35 years of gravy for the lazy academic.
so true, JT.
Once again, Jt. This is the SAME SCAM the cops used. They claimed that we would not be able to find quality cops without the 3%@50. How did that work out, Jt??? And after the SB400 (the 3%@50 law) was passed then each city claimed they had to implement it otherwise they could not be ‘competitive’ and find good officers!! How did that work out, Jt?? How did that work out with Fullerton PD???
It’s a SCAM, Jt. Admit it. It’s a SCAM to rachet up compensation for the government employed scoundrels!!! No one in the private sector gets these entitlements.
Please acknowledge the truth!!!
Scam? Cops left good PDs that didn’t have 3% at 50 for PDs that did. Happened often. Are you making things up again?
JU. It’s just like if FUllerton tried to pay the cops $20 an hour and take away 3% at 50 they would all leave. You would get all cops that couldn’t get hired anywhere else but Fullerton. Yes I know all FPD are terrible cops so wouldn’t care but long term you would.
It’s not a scam. The faculty union never has made any demands for faculty housing. The University offered it because they realized the extent to which faculty searches were going unfilled and good people were leaving. The University needed to stop the bleeding and thought subsidized housing would provide an economic incentive.
That’s the same bullshit excuse all government agencies use to rachet up the salaries and benefits far above what is available in the private sector. It’s the oldest scam in the book. Just like when the Fullerton cops complain that the Newport cops make more than they do. So they ask for a 10% raise. 😉 Same old bullshit. The CSUF faculty point to UCLA and say “It isn’t fair. They make more than we do. We want more. Otherwise we will leave”. 🙂 That game could go on through infinity, Jt. Anybody with a brain cell can see it.
I have a message for the CSUF faculty – if you don’t like the compensation then get the hell out. Move to Mississippi. Go teach there. We are fed up with your whining. Nobody in the private sector gets treated like you. Get over yourselves.
I’m not whining. If you don’t value eduction and would prefer all CSU faculty to move to Mississippi don’t be surprised when private industry follows them. If you want a well-educated workforce you have to pay for education, some way or another. If you pay less, expect less. The faculty didn’t ask or negotiate for housing anyway. It was the administration who started all of these projects.
“If you want a well-educated workforce you have to pay for education, some way or another. If you pay less, expect less”
The large, large majority of private sector workers either lost their jobs or took huge salary and benefit cuts. It’s fine time for college profs and other public workers to do the same. Public workers should also have to pay a price in a bad economy. 98% of the private sector workers had nothing to do with the meltdown. Yet they had to pay a BIG price. Why should college profs get a pass? What makes them so damn special?
“The faculty didn’t ask or negotiate for housing anyway. It was the administration who started all of these projects”
Come on, Jt. Let’s be serious here. Are you saying that the faculty and/or their unions have no political influence on the administration? Who do you think you’re chatting with here? A 3rd grader?
Many of my friends in the private sector did not lose their jobs or take any salary cuts. My friends in banking, biotech, and other industries are doing great. University professors took a 10% furlough (voluntarily) for a year and have had no pay increases of any kind for 5 years. The faculty union had nothing to do with university housing. It was proposed by administrators who were concerned about losing faculty. I know this because I was there when the proposals were aired on the senate floor.
“Many of my friends in the private sector did not lose their jobs or take any salary cuts”
And there ya go again with your personal anecdotes that are worthless as proof souces.
The data actually shows that the private sector worker took a huge hit (job losses, pay/benefit cuts, hours cut back, etc..) as compared to the public worker. Those are FACTS, not anecdotes.
“The faculty union had nothing to do with university housing. It was proposed by administrators who were concerned about losing faculty”
To believe that faculty or faculty unions have no influence over administration is as naive as believing that public unions have no influence over a politician’s vote on police pay or working conditions.
So, if these are all facts, show me proof of any of them. Back them up. Otherwise its just your words.
