Fullerton’s $100,000 Pension Club Increases Girth by 41%
Here’s a republication of a post from early November. It details the extravagant pension payouts bestowed upon Fullerton employees. Of particular note are the number of rank and file cops and firemen on the list. How did they get there? Courtesy of enormous salaries and of course the disastrous 3@50 formula approved by Council barnacles Bankhead and Jones. That single decision created a massive unfunded actuarial liability that is the legal responsibility of every citizen of Fullerton.
And there’s Pat McPension, the architect of the FPD Culture of Corruption, who makes $121K off of us each year for doing nothing.
This list will no doubt receive a lot of attention during the recall campaign
– Joe Sipowicz
Originally published November 4, 2011
Another year has passed and another set of City of Fullerton retirees have added to the growing unfunded pension liability that will plague us for generations. In fact, membership has swelled by a startling 41% this year alone.
The most notable new member is retired City Manager Chris Meyer, who has plopped himself in the second spot with a $170,984.52 per year reward for all the time he spent carefully overlooking the mismanagement of the Fullerton PD and the vast expansion of the city’s pension debt.
Meyer was spotted at yesterday’s anti-recall fundraiser, too. That’s no surprise to us, since Bankhead and Jones did attempt a retroactive pension spike in 2008 that would have sent Meyer’s own pension into orbit just a few years before his exit.
| Name | Annual | Position |
| JAMES “JIM” REED | $ 173,524.32 | Fire |
| CHRISTOPHE “CHRIS” G MEYER | $ 170,984.52 | City Manager |
| KAREN LINDSEY-MACDONALD | $ 165,285.48 | Police |
| GREGORY E MAYES | $ 156,047.40 | Police |
| JOHN T PETROPULOS | $ 152,784.60 | Police |
| GEOFFREY L SPALDING | $ 151,770.96 | Police |
| JOHN S GODLEWSKI | $ 145,499.04 | Community Development Director |
| DANIEL F CHIDESTER | $ 145,049.28 | Fire |
| MICHAEL C MAYNARD | $ 144,678.00 | Police |
| GARY M DOMINGUEZ | $ 143,618.76 | Fire |
| ALLEN W BURKS | $ 139,186.44 | Police |
| FRANK P DUDLEY | $ 139,120.44 | Development Services Director |
| DOUGLAS L CAVE | $ 136,626.96 | Police |
| ANTONIO H HERNANDEZ | $ 132,549.36 | Police |
| H S HUNT | $ 131,591.40 | Parks and Rec Director |
| STEVEN M MATSON | $ 130,359.84 | Police |
| RONNY T ROWELL | $ 130,225.32 | Police |
| GLENN L STEINBRINK | $ 129,608.16 | Administrative Director |
| MARK H FLANNERY | $ 125,723.64 | Director of Personnel |
| RICHARD W RILEY | $ 125,304.00 | Fire |
| DAVID J STANKO | $ 125,147.04 | Police |
| TERRY W STRINGHAM | $ 125,062.80 | Fire |
| ROBERT E HODSON | $ 124,810.08 | Director of Engineering |
| ROBERT “BOB” B RICHARDSON | $ 123,441.48 | Police |
| GEORGE E NEWMAN | $ 122,964.60 | |
| DANIEL R BECERRA | $ 121,643.64 | Police |
| NEAL R BALDWIN | $ 121,363.80 | Police |
| DAVID M DUNCAN | $ 121,131.96 | Fire |
| ALFRED R CASAS | $ 120,549.96 | Police |
| PATRICK E MCKINLEY | $ 120,381.96 | Chief of Police |
| PHILIP A GOEHRING | $ 119,719.92 | Police |
| TERRENCE L SCHULZ | $ 118,629.84 | Fire |
| BRAD A HOCKERSMITH | $ 118,629.48 | Fire |
| BONNIE J CLANIN | $ 118,302.12 | Police |
| JEFFREY E ROOP | $ 118,198.20 | Police |
| DONALD R PEARCE | $ 112,341.96 | Police |
| CAROLYN E JOHNSON | $ 111,509.88 | Library Director |
| TIMOTHY JANOVICK | $ 111,069.12 | |
| KURT J BERTUZZI | $ 110,653.56 | Fire |
| PAUL C TURNEY | $ 110,022.00 | |
| RONALD B GILLETT | $ 109,764.48 | Police |
| LINDA J KING | $ 109,553.40 | Police |
| ARTHUR D WIECHMANN | $ 108,368.40 | Police |
| JONATHON E MCAULAY | $ 106,163.76 | Fire |
| JOHN W PIERSON | $ 105,626.04 | Police |
| VICKI L MAGLIOCCO | $ 105,533.40 | Fire |
| GREGORY E ABERCROMBIE | $ 105,351.00 | Police |
| WILLIAM D KENDRICK | $ 105,310.92 | Police |
| RICHARD A HUTCHINSON | $ 104,986.56 | Fire |
| HUGH L BERRY | $ 104,544.12 | Assistant City Manager |
| MARVIN B WILDER | $ 102,941.64 | |
| MICHAEL L BURGES | $ 101,931.00 | |
| MICHAEL L FIELDS | $ 101,318.52 | Police |
| CHRIS P HARRIS | $ 100,730.64 | Fire |
| KENNETH R HEAD | $ 100,526.40 | Police |
| Total Monthly | $568,146.80 | |
| Total Annually | $6,817,761.60 |
Source: CFFR Pension Database
Somewhere down the road, there isn’t going to be any money left in the pension funds to pay all these fat cats!! Then they can all go out and get a job at 7-11.
Please understand that these are contracts. They will be paid before many other budget items at the State level as they have tremendous protections built into them. As long as the house of cards has a roof and walls the wind cant blow it out.
Argentina, while not the only example, had an economy very similar to ours. Look what happened to it. If you dont know I suggest you do some research as it there is a ton of info on it out there. They had manufacturing, agriculture, technology, education, a strong service sector etc. They had unions, collective bargaining, defined benefit plans and retirement plans. They HAD a strong middle class as well. Tragically they had very corrupt leaders. For reasons time and space here limits me to detail, the house of cards came tumbling down over there and it all blew out. The banks closed and people lost everything. When THIS happens these pensions will not be paid. We are heading down the same road for many reasons both similar and different. Kicking the can down the road always turns the can into junk for the scrap heap. Our leaders are even more corrupt than Argentina’s were. Like I have said before-there is a reset button and the unions dont have any idea how to keep it from being pushed. What will matter at that point is what you are truly made of as that will be all that will sustain you. I get the feeling that City Hall should have been over off of Acacia and Dorothy. That is where the ostrich farm used to be. I guess they decided to tear it down and put on Commonwealth and Highland instead.
“Please understand that these are contracts.”
Yes, and contracts can be negated in a bankruptcy case. Fullerton, and several other Orange County cities (Santa Ana comes to mind), are on the road to bankruptcy due to bloated pensions, and bloated police and fire costs.
Bankruptcy court can end these costs for current charges. The rest comes out of Cal Pers which is in much worse shape than Cal STRS that handles educators.
You can tell how poorly a city is administered by the % of current budget that is expended on current police and fire. The leftovers is for all the other city services combined. A study was released by Chapman University Masters of Public Administration department on the status of Orange County cities.
Two of the worst? Did you say Fullerton and Stanton? Some of the best? Irvine and Cypress.
Add all the other Calif counties to your list. All the same.
Cal pers bad shape? Really?
Dear Elwood – Are you sure BK will negate these pension contracts? I heard (from a former govt insider) that these type of contracts are exempt from BK?
Travis, you know you are so fucking stupid, and inept. The City Manager’s pension is really $192,000. Even PERS can’t get it right….yup that is what the checks amount to. If he was still working, after taxes, his pay would be $.82 cent per hour. Do you get why he retired, pay of less than $7.00 a day and he has to put up with the five morons he worked for…
I just publish the numbers that CalPERS puts out. It’s not my fault if they’re understated.
If Meyer is so concerned, tell him to send over a copy of his pension pay stub.
If the numbers put out by CalPERS are not correct WHY NOT?
Fullerton taxpayers and people have the right to know: Disclose Fullerton salary, pension, and all the perks.
