Bankhead and McKinley supporters, no Jones supporters yet, have gone in to a couple of the grocery stores where the recall signature gatherers are stationed in front of the store, and will ask the store manager to remove the signature gatherers because they find the recall effort an affront to theeir political sensibilities. This sometimes may result in a citizens arrest being requested by the store manager to the Fullerton Police department, however to the best of my knowledge, the Orange County’s District Attorneys office has thus far chosen not to pursuit criminal or misdemeanor charges against those citizens gathering signatures on behalf of the recall of Mayor Dick Jones and Councilmans Pat McKinley and Don Bankhead.
This is essentially correct. There have been 3 store manager initiated citizen’s arrests and all that means is that a Fullerton Cop (twice Dan Hughes) assists a private citizen in making the arrest. They are legally compelled to assist any citizen who wishes to arrest any other citizen for any violation. The arrest in these cases is simply a report which is taken, turned into the DA and the DA decides whether they are going to pursue it. In all cases, the “arrested” person has remained at the store collecting signatures. The DA rejected the first two within 24 hours each. I have not heard back about the 3rd, but the circumstances were identical. All of these were Albertsons. I can tell you that the Albertson’s manager on Yorba Linda and Placentia (which is Fullerton believe it or not) is a very cool guy and is going through the paces that his corporate is directing him to go through. All of these instances have been highly cooperative and involved no detention, handcuffs or anything of the like. Just the cooperative exchange of paperwork.
In my firm opinion, Albertson’s corporate is radically misinterpreting the case law. They characterize case-law which is about keeping obvious foot traffic pathways clear as allowing them to demand the removal of petition-gatherers. I don’t blame them for feeling that way. It’s just not what the case law says. Political free-speech still seems to hold some significant power in this country where freedoms seem to be deteriorating daily. Kudos to how the Fullerton PD has handled these few anecdotal cases.
So…can your clarify if its just Albertsons acting alone, or if private, anti-recall people are actually initiating the action? If the latter, no surprise…just more dirty pool, reactionary antics.
As “Albertson’s Corporate” is not typically standing around in front of stores, it is equally likely that it’s the complainers who are pushy (Hi Larry!) and the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
If Bankhead, Jones and McKinley recalled then there cronies that keep and have kept them in positions of power and influence will fall with them. then maybe Fullerton will have the opportunity to restore its representative government
The people gathering signatures for the recall effort aren’t going anywhere until these three councilman’s petitions have been successfully submitted to the Orange County Registrar of Voters. This ain’t over till we say it’s over.
You may hope they don’t go anywhere. I’ll bet you were confident that DA Rackaucus wouldn’t file charges on the FPD 6, didn’t you?
We (justice seekers) were afraid of the same thing, however, there is the FBI who are being quiet at the moment. Just think of that as the “Calm Before the Storm” for the Fullerton Police Department and the current city council.
The tribe is getting very restless. Those who were formerly on the fence are now siding with the their fellow tribe members. The truth is slowly but surely seeping out. And the truth is the most detested enemy of those who are sworn to protect the status quo. Places to hide are becoming far and few inbetween. Eventually 95% will agree that the emperor is, in fact, bare assed naked and won’t be afraid to say it. Keep the faith.
Two things are inevitable: rain this Wednesday, and an agency who is about to get involved in the Kelly Thomas murder whose name contains two consonants and one vowel.
The only reason I mention rain is because I don’t know if KFI can set up broadcast equipment in wet conditions.
It’s so funny how these 3 fucktards just don’t understand that only their cronies and fucked up families are the only ones behind them…the whole world hates these 3 punkass geriatric pukes.
It’s repulsive to hear how disconnected law enforcement, and in this case, the city council are from regular citizens. How they believe their way of insanity “ruling” is the only way. How do you justify what happened? I guess when you’re part of a Bad Boy Club, you don’t go against it.
“TOXIC CLEANSING ”
That’s precisely what the city of Fullerton officials need. Nice Fullerorange.
Is this your first post on this blog ‘Nor~Cal’? It’s great to see the support, on this site alone, from folks far away from Fullerton. Thanks for your support.
This is from an article about the Ramos bail out, quoting his attorney, Barnett:
Barnett disputed the chain of events and said Rackauckas took Ramos’ quote out of context.
“There is the statement, `You see these fists? They’re going to F you up,’ but the very next thing that’s said is, `…if you don’t do what you’re instructed to do,'” Barnett said. “This wasn’t a threat to simply beat someone; this was an instruction to comply with orders, lawful orders.”
Threatening to “F you up” is not a lawful order. It it’s called a terroristic threat where I live and it is illegal.
Haha, yeah. I love that this is something they thought cleared up “misconceptions,” Any time someone uses foul language or threats of physical harm, the “lawful” parts of what they say in the same breath are pretty much immediately discredited.
but the tape also shows Ramos and his “Simon says” orders that a normal person couldnt understand let alone some who had a mental diorder-oh yeah, and there’s Kelly’s beaten corpse too.
Yeah, sitting on a curb a few inches higher than the street with your legs stretched out and your hands on your knees just sounds like a really awkward position.
Furthermore, the dramatic donning of the latex gloves was also an implied threat of more than just “a lawful order.” It implies “I’m going to F you up enough to need to wear gloves so my hands don’t get bloody.” So it’s not a coincidence that Kelly Thomas’ blood was everywhere by the time the brutal and fatal beating was over.
Get the signatures then get backing to get rid of the three fools on city council. I call them 3 fools, but the ex police chief is merely using his council role to cover up 15 years of poor hiring practices and giving in to the police union on every issue. So time to get rid of the TOXIC COUNCILMEN.
Dear MeYou,
I thought, from reading the DA’s Press Release, that Officer Wolfe struck Kelly Thomas on the thigh, and that this blow crippled him to fall to his knees. After that, he kicked his knee into the abdomen of Kelly Thomas.
Can you give me the reference to your source for your statement? If the blow did not cripple Kelly, but rather only set him to flee, then that is extremely important. It would prove conclusively that Officer Wolfe is more guilty than Officer Ramos. Why? Because he knew that the flight was not caused by “guilty behavior”, but out of reasonable fear of additional, unnecessary pain.
WSH
wait.. does the written release say something different from the video of t-racks announcement?? vid is here.. http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/tag/kelly-thomas-beating/ scroll down to sept 21st… now i’m going to look for the written release you speak of..
My thanks for those who sent me this text:
“Ramos is accused of tackling Thomas to the ground. Once Thomas was on the ground, Ramos is accused of punching him
several times in the left ribs, using his hands to hold Thomas’ neck, and partially laying on Thomas to use his own body
weight to pin the victim to the ground. He is accused of using his body weight to minimize Thomas’ movement as other
officers arrived. … Officer Wolfe …
He continued to approach Thomas as the victim backed away. Officer Wolfe struck Thomas in the left leg with his baton. Thomas then turned and ran in front of one of the parked patrol
vehicles. As Ramos chased directly after him, Officer Wolfe ran the opposite direction around the back of the patrol vehicle and met Thomas and Ramos on the other side. A physical altercation began on the other side of the vehicle.
Officer Wolfe tackled Thomas to the ground with Ramos, kneed and punched Thomas, and used his body weight to minimize Thomas’ movement as other officers arrived.”
In a few other posts, I had misunderstood that the baton’s blow was used by Officer Wolfe to get Kelly Thomas to the ground. In fact, it only put Kelly Thomas to flight. And this is the part which is on the video. Further, Kelly Thomas had used no force in the presence of the officers; had not resisted arrest; and fled after excessive force and paid was used against him.
As a a matter of law applied to these alleged (and apparently videotaped) facts, Officer Wolfe commenced a pursuit of a person who had lawfully fled, to avoid Officer Wolfe’s unlawful arrest tactics. As a matter of law, this is false arrest, and commenced by Officer Wolfe. When Officer Ramos chases after Kelly Thomas, he is merely aiding and abetting the crime which Officer Wolfe commenced.
Because Officer Wolfe commenced a false arrest, under California’s mechanistic “felony murder” rules, the resulting death of Kelly Thomas was a murder under the “felony murder” rule. Officer Wolfe is guilty of murder under the “felony murder” rule, if he really struck Kelly Thomas with a baton and set him into justifiable flight. Anyone who takes First Semester Criminal Law in law school would know that, and probably fail the exam if he or she did not derive the conclusion which I just presented.
It is therefore clear that the DA’s office is knowingly and willfully failing to prosecute a “felony murder” case of which it is aware. Because Tony Rackauckas had the Press Release in his hands at the Press Conference and knows its contents, he knows everything that I have just set forth above. I can no longer fail to blame him personally; I accuse him of being a corrupt politician, who is willingly and knowingly derelict in his duties, and is committing the crime of official dereliction of duties, in violation of Government Code section 1222. I publicly accuse Tony Rackauckas of being a misdemeanant under Government Code section 1222.
NOW I understand the recent post, below, which mentions the silence of Tony Rackauckas when he was meeting with Ron Thomas. Tony Rackauckas has willfully, knowingly, and corruptly failed to prosecute a “felony murder” crime, whose factual elements are established to his satisfaction … as evidenced by a Press Release whose contents are known to him.
Signal. Signal. Code. There is enough presented above, for an affected member of the Fullerton public to obtain a Writ of Mandate. This is the extremely rare condition where a public prosecutor’s public admission of his own “fact-finding” makes out his duty to prosecute, as a matter of law applied to undisputed facts.
Thank you to everyone in FFFF who has helped me to specifically identify and expose this official crime by Tony Rackauckas. It is a true “tragedy”, in the Classical literary sense, because Tony Rackauckas did so many wonderful, honorable things when he was first elected back in 1990s.
WSH
blessusall :
This is from an article about the Ramos bail out, quoting his attorney, Barnett:
Barnett disputed the chain of events and said Rackauckas took Ramos’ quote out of context.
“There is the statement, `You see these fists? They’re going to F you up,’ but the very next thing that’s said is, `…if you don’t do what you’re instructed to do,’” Barnett said. “This wasn’t a threat to simply beat someone; this was an instruction to comply with orders, lawful orders.”
Threatening to “F you up” is not a lawful order. It it’s called a terroristic threat where I live and it is illegal.
Barnett is going to be laughed out of the courtroom.
Hopefully, but by all accounts he is good at his job. But if there ever were a difficult case to win, I’m sure this would be it. Although, all it takes is one juror who sees things differently to throw the case.
merijoe :
but the tape also shows Ramos and his “Simon says” orders that a normal person couldnt understand let alone some who had a mental diorder-oh yeah, and there’s Kelly’s beaten corpse too.
Agreed. Why couldn’t Ramos just say something like, “hey Kelly, I know you’re not a thief. Someone called and said a homeless person was peeping in cars. Yes, there are several other homeless people around, but i chose to detain you. I can only detain you briefly if I feel there is probable cause that you did it. I know you don’t have any weapons. Could you just sit over on curb a minute while we check your backpack for any obvious indications you were involved. This will only take a couple minutes Kelly. Then we’ll move on.”
Why did they have to try and humiliate Kelly in his environment with all those goofy commands like touch your nose to your knee or whatever.
A very wise CHP officer told me one time, “you create your own freight”, and boy has the Fullerton Police Department created a truck load of trouble for themselves by being so confrontational and heavy-handed with people.
Because Ramos intended to seriously hurt then put Kelly away for awhile for resisting arrest. This would have discouraged Kelly from ever stepping foot in Fullerton.
I think during the scuffle they thought: “Fuck it lets just kill him. He’s a bum no one is gonna care”.
They know a lot of homeless people are from out of state and long forgotten by their families.
Its not the first time they’re done this. I wouldn’t be surprised if “Homeless Liason”/Swat Team Member Corporal DeCaprio hasnt killed a few homeless people during his tenure with FPD.
Here’s something else. In the academy they teach you that if your partner starts flying off the handle you are to step in and take control of the situation. In fact this question is on one of the LD’s “use of force” exam. What I don’t understand is why the other 4 are not being accountable for their actions!
Hey sunshine and copcar have you seen the video? Were you there??? Didn’t think so! How can you ASSume something you know nothing about! Copcar you are an idiot you act like you know everything on this blog! Like you are the voice of reason! Get over yourself! How can you stop something if you weren’t there to see it!
The thing that gave Ramos a stiffer sentence than the others was that he knew the context of the sitution .When the others showed up they supposedly didn’t know that he was provoked and was just trying to save his life. Will this argument of Tony R. handywork stand up in court.It is known by the eyewitnesses that he was never resisting because he couldn’t. Those cops that work night in and night out didn’t really know what was going on? That explains why Cicinelli was hitting a lifeless body becasause Kelly never was resisting so when he passed out they never knew the better until he was lifeless.This beating was no doubt staged.But proving this in acourt of law may be difficult. That may explain the charges although I cannot believe that Cicinelli is walking away from this with practically nothing and Ramos will be given favor as he was acting in a way that was consistent with most of the other officers not charged. Boy was this a set up.
Hey Sunshine,
In your profound statement, “In fact this question is on one of the LD’s”use of force” exam.
What is the definition of “LD” ????????????????
Have you taken the exam in the past???
Much that is law enforcement is learned through these domains. Topics such as laws, procedures, protocol, drugs, etc. You must pass so many tests on these learning domains in order to pass the academy.
Hey sunshine and copcar have you seen the video? Were you there??? Didn’t think so! How can you ASSume something you know nothing about! Copcar you are an idiot you act like you know everything on this blog! Like you are the voice of reason! Get over yourself! How can you stop something if you weren’t there to see it!
*** Wow,
I do not know everything, nor do I act like I do. All I do here is state facts, and what is lawful. I also throw in a truckload of decency, honesty, and compassion, because that seems to be sadly lacking with some LEO’s of today; it most certainly was in the 6 while they were killing Kelly Thomas.
I also know you are not happy with someone daring to speak other than the company line here. I had to when I was on, however, I still did not play their games regarding violence and the such.
Sounds like you would be much happier in the BCC website, however, I do welcome you to stay. You help add balance.
Missed you and Fedup at the protest on Saturday. Hope Miss Fedup feels better. Notre Dame won so that should help……….
My brother, nephew and I were sitting further back on the City Hall grass and we noticed a few looking at us with a jaded eye. After a while, another protester that we know came up to us and told us that a few folks thought we were undercover police gathering intel. I thought that was kind of ironic after all I have related to you has happened to us over the years. But hey, I guess we all gotta be something, or apparently something.
In regards to the posts from others who felt the other officers should have stepped in to stop the carnage, I agree. Another family member of mine also agrees. He is a retired United States Marine who recently returned from one of him numerous tours in Iraq. He is a battle hardened Marine who is tough but fair. He was a high ranking officer and told me that even in battle conditions he encountered in Iraq, the behavior exhibited by these officers would NOT have been tolerated. Let me re-iterate, NOT tolerated even in battle conditions and he has faced many life and death situations over the years as a proud Marine serving his country in foreign lands with enemy combatants looking to terminate his and his Marine’s lives.
He is disgusted by what he has seen in Fullerton as it relates to the police and I can tell you he is one of the most decent men I know. He is and always will be a hero to me.
This kind of thing says it all to me. Why do our police feel that their personal security is so important that it allows them to justify commiting crimes that would be rare to see even in combat situations during wars?!
It is puzzling to me that Cicinelli who was seen doing most of the violent beating is charged less than Ramos. This Cicinelli seems to have some ‘soft-heart’ attention from the higher-ups, including the DA, since he survived a facial shoot-out with LAPD years ago.
Again meriho you are an idiot! And copcar you absolutely do not just speak the truth or fact! If all 6 were watching the “beating” as you all say then all 6 would be charged! Again you fffer’s have no clue what you are talking about especially meriho! She is the worst poster on this blog!
Wow! you are a fruitfly that wont go away -the DA the DA the DA the DA madw it clear that the others helped -Logic would tell you that the time #2-6 rolled in and saw Kelly’s condition- lifeless unmoving, corned beef face -then someone should have said “enough” oh yeah and that goes for the knucklehead who watched the beating in real time on the pole video.. and just because they werent charged with anything doesnt mean they didnt do anything-ffffer
all of them should be charged with murder and I didnt have to BE there to see it-
I’ve never “seen” the inside of a jail, but I wouldnt want to go to one-derrrrr
Wow! :
Again meriho you are an idiot! And copcar you absolutely do not just speak the truth or fact! If all 6 were watching the “beating” as you all say then all 6 would be charged! Again you fffer’s have no clue what you are talking about especially meriho! She is the worst poster on this blog!
COWARD… 150lb man and it took six worthless punk cowards like you to PUT HANDCUFFS ON HIM
punk is all you are.. tell us why they had to murder him.. 150lb man vs 6 fat overfed and overpaid miscreants.. and THEY MURDERED HIM!
Welcome to the world of “Emotions & Reasoning”.
The Prosecuting Attorney will present the case to the jury based on the facts of evidence with a logical and reasonable summation.
The Defense Attorney will refute the facts of evidence and attempt to convince the jury with an explanation based on the emotional conditions of the defendant at the time of the incident.
Unfortunately,in this case the victim is deceased and can not appear before the jury.
Is second degree murder considered “warm blooded” murder?
ALL MURDERS ARE COLD
Murders are either emotional or for/about MONEY.
Kelly Thomas may have been perceived as an uncontrollable threat to some night shift FPD cops.
Down Town Fullerton (DTF) is a two sided coin, day and night.
The homeless don’t get much peaceful sleep!!
9c1copcar :
Wow! on October 2, 2011
Hey sunshine and copcar have you seen the video? Were you there??? Didn’t think so! How can you ASSume something you know nothing about! Copcar you are an idiot you act like you know everything on this blog! Like you are the voice of reason! Get over yourself! How can you stop something if you weren’t there to see it!
*** Wow,
I do not know everything, nor do I act like I do. All I do here is state facts, and what is lawful. I also throw in a truckload of decency, honesty, and compassion, because that seems to be sadly lacking with some LEO’s of today; it most certainly was in the 6 while they were killing Kelly Thomas.
I also know you are not happy with someone daring to speak other than the company line here. I had to when I was on, however, I still did not play their games regarding violence and the such.
Sounds like you would be much happier in the BCC website, however, I do welcome you to stay. You help add balance.
SIX PUNKS LIKE YOU CANT PUT HANDCUFFS ON A SMALL MALNOURISHED HOMELESS MAN…
FEDUP and I will try to make it out there this Wednesday. I missed the camraderie out at the protests Saturday. It really brings people together as one for a good cause.
eyewitness :
The thing that gave Ramos a stiffer sentence than the others was that he knew the context of the sitution .When the others showed up they supposedly didn’t know that he was provoked and was just trying to save his life. Will this argument of Tony R. handywork stand up in court.It is known by the eyewitnesses that he was never resisting because he couldn’t. Those cops that work night in and night out didn’t really know what was going on? That explains why Cicinelli was hitting a lifeless body becasause Kelly never was resisting so when he passed out they never knew the better until he was lifeless.This beating was no doubt staged.But proving this in acourt of law may be difficult. That may explain the charges although I cannot believe that Cicinelli is walking away from this with practically nothing and Ramos will be given favor as he was acting in a way that was consistent with most of the other officers not charged. Boy was this a set up.
DA’s own report said Wolfe hit him with a nightstick which FORCED him to run for HIS LIFE
levelthefield :
Hey Sunshine,
In your profound statement, “In fact this question is on one of the LD’s”use of force” exam.
What is the definition of “LD” ????????????????
Have you taken the exam in the past???
Are you such a coward that you do not expect those men .. ALL SIX to
USE THEIR GOD DAMNED HANDCUFFS
fuck you and all your ilk
ARREST and authorized to use deadly force doesn’t mean murder for fun.. WHERE WERE THE HANDCUFFS?????????????
The video of Ms. Stevens reminds me of one thing that we faced in the original recall, back in 1993-94: many people, for some reason, think that recall is some type of serious punishment that must be reserved for misconduct. Professor Vince Buck and Dick Ackerman (who then lived 1 1/2 blocks from me) pushed that.
During the first debate, Bruce Whitaker read extensively from Progressive literature that I had found from the period of 1907 to 1914. Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson both made it clear that it could and should be used for any reason why voters might be dissatisfied.
Back then, Dick Ackerman advised the council majority to just ignore the recall movement, and that it would die out on its own. [This, from what Jan Flory told Thom Babcock at lunch, after she was elected.]
Now, as then, the targets of recall arrogantly ignore the forces of reform. One of them, Councilmember McKinley, resorts to a little bit of name-calling; see the post on this website of a day or two ago. What they do not do is to try to have any sort of dialogue with their opponents and detractors.
Unfortunately, the FPOA and officers of the FPD have acted the same way. There has been silence, or name-calling, but there has not been any attempt to openly engage their opponents.
I believe that all of these people do so because they have been advised not to do so, by advisors and “handlers” who are politically arrogant. But I believe that they should use their own judgment, and try to make meaningful responses to some of the criticisms which are hurled at them.
I have previously encouraged Detective Lira and Congressman Royce to come onto this website and contribute. I would encourage Spokesman Goodrich especially to defend himself against the accusations of putting out misinformation; just identify the person who gave you particular information that you then provided to the public. As for Councilmembers Jones and Bankhead, they could at least start to find out the specifics of what people think they ought to have done to prevent some of the embarrassing occurrences in the FPD. [Councilmember McKinley is in a different situation, because he himself was running the police department until recently.] And perhaps a dialogue about the mechanics of keeping the unkempt homeless from dissuading the public’s use of the trains.
For a contrast of styles, look at President Obama, who is a Democrat. After the mid-term change of partisan control of Congress (something that has happened to many US presidents, including President Truman!), he went and met with just the Republicans in a meeting. He began to formally consult with certain Republican congressional leaders.
I mention this, because some people think it would be ridiculous to go talk in a forum that is full of people who want to recall you or who are angry at you. But isn’t every Republican congressional congress trying to get a Republican elected as president, at the next session? Yet Obama goes and talks to them.
Politicians and public officials tend to be arrogant, but the ones who will survive “keep their friends close, and their enemies closer”. And, in a place like Fullerton, it is essential to not show disrespect for your constituents at a meeting, even if there is heckling in the audience. WSH
However, the Three Blind Dinosaurs are mute out of inclination and limitation.
Despite being told how wonderful they are by their handlers and spouses, the three know their limitations: they are fundamentally ignorant of city business and almost completely inarticulate. Jones and Bankhead evince signs of dementia.
McKinley has nothing to say, most likely because he has a fundamental conflict of interest on so much of the FPD malfeasance. Consider: the results of his mismanagement of the FPD are now wending their way to settlement – decided (in part, or whole- depending on whether one supposes he is actually the shot caller in Fullerton) by McKinley himself, the principle architect of the disaster.
The most ironic thing about this troublesome triumvirate is the arrogance that accompanies their incompetence, a strange combination, but unfortunately all too common in political circles.
This is what has been so frustrating to Ron Thomas. He’s had one-on-one talks with Chief Sellers, Tony Rackjackass and finally Mayor Dick Jones; however, Ron was the only one talking. They just stared at him. The Sound of Silence is guilt, in this case.
@ # 89 that was the low life maggott officer maggott racist Hampton who likes to slap cell cameras out of citizens hands so he will not be recorded abusing his power himself.He is a real piece of shit real tuff guy with his other bottom feeder corupt cops.kellys blood will be on his flesh and shirt for eternity there is a place in hell for all 6 of these murderers the lord willing they can’t buy there way from eternal justace
Wrong Guy :
This is what has been so frustrating to Ron Thomas. He’s had one-on-one talks with Chief Sellers, Tony Rackjackass and finally Mayor Dick Jones; however, Ron was the only one talking. They just stared at him. The Sound of Silence is guilt, in this case.
The public outcry is what brought the Kelly execution to light. The DA tried to squash this as ordered by his masters. The reality is that this is not over. The DAs bosses are in a frenzy and desperately calling in favors. Vigilance and perseverance is needed over the long haul. They will delay and drag out the legal process waiting for the Kelly movement to fade away. The police union has the money and the connections make this go away.
Anonymous :
Ask the DA where the handcuffs were
no less 50% of the murderers didn’t even use their DARs
DA is a complicit along with Sellers and anyone who let those cowards keep their badges for 3 weeks after murdering a US CITIZEN
FBI.. are you listening.. US CITIZEN murdered by California Police
chief sellers has screwed with his phony disability. The $4000 a week on disability approved by city officials and a compo doctor should be investigated.
Anonymous :
Ask the DA where the handcuffs were
no less 50% of the murderers didn’t even use their DARs
DA is a complicit along with Sellers and anyone who let those cowards keep their badges for 3 weeks after murdering a US CITIZEN
FBI.. are you listening.. US CITIZEN murdered by California Police
chief sellers has screwed with his phony disability. The $4000 a week on disability approved by city officials and a compo doctor should be investigated.
times 52 =
how many meals for homeless people
how many new books or improved libraries and community centers for young people
1. Hand cuffs
2. Belts with buckles
3. Numchaku
4. Sharpened pencils & ball point pens
5. Saps/ billy clubs
The point being, in this case only the billy club was used on the victim. Hand cuffs used in the same manner would have yielded an exceptional amount of visible injuries. Kelly Thomas died from latent internal injuries administered by FPD cops.
Regardless, that it took 5 days for the victim to be pronounced dead, it is MURDER with intent.
Intent may be conjectural, but these perpetrators (FPD cops) escalated a ruse to a MURDER.
Bertram Byers: The Cold War’s over, John. But with no clear enemy to stockpile it against, the arms markets flat. But bring down a fully loaded 727 into the middle of New York City, and you’ll find a dozen tin-pot dictators all over the world just clamoring to take responsibility, and begging to be smart-bombed.
Wrong Guy :
It is puzzling to me that Cicinelli who was seen doing most of the violent beating is charged less than Ramos. This Cicinelli seems to have some ‘soft-heart’ attention from the higher-ups, including the DA, since he survived a facial shoot-out with LAPD years ago.
25k bail…. so sad… animal cruelty is a higher bail than this..
and then there are those who think the DA is doing all he can
yet Wolfe hit Thomas with his nightstick and punched him in the face.. NO CHARGES
I have now begun to fear ALL COPS..
BUT.. just like a scared animal.. I will never surrender… John Rambo needs to come to Fullerton
Hey Admin- Tony or Chris. Your fellow blogger SNOW HUME wrote this (I am copying and pasting it below). I was wondering what would it take for this to be brought up and exposed. Snow Hume seems to be a great asset in helping to understand law procedure and practice. He/She seems to have a wealth of knowledge in bringing to light a more comprehensive understanding to the sometimes confusing prosecuting procedures.
SNOW HUME wrote- ” My thanks for those who sent me this text:
“Ramos is accused of tackling Thomas to the ground. Once Thomas was on the ground, Ramos is accused of punching him
several times in the left ribs, using his hands to hold Thomas’ neck, and partially laying on Thomas to use his own body
weight to pin the victim to the ground. He is accused of using his body weight to minimize Thomas’ movement as other
officers arrived. … Officer Wolfe …
He continued to approach Thomas as the victim backed away. Officer Wolfe struck Thomas in the left leg with his baton. Thomas then turned and ran in front of one of the parked patrol
vehicles. As Ramos chased directly after him, Officer Wolfe ran the opposite direction around the back of the patrol vehicle and met Thomas and Ramos on the other side. A physical altercation began on the other side of the vehicle.
Officer Wolfe tackled Thomas to the ground with Ramos, kneed and punched Thomas, and used his body weight to minimize Thomas’ movement as other officers arrived.”
In a few other posts, I had misunderstood that the baton’s blow was used by Officer Wolfe to get Kelly Thomas to the ground. In fact, it only put Kelly Thomas to flight. And this is the part which is on the video. Further, Kelly Thomas had used no force in the presence of the officers; had not resisted arrest; and fled after excessive force and paid was used against him.
As a a matter of law applied to these alleged (and apparently videotaped) facts, Officer Wolfe commenced a pursuit of a