Okay. You want a proof souce? How about from the US Dept of Labor? Is that good enough for you:
” …….based on data from the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey and the U.S. Department of Labor: About 1.5 million, or 53.6 percent, of bachelor’s degree-holders under the age of 25 last year were jobless or underemployed, the highest share in at least 11 years. In 2000, the share was at a low of 41 percent, before the dot-com bust erased job gains for college graduates in the telecommunications and IT fields. Out of the 1.5 million who languished in the job market, about half were underemployed, an increase from the previous year”
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/53-of-recent-college-grads-are-jobless-or-underemployed-how/256237/#
Take that, Jt!!!
JustUs, you obviously have some issues with…well… just about everything. You go after everyone like a pit bull, and for what reason? Maybe it makes you feel better about yourself, I don’t know. Or, maybe this is your therapy.
The chips on your shoulders must be heavy by now. Why don’t you push a few off, and rest a little?
Sorry, Jane. When I see bullshit I call it out. I don’t sweep it under the carpet hoping that no one smells the stink. You want bobbleheads who agree with all the public employee scams. Sorry, dear. From me you get the truth. Like it or lump it. 🙂
I’ll lump it, thank you. And I don’t necessarily see your arguments as the final truth, although there is a lot of truth in what you say. There are many ways to truth, and yours seems harsh. If you were my friend, husband or whatever, I would be gone. Why? Because you don’t care who you hurt.
I worked in government and saw corrupt it was. I belonged to a union, until I found out how self-serving they are. I needed help from them, and they dropped the ball on me, and that is why I left civil service. Many things are wrong with public unions, and I will never join one again under any circumstances.
Having said all that, I do believe that “privatizing the public sector”, at least the way I understand it, is a mistake. I really don’t want to argue with you about that now because I’m not well today.
Perhaps if you lightened up a little on people, they would be more responsive to your arguments.
Just a thought.
Amen!
I will sound like an elitist when I say the difference between police officers and college professors is police officers may only have a few college courses to get a their good paying jobs. College professors spend close to ten years, oodles of money on student loans to get their jobs. In short, professors make a longer more expensive commitment to their profession than a police officer or a firefighter does to get his or her job. and our society monetarily rewards , on average, more the police officer or firefighter than the college professor.
Absolutely right.
Agree 100%
How much are they going for?
They’re not even trying to sell them now, they’re trying to lease them. http://www.csufhomes.org/PDF/HOUSING%20AUTHORITY%20HOUSING%20OPPORTUNITIES%20-%20Aug.2012.pdf
Tony should buy them all. Then he could be the slumlord of CSUF as well.
As a man of means I’m sure that Tony knows that in America money buys influence. Nothing happens anymore because it’s the ‘right thing to do’. It happens because there is big money that supports it. That’s the way the game is played in Congress, corporate America and in the State legislature. It’s an accepted business practice in 2012. If you have the money to buy a politician he will vote in your favor first time everytime. Why would Fullerton or Anytown, USA be different? Do you think we operate on a different level than, let’s say, Mexico? If you do you are only fooling yourself. Mexico is just more honest about it. Down there if a cop pulls you over you hand him a couple Jackson’s and he give you a wink and a nod. Here we pay through the nose in taxes so cops can retire @ 50 with huge million dollar pensions. I prefer the Mexican way myself. To single out one ‘donor’ is disingenuous and ignores the very design of the American system!
in Mexico, the “middle man” is removed and you pay the fine directly to the police.
You got it, van.
Instead we Californians pay $450 fines for rolling stops, our insurance goes up 20%, plus we have to finance million dollar plus pensions for cops starting at age 50 or 55.
What system do you like better? Our system or the Mexican system?
Problem is they aren’t moving. They are getting raises and staying. They just raise tuition to be able to afford the professors.
You realize public employees weren’t considered “high paid” 5 years ago? They were fairly compensated even compared to the private sector. Now that wall street has been blamed, real estate has been blamed, banks have been blamed, and all the free money for the private sector, now the only thing left is the public employees.
All fair game. I just think your expectation that public employees are going to get or take 50% pay cuts is a dream. You wouldn’t do that if you were a public employee either.