You have nothing to hide from the people who paying you.
Fullerton needs to demand your right to know?
Oh man! I need to get me one of these gigs.
You should do some research on how much Fullerton actually paid into the fund over the last 10 years. You might be surprised. The future has expenses due to bad management at cities statewide. They should have saved the money over those years then they would have that money now. Nothing anyone can do about retirees. Changes are being made for the new employees. Complaining is easy. Who knows what the answer is.
“Who knows what the answer is.”
The answer is Soylent Green.
You need to qualify McKinley’s pension as being ON TOP OF HIS LAPD pension which I hear his ex-wife gets a piece of.
Not true. McKinley gives his ex-wife peanuts. He screwed her royal!
How? I am interested.
I guess she is no “she bear”.
I thought the other half of McKinley’s pension was from his years in LA.
An important point. These screwups layer their pensions so they can actually get rich off of the public payroll. Despicable.
You just said get rich. No one is near rich.
Yes, this is correct. Half of McKinley’s LAPD pension goes to his ex…..
One more time. This is not true. McKinley gives his ex-wife peanuts. He screwed her royal!
Guess she is no “she bear”.
I wonder if anyone with large pensions would be willing to volluntarily give some of the money back to the city.
That’s funny.
It’s ok to be idealistic and direct, and forthright. I would love to ask them each to publicly state for the record if they are willing to reduce their overpaid , overcalculated and fraudulent pensions by 30%, willingly. I would ask that question direct to their face and love to see their response. (fraudulent in that we all know they punch each other’s time clock cards, they boost their final year with overtime and other BS methods of jacking up that pension amount. Its a game, and they are all in the mudbath together playing it. Its criminal!
Answer = No. Cops aren’t overpaid. Sorry to break that to ya. FYI overtime and extra benefits have nothing to do with retirement pensions. Good try though.
If the motorcycle cop has a pension of over 100k per year, yes. Cops are overpaid. NO WAY that job warrants a paycheck like that, let alone a pension of that amount. Sorry to have to butt heads, but where did this entitled attitude come from? Social security is how much? And a public employee wants over 100k per year for doing what? The old adage was, you go to work for the gov’t, it doesnt pay thatwelll but at least the work is guaranteed and steady. They rest of us actually hustle for a living. Maybe making a lot more, but taking the risk of making less. Public employees hookwinked some one into overpaying them a ways back, and now they’re making BANK. Way more than they should be. I think ALL public employees should receive an honest wage, but not fleece the system as they are currently doing. Its all going to end soon. We’re done letting gov’t workers take a ride.
Good luck. I don’t see overpaid. I see fair. Wages won’t change drastically. Fullerton even just signed a new contract.
Me thinks it’s time for the good doctor to analyze this character who goes by “Reality Is”.
Could he be a wordsmith for hire? Or is he jus play’n out his inner desire to be a 4F blogger.
O’Malley’s obviously a very lonely man. Drove all the way down from Claremont to visit with John and Ken.
You think you know too much. You are close but open your eyes and you might figure more out. I wasn’t any where near John n Ken, nor was O’Malley. You think he might be a little busy with the Dodgers right now? 🙂
Wages might not change. But pensions are another story. In the end bankruptcy will fix the problem. And we are coming to that in the next 3-4 years. These public employees could take a good haircut on their spiked pensions, but they are fighting it to the end.
And think of ALL the lovely PR and angry feelings people are going to have at teachers and State Workers when the bankruptcies happen. Greed is NOT good.
Reality Is, I know what the “answer” is; you need go stand in front of City hall at high noon and bend over for all those deserving heros. No real changes will be made until insider/beneficiaries like Mckinley and Bankhead are thrown out and replaced by people who haven’t sucked the government tit their whole life and have the brains to see thru Staff lies.
Ok.
True but it’s the same in every city in California regarding pensions, pay, and benefits. Changes at the state level might trickle down to the cities, but it will take years.
Fullerton PD just signed a new contract right? During all this turmoil and at the direction of FFFF they must have taken at least a 30% cut right?
True, that this is widespread. True that it is likely happening in every city in California. But the only one we live in is this one. The only one we have to focus our attention on getting back on track is this one. So lets set an example of routing out the criminals, and putting honest elected officials in place that dont take advantage of the system just because they can. (I know you know this….) just saying .. Thanks for the well thought out input from all those doing so.
me too
The pension amounts need to be corrected. I love the comment above “there is nothing you can do…” That attitude always makes me laugh, Of course there is something to be done. undo the wrongs, make the amounts come into alignment with reality, LOWER the pension payments. I do not agree to pay Meyer fatso 147k per year for the rest of his life. forget it. We’re coming for your pension, Chris! And McKinley, and all these other smug screwups.
Of course that’s what you want. You will never touch, adjust, or change any currently retired employees anywhere in California. The only thing you might change is new employees. Current employees you won’t be able to change anything up to this point (ie 20 years of work) but you have a very slim shot at changing the remaining years of current employees retirement packages (could happen after years of court battles, I don’t think it will happen).
That’s reality. 🙂
Those who are getting these inflated pensions arent talking. They are HOPING we all go away and stop threatening their little nest egg. You know who is really worried? All of the guys who had planned to ull the same stunt this year and next, seeing their little piece of heaven slowly slip away.
See my other post. No one is worried. You can’t touch em.
Well Chapter 9 bankruptcy is an option. It may come to that.
http://www.jonesday.com/files/Publication/4ddd9c7a-d436-4d0b-b730-2ae65ab8da57/Presentation/PublicationAttachment/0072dbab-09ee-4d8f-9a8d-6c6c848bf40f/eReadAttachment.pdf
If you are reading this…. if you are one of the ones fattening yourselves off of City pensions, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Forget that it was “legal”. you KNEW it was wrong. Down deep, there is something wrong with getting so much retirement pay and you KNEW it was wrong. “but everyone is doing it”. baloney. You knew it was wrong and you will have to live with your own little nagging conscience. Sleep well. The city is in financial ruin because of your greed.
You really believe that? No one thought it was wrong. Ever. It was pay and benefits and retirement statewide provided by the people you elected. Why would any employee think that’s wrong? Not one person ever will or did or does think wrong. That’s reality.
And you are crazy!
Duh.
Youre totally right “Reality is”. Youre totally correct. I was trying to create a crack in their armor of denial, but youre probably right. It would be too much to admit that down deep you were part of the problem. Ignorance is bliss. Youre right. (wonder what the heck Jane H is talking about?)
Just sayin how the thought process is and has been. Pay n benefits consistent with economy for years. Now with crash everyone claims fraud. Quiet then, loud now. It is what it is. Change? Sure.
I am only taking issue with someone who is not really sincere, namely Reality Is. That’s all. I hate sneaky.
I understand. Surprisingly, I’m always 100% sincere and honest. Always.
Maybe you are sincere, and that is even more frightening.
“Reality Is” is the screen name of any number of Fullerton cops who take turns at the console. They’re operating out of a cyber crimes office at FPD devoted to monitoring online threats, including blogs like this one whose opinions run counter to the FPD agenda.
The arrogant asshole we were seeing during the day was replaced around 3pm. So “sincere” is a relative term when you’re talking about infiltration. Sincerely wishes to get inside and monitor, even maniupulate. Not sincerely speaking around FPD agendas.
That is why they are saving their money. So they can have a nice little pile when it stops. We get to clean up their mess and get less and less city, county and state services due to their greed!
A lot of my relatives are retired teachers. One is a retired Principal. He pulls in 11,000 a month! He used his money to bail one of his kids out of an ugly divorce and buy him a house. He still has enough money to be a member of one of the most expensive country clubs in SOCAL on the retirement. He also drives two expensive luxury cars and his wife shops and eats at the most expensive stores in town.
They keep quiet about the amount and still try to play the poor teacher. However, I looked up the amount he pulls in from the state database. Was totally surprised. He has been pulling in this amount since the early 2000s. He and a group of others spiked their salaries right at the perfect time. Plus they get cost of living. I did research and most of the $100,000 retirements are past 2001. That year was when the unions gamed the retirements and got them jacked through the roof. However, the dot.com bubble burst a year earlier so they really did not have the money to do this.
