Dealing with Denial: A Test for Teachers
We fielded all sorts of bitter accusations from teachers when FFFF handed out our list of teacher and administrator pay at this week’s teacher rallies. Responses ranged from the simple “the list is garbage” and “my brother does not make that kind of money” all the way to “the District distorted the figures because they’re against us.”
Yes, we explained that the numbers came straight from district HQ (Here are details, in case you’ve missed it: FJUHSD Salaries over $90,000 and FSD Salaries over $90,000.) But some of the chanting unioneers could not be swayed.
Teachers of the list, here is your challenge:
Show us your pay stubs from the 2009-2010 school year! If you can prove that your salary was overstated in our flier, we’ll go back to district HQ and take them to task on your behalf.
Otherwise, we’ll just go with what we already know: this list is 100% true and correct.
(Cricket sound)
It’s true and they know it. That’s why they resort to the whole masters degree argument.
“We will take them to task”
We might hide in our car in front of the District Office and record shit on our cell phone.
We might get scared shitless by old Asian men in from of Pho for you.
We might have our butt pucker when the Chippys tell us to stop playing on the freeway.
We have a long history of taking “them” to task.
Oh Brother!
Either show the pay stub or shut your mouth!
Better yet IRS 1040 would be better since it shows deductions for the alleged school supplies expenses.
GED.
Fred,
Whats your point?
Please enlighten us.
Why not just plug your ears and scream “La, la,la,la,la” as loud as you can? The fact is the information is true and not one of the union idiots at the protest wanted to defend it. Rather, the truth hurt so much they insisted the information was a lie.
Well, put up or shut up.
P.S. When it comes to physical cowardice (which you seem to be implying as if it realates some how to the truth of the posted teacher salaries), please read the posts related to the Fullerton P.D. drawing down on Pastor Nordell, his wife and kids.
I went to what were supposed to have been pretty good public schools my whole life and I never realized how crappy the teachers were until I went to a small private college and discovered how bad they had really been.
Sure, there were a few good ones, but a lot of them were just awful. The fact is too many teachers carry bogus degrees or degrees from the big public diploma mills. Many are undereducated and were poor students themselves. Many received preferential treatment along the way.
Mediocrity. At best.
Pam Keller holds a bachelors degree from CSUF, and all of her students think she’s pretty darn smart.
Pam Kellar does not have students. She is a teacher in name and benefits only. Her time is spent running errands, collaborating and going to protests.
defeated…
whats the average wage for teachers? How many make under 90,000? What do you think is fair pay for a high school principal? Do you have any idea how much work they actually do? What is a teachers starting salary? What do you think a well qualified teacher should make? I dont think you have addressed a single one of these questions.
What are you talking about? I related my experience. MY teachers were mostly crappy. I had a lot of catching up to do when I went to a real school.
Let’s start with what does a she/him think they should make?
The simple fact is that most of these teachers are milking a system that will harm children for generations because of the pay/retirement system. The higher taxes now are only the beginning. Ask 20 something New Yorkers why they are leaving the city. The reason Is the same as Californians in Texas, Washington and Oregon. Taxes! Public payroll is fair and neighbors aren’t ripping off neighbors.
Hollis Dugan, or Travis or Tony whatever you are calling yourself at the time?
What does the Fullerton Police Department have to do with the fact you guys are laughable Kunts?
idiot alert
Hey Teach, or cop or fireslug: your dirty little secret is out. You are not underpaid, dedicated public servants. You are grossly overpaid, underworked, self-servants!
These idiots don’t have an answer about what the proper pay is for a teacher. They just bitch and complain. All they can say it’s too much.
Bushala and the THC clan will complain that sun rose in east and will set in the west just to have something to bitch about.
Ha Ha. People make 90K a year and you don’t like it. Too fucking bad. Now go fuck yourself.
Hey Teach, or cop or fireslug: your dirty little secret is out. You are not underpaid, dedicated public servants. You are grossly overpaid, underworked, self-servants.