“I just think your expectation that public employees are going to get or take 50% pay cuts is a dream. You wouldn’t do that if you were a public employee either”
The layoffs and pay cuts in government should have been IDENTICAL to what we found in the private sector post-2008.
But they weren’t. The economic meltdown barely left a mark on most government slugs. And that’s the truth. They are the equivalent of the communist party members (w/special privileges) and the rest of us are the proletariat who must pay for their excesses whether we like it or not.
There’s some more raw truth for ya.
“The layoffs and pay cuts in government should have been IDENTICAL to what we found in the private sector post-2008.”
Isn’t wanting everybody to be equal the primary idea of the communist ideology you think is responsible for all of our problems?
I don’t know about you but I have some very wealthy friends, all in the private sector of course. The economic crisis didn’t hurt them one bit.
“Isn’t wanting everybody to be equal the primary idea of the communist ideology you think is responsible for all of our problems?”
No it’s not. The ‘equality myth’ perpetuated by the communist party was far from what was practiced in the old soviety union. Communist Party members were showered with special pay and benefits that non-party members were excluded from. Very similar to how public workers (including college profs) are given benefits in American society that few in the private sector see. So there is a correlation to what I said.
“I don’t know about you but I have some very wealthy friends, all in the private sector of course. The economic crisis didn’t hurt them one bit”
Yes, they are generally referred to as the 1% who are protected by the government. My focus was on the 99% who must pay for all the excesses but get little or nothing in return but stagnant wages and job losses. See how it works now?
Of course communism as practiced was completely corrupt and was anything but equal. Much like George Orwell’s Animal Farm. But the idea that social inequality SHOULD be erased is an essentially Marxist idea, right? I think you are right about the 1% of course. I guess what you are trying to say is:
Lower level private workers < lower level public workers < higher level public workers < the 1% who are higher level private workers.
If that's what you are saying we have no major disagreement though I think the lower level public workers are only very slightly better off than than lower level private workers.
And among the public sector there is a lot of variability between jobs and positions. The administrative class are the most overpaid.
Clownselman Shittaker discovered dumpster diving through various rollaways on Fullerton city property…………
Clownselman Shittaker said, “if you get past the dirty diapers and bloody tampons it’s not so bad, there’s government waste to be discovered in these dumpsters. Just this morning I found latex gloves that were only slightly used and a perfectly good typewriter in working condition”.
Shittaker said the backlot of the police department is one of his favorite hunting grounds, “I have found the dumpster in the backlot of the PD to be the best place to hunt and gather, me and Seasea get exclusive diving rights to it because we are on the Clownsel. We told Hughes we are diving in there daily and Cheif Hughes said…..”Ok”.
Dean Kelly who is currently homeless has filed a lawsuit claiming preferential treatment for elected officials and lack of public access to the PD dumpster which is not accessible to the general public.
Dean Kelly said, “What those two guys are doing is not fair” and with that Dean spun around clicked his platform shoes and shit his pants.
We will be following this story for any breaking developments.
The FPOA weighs in.
Stop it. We’re talking about a university here, something you know nothing about. When the conversation turns to GEDs and monster truck rallies you may return to share your wisdom.
You must be kidding Freddie boy. This blog never stays on topic and even if it did why do you feel a responsibility to defend council members dumpster diving?
I have not met a communist professor in some time. On the other hands, I have met plenty of capitalist ones. Many of them come up with the economic theories that contemporary capitalism is predicated upon. If you find any communists at CSUF let me know.
“I have not met a communist professor in some time”
Oh, I am not saying card carrying communists. That would be too obvious. I mean college profs that teach with a communist-like ideologies. I met many of those in my college experience. And word has it they are still abundant on college campuses.
DeVry doesn’t count as a “college experience”.
You wouldn’t be allowed at my alma mater campus to clean the heads in the john. 😀
Communism has transformed NSC under the neo plan. Here’s the source in the US and something to be aware of in Fullerton as this hellish Keynesian vortex is opening up in your local government.