This is why I won’t be voting for any tax increase and will fight tooth and nail to save prop 13. They want to keep this game going as long as they can. One word: Bankruptcy
I keep seeing that guy waddling around city hall. I thought he was retired?
Retired collecting same pay at hourly wage for a year? 🙂
I hope that lard ass or his old lady runs as a replacement candidate in June. Bushala & FFFF would have a field day with signs, mailers, phone calls, etc…
probably earning extra tax dollars as a consultant to the city of fullerton
Prolly so.
lol
Like McKinley, Meyer needs those three idiots to keep voting for huge settlements to keep the evidence of his own mismanagement out of court records.
Reason TV: How a Local Blog Broke the Kelly Thomas Story
A conversation with Friends for Fullerton’s Future
http://reason.com/blog/2011/11/04/reason-tv-how-a-local-blog-broke-the-kel
excellent
I sincerely hope that Fullerton residents recognize the name “Gregory Abercrombie” who is being paid the outrageous sum of $105,000 per year, is the same motorcycle officer who just recently retired after spending his twilight years in the FPD consistantly pissing off motorists that were nabbed on the speed trap on Euclid Avenue right before Malvern.
$105,000 a year for life for being a motorcycle officer who camps out on Valley View all day with a radar gun?
RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL
I think this idiot pulled me over once a couple years ago when I was dropping off my kid at nearby Golden Hill school. He didn’t like the way I let my kid out of the car and said I was lucky I didn’t run my own kid over. His rant made no sense. He was a completely rude, condescending, arrogant prick! Had the grouchiest looking face/demeanor…like Scrooge… That him?
All motor cops are like that. Straight to the point. Sign here. An ticket sucks and is never pleasant.
Yes. He owned/operated the Euclid Avenue speed trap franchise for years, and just recently retired.
He apparently deeded over the franchise to Officer Francis right after the Kelly Thomas murder by the FPD, when he started taking heat from motorists and saw that the political climate here was changing and then he got out while the getting was good….. at $2,000 a week for life!
Something tells me that he’s not grumpy any longer, and is instead laughing all the way to the bank at all of our expense.
True that. 30 years of dedicated service to the citizens of Fullerton. Proud. 🙂
How could they be proud of pulling people over in a speed trap all day? Did you know that when someone that retires from the U.S. Armed Services with the same rank as Officer Abercrombie and the same time in service of 30 years that they’ll receive 75% of their base pay of $3000 per month or $2,250 a month.
When a motorcycle officer that sit’s on his duff in a residential neighborhood pointing a radar gun at motorists makes $2,000 a week while retired, or almost 4 times as much as a veteran of the U.S. armed services who is enlisted 24/7 and will never receive a dime of overtime, something is SERIOUSLY wrong with the way that Fullerton city officials are compensating their employees.
It’s not just Fullerton. It’s the PERS system. Statewide. Fullerton is part of that system. Go after the system. Fullerton isn’t leaving PERS.
Thanks…My experience with him that day always bothered me. I have to say in each of my few encounters with FPD over the years for minor traffic citations…always the same asshole, power-tripping attitude. One of those things I look back on and say…I wish I would have told him to go fuck himself. So I say it here…Officer Abercrombie…go fuck yourself, now that you got all that time on your hands.
Motor cops get told that often. It’s just normal conversation. I used to look them directly in the eye after they said it and smile, saying I love you too and I hope you have a wonderful day. Then walk away. 🙂
Wait for it….
Go fuck yourself!
Smile 🙂
and before you beat me to it…have a wonderful day
Thanks 🙂
Sorry to interrupt the discussion on bloated pensions, but that speed trap was instituted after my friend, Kathy Richardsson, was killed crossing Euclid at Fern Drive at the age of 21.
Sweet girl.
I always get the same blonde female officer pulling me over in her patrol car. Same one, over and over. Seat belts please, turn signal light out …. arent there any other cops in Fullerton that want to give me their time of day? I think she likes me…
Be careful. I hear Fullerton cops like to touchy feely. 🙂
I don’t always agree with you Reality Is, and I can sometimes find you a little arrogant, however I do always admire your honesty and candor… and sometimes even your wicked sense of humor : )
Likewise.
NEWS UPDATE…
Fed’s to charge 3 cops involved in the Kelly Thomas murder AFTER the District Attorney concludes his case.
TMZ? 🙂
NOPE!
link?
https://www.facebook.com/Justice4KellyThomas
How do you know? Tell us please.
Ron Thomas on the pre-trial hearing:
“This is open to the public, but again it should be a short hearing. The FBI has finished with their investigation, but can’t do anything until the DA is finished with their trial. After that, they will be filing charges on three of the six. The independent investigator has finished his admin review, and will now start on the conduct of the six cops and if the department did anything wrong.
I know that I have not wrote anything for awhile, but I’m still here working on my son’s case every day, and I do still need your support.
Thanks for all of your hard work and suport.”
Posted on the “Justice for Kelly Thomas” facebook page early this morning.
JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL!!
Fo Sho!!
The FBI will probably charge the one that was on the scene with Ramos before Cincinelli arrived. I always wondered why he wasn’t charged before?
while the city of fullerton increased pensions , fullerton’s revenue was dropping due to Hunts Foods and Hughes aircraft getting out of this wacky, tax wasting town. That leaves St Jude medical complex(medopolis) and CSU Fullerton. Thanks to Medi-Cal and student loans all funded by taxes form the private sector, fullerton’s tax base precariously perches on the economic
precipice.(Say the last six words real fast and over and over again).
Isn’t this what Greece is dealing with and imploding over?
Nothing we can do? Come now, we cannot print money out of thin air so SONNER or later the time to sit down and face the facts will come.
I hear talks about Social Security changes being implemented and this is a system that people have actually paid into or rather had $$$ taken from their paycheck with the promise that they will receive $$$ later in life.
🙁
Don’t tell me THAT is negotiable but the public employee pension cannot be touched.
Pfft.
You will see.
Great video guys!
‘Time to Catch Up’ with Councilwoman Quirk-Silva
Been too busy to keep track of what’s going on in your city? Well, here’s your “Time to Catch Up!”
“Time to Catch Up” is the title of informal gatherings held from 4-5 p.m. the second Wednesday of each month by Fullerton City Councilwoman Sharon-Quirk as part of her public outreach efforts.
The next gathering will be Wednesday, Nov. 9, and will be held at Steamers Café, 138 W. Commonwealth Ave., in downtown Fullerton.
Appointments are not necessary for the gatherings, and citizens are welcome to just drop in and meet with the councilwoman to discuss issues of concern or ask questions about city operations.
Further information about the program may be obtained by calling the City Council Office at Fullerton City Hall at (714) 738-6311.
Persons requiring special accommodations to attend the program are asked to notify the City Council Office staff prior to Nov. 9.
http://www.cityoffullerton.com/civica/press/display.asp?layout=1&Entry=2517
We aint worry….
Love your broken English. This is what we are paying for, friends. Illiterate dropouts soaking the City coffers. And hiding behind their union bosses. You should be “worry”. “we ain’t worry”… We’ll see about that.
Yes we will. 🙂
Things are changing right now. It’s what you can take away from the demonstrating going on globally. If you are one who wants things to stay the way they were, and for everyone to just “stop creating a ruckus”. Well you have your head in the sand. The demonstrations are happening because of the rife criminal financial raping of City, State and Federal coffers. It isnt going to be tolerated any longer and “the people” have had enough. So you better wise up people, stop ripping off the gov’t, and start working for a living.
Yea. Just like LA. No agenda, no leadership. Comes down to free transient camps. Refuse to eventually leave, arrests n riots. Oakland an example. Those people don’t even know why they are there. Progress? Sure.
You know, I resent your snide attitude toward young people who are trying to fix the crap you and your cronies have smeared all over the “American Dream.” You’re expecting to get your pension, probably with a convenient disability so you won’t have to pay taxes on it. Screw the kids trying to make something of THEIR future, right?
You’re only in here to give lip service to what people are changing their lives to accomplish for the benefit of everyone. Do us all a favor and drop your pretense – you don’t care a cat’s ass about Kelley Thomas or anyone else as long as you get your pension.