The government school teachers are vastly overcompensated (for their capabilities, productivity and accomplishments) ONLY because they financially support the corrupt politicized Teachers Union which funnels taxpayer money (members’ dues as well as unpaid political advocacy-bully mob “labor”) into the coffers of the Leftist-Communist Totalitarian political party (or to quisling RINO frauds).
Similarly regarding the Police Union members and the Fireman’s Union members self-serving corrupt thuggish political activity.
The evidence of tremendous distortion in financial compensation for these jobs is revealed in the ridiculous spectacle of 1,000 or 2,000 applicants responding to a single entry level policeman’s job opening (in Fullerton several years ago – and similarly elsewhere all over the nation).
Additionally, the fact that NONE of these government “workers” ever leave to take a normal free market competitive (i.e. non-government) job, demonstrates that the financial compensation is vastly out of sync with free market forces.
These “workers” and “professionals” are overcompensated (that is, paid more than they are worth) because they participate in the corruption of our free speech political process to purchase elective offices for candidates who will do their bidding, contrary to law and expectations of taxpayers and the community at large (e.g. parents who MUST send their children to these pathetic Leftist propaganda mills or partake of the other government “services”).
I think we have finally reached the time when a local candidate who is “supported” by the corrupt “affiliated” government Union will find such “endorsement” to be a kiss of death for his candidacy.
I think we have finally reached the time when a local candidate who is “supported” by the corrupt “affiliated” government Union will find such “endorsement” to be a kiss of death for his candidacy.
Very good points Rain,
I think we have finally reached the time when a local candidate who is “supported” by the mean spirited nut jobs associated with this blog will be outed for the self serving, divisive, hate mongers they are and will find such “endorsement” to be a kiss of death for his or her candidacy.
P.S. Sorry you did not make it through the screening process for the position of Entry Level Police Officer. I’m sure that must have been upsetting for you.
The reason that I recall that situation with the entry level Fullerton Police Department hiring was I had been advertising for many weeks during that same period to hire some people at approximately the same salary level (with normal health insurance benefits and 401K matching, etc.) BUT the jobs I offered required actual skills based on college level education in a demanding exacting field where productive results are expected every day by customers who can easily go elsewhere. In other words the folks I hired all earned their pay (and I was happy to promote them along for years in order to keep them).
Reality must sound very “hateful” to phony government “workers” like you.
I remember when the economy was roaring in the early to late 2000’s when everyone was construction and real estate rich in phony new money Orange County, and they couldn’t give away police jobs. Vacant positions sat empty not because they didn’t have the money to fund the positions but because there weren’t nearly enough qualified candidates.
Is that how you got the job?
Wrong again douchebag. How’s your $10/hour assembly line job working out for ya?
Nobody else remembers giving away police jobs. Because it NEVER happened. GEDs are always standing in long lines looking for government 3@50 gigs.
You need to apply that USC MBA in the private sector, Mango, and take your chances with the rest of the working population (i.e. s taxpayers).
Fred, leave Mango alone. He’s busy filling potholes in Lake Forest!
Who Farted, there’s a big ol’ pothole on El Toro Road near Muirlands. It just wrenched my alignment all out of shape. Please take care of it ASAP or I’ll have to report you to Peter Herzog!
Sorry, pal my pot hole filling days are long behind me…I have the city and county of L.A. to thank for the slipped disk and bad knees for that.
Good answer Fart, except that it is a complete lie.
Can someone buy my timeshare in Carlsbad please? Make me an offer or Sparky gets it
I’ll make a bid, should I make the payment to the CAIR attorney, Dan’s past due taxes, Chris AIDS clinic or just cut to the chase and make it out to Suite C so Laura can get something from the divorce settlement?
Let us know Dan
Chris’ condition is under control, Dan’s past due taxes were paid up, Matt and Laura are doing just fine. But thanks for bringing up the fact that I owe serious money to the IRS and The State of California too. what is clear is I can’t manage money nearly as well as Sean Mill or Michelle Martinez but I still have my house for now unlike either of them
Matt and Laura may have some more ‘splainin’ to do pretty soon.