The Baptists organized in Amsterdam (1609) shortly after the formation of the Masons late 1500, which I attribute this religion to an attempt to subordinate the Vatican. The connection here is the EU Masons fairly rapidly moved on a hybrid BDSM/pedophilia culture which although mirrored that of the Vatican was also competitive with it.
Protestantism ensued on the heel of separatism with the Church of England seceding from the Vatican with a subsequent rise in the Baptist church throughout Europe and having made a presence in the colonies and eventually the Southern states after US secession from England. In this phase of development, the Masons had increased there grip on England’s power elite, made a presence in the US and were rebuffed by republic minded founders who created laws to limit this organization’s powers in the Bill of Rights, particularly the 2nd Amendment.
The Baptists nonetheless continued to press themselves into US domestic infrastructure largely ignored as the US had thus concerned itself with stopping the Catholic church, which the latter was prohibited from forming out of fear it would restore European control of the US to Britain. In this scenario, the EU Masons made their first appearance in the US as a dynamic function of domestic infrastructure through the Baptist church which dates to Amsterdam 1609 having later officially established itself in the US in 1905. The Church of England gave us the Mormon church, and the latter is a Knights of Malta entity.
Both the Mormon and Baptist churches are a function of the Church of England, and this is confirmed cartographically with a giant pentagram etched in the landscape near Buckingham palace which inverted lines up perfectly on Amsterdam. This pentagram is also a cartographic linear function of US abductions, hence EU SSO involvement in institutionalization of occult rendition to resource ritual sacrifice involving resourcing BDSM/pedophilia entertainment with products acquired in the US, and Partridge/Bobo confirm this.
These religions are rooted in Egyptian mythology and have as their mainstay a philanthropic function (Amen), sacrificial function (Ra) and propaganda function (Toth), hence their real identity Amen-Ra Toth, Lucifer, or Druidism. They use the bible, because this is rooted in the same mysticism from which their hybrid was formed. The bible was written by the council of Nicaea in 325 AD and was used to acculturate people to ritual human sacrifice competitive with the BDSM/pedophile culture which this was engineered to aggrandize. This culture reinvented itself via the Baptist and Mormon churches and has grown beyond this to include the Nazarenes and the Ankh, the latter of which is Obama’s name embedded identity.
In reality, Britain never had a plan for the US prior to 1650 other than as an occupied territory under Her influence. An agenda for the colonies magnified with commerce realized as a source of income for the king of England, a reality bred in the mind of the East India trading company cum Bohemian Grove and which institutionalized in the US as a think tank for Britain concurrent with the rise of the Baptist and Mormon churches and subsequent institutionalization of eugenics SSO, Atramental Lodge 23 (DC, 1890/Whitechapel). The latter has been memorialized as Stone House hunting Lodge, a structure 13 miles south of Marriott/Chantilly. The latter is a Mormon temple, by the way.
These organizations were conceived for the sole purpose of resourcing BDSM/pedophilia for entertainment with philanthropic organizations such as NCMEC both mollifying the public and servicing product demand. Laurie Partridge, Holly Bobo and Kelly Thomas are product examples.
While the Masons currently have a reputation for global dominance in occult affairs of state, in the US this was to have been contained by the Bill of Rights. While some secrecy will always be a function of government, the federalist scheme limited this while the nationalist one is magnifying it. We lost our moral compass when we began following mainstream religions created by and affiliated with the Vatican, period, and occult rendition will likewise continue to be a problem until people are willing to see reality behind this macabre sociopath activity.
You are losing control of your local government to this corruption. The monarchy want California vacated, and your ignorance and petty fighting on this issue is greasing the cute.
Are you unable to argue without resorting to insulting people? It seems so. If you want to debate, I’ll debate. If you want to sling mud, rely on ad hominem attacks, etc. I’ll pass. I think you need your own blog, so that you can control all thought and nobody can disagree with you without being banned.