How did the public employees get their pay benefits and pensions? Yes. Go after those people.
Oh you know everything? Yes. Young n dumb. I love you though. 🙂
There you go again. “I’m just following orders. The bureaucrats made me do it. ”
But those stinking transients in Oakland who are being tear gassed and shot in the head with rubber bullets are radicals, so they don’t deserve a job. A job they can’t get one because there aren’t any.
I love you too, honey, but your lack of empathy for the downtrodden and disenfranchised makes you out to be an elitist. Allow me say it for you: “Let them eat cake!”
Back at ya. Throw shit at the police anywhere anyhow anywho, you are going to have issues. Don’t care if you are Occupy anyone or jobless JoeSmo. Try it.
This is not just a Fullerton issue…
Government at all levels, Federal, State, Local, are all out of control. We need to shrink government, not expand it, and until that starts to happen this is the kind of thing you can expect to continue. High taxation will feed wasteful spending and other misappropriation of funds until people wake up and demand an end to it!
The issue in Fullerton is but a microcosm of a much larger dilemma.
Agreed, high taxation is not the answer, we have exasperated the problem by importing poverty with our open borders and we cannot unrealistically support people who do not contribute to the system…..there is a fiscal breaking point and we are approaching it at break neck speed.
Some people will “eventually” come to realize the Titanic CAN sink…..
True enough. Thanks for posting. And for anyone who wants to cry “foul”, this is a matter of financial realism, not immigration or racism, or hate. Its just a fact.
True. Can.
Absolutely, this is a fiscal issue not a race issue.
I always ask the question when race is brought up…”What race is illegal?”
I ask because ANY race can and does come into the country illegally.
This is also a medical issue, we are dealing once again with TB, the people that came through Ellis Island understood why it was necessary to do so.
Fiscal mismanagement at all levels of government!
Yes, look at what is happening in Greece now, and also Italy and other European countries. That’s where Socialism lead… right down the drain! Wasn’t it Margaret Thatcher who said that the problem with Socialism is that sooner or later you run out of someone else’s money? Well, she was absolutely right!
Coming soon…. To the US 🙂
If we keep electing politicians who are only interested in the special interests, probably so!
Politics will never change.
Like democracy is such a sterling example of fiscal responsibility! We’re almost bankrupt because we owe the communists more than our economy is worth!
Cops are training right now at Fullerton JC. A HUGE class of police. Being taught take down procedures, and they are DREAMING of a 20 year career, after which they will be able to retire with well over 100k a year pension. Forget that they didnt put hardly as much into the program, they expect to take out a HUGE reward for their 20 year career. It’s what they recruit the kids with. Promises of a rewarding lifelong pension forever.
They are on the changed retirement program. 3% at 55.
Explain, 3% at 55 please. Thanks.
Retirement eligible at 55 instead of 50. 3% each year of service times final year base salary, no OT or extra benefits.
Thanks very much for the information. Best …
Pre-Trial Hearings For Manuel Ramos And Jay Cicinelli, Fullerton Cops Facing Charges In Kelly Thomas Killing, Continued Until Next Month
Ron Thomas, Kelly’s father, says he completely trusts the DA’s office, but that he will do his best to make sure there aren’t too many other continuations as the case makes its way through the system. “We allowed it to be continued today, after that we’re gonna put our foot down…I think defense is gonna string it out.”
Thomas, who sat only a few yards away from Ramos and Cicinelli, said it was very hard to maintain composure in the courtroom this morning.
“They’re going about business as usual and I don’t like that at all,” Thomas said. “Seeing them right beside me was tough.” As his eyes filled with tears, Thomas said, “It is what it is. I am a grieving dad. I want to kill them both. Am I gonna do that? No. But, my son was crying to me to save him from those two.”
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2011/11/pre-trial_hearings_for_manuel.php
How in the world is a $131K pension for a police offercier reasonable.
I would love to her Bernadino and company explain that.
These guys are anchors on government.
Which is ironic, because many liberal often want to provide more services to the downtrodden, well you know what, we could help EVERYONE if we got this back under control.
It isnt reasonable. Per Reality is, thats just the way it is and nothing can be done about it. I think Marie Antoinette thought the same thing right before the mobs came over the walls of the castle in France. There is no future certainty about all of this. And if these past pension amounts are weighting down the financials, then they will get amended. But it might take a MF’ing riot to enact such sweeping changes. I for one am completely for such change. Maybe California will go BK so they can then go in and amend the pensions appropriately. NOT what the current garage puttering retirees want to hear, but they shouldnt have participated in the looting in the first place. Sorry. Includes EVERYONE on the list above.
Good luck. Risk either gets reward or possible death. Looting would probably result in death seeing most store owners are ready. Try looting. 🙂
” Try looting. ”
Here’s another example of a policeman inciting citizens to commit criminal acts so he can beat the crap out of them and then arrest them. This thread is full of such taunts. Great PR, asshole!
No, it WILL take a riot. On a national level. Bloody and violent. But unfortunately, any riot that stems from peaceful hippie protestors is doomed to fail. Our nations situation (let alone Fullerton’s) is bound to get a lot worse before enough of the right minded folks will stand up and do what needs to be done.
That video was wonderful! It puts a more human touch on this whole situation. Keep up the good work.
Fatal shooting of man holding black nozzle was lawful, D.A. says
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-long-beach-shooting-20111104,0,2734213.story
This is from a news conference with Long Beach Police in 2010 regarding the shooting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ple6TRAOBYo
Both the video and the story together make quite an impact. Very tragic.
Very tragic. Expected no charges. Good shooting. Sad.
They had a sniper with a scope on this guy. You can see the color of a man’s eyes through the scope. How in the world was it not communicated that it wasn’t a gun?
Because everyone thought it was a gun. The whole time. So did citizens and residents.
Amen. That is truth.
A sniper yards away can see details that someone a few feet away cannot see. To say it wasn’t communicated because everyone thought it was a gun is total bs. The more I hear about it the more I’m convinced that man was executed just like Kelley Thomas.
I’ll put you on the rifle. Same distance. Same lighting. Same circs. I’ll rotate between a gun, plastic gun, bb gun, and a nozzle. I will guarantee you won’t know the difference. Keep in mind how he was holding it also the sniper is watching one thing the whole time. The head. One shot to kill. Let’s do this soon so I can prove you wrong again.
You perfectly explained why the man was killed instead of being disarmed. The sniper wasn’t looking to see what was in his hand because the untrained neighbors had communicated to the cops that he had a gun. The cops didn’t verify that, they took it as gospel truth. The sniper was not there to see what was in the man’s hand, he was there to blow a hole in the man’s head. And did so because the neighbor mistook a hose handle for a gun, and the cops didn’t bother to see if that was true or not. The sniper couldn’t care less what was in the man’s hand, he wanted to blow the guy’s head off.
And as for your claim that I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a gun and a nose nozzle, all I can say is LMFAO! I’ve used enough scopes to know when a drunk man is holding a nozzle it can definitely be distinguished between a gun. That is, if the sniper is trying to see it. The drunk wasn’t rotating nozzles, he was unaware of the cops approaching him. So your claim is patently ridiculous. Again.
Ok. My claim and everyone else that reviewed the actual facts of the case. You win. 🙂
The facts of the case are still being reviewed. Time will tell if the cops get a medal, or an indictment.
“The sniper couldn’t care less what was in the man’s hand, he wanted to blow the guy’s head off. ”
That may be closer to the truth. Many in law enforcement seem to really like their jobs, and training doesn’t give them the same thrill as a real-life situation, even if it’s an unconscious motive.
OK so you’ve obviously never shot a scoped rifle (or very infrequently and it was a long time ago). I promise I will know the garden nozzle and so will you. The bb gun and the plastic gun are irrelevant to the conversation. I have shot many scoped rifles in many different lighting situations. I’m familiar with varying quality of scopes. Even low quality scopes give you a very big, very clear picture. Even with bad lighting conditions it would be a trivial and very fast task to verify that it’s not a gun.