Are you freaking kidding. Sean Mill making yet another gay bashing comment. What a coward. I’ll bet Sal Tinajero, one of the overpaid Fullerton teachers is so proud.
man Sean Mill has turned into Puff Daddy; he’s huge! 340-360 lbs at least and he’s vegan? Lay off the beer and pizza Sean. When you jog, your neighbors think there’s an earthquake happening.
Compton, I for one have no issue with what the teachers make. My issue with them is that they are protesting against the taxpayers. Why don’t they argue that schools are a priority that should be accommodated with the budget after the taxes lapse? They are trying to force me and the rest of the public to accept that the only way we can be for them is to be for more taxes. I don’t accept that premise. I am for schools and I am not for extending the taxes.
We were at the kfi rally on Thursday. We listned to a teacher from Placentia Yorba Linda speek on how she couldnt make it if they cut teachers pay. Well we followed her to here car and we watched her drive away in a 2010 Lexus. Boy she has it rough
Sure she did.
Teachers deserve to be paid well if they do there job well. Tenure has to go plain and simple.
Rain said:
BUT the jobs I offered required actual skills based on college level education in a demanding exacting field where productive results are expected every day by customers who can easily go elsewhere. In other words the folks I hired all earned their pay (and I was happy to promote them along for years in order to keep them).
Oh, bull shit….save me the fucking the utopian private sector man’s burden of always having to be hustling….Save me the superiority complex….the private sector is full of mouth breathing, do nothing imbeciles too. Don’t think that the well-educated and experienced public sector workers don’t work as hard to earn a living or have to face fierce competition for promotions.
“the private sector is full of mouth breathing, do nothing imbeciles too.”
Of course it is. They are fired when identified. And they don’t get defined benefit pensions, either.
Public sector employees are NOT “well-educated” Unless you count scraps of paper from diploma mills. They get their annual step increases for average performance and never have to worry about actually accomplishing anything.
Stop believing everything Glen Beck and Sara Palin spoon feeds you. The private sector is hamstrung by a lot of the same personnel rules that hamstring the public sector as well. You have protected classes of people that you can’t just throw out in the street on a whim. Public employees get fired all the time as well, it just takes a little longer and there’s a little more paperwork involved. I’ve fired over a dozen public employees in my career for various reasons. And depending on the organization, step increases are not always guaranteed.
Oh, by the way, I guess my B.A. from Standford and MPA from Syracuse are just scraps of paper too. You’re an unemployed, bitter malcontent….nothing more.
“Giving human food to birds can breed disease and cause unnatural behavior in animals and disrupt their migration patterns, according to Luis Estevez, city public works manager.
“Now, feeding ducks is fun,” Estevez said. “The problem is that they receive a steady diet of food that they shouldn’t be eating. I’ve seen people feeding them Cheetos, I’ve seen people feeding them Cheez-Its. … They should be allowed to graze naturally on natural food sources.”
Good thinking, coz. Cuz you got a BA from “Standford.” And then you dropped way, way down the academic food chain (think academic Cheetos) to get an MPA at Syracuse. An d now you fill potholes on Lake Forest. Failing to the top?
Geere: What do you think is a fair salary for a well qualified teacher? So you are for schools and tax cuts? California already has one of the lowest per pupil spending rates in the nation, and it has gone down by about a thousand dollars in real terms in the last decade alone. You can only reap what you sow. So how would you solve the states budget woes? Where would you like to cut? This site is notorious for never suggesting any practical solutions, just a bunch of screaming about being taxed too much. It is incredibly ingnorant to say revenue increases have no place in a sane discussion about public finances. A buisness raises prices when cost go up, government has to as well. Of course the money has to be spent in the upmost effecient ways, and I agree the state is not as effecient as it could be, but government waste isnt actually a huge percentage of the budget as much as 4f would like it to be.
Could it be that the semi-literate, carpetbagger supporting compton is really a liberal teacher?
The profile sure fits: stupid, gullible, uneducated.
compton, In fairness, if we just cut out redevelopment which diverts money from schools and went back to the level of employment the state had during 2008 (right before business and everything else tanked) we would have no need for cuts to schools. Teachers could keep what they have and kids wouldn’t get the shaft. Everything is not fire and brimstone. It just seems to me at least that the teachers dont even want to consider taking on the legislature to get their share of the current pool of money. I agree with Geere, the taxpayers aren’t the enemy and I think the teachers would bve better served asking all of us to join them in demanding cuts elswhere.
