What If Your Boss Gave You a 1200% Retirement Match?
That’s what members of Fullerton’s police and fire unions get from us.
Almost all of the candidates are talking about pension reform now, but they don’t quite have their figures right. According to the city’s HR Director, public safety employees currently pay 2.557% of thier salaries towards their multi-million dollar retirements, while taxpayers pick up the rest. This year, we’re paying an additional 29.752% of their salaries towards their retirements, and it’s set to shoot much higher.
In private-sector terms, that’s equivalent to an employer 401(k) match of 1200%. That’s twenty-four times the average out here in the real world.
I see what you did there.
This is a great snapshot of what the City’s paying out to its employees, and how out of sync it is with the private sector.
Since I work at CSUF, I know all about CalPers and the public retirement system. It is my plan also. However, my position is non-union, so I can look at it a little differently than most here. And personally, I think employees should contribute some percentage to their pension plan. I feel the same about health care and am fortunate to have a PPO option.
That said, one of the things that will have to be addressed and may well be a deal breaker is the Collective Bargaining Agreements the City has with these unions. Those contracts are binding, and the City can’t just arbitrarily decide that employees in a union must pay a certain percentage towards their retirement benefits, it will have to be negotiated. So there’s a lot more involved than it may seem at first glance and you can be sure there will be reprocussions largely dependent upon what unions you are dealing with.
If my boss gave me such a nice retirement plan, I’d wonder which bank he robbed. In this case, it’s the Bank of the Taxpayer.
Not that I’m so lucky to have ANY (other than the hoax they call Social Security) employer contribution to my retirement but I know that most real world employer contributions have caps or limits and are usually matching contributions. Given those facts, the advantage of those alleged public servants is not 1200% but infinite.
Where did Gilligan and BleedTheFreak go? Maybe they can explain this to us.
Just getting this straight.
Should all public employees have their defined benefit plans taken away?
BTW, defined benefit are very much alive and well in the private sector. Executives are usually very good about awarding themselves these types of compensation.
Since you aren’t aware of that, it’s obvious you aren’t one of them.
In the private sector executives answer to the shareholders. In the public sector the employee unions elect their bosses.
If a company is poorly run I don’t have to invest in it. I have no choice but to take what the public employee union monopolists hand me.
The only people who try to confuse the two issues are the unions.
Really? I thought the people elected the city leaders.
I must have missed the part where only the union members (many of whom don’t live in the city) got to vote.
Let’s try the question again.
Do you believe all public employees should have their defined benefit programs taken away.
And while the exectives answer to the shareholders, that hasn’t stopped them from running a company into the ground and leaving destruction in their wake while profitting as individuals.
Let’s see if I can explain this real simple so you can get it it: the union plows in tens of thousands of dollars behind their slacker candidates who will owe them. That money is spent indoctrinating the public.
Odd that you would say this. Normally you freaking boohoo liberals love to limit campaign contributions – just not those from your union pals, eh?
So are the unions the only ones contributing to candidates? The voters have no say at all?
I’ve never stated any type of position that advocates limiting campaign contributions.
Put the pot on the fire! Skin them rabbits.
It’s a valid question. Who elects the imbecile politicians who vote for these benefit packages? It’s not the unions, they don’t comprise that large a share of the population. It’s the people who choose not to participate in local issues and who end up with lousy representation. Sounds to me like you should be encouraging your neighbors to get involved with what’s going on at City Hall. Otherwise, shut up or move out of state. Unions don’t elect anyone, citizens registered to vote do.
If unions don’t elect anybody then why do they dump tens of thousands of dollars in each Fullerton race. Why do they mail out thousands of fliers to promote their candidates. Why do they spends hundreds of hours putting up signs and walking precincts? Who else has those resources? Nobody, that’s who.
Don’t expect a straight answer.
Here’s the real rub with the 4F morons. Unions participate in the political process. They’ve been effective. Since they are effective they must be doing something wrong. If they weren’t effective these idiots wouldn’t care. Plain and simple.
Business interests participate in the political process. Many do so to their own benefit as well. Yet these morons seem to have no problem with that.
Joe Idiot loves my bunny cooker analogy. He was obsessed with Pam Keller because she turned him down for a date. It’s obvious.