I’m not trying to present the argument that charges should be filed or that this was an execution; I can at least see how the 2 cops that shot him might have mistaken the gun. Fine. No charges should be filed. But there are still many questions. Why does the sniper still have a job? HE didn’t fire a shot. Why not? Why does the PD take people’s word for it in a life & death situation? They NEVER take my word for it when I said I wasn’t speading 😉 Does rifle training include verifying whether the man has a gun or not, or merely how to blow someone’s head off? Lots of questions, few answers.
My qestion is, why did the cops shoot to kill even though they never identified themselves or ordered the man to drop his ‘weapon?’
According to published accounts he was completely unaware of their presence, had a .42% BAC with Valium and THC in his system, so he would not have been capable of making sudden, threatening movements even if he had been aware of the cops.
Anyone who has been around a staggering drunk knows they make random movements, and this appears to be the case here. He probably was playing like he had a gun and unwittingly pointed it in the cops’ direction. So they killed him.
The DA is covering up another execution, but the civil trial will hopefully expose the truth.
I would tend to agree!
Those who live by the sword, you know the rest. Karma is real.
This isn’t an issue about police. It’s an issue about fat people who are sucking the lifeblood out of city government with extravagant pensions so there isn’t money for tree trimming, pot hole filling, or any of the other dozens of things people expect of city services.
There was an earlier post that had a link to a story that described the problems that bankrupt Vallejo. This is the same path Fullerton is following, and for the same reason. You refuse to acknowledge you’re part of the problem that sank Vallejo.
All I can say is good luck with that pension thing, because when the money runs out there isn’t going to be anything you can do about it. Except maybe stand in the streets and protest.
To those who think its impossible to touch their pensions/benies…remember Vallejo. Bankruptcy Code, Chapter 9.
True. Bankruptcy can have an impact lol
I’m hoping for it. BK the state, raid the pension coffers and reduce the amounts of ALL of the current pensioners by 30%.
Funded? Funded by what? Did you put in enough money to justify taking out the amount you will take out in the next 20 years? I don’t know where everyone else went to school, but I hear people talking about their funding of their own pensions. You know, defiantly, like Reality is is doing. Smug certainty. Lets say they paid 400 dollars (for example) per month for 20 years into their pension. Thats 4800 dollars per year x 20 years. That equals 96k total. TOTAL ! Yet you want to be funded for 100k per year for 20 years or until you die, maybe 30 years? Thats 3 million dollars. Your pension is funded by your contributions, and off of the sweat of those coming behind you, and by taxpayers who get none of these luxuries. Tell me again how “it’ll never happen”. haha. The demonstrations have just begun. Let them roll.
Good luck. Won’t see your dream in my life. Your kids might see it. All our kids will benefit from the changes. They will work for less for longer. Good for them.
We will see. My 23 years are funded.
I can say with 100% certainty you will not be collecting your full pension. 100% certainty. I doubt you’ll even begin to collect it, but that’s not certain at this point.
I can say 100% I will. Someone doesn’t know what they are talking about. 🙂
You got that right. Within the next 5 years you’ll be lucky if you have a paycheck of any kind, much less a pension. 100% guaranteed.
I knew you were a little nuts but you just proved you are really Kookoo. 🙂
Go ahead and laugh, a real good long one! Do it every day now if you wish! Because I can tell from your certitude you don’t have a clue what’s coming down the pike. Enjoy!
I do. Believe me I do. I hope you lesrn soon through your failures. Failing only educates which will make you a better person in the future.
I have a track record that goes back years with a high degree of success, so I do know what I’m talking about. The fact that you don’t, and yet profess to know more, shows how much a shock it’s going to be to you when your little sand castles come crumbling down. But you’re a big boy. And big boys don’t cry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj6tbFONFs&feature=related
They threw a flashbang directly at the crowd trying to render aid to the guy who got shot in the head at near point blank range. You aren’t even allowed to do that on a battlefield against foreign enemies. That is a war crime. Why would you support that action against a harmless civilian and then throw out some irrelevant platitude that in no way relates to the situation?
You know, you talk vaguely about wanting justice and wanting the bad guys out of the PD but you never actually seem to support it in individual cases. There always seems to be a justification in your mind for everything as long as it was done by a cop.
So sure, in your mind, some OTHER guy threw stuff at the cops, so this peaceful protester deserves a headshot (NOT AN ACCIDENT AT THAT RANGE) and a followup flashbang thrown at his rescuers.
Debatable. Told to leave numerous times. 20 people run back appearing to help. Told to leave. Refuse? It will play out in court.
Of course you’d support this. It was cops who did it…it doesn’t even matter to you WHAT they did; only WHO did it.
Not true. Looked at the case in depth. I know. Hard to believe a good shooting. It is.
You truly are disgusting. A real piece of work. I hope they disband FPD as quickly as possible.
I don’t care if they do or not. I think it would be bad for the city in the long run based on other cities doing it. But doing it means nothing to me.
I can’t wait for the first Fullerton PD uniform who tells me to sit down on the sidewalk. Just cant wait. He better have his Sargeant somewhere nearby.
“Told to leave? refuse?” Better get used to civil disobedience. Who do the police think they are? Who do YOU think you are Reality? You have no right to EVER violate the law, despite and especially when a uniformed officer. We only respect police because they deserve it, not because they demand it. ‘Little Napoleon brown shirt’ attitude is starting to be trained in on our police force, and maybe the cops need a little smack down before they learn to act as the older generation of cops did. With pride, with friendly coordination with the populace. Not with brute force. This current demonstration of brutality is going to be the undoing of the police force. look at them driving their tanks down main street. Wearing fatigues instead of proper uniforms. Guns that look like battle gear for the war. We got johnny loves-to-fight just looking for a fight on Fullerton’s main street. This is a HUGE mistake on the part of the Fullerton PD. It is oppression, and the citizens of Fullerton are not ultimately going to stand for it. Thanks to McKinley for bringing battleground tactics to the Fullerton PD. Imported from LAPD and our little town will never be the same as a result.
Good luck. You need to realize cops don’t care what you think. If I have a legal right to order you to do something or arrest you, I could care less what you say or do. You dictate the rest. I’m just carrying out the order. I deal with know it alls all the time. You can fight, cuss, or do anything you want. I will still arrest you, book you, write my report, and be back out serving the public in 30 minutes and will never think about you again.
Simple.
And here we have a perfect example of the attitude that has brought the Kelley Thomas scandal to Fullerton.
Snide, condescending, a total asshole in every respect. This person, Reality Is, should not be allowed on the streets. He brings his military training that worked in Iraq to kill citizens there to the streets of Fullerton, and he enjoys it.
This is another Ramos, ticking away.
Lol wrong. You want me to say to you oh ok do what you want? Run away? Cry? Kiss you? Tell me what you think a cop should do using the facts I said. Ready? Begin. 🙂
Exactly why it will have to change
See, you are part of the arrogant problem! You think that, as a blind and robotic executor of “the law”, you are “doing your duty” as a drone officer of the law. We don’t need drones, we need smart, thinking individuals who understand law and implement it wisely. NOT robotically. Your take sounds very much like the brown shirts in Germany, circa 1939. “just doing their duty”. We’ll see in the long run here whether your retired smug ass is right, or whether we will reduce your fat pension to an acceptable level, and get the financials of the City in order. This will be without your help obviously. You have too much to gain from things staying juuuuuust the way they are. you ARE part of the problem. Trust me., You needed that weapon by your side, because under any other circumstances you are just another guy who needs to be taught his manners and humility. I would totally be willing to do that for you.
hmmmm wrong again. Arrogance and cockiness and ego are hard to portray online. Email and text suck. Oh well. I am whatever you want me to be. I’m your public servant. 🙂
Why are you here? Really, why? It looks like you love playing this game of yours.
Educational. Entertaining.
And you are educating me by showing me psychopathology in action.
Ok. Good.
I wonder what percentage of money is taken out of the paycheck of city employees each month to go towards his/her retirement. Is the pension amount paid to retirees equal to the amount he/she paid into his own retirement fund during employment. If the pension amount is greater I don’t understand why that money is deserved for service no longer rendered. Isn’t it the responceability of an individual to save for his own future?
City paid a % each year of service. Most years they didn’t have to pay anything due to Pers investment success. Superfunded. Free. Most common is cities pay 9% of employee side for retirement. That is slowly changing so employee pays their own 9% contribution. That’s the new theme. Look at the PERS web site. Answer is contractual though.