I am insulting the university administrations and staffs because they work with the bankers to turn these poor kids into debt slaves with $50,000, $75,000 or $100,000 student loans when they have a hard time finding a $12/hr job with their worthless diplomas! They coax these poor kids into taking loans while feeding them with false expectations! And it’s all done to keep the enrollment up so that the adminstrations and staffs can continue to draw their lofty salaries and benefits. That’s the honest to God truth, Jt. If it’s not then tell me YOUR side of the story. Let’s hash this out. From my perspective the universities are taking advantage of these unsophisticated and naive kids to line their own pockets. It’s a form of highway robbery since a good percentage of these kids will never find the jobs that they are lead to believe with their college diplomas, many of which are practically worthless in the job market!!!
What’s your counterpoint to that?
Actually, I totally agree with that. But that’s not schools like the CSUs, that’s for profits mainly.
Just to clarify, I agree with all of that if you take out the word “staff.” The administrators and bankers, yep. Faculty and staff salaries are not exorbitant, in general. Van said it well above about how much we pay faculty compared to police and firefighters.
That was entertaining!
It’s been awhile since I have seen Dean Kelly. But those platform shoes were a classic. And that curly almost fro looking hair.
Liar. You are hooked on any medium in which tour dreary name appears.
Your right, you goaded me back into it with your feisty repartee. Every time I think I’m out, you pull me back in!
No, actually, you desperately need someone challenging your groupthink here or you guys will stop thinking entirely. And I do regularly get into decent discussions here, despite you and some others. I do regret that we can’t concentrate more on those areas where we agree, like drug policy — but in my opinion that inability seems to be mostly a function of your amusingly thin skin and belief that I’m easily cowed.
I suppose that you haven’t changed your mind about donating to my campaign, have you? Huh? Huh? Hahahaha.
P.S. Diamond, a “dreary name”? Sir, my family PAID for this name! How much did “Bushala” cost?
Golems don’t go away.
I don’t understand what you consider a good University I guess. But let’s just drop it, because at this point I don’t think I want to know.
Greg, markets rise and fall. This current fall was largely exagerated in its severity by government ignoring its proper role in proper regulation of the mortgage industry by climbing into bed with it and controling it by congressonal decree and by backing by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
I was clear in 2004 that a bubble of unprecendented magnitude existed and was about to burst. I prepared for this; in fact began to prepare in 1985. What I did not know until 2010 was that the bubble progressed through 2006 supported by fraud that was overlooked and participated in by the federal government.
Add on top of this the CSUF arrangement with several restrictions that did not necessarily line up with market realities, and you can blame government.
Government has its necessary and proper role. You can blame government when it exceeds its role.
That may well be, Steve — but the case against the wisdom of government in the housing market would be a lot stronger if private industry hadn’t screwed up, at about the same time, so very, very badly.
I still have serious concerns about the housing market here, which is why I actually haven’t yet bought a house (despite my comedy stylings above.) One of my main worries is water here, what with the prior claims by other states on water to our east. I love SoCal, but I worry about it — and I’ve seen too many friends lose their nest eggs.
I’m just too tired to get into the Freddie/Fannie discussion with you, but when you’re talking about the problem of the regulatory capture of the housing market by the mortgage industry we are mostly on the same page.
wtf is up with ron? why does he support corrupt pigs all of a sudden? Why is buddys with dan hughs? and why the fuck hasn’t joe wolfe been charged!!! It was pretty fucking sad to hear Ron say he supports the fpd!!!
HE IS NOT THE MAN I THOUGHT HE WAS
You have no idea what this is all about do you. Why the fuck do you even bother posting here. If you have a question for Ron, I’m sure you can find him just like everyone else. Oh wait, I forgot, the majority of you have no common sense now do you?
Pot meet kettle.
Ron Thomas has the right to make wrong choices. I never heard Ron Thomas say he was the final authority on the ethics/morality of fullerton PD.
Ron Thomas has the right to voice his beliefs. However, the facts stand alone; beating a man to death in full view of the public, perjury, collusion with the Fullerton city council to hide their civil rights abuses, molesting female detainees, false arrest and more perjury that led to imprisionment, suspicious jail suicide. Millions of city of fullerton $ paid out in legal settlements to the civil rights victims of the Fullerton PD.
Anyone may stand up for the Fullerton PD, but the facts stand up for the truth that Fullerton PD has a plentiful history of civil rights abuses and is corrupt.