NO compton, a business does NOT “raise prices when costs go up” – the market sets prices and thus the market sets salaries/compensation in businesses.
The business manages-reduces its costs unless or until the market allows some relief via market price increase OR ELSE the business makes losses – unless it manages costs other costs or until it goes out of the business.
ONLY screwed up government “lives” in the fairy land of cost based rather than market based operations, UNLESS it is a tricky government-business which bribes and purchases corrupt politicians who operate-expand-continue such scams as “Redevelopment Agencies” and eminent domain takings of private property and corrupt “political” land use restrictions (i.e. takings of private property), etc. ALL part of the same unconstitutional corruption of government, which the unconstitutional Leftist-Socialist expansion of government has wrought to destroy our free market economy and our freedoms.
There is no justification for ridiculous non-market non-competitive compensation of government “workers” unions – it is all pure corruption, condoned-encouraged by the corrupt political officeholders who were purchased by the Unions.
compton, I have no issue with the listed salaries on the sheet. I have an issue with the teachers demanding the taxpayers pay more to give it to them. I would be happy as a non expert on the state budget to throw out some ideas where else to cut but I get the feeling the teachers union will not support anything that cuts from anywhere.
All I see on this post is that you “say” it’s true. I see no link to sources. Here’s the numbers I got and the link to where I got them.
Here are the real numbers, based on 2009-10. (http://www.ocregister.com/news/-280839–.html)
Fullerton School District
287 employees making $25-50,000
350 employees making $50-75,000
289 employees making $75-99,000
48 employees making $100-150,000
3 employees making $150-200,000
1 employees making $200+
Fullerton Joint Union
188 employees making $25-50,000
294 employees making $50-75,000
328 employees making $75-99,000
226 employees making $100-150,000
8 employees making $150-200,000
1 employee making $200+
I counted up how many of these employees were actually teachers. Here are the numbers.
FSD – There are 0 teachers being paid over $100,000
FJU – There are 179 teachers being paid over $100,000
FSD – There are 83 teachers making between 90-100
FJU – There are 139 teachers making between 90-100
There are 401 teachers total in Fullerton making 90+
FSD has 50 work sites. That’s 1 and half employees per work site making 90+
FJU has 10 work sites. That’s approx 32 employees per work site making 90+
Living wage in Fullerton for one adult and one child is 23.70/hr. (http://www.livingwage.geog.psu.edu/places/0605928000)
That’s 50,000 a year.
FJU has 12 teachers being paid under the living wage
FSD has 66 teachers being paid under the living wage
The majority of teachers are in Fullerton are in the middle range between 50 and 75.
My such excellent-careful “research” and data.
Did you mention anything about the other FOUR MONTHS out of that gruelling work load “year” when the rest of us are earning our “living wage?”
This is the quality of “analysis” which School Board meetings are regularly dazzled with.
But who has time to attend and listen to such rubbish?
That is why the individuals ELECTED to represent us in such public offices must NOT be phony bought and paid for “ex-Union-cops” and “ex-Union-teachers” and government “collaborative” (what the Hell is that?) types, instead of normal citizens with notable credible honest principled work-life-family experiences and values.
Too bad, Egon77, that this isn’t a phony Leftist “newspaper” because then the voices which expose and explode your vacant “analysis” would be silenced and kept out of the “Union.”
Wow. Poetic, Rain. I believe my analysis may be no less vacant than your own.
Travis, could it be you are bitter that these people are successful and you flunked out of UCI? Go back to being a stoned out video game virgin loser.
Sad GED. Your scam has been uncovered the “loser” taxpayers are fed up. Your six-figure days are numbered.
Fred,
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take the bait…..What’s the deal with the GED thing?
Come on Alcaraz, take a stab at it…..