Amen brother
The guy looks like Robert Rizzo, funny he is sitting before a plate of food.
He’s an icon for all the overpaid lard asses whose pensions are going to bankrupt the city governments. Officer Friendly is an example of a double-dipper: a military check along with a city check. Talk about a lard ass!
6’1″ 185 lbs. lard ass for sure.
Wow, you’re skinny for your height!
Steroids.
You must have looked like that guy in Captain America.
More like Speed Racer.
But the steroids EXPLAIN A WHOLE LOT!
Man boobs n shrunk pecker?
Obnoxious, self-centered attitude. Snob, elitist, momma’s boy. Ridiculously cocky. Considers self highly attractive to opposite sex. Insecure about appearance, but prone to show off intelligence. Athletic, competitive, driven, but prone to compromise morals to success. More?
Ha you really are a whack job huh? I can only imagine the life you lead.
Bankruptcy and total currency collapse will be the end of ALL civil servant pensions I would suspect. What or I should say HOW can they collect pensions from the citizen when there is no more currency based form of monetary compensation? Better pull your cash out now. Convert to the gold standard and stash your silver dimes in the mattress, tough times are coming….
True. Collapse of pers funds would cause that.
Royce Hosts Placentia Town Hall Meeting
All are invited.
Nov 05, 2011
On Saturday, November 5, 2011, Representative Ed Royce will host a town hall meeting. All are invited to attend. Royce will use this time to give an update of legislation in the House of Representatives and answer any questions. It will be held from 10:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. at Tuffree Middle School located at 2151 N. Kraemer Blvd. This event is free and open to the public. Royce looks forward to seeing everyone in Placentia on the 5th. Please don’t hesitate to call (714) 744-4130 with any questions.
http://royce.house.gov/calendar/EventSingle.aspx?EventID=264609
Royce Hosts Buena Park Town Hall Meeting
All are invited.
Nov 05, 2011
On Saturday, November 5, 2011, Representative Ed Royce will host a town hall meeting. All are invited to attend. Royce will use this time to give an update of legislation in the House of Representatives and answer any questions. It will be held from 1:00 p.m. to 2:00 p.m. at the Buena Park City Hall located at 6650 Beach Blvd.. This event is free and open to the public. Royce looks forward to seeing everyone in Buena Park on the 5th. Please don’t hesitate to call (714) 744-4130 with any questions.
http://royce.house.gov/calendar/EventSingle.aspx?EventID=264610
http://royce.house.gov/WomensConference/speakers.htm#KathleenBaty
all the PERS donations, (that’s what it looks like to me), is part of the ponzi scheme just like the SS pyramid scam we’ve been duped into paying for for decades… Always works out great for the first few in, and the ones who run the pool, then the rest are left holding the bag…
Money there is equal to all the members and years of service. Plenty.
time will tell that story..RT Is… as long as the flow keeps coming in, but I would like to see those books and study them for a while..hmmmm, but still do you know if PERS is set up to invest those funds ?
Yep. That’s why cities paid nothing for years. Super funded. So yea investments crash to $0 would cause problems lol
I hate to say it, but Reality IS is correct on the pension issue. While the pension deals that the public-employee backed elected “leaders” made were morally reprehensible, the courts have repeatedly denied municipalities the ability to rescind those contracts. These dirtballs will collect their pay until they go 6 feet under, and there is nothing (including bankruptcy) that we can do about it. We be hosed folks.
Focus on the future. Change things to current budgets and economy. The past is the past. Much different era financially.
So… how much pension do these pukes deserve???
http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/11/03/41176.htm
Nice work if you can get it…and you can get it if you try.
For those who think the money will never run out….a little music to soothe your soul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4VFLSCVt4Q&feature=related
I thought I heard that the video may be available and that Ron Thomas is not sure if he will release it.
Any thoughts on that from the people who were holding the release the tape signs?
I really want to see it. And then have a rally in the parking lot where he was slaughtered. And then march on City Hall once again.
Ayyyyyyyyyy!!
I would like to see it as well, what would be the resoning behind not releasing it?
sorry, *reasoning
Court juror initial shock value?
I think too many people have seen or heard of the video for there to be shock value…just my opinion
Hearing of it is not the same as watching it. If it’s so bad the FPD, the city council and the DA are desperately trying to keep it from being released then it must be horrific.
Even the DA seemed to be rattled by it when he was announcing the indictments against Ramos and Cicinelli.
Copies of it have most likely already made their way onto the cop blogs where it’s being shown in precincts all over the U.S. as a snuff film. Gives you an idea of the mentality of the people walking around with guns.
You are gonna loose…just keep that mentality.
Taunting and inciting again. Ramos and Cicinelli are the tip of the iceberg.
Yahooooo!!!! Now take suckers!!
Like I said…We aint worry!
Wasn’t Godlewski only here for a couple of years?
Your attitude says everything that needs to be said to support the argument against police hiring military that have been to Iran or Iraq.
As the old saying goes, you can’t break a dog of killing chickens once he’s tasted blood.
Hmmmmmmmm. I have no military. So maybe I was abused as a child?
Dropped on your head, more like. Or took a bullet like Cicinelli.
Oh ok. Ouch.
Can you document “the argument against police hiring military that have been to Iran (did you mean Afghanistan?) or Iraq”? I concede that there have been many incidents of absolutely abhorrent behavior on the part of military (and contractors) in both areas, but I personally feel that the behavior can be more associated with a prior disposition to violent acts than to the fact that the person is in the military.
Yeah, I made an edit that I didn’t correct. I meant Iraq or Afghanistan.
The argument says that our guys are coming back with PTSD that is undiagnosed and untreated. They tend to overreact in stressful situations. Cicinelli is a perfect example, even though his stressor event was being shot in the face as a young LAPD recruit.
http://www.jimstonjournal.com/id135.html
I made $173K+ not being a firefighter this year! Next year, I’m thinking about taking up a second job not being an astronaut.
I wanna be a fireman. They have the life for sure. 🙂
How so?
Saweet! I’ll be waiting. I’ll come back and give u kudos in 5 years.
I highly doubt it. Not in the way you think.
Sure I will. If you are right so be it. Shit happens. You predicted. You deserve praise.
Don’t get me wrong, I hope you and everyone else lives a long and fruitful life. But changes are coming that are going to make a comfortable life well nigh impossible. Prepare for survival, not retirement.
Check out some of the really ROTTEN comments:
http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-325441-fullerton-charged.html
From his picture when it all comes tumbling down and nobody has anything to eat or drink, he’ll live a loooong time. Why are most government workers so fat?
My guess would be that they are fat is because they have an inordinate amount of contempt for the public that they are supposed to be serving.
LOL thats hot.
Abie was cool..he could outmouth all of you in one sentence..
Wow, what a great character reference for a resume.
He was a dick to the people that count. “Cool” around the frat house…I’m sure he was. All you “cool” guys get along together real well. “Reality is” the rest of us just don’t find you guys all that cool. Mostly…a bunch of power-tripping dickheads.
and that’s your right. We would probably think your a dick too. Love is in the air.
A lifetime of hiding behind the badge. Got so much time on your hands you blog your authoritative pro-cop bullshit all day missing the mean streets and days filled with bullying people and laughing about it with your frat buddies. Reality is… I AM A DICK, and you’re a pathetic, retired, FRUSTRATED, ticket-writing cop loser.
Huh? I’m as active as it gets in all aspects of LE. Calls, supervising, teaching, instructing, and blogging. 🙂
Oh yeah…I forgot that part…egomaniac. That also goes with the territory.
OH for sure. totally. radical.
Way to lie down…pussy
The pension-benefits portion of the contract is unenforceable. A contractual provision to pay beyond this year’s calculated contribution is unenforceable.
A Chapter 9 Bankruptcy could cause an early distribution of funds to beneficiaries, according to contributions made in the past for their benefits, reduced by distributions to them, respectively.
If the City wanted to right now, it could refuse to fund any more benefits for retired officials, and tell them: you get only to the limit of what has been put in for you already, as increased by the fund’s income etc. The City cannot be compelled to continue to fund contractual benefits. Why? Because such contractual benefits violate state law.