My opinion on the FPD
These facts
This discussion is all very interesting…
I was a junior at CSUF in the Fall of 2003. I had extra units to burn on electives, so I chose an online GEOG 100 class taught by frequent FFFF commenter “Jt”.
He expended the LEAST amount of effort out of any professor I ever had. It was so bad that it wouldn’t have mattered if his Ph.D. and research came from Walmart.
We participated in an online chat session maybe once per week for 30 or 60 minutes after reading the textbook and teaching ourselves the material. He had the audacity to outsource grading and other menial duties to his graduate student TA, even though we barely interacted with him in the first place. I believe this was the class where the professor wouldn’t take questions from students…you had to ask the TA for help.
So don’t come on here with your bullshit, Jt, crying about “quality” faculty when you yourself choose not to live up to that standard.
I wasn’t impressed then and I’m less impressed now.
from a norm sample of one experience generalize to all?
Here is my experience at CSU Fullerton and UC Irvine, both public universities. No matter what level of class I took, it was taught by a professor with a Ph.D. from well-respected universities. When I went to college, online format did not exist, so we had to particpate in discussions or at least ask one or two relevant questions during the course.
I read at least 300 pages a week from a variety of sources, for my courses, furiously took notes from the lectures that seemed to cram as much info and insight as possible into each meeting, and then synthesized lectures and readings into papers that were due every three to four weeks.
Needless to say, I got my money’s worth because these universities did not believe I should pass because I paid the fee .
CSU system = diploma mill.
Where did you get your degree?
Feel free to contact me personally if you want to elaborate on you complaints. I always take questions from students. I would defend my teaching record to anyone but I don’t usually need to. Suffice it to say my classes consistently score about as high as possible in student evaluations. GEOG 100 not as much as upper division ones, because the students who get the most out of my classes are the ones who love to learn. Anyway, this wasn’t and shouldn’t be about me. Or for that matter, you.
I don’t remember much more from 2003 to provide you any feedback. Seeing as how you didn’t own up to your hypocrisy isn’t surprising though.
Student evaluations have always been a joke, and even more so in your case because you have TA’s doing all your GEOG 100 work for you. You have them to thank if your evaluation scores are as high as you claim them to be.
So, yes, it’s totally relevant when someone like you comes along talking about wages and the importance of “quality” faculty when you yourself are largely MIA. I don’t have a problem with professors teaching online classes, but if you’re going to do it, put some effort into it for crying out loud. Stop being so lazy and earn your paycheck for a change.
Seeing as you didn’t provide your name I have no reason to believe that anything you say is true. So yes, its totally relevant when some anonymous poster on a blog comes along criticizing a professor for a class he can’t remember anything from. I guess you probably remember the course material about as well. I teach about 300 students a year and a few of them have complaints – usually the one who didn’t so well. Like I said, if you want to talk about it you know where to find me.
You know what I said is true.
That’s why you never denied farming out your GEOG 100 responsibilities to TA’s.
Yes, my TA’s graded your scantron multiple choice questions. I graded your discussion essays. And your point is…..?
Your TA’s are tasked with much more and you know it.
Oh yeah, I’m a real slave-driver. My TA’s grade multiple choice exams and map quizzes and sometimes respond to student questions which are usually along the lines of “is it going to be on the test?” “Do I really have to do all the reading?” “My computer isn’t working, what do I do?”
TAs are supposed to work for the University 10-20 hours per week but I seldom give them anywhere close to that amount of work. As a TA for 8 semesters when I was a grad student I had sole responsibility for classes of up to 80 students, with no help or support. I did a hell of a lot more work as a TA than any TA I’ve ever supervised as a faculty member. And I never complained once about it, in fact it helped make me into an experienced teacher and later helped me find a job.
If you weren’t happy with your experience in the class you allegedly took from me, I’m sorry to hear that, but the time to have talked to me about it would have been a little closer to then. I don’t hold students hands and walk them through their courses, so if that’s your complaint, guilty as charged. My online classes don’t have all the direct interaction of my in-person ones and I’ll freely tell that to anybody who asks, but that’s the nature of the beast. Anyway, you picked a totally inappropriate forum to talk about this on. Come on over and see me whenever you want but I’m not going to justify myself further to an anonymous person firing off one-liners on a blog.
Hey Admin, didn’t the City break all the rules and give CSUF a ton of concessions to build these? I thought part of the deal was that the State could never sell them or else they (CSUF) would have to pay a pile of development fees which were all, or nearly all, deferred.
Subsidize? They are public universities. They are going to be subsidized any way you look at it unless they become privatized.
Of course people teach because they like to and not for the money. Does that mean it should be volunteer work?
JT, why do taxpayers subsidize your (fellow PhD) housing? Because the PhDs aren’t paid enough? How much is enough? How much higher does tuition need to rise to pay for PhD housing?
Christian, what proportion of my fellow PhD’s housing is subsidized? 1%? .05? Are faculty at the CSUs paid enough? No. How much is enough? I don’t know. How about the national mean? We’re below that. How much do you get paid at your job and how much would be enough for you? Tuition is rising because the state budget for the CSUs is shrinking while enrollment is increasing. I’m not in favor of higher tuition but if you think that is under faculty’s control you’re deluded.
Each state is different and each University is different. In some states the pensions are not defined benefit. And yes, in some cases private universities pensions are defined benefit. Private universities generally pay considerably higher salaries. Public salaries vary tremendously by geographic area. Salaries even vary greatly within Universities by discipline and a bunch of random factors.
In case this is hard to read, first column is Public, 2nd is private, 3rd is private-religious.
Average Salary for Full-Time Faculty, by Category, Affiliation, and Academic Rank, 2011-12
Category Public Private,
Independent Private,
Religious
Doctoral
— Professor $120,955 $162,561 $132,998
— Associate Professor $82,777 $101,954 $90,606
— Assistant Professor $71,465 $89,307 $76,877
–Instructor $47,207 $61,096 $63,284
— Lecturer $54,369 $65,610 $56,584
Master’s
— Professor $88,940 $103,094 $92,047
— Associate Professor $71,025 $77,359 $72,095
— Assistant Professor $60,656 $65,046 $60,338
–Instructor $44,631 $51,850 $49,552
— Lecturer $48,327 $56,745 $54,104
Baccalaureate
— Professor $84,524 $101,568 $77,418
— Associate Professor $69,021 $75,106 $62,775
— Assistant Professor $57,348 $61,307 $53,138
–Instructor $46,682 $49,901 $44,696
— Lecturer $49,534 $58,993 $43,322
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/04/09/aaup-releases-faculty-salary-data
Salary by itself is irrelevant. Please show us total compensation.
I can’t find that data. I searched for private universities with defined pensioned plans and found some like Georgetown. Anybody can do this research so I suggest doing it yourself.
Georgetown’s pension plan is closed to new employees and frozen for everyone else.
Feel free to look into other private universities pension plans and report back to us. It wasn’t me who posed the initial question.
……….. Hmmmmmm
How about: “You are fucking anger driven asshole.”
That should keep you shut… Huh? Golem?
Well, I’m sure that from your perspective it was worth a try.
Good night, Stanley.
So in other words your statements are meaningless?…… Golem?
Who is “Golem?”
The Golem is Jewish superman.
http://www.google.com/search?q=golem+of+the+Prague&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=8GEqUNqvHOL-iwKrwIDoBQ&ved=0CFMQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=573
Made of mud? Okay.
Stanley is apparently of the opinion that if he knows enough Eastern European Jewish folklore it proves that he is not anti-Semitic. He has some odd opinions — but at least he posts them under his own name here!
Virtually everyone here agrees that you are very, very, very stupid person, Golem. So your anti-Semitic crapola may not fly here because this is not Orange Juice where such idiotic thinking is tolerated by Gröfaz.
Golem of the Prague is history and tourist attraction like Mickey Mouth in Anaheim — you moron mongoloid — and no one thinks that it has anything to do with anti-Semitic expression. See pictures and study the text you ignoramus.