Wow, you must not know much about how local elections work. How do you think these people got that bogus 3 @ 50 in the first place? And how did the taxpayers get stuck with unfunded liabilities? It sure wasn’t based on good public policy.
Hell yes I would take defined benefits away, if I could. And municipal bankruptcies might just accomplish that. The private sector has defined contributions and Social Security. Why isn’t that good enough for public employees? Because their unions have extorted the Hell out of the rest of us.
Should we get rid of all defined benefit pensions because of unfunded liabilities?
As I’ve pointed out, there are companies that offer defined benefit plans. Obviously you are not one of them.
As I asked Mr. Peabody, are unions the only ones living at the trough? Should we scrutinize all individuals compensation whose sole or major source of revenue is either a government contract or a government enforced monopoly? Or are you just angry that a police officer or firefighter makes more than you?
I believe Civil Servant should keep what they have accrued to date (but excluding anything that was granted RETROACTIVELY … that should be removed as tantamount to theft of taxpayer funds). Accruals for FUTURE years of service should be equal in value (as a percentage of pay) to what Private Sector employers give their employees.
Yes, due to the currently HUGH excess in the Public sector, that would amount to a huge DECREASE for future accruals.
Sorry about that, but WE (the Private Sector) pay for perhaps 90% of you pension & benefits, and you need to join the REAL world.
Yet another ne’er do well moron who can’t read and has questionable grammar skills.
I don’t work in the public sector. I did while serving my country in uniform.
It’s no wonder your jealous of those in the public sector. You probably can’t pass a civil service exam.
Let me guess, you earn a living detailing cars.
“Should we get rid of all defined benefit pensions because of unfunded liabilities?”
Yes.
“As I’ve pointed out, there are companies that offer defined benefit plans. Obviously you are not one of them.”
Government service isn’t a “company.”
“Should we scrutinize all individuals compensation whose sole or major source of revenue is either a government contract or a government enforced monopoly? Or are you just angry that a police officer or firefighter makes more than you?”
Yes, we should; I am angry that government monopolies screw the rest of us. You must either be a government worker or really stupid.
“Should we get rid of all defined benefit pensions because of unfunded liabilities?”
“Yes.”
Does that include military pensions? There is no trust fund, they are paid out of discretionary spending. I bet they’ll be glad to know you don’t appreciate the sacrifices they make for your freedom.
“As I’ve pointed out, there are companies that offer defined benefit plans. Obviously you are not one of them.”
Government service isn’t a “company.”
You must not be able to read well. I specifically stated there are PRIVATE companies that offer defined benefit pension plans. My wife and I work for one of them. Can’t help you with your lack of comprehension skills.
“Should we scrutinize all individuals compensation whose sole or major source of revenue is either a government contract or a government enforced monopoly? Or are you just angry that a police officer or firefighter makes more than you?”
Yes, we should; I am angry that government monopolies screw the rest of us. You must either be a government worker or really stupid.
Nice that you immediately dissolve into personal attacks. It’s obvious your a moron or a loser that is jealous that someone achieved greater things in life than you. That must suck.
FWIW, I am retired military. Nice to know a-holes like you don’t appreciate my service to the country. Not that I expect any thanks from idiots like you.
Believe it or not 4SD but most people do appreciate your service but unfortunately this particular kool-aid drinker and his band of merry men have nothing better to do with their misearable lives than to complain because they hate their jobs and lives. This isn’t the site for normal and rational people unless you read it for the comedy factor.
Gilligan, I now that to be the case. I love how these idiots continually
bash occupations they’ve never done. I’m sure there are times when
being a police officer and a firefighter are pretty cush jobs. I’m also
sure there are times when it is a real sucky job. I ask the detractors
of both jobs to either get in line and do it for less. Something they
could do by sending checks back to the city after they are paid. I
won’t hold my breath on that one. Same as my time in the military.
But somehow they know all about the job. If it is such a great gig,
why aren’t they stepping up to get one of those jobs they claim is so
easy? Because it is much easier to criticize in cyberspace behind a pseudonym. More than likely while wearing their tightie whities in their mom’s basement.
You notice how Joe called me stupid, yet never answered my question
about military pensions. I’m betting he doesn’t. That’s an
inconvenient fact for those who want to take defined benefit plans
away from all. As I pointed out, my wife and I both work for a private
company that offers a defined pension plan. My company is also smart enough to not hire idiots like these on this board, so I’m not worried about them ever being co-workers.
This is about people who nothing about service, just what they can grab for themselves and screw everyone else.
“More than likely while wearing their tightie whities in their mom’s basement.”
Oops, there’s that fascination again. Now we know why you’re not in the Navy anymore.
I don’t think you’re stupid. Just brainwashed and deluded. I remember our fun conversations about the egregious Pam Keller.
But when the bank vault is empty all you public employees and apologists can argue between yourselves about who works harder and deserves their fair share. It will be fun to watch you turn on each other.
BTW, how do you know what occupations commenters have “done?” You don’t of course. I’ll bet most of us work just as hard as any cop or “firefighter” in Fullerton.
Joe, as I just wrote elsewhere:
“The Economic Recession that has hit so many in the private sector, and that so far has barely affected the public sector at all, will, in 2011, deliver its overdue bill to government employees.”
Make that “long overdue bill.”
Also, thanks for putting firefighter in quotation marks. I prefer the term Emergency Service Providers (ESPs).
Yes, I remember them as well. I exposed you as akin to jilted prom dates.
Something that was obvious.
I don’t know what occupations you have done. No one is commenting about them and their duties/obligations. Nor are your occupations being criticized. I could care less how hard or not you work. That was never a point.
Spell check can only help so much. If you want to appear literate please proofread before hitting submit.
Just one problem numbnuts. None of my words are misspelled.
Do you regularly let everyone know you’re a complete moron?
It explains a lot.
P.S. Please share the name of your “company” that provides you and your husband a defined benefit. We’d love to know the name of this golden goose and where to apply.
It’s one of these.
Though I doubt you’ll get hired.
http://www.ador.state.al.us/incometax/definedben.pdf
More than likely they don’t have any openings that require qualifications of being an idiot blogger.
Hmm. How many of those let you retire at 50 with 90% of your highest income?
Even an idiot blogger knows that only the public sector gets that. it would bankrupt private companies. Come to think of it look what the unions did to the auto industry.
I don’t know. None of them require their employees to run into burning buildings.
More importantly that wasn’t your question. You asked what company that employed me that had a defined benefit pension plan for a benefit so that you would know the name of the golden goose.
Surprise, there are dozens.
BTW, keep believing I’m female. It only proves why you were too stupid to pass the police written exam. Critical thinking is a necessary component of doing investigative work.
And for the record I wasn’t in the Navy. Though I have no doubt you fantasize about being penetrated by objects with seamen.
Get it? It’s a pun.
We idiot bloggers got rid of Pam Keller. That must still hurt.
Just one problem that you and your fellow idiot bloggers dont’ understand.
We aren’t discussing Pam Keller. We’re discussing defined benefit pensions.
Do you have ADHD? There’s medications available for that malady.
I never heard her say that the reason she not running was because of you idiot bloggers. By the way, I’m not a Keller fan but I find it amazing that you think her decision to not run was because of the idiot bloggers Did she actually say that you idiots are the reason she didn’t chose to run or are you just making things up again?
How many of those plans are still active? Frankly I doubt that most (all?) even have plans like that.
The bitter fact remains that the vast majority of private sector taxpayers have 401k plans, if they have anything at all, and at best they get matching contributions if the company can even afford to do that. See, it’s about economics, not about highway robbery.
Oh yeah we also get to kick a few Gs into a personal IRA if there’s anything left over after we pay our taxes to buy your buddies second homes at the River.
Interesting, however, virtually all of these are plans that are left over from days gone by and the plans have been closed to new members for decades.
By the way, none pay 3% at 50 in the private sector
That wasn’t the point Hollis. I’m in one of those plans that isn’t virtually closed. Something Joe “moron” Sippy didn’t believe was available.
And….defined benefit plans are very much alive in the private sector for many primary execs in Fortune 500 companies.
Not that any of the morons on this board will ever have to worry about being one of them.
In other words, your list was bogus, as I suspected. Just like everything else about you and your lame arguments, that basically just become emotional and hysterical, on cue.
The days when you can weep and cry and create heroes and justify paying them anything they demand are drawing to a close. Nice while it lasted, though.
P.S. Nothing more pathetic than a vet trotting out his(her) service, c.f. Samuel Johnson: “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.” Nobody’s buying into that load o’ crap anymore, either.
And….defined benefit plans are very much alive in the private sector for many primary execs in Fortune 500 companies.
======
No, they are not.
And the Fortune 500 employess less than 10% of private sector employees even IF they did offer DB’s.
Why do GED idiots like you lie so much???
Interesting, however, virtually all of these are plans that are left over from days gone by and the plans have been closed to new members for decades
================
100% correct.
Tell our resident GED cop here to LINK to just ONE private sector company that offers a DB today to ALL employees-and then tell the idiot to link to just ONE private sector company that has offered a 3%@50 DB ANYTIME-EVER!
Yet another moron who knows nothing about his subject.
Run along junior. You’ll just end up with the just pumped the neighbor’s cat look on your face.
You GED moron, NO private sector company has defined benefits for new hires, they haven’t for at least the last decade, that so called list you linked to shows those who were hired 40 years ago and have not retired. In fact 80% of ALL private sector companes are small business with NO PENSION plan of any kind whatsoever.
Let me make this easy so your GED cop or firewhiner brain understands, you cannot give GED cops and firewhiners doctor, dentist and lawyers wages AND a $5 million pensions at age 50-OK, is that easier for your GED brain to compute?
Heyt idiot boy. I’m neither.
I was going to ask if you’re that stupid, but it would be a rhetorical question that answers itself.
Fake OCO,
I guess by NO private sector company you
are not including United Parcel Service, which
interestingly enough allows drivers to retire
even younger than 50.
Don’t use so many capital letters if you don’t
know what you’re talking about.
What can Brown do for you?
I don’t know. None of them require their employees to run into burning buildings.
=======================
hahaha….another firewhiner playing the “hero” card….hey firewhiner, I hate to break the news to you, but firehwiners dont run into burning buildings either. In fact 95% of their time is down time, like sleeping, cooking, BBQing and so forth.
Working the graveyard shift at 7-1 is 100 times MORE dangerous.
Hey, this is you firewhiner;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmC26RuO26g
More than likely they don’t have any openings that require qualifications of being an idiot blogger.
=====================
Qualifications to be a cop/firewhiner= GED
For the same reason any other group puts out the same type of literature.
You’re not very bright, are you?
Our group is a voluntary association that doesn’t spend a nickel. We are not an organized monopoly of public employees willing to spend whatever it takes to bamboozle the populace.
Your only recourse is to insult people’s intelligence. And you don’t even know how to spell.
And no one is buying the fact that you have half a brain. Read Hollis’ text again. He says “virtually.” Not “all.” There are plans that are alive and well. Like I said, those companies hire people who have half a brain. You’re in no danger of being employed by any of them.
Getting a little testy, eh? Throw up a forty year old pension list and try to fob it off as legitimate data. Weak, sad and pathetic.
Fortunately your days are numbered. It will be fun watching you and your fellow boohoos savage each other over and the public safety goons over the dwindling muncipal resources.
Hey numbnuts,
Are you threatening me? Saying my days are numbered? In what way?
Bring it on. I’m not worried. I’ve dealt with far bigger idiots than you.
BTW, the list is 40 years old. So what? Several of those plans are still active. I’m in one of them.
The one thing this blog has determined is that your pathetic little band believes its sense of mediocrity should be forced on all of us.
And as I pointed out before. The companies that offer defined benefit plans have the ability to choose from the best. So you needn’t worry about ever working there.
https://ups.managehr.com/CompensationandSavingsProgram.htm
Done. That was easy. What’s next?
Are you saying UPS offers 3@50 defined benefit? Seriously?
Yes, right about that for the Western state drivers
including CA.
Even better than 3 @ 50 for the New York State drivers.
And it is possible for many drivers to retire much younger than 50 also.
Thinking about a career change?
I call bullshit!
Of course you do. When one’s life is as pathetic as yours it is much easier to take that path than actually going out and doing something worthwhile.
Prove it.
Nice post.
Another company that these folks will never employ these folks.
They don’t allow idiots to get paid while writing idiot blog posts all day.
Their culture is very unique.
Their CEO once drove one of those brown trucks.
A job that more than likely would have killed most of these idiots.
And, while the job only requires a GED, they pay their drivers significantly higher than minimum wage.
Nice example. UPS’ pension fund was yellow flagged for massive underfundage earlier this year.