Therefore, ballooning pension costs do NOT have to force a municipality into insolvency. The same municipality can repudiate the benefits at will. All public officials know that, and are told that before they are hired, while they are hired, and after they are separated from service. They are also instructed by their unions etc. to participate in perpuating the Big Con on the public, to the effect that the pension benefit provisions of the employment contracts need to be honored. These do NOT. End of discussion.
WSH
It will take millions and millions (at least $10 million) of tax payer dollars just to test your beliefs. Most people say its a losing battle. Orange County was adamant like you are and it only cost tax payers $5 million. Most won’t take on the battle now for this reason. Here is the Orange County decision;
Home Countywide
California Supreme Court Rejects County’s Pension Lawsuit
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Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:26 pm | Updated: 8:31 pm, Wed Apr 13, 2011.
BY NORBERTO SANTANA, JR. | 6 comments
Wednesday, April 13, 2010 |
California’s Supreme Court today unanimously denied county officials’ appeal on a controversial pension case that sought to eliminate retroactive pension increases adopted for deputy sheriffs nearly a decade ago.
The defeat comes as a blow to the county board of supervisors and specifically to Supervisor John Moorlach, who began the effort just after his 2006 election with a solo press conference announcing the unique legal theory.
County officials had argued that the increase – worth about $187 million – violated the state constitution and constituted a gift of public funds.
Courts that reviewed the case consistently decided that pension liabilities were different than outright debt.
“It’s just amazing,” said Moorlach just after hearing the decision.”They owed it to the citizens of California to bring some clarity,” Moorlach added saying he expected at least a written opinion answering the question: “Why does a pension benefit enhancement become a loophole?”
Wayne Quint, president of the Association of Orange County Deputy Sheriffs, heralded the unanimous decision reiterating what he’s been saying for years.
Quint criticized county supervisors saying they’ve wasted millions of taxpayer dollars on a “half-cocked” legal theory from Moorlach’s former chief of staff Mario Mainero, who now teaches law at Chapman University.
Moorlach replied by noting, “regardless of what Quint says, this is unconstitutional and I will always believe that.”
Quint also said county supervisors should have concentrated more on negotiating than just a legal confrontation.
Moorlach agreed now that the case was done, the action would indeed move back toward the negotiating room. And without the case looming in the background, he said the deputies should expect an aggressive tact from the county.
Quint stressed that his union would “aggressively” seek to have is own legal fees reimbursed by the county, given that the county’s legal arguments were rejected outright by three separate courts in quick order.
Estimates are that the legal fees could likely cost taxpayers more than $5 million, if a court agrees with Quint.
Although the county’s Lincoln Club was also a prominent backer of the lawsuit, many Republican attorneys have privately voiced doubts about the legal theory.
Quint said Moorlach and County CEO Tom Mauk owe the people of Orange County an apology.
Mauk did not return a call seeking comment.
“Republican’s are always talking about tort reform,” Quint said adding, “Well here’s the worst example, courtesy of Supervisor John Moorlach.”
True PIGS!
Oink?
how many good guys/girls going to be out tomorrow?
It’s not likely you CAN imagine it. Thinking outside the box isn’t one of your strong points. That’s what makes you so predictable.
I thought you said cops are all outside the box? Now they are all in the box? I thought Fullerton cops only like box?
I am starting to feel sorry for you. Anyone who can sit on this Blog all day, has no life. You say you are on the blog for entertainment. I say get off the blog and do something. Look at the life you lead, blogging that’s a real good retirement. If you are what say? Why are you here?
Thanks. IPad. iPhone. Mac. All easy to respond to posts. I enjoy this blog. Most of my posts are while driving. Ooops. JK
ok, I am close to retirement, I would hate to think you waisting your life on FFFF. I am still working. Hope to get out of CA. I am close. Bought a big boat. Left brain is already retarded.
That’s just great, if you are texting and driving while working for the taxpayer and you get in a accident,,,,,,, kindly and fairly pay for the lawsuit with your pension, ok?
I am sick of irresponsible public servants who expect everyone else to pick up the tab.
They won’t let us. Sorry. Can’t touch a pension until after 50. 🙂
So if you are on the job and you are texting and you get in a accident the city gets sued but you are untouchable?
I seriously want to know….I ran into someone who works for the hearing impaired as a government employee and they told me they text and drive because their clients cannot hear.
When I told them that it was dangerous and that they should hire a driver if they felt that was the only way they could avoid texting and driving….they said then they would have to raise my taxes to pay for a driver………CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT ANSWER?
It blew me away……I said GO AHEAD and raise them because if they got in accident while driving and texting then my taxes would have to be raised anyway if the city was named in a lawsuit as a result of their decision to do their job while driving…..
Not untouchable. It’s a policy violation and depending on injury or death and damage, dictates the amount of discipline. So 30 days off is how much money saved by the city? Something like that. But texting is dangerous. We are allowed to talk on cell phones per law, but that’s also not smart. 🙂
I never said cops are outside the box, unless they’e being lowered in the ground. I guess that’s the PTSD voice in your head again.
He doesnt need a resume. He’s at home collecting his fat retirement check.
Not for long!
Is that a picture of that there Meyer at that anti recall dinner eating off a paper dish? eee hah, now thats what I call class
Not sure at the moment; I’ll probably be there but I was at the anti-recall thing last night as well as the Ramos/Cicinelli pre-trial this morning and my family is starting to bust me up…like I said I will probably be there but we shall see. I know there are others that will be there, so there will be a presence either way.
He cant hear you!!!!!!!!!!!! To late!
Well, since you can hear me…go fuck YOURself then!
I’ll let him know. I’m sure he will go throw $100 in the toilet just for you..
Just tell him to leave it on the night stand after you blow him.
LOL you think it’s funded?!? Dude, you’ve been sold out. At historical rates of return, contribution, retirements, and tax revenue growth, it would take the entire state budget JUST to pay pensions within about a decade. And I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but we are way below the curve right now on tax revenue growth and it’s not looking good for the near future based on shrinking incomes throughout the state.
AND state pension funds have not only lost a ton of money due to bets on housing derivatives, but it has also been borrowed from very heavily by the state to feed it’s heroine-like addiction to overspending. Yup, full of IOUs, just like Social Security.
Do you think the public is going to accept doubling or tripling of taxes to pay you to NOT do any work? Your pension is NOT growing the way they promised you it would (which you obviously believed). 8-15% annual returns? HAH! The stock market is basically where it was a decade ago. How’s that for returns?
I sure hope you have other investments to rely on for retirement and that you’ve made wise decisions with your money and don’t have a ton of debt.
I have faith. I don’t need my retirement anyways, but I’ll take it. I think it will all be fine. I have 4 years to go.
I have 6 years. and I will take my money and run. “OUT OF CA”. But I need the money.
What happened to you…Mr. 100% sure? Now you “think” you’ll be fine and you don’t need it anyway. Dude…you are exposed…complete fraud.
100%. Still.
Have they caught you? Are sure about those envestments? I am……
Yes very sure.
I’m glad you don’t need it; you are probably one of the few who has prepared enough. You guys were lied to.
We have ALL been lied to.
Jeezus, that Meyer is a beached whale.
Like Rizzo all over again.
It’s hard to have a successful democracy without morality from those in power.
This country is rotting from within.
Yeah, you can see the rot from the government representatives in this thread. Laughing about young protesters being shot in the head and attacked with concussion grenades. Bragging about multiple pensions while the rest of the state is teetering on bankruptcy.
This reminds me of the story of Lot begging the angels to spare the city of Sodom if he could find just 45, no 40, ok 20, how about 10? Oy vey! Make it TWO! Genesis 18-20
If I can find just 45 — no? ok 40 — hell, make it just ONE good man in FPD will you spare them? Oh… that’s what I thought. LATER DUDE!!!
I had to pay into my retirement benefits. It is my own money. I worked hard for it. Not like the state and fed, fuck heads. State employees would be homeless without us. And that is “REALITY”. So “Reality Is” toot your horn, but you are a poor excuse for a human. You can laugh, but you can’t hide from the person that you look at in the mirror, but you are blind. Your ego gets in your way.