EU is very strict on that.
You are simply using your Jewishness to harass people like everything else you do. That is all.
You think that you have some special power to call everyone anti-Semitic and that people will soil their pants when you do that.
On the other hand not every Jew is Einstein and you are the proof of it.
If you do not wan to be addressed by your Jewish culture do not advertise it and say that you are an American.
When you came to OJ first thing you have post was “I am Jewish”…… so you are Jewish!…… so shut up idiot!
I have no problem if anyone would refer to me as Czech Fiala or Bohemian Fiala since Czech Republic is referred to as Bohemia.
FYI, the Bohemia is not Eastern Europe but Central one….. uneducated idiot.
I have no information to expressly condemn nor support jt. I do have perspective as someone who worked his way down from UC Davis (3.6 GPA), to CUSF (3.9 GPA) to Fullerton College (4.0 GPA) to dropping out (blessed relief and have not regretted it in 35 years).
It was not until my younger brother became a professor at a top university after 14 years of university work as a student that I realized that a professor and a teacher are different things, and different at each level of institution.
At UC Davis, there were 400 students in Chemistry 1A. I listened to the professor, read the book he wrote, called out a verbal error he made in front of 400 students, for which he thanked me, and talked to him once briefly in the hall. There were about 20 TA’s who lead lab, and this is who we interacted with on a day to day basis. Mine made me quit chemistry as a profession (although I aced the class) and did not do anything to prevent me from leaving UC Davis.
At CSUF, the professors were more like the teachers I had known at Fullerton High, and at Fullerton College they were called teachers and not professors. And teach they did.
As a college-bound high school student, the high school teachers and couselors prepared me to qualify for university. The recruiters tried to get me. No one tried to explain to me what higher education really was or what the working world really was. Then again, how would they know? They were living in a dream world of their own!!!!!!!!!
I can’t imagine anyone going through greater dissillusionment with the world of higher education than I have, and I continue to be disillutioned with government and the other institutions of the world.
Then again, I have come to realize that those who disillusion you are often the best teachers. Real fear is not when you look around for knowledge and can find no good teacher. Real fear is when you look around for knowledge and realize that there is no one who knows more on the subject than you.
Excellent post Steve Brow. Many parents and students are concerned about the value of a college education where huge sums need to be borrowed to stay in school.
Although I have very little sympathy for the beneficiaries of a grossly subsidized “education” I would point out that one of the reasons CSU and UC educations are so expensive is the runaway cost of their bureaucracies and an underemployed professoriat.
The TA scandal in public universities is unconscionable. If you don’t know what this means, I’ll spell it out: the deployment of 22 year-olds to teach 20 year-olds. It’s a goddam disgrace.
If K-12 did its job you wouldn’t need TAs to teach students the remedial stuff they should know before they ever get inside a University. That being said I know some 22-year olds who could teach a few seniors more than a thing or two. And if you don’t want public universities enjoy your 785-branch campus University of Phoenix franchise, where a diploma is always another soul-crushing, debt-incurring, private bank loan away and all the “knowledge workers” use the same books so as not to muddy the corporate waters too much.
‘Tis true.
Jt, I’m sure there are some really competent 22 year old TAs out there. However, the idea of recent graduates being put in a position of providing non-lecturing instruction or grading papers to lower division undergrads is quite deplorable.
Bad for the TAs or undergrads? The TAs get paid about $800 per month to grade or lecture or help students with technical stuff for 20 hours per week. This is while they’re fulltime grad students. The best ones sometimes also get internships to help an instructor at a JC. After they get their grad degrees if they’re good we’ll hire them to teach classes for us. That can then turn into fulltime teaching or a permanent position with a JC. It’s a merit-based apprenticeship basically. I only use TAs for basic remedial-type 100 classes myself. As a former TA at 2 other universities it worked for me.
Bad for the undergrads, of course.
Oh, I missed the “grading papers” – yeah, I agree. TA’s are fine for running scantron sheets through the scanner but grading papers, not so much.