I know, let’s pay government workers and teachers $40k. In that way, all of you know-nothing, sniveling douchebags will end up with the government and school system you THINK you have now. I’m not worried about the teacher or public employee that earns $90k per year, I’m worried about the drooling mouth breathers, aka Tea bagging cunt bags who’ll do the same work for half the pay. Hopefully we’ll end up looking more like Alabama or some other southern shit box state.
But we have a shit box state already – after the Dems and RINOS gave away the store to the public employee unions.
BTW, for a “well-educated” teacher/cop you sure have a naughty, GED potty-mouth.
Foul language only adds color to the conversation. Don’t worry, I’m sure you can find yourself a nice assembly line job in North Dakota….dress warm and don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.
Mango is that you? If not, you have a pea-brained twin.
Feddie,
Come on lay it down brother…….Whats with the GED thing? Please explain for us in reasonable detail………come on Fred show us your superior intellect.
I saw Riley Hall hanging around Hillcrest park the other day. I think he’s hot.
More enlightenment from the FPOA/CTA.
99WK CAVE
I thought Riley Hall was Travis
How’s that GED workin’ out for you? Pretty well I’d say.
These union clowns are making Santa Ana Stan look intelligent.
If you had gone through the salary schedules (here for FSD, couldn’t find one for the other), you’d notice quite quickly that in order to make 90,000 dollars in a year, they would have to hold a masters degree and more than twenty years of experience. Given those factors, 90,000 per year is quite reasonable, especially in a high cost of living area such as Orange County.
That’s a reasonable argument, but when you’re dealing with unemployed has-beens, malcontents and conspiracy theorists, you might as well try farting through a screen door instead.
Hey Farted/Mango, I hope you’re not blogging on company time. And by company time I mean your city-owned computer, on city time.
Fred, you know our old pal Mango? Send me an e-mail!
Please stop picking on my friend and political mentor Sal Tinajero. He works so hard a couple of months a year babysitting those poor disadvantaged kids up in Sunny Hills while his assistant coach teaches them how to cheat in debate contest. Then he goes down to Santa Ana Council meeting to help the poor and needy before heading over to his appointed position on the Sanitation District. Just because he collects three paychecks and three pensions doesn’t mean he’s not worth it. Angels season tickets cost slot you guys.
I heard that Sean left Advantage and went to Fidelity????
But, that wouldn’t matter, I see Chris is helping Matt Cunningham ease his way back into the blogesphere, that will smooth out when you (Dan) announce your new enterprise the LIBERAL CA and Matt appears as the token REPUGLICAN.
Hopefully the $$$ are hidden from Laura!
Fidelity already has enough entry level flunkys
Fidelity might have called the line in mothers room instead of mine.
Was Fidelity offering me the hole punch emptier job or the stapler refiller position?
Mango, you’re supposedly wealthy. Did you make your pile workin’ for the gummint? I think so. Do you think your city council will like finding out you like making fun of real workers in the private sector?
Um, sorry but I retired earlier this year and without a pile of cash like so many others. Now I’m free to blog, pick my nose and scratch my butt whenever I like! Although I’m going to need to pick up a part time gig so I can pay for medical coverage.
But you (as Mango) said you did have a pile of cash.
By the way, I’m not kidding. I want that potholse on El Toro Road fixed ASAP. Don’t make me call the City Manager! Dixon’s gone. No more freeloading!
Uh, huh. Get back to work, coz.
May I just say that this line of comments has gone as far off the beaten path as any string in this blog’s history. I can not even figure out what topic most of you are even talking about.
Hollis, your old pal Mango is about to be outed.
How about teachers that sell pot to administrators on campus because they have “a card”. Sorry to the folks that don’t send thier kids to Title One Schools this may not apply to you
I’m not on that list, but real close (82,000).. and I gotta say- I worked my butt off to get where I am. I took summer school every year of college and graduated early (3.5 years). I immediately got a job at 22 as a teacher and have then TAUGHT regualr and summer school each year. I went to school at night and got my masters and that helped my pay. I do not think I am over paid, or underpaid.. but every day I deal with high school kids who are sometimes great, and sometimes pain in the butts 🙂 . I am worth what I make.. I am a great teacher!
There’s nothing worse than a person who pats themselves on the back. Nothing,