Why would I hide? I’m proud. High level of schooling. Great career choice. Love it after 23 years. Always will. I sure look sexy in the mirror 🙂 lol mo ego here. Well u have an ego too? We all have a little one :->
But I work for a living,30 yrs. and deserve my sexy ego. Could you make it in the real world, or is being a postman all you could handle. I did see a fat FPD get out of his car today and waddle into a store today.
I am not the only one lol.
OK, I agree. Reality Is, is different, and he gets me going on a rage. But it is just a Blog. “Middle Aged Blogger” You young ones are the important ones. lol
Agree 100%. It’s good to see this info get more and more publicized. There are still a lot of citizens unaware of these ridiculous, bloated pension payouts. The “game” is over. We are educating ourselves, and will not put up with ignoring it any longer.
When some law enforcement personnel are making incomes that are larger than some M.D’s, the system is out of control.
Where do I sign up?
Any city hall. Everyone is hiring right now. 🙂
Can somebody explain how Karen Lindsay-McDonald is the top pension recipient from the police department?
If I’m not mistaken, she never made it past corporal. i.e….All of her superiors are making less in pension benefits.
Resident hand jobs? oopps sorry.
You notice how boring this blog is without me? LOL 🙂
Said the turd to the punchbowl.
CackleFoos- “said the turd to the punchbowl”
I don’t care who you are, that there is funny
You are correct; as long as there are funds available. When they run out, as many experts predict, what then? If you are expecting a public retirement, I would strongly suggest supplementing it by putting away some operating capital now, as I believe the pension crisis will make the health care debate look silly by comparison. Bank on it!
You could be right. I just think the cuts and adjustments being made will work and everyone will be fine. Of course if everything crashes and all the cities go bankrupt, then everyone is screwed so everyone will be screwed together and screw each other. Big ol’ party. I think everyone will pull out fine and we will all live happily ever ever. time will tell.
Don’t get too excited about yourself. From a physician’s point of view, you present as an individual with low self esteem.
Opposite actually. Computer screens tend to give opposite impressions. Most people talk much differently behind a computer screen than in person as well. I’m actually more outspoken and more energetic in person, which is scary at times.
It’s the steroids again.
Reality Is- nope, I believe the good doctor is correct
anyone who boasts on himself usually aint all that they think they is.
Wow six digit salaries for positions that require a high-school diploma or GED in many instances? Hmmm maybe if we paid teachers and mental health service providers a little more and cops a little less our prisons would not be so overcrowded. But I guess the cops are making the government money while all teachers, counselors, school psychologists, etc. are doing is teaching children how to read, write, and function in society.
If you want to call it making money.
I know that I have not wrote anything for awhile, but I’m still here working on my son’s case every day, and I do still need your support.
Thanks for all of your hard work and suport.”
I’ll send each of you a card when the check comes in. Thanks again.
Whaaa? whats this here?
No wonder the cops are giving out $300 traffic tickets to everyone I know.
That’s a lot of bread for a bunch of city employees….
Have you seen a big fat ugly smiling pigs: Cops and Sheriffs generating revenue for their generous salary, huge pension, big overtime, and all the perks for themselves and city at your expenses: traffic tickets, towing expenses and storage, etc.
These corrupt Fullerton cops and officials are also working for the rich and big banks to foreclosure your home at a fees: disgrace to America.
I pass at least 10 cops on my drive to work every day………. They are all writing tickets. I have a digital camera that takes in my dash and windshield. It is a matter of time until they try a bogus ticket on me. Pretty much most of my friends have been pulled over in the last 6 months also. Cops are causing the hate they rightfully deserve.
Girth is the proper terminology. That is one monster list of deadweight…and all of it morbidly obese in all likelihood.
Hopefully the taxpayer burden will be relieved a bit sooner thanks to their laziness and such things as CHF, CAD, AMI, CVA, HTN, and PE.
Why has no one addressed the hush money from the Park n rec to S Hunt, and Joe felz? I asked joe about the museum hush money and Immediately he had goiters…or his eyes almost popped out. Any news on that?
The LA Times reported that LAPD is looking into Jay’s Pension. Here is the link.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fullerton-20111106,0,3953919.story
wow, six figures for all of them? Really? WTF
The majority of those so called police officers on that list should be behind bars for the crap they committed during their lucrative stint at FPD. You Fullerton tax payers should be pissed that they are leeching off you and flipping you off at the same time. They are worthless pieces of crap and shouldn’t get a dime.
Fun the state list. Then you can say the same thing about every government employee the last 50 years. Might make ya feel better. 🙂
Audit Fullerton before it is too late…It is too late.
Yes, I do believe we will be seeing a lot of that list between now and June.
Door hangers in SW Fullerton? Game over!
Travis, noce list. What would it take to get a list of the “Brady Cops” in Orange County. I keep asking about this and get no response. can you tell me how to do it and Ill get the information?
The DA owns the list. Try sending them a public records request. I’m pretty sure they’ll say the list is personnel information and not subject to disclosure.
If Obama can decimate the Constitution and The Bill of Rights by signing s1867 on New Years Eve then you can be absolutely certain that by the stroke of a pen these time bombs will be done in. SADLY there is no future for the middle class in the US. Just look at our national policies, the tax codes and trade agreements. They have strapped these boondoggles to the backs of the taxpayers that can barely carry the weight of their own loads. We have been BETRAYED AT EVERY LEVEL. If you think the gravy train isn’t coming off of the tracks you are in for a rude awakening. It wouldn’t surprise me if the what is left of the pension funds were grabbed to pay down the debt either. Look what they did in Germany. We are not in the “twilight zone” anymore -we are now in the “outer limits” just before “night gallery” begins.
Sorry folks, slow news day.
never
The group opposing the recall of three Fullerton city councilmen said Tuesday it filed reports showing it raised $62,000 in its apparently unsuccessful campaign to block a recall election.
http://voiceofoc.org/oc_north/article_8a3993ae-4c4d-11e1-a941-001871e3ce6c.html
Are Fullerton cops involved in a vehicle towing scam?
The answer is yes, according to a Jan. 13 lawsuit filed by Rowland Heights-based Safeway Towing Services, Inc. [DBA Bob’s Towing].
In the seven-page suit, company lawyer Neil C. Evans of Sherman Oaks claims that cops began to systematically harass and intimidate its drivers after the company tried in 2010 to break a competitor’s lucrative city towing monopoly with the police department.http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2012/01/fullerton_police_bobs_towing_o.php
Are Fullerton Cops Running a Towing Scam?
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2012/01/fullerton_police_bobs_towing_o.php
excerpt from kellys army facebook pg.
“Thank Bruce Whitaker and Mayor Quirk-Silva for putting “clearing Kelly’s name” on the next city council agenda.”
On the NO-Recall signs it was printed that Fullerton Is Not For Sale.
I took that to mean there was already a long term lease contract in place.
The $62000 may be the last payment.
They didnt think to much about that one did they?
Maybe someday we can argue that a Brady cop might be just as much a problem as a “megans list” child predator.
The potential victims are far and wide.
Attention FPD. If this lawsuit has been served upon the city, YOU guys and gals should be aware of California Penal Code Section 136.1
The key words are ANY person, and any proceeding authorized by law. ANY person includes cops. Law suits are a proceeding. Dissuade can be construed as on going harrasement.
If Bob’s drivers are going to get harrassed, they should be filing FORMAL complaints against FPD with the DA’s office, public integrity unit, immediately.
From the Penal Code.
136.1. (a) Except as provided in subdivision (c), any person who
does any of the following is guilty of a public offense and shall be
punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year
or in the state prison:
(1) Knowingly and maliciously prevents or dissuades any witness or
victim from attending or giving testimony at any trial, proceeding,
or inquiry authorized by law.
(2) Knowingly and maliciously attempts to prevent or dissuade any
witness or victim from attending or giving testimony at any trial,
proceeding, or inquiry authorized by law.
Restraining orders and injunctions are not out of the question either if FPD wants to play hardball at this time.
Just a little information for all.
I’ll bet you anything McKinley is bitching and complaining that he’s not higher up on the list.
I guess everyone wants to go to home depot and get firefighters and poloce for &8.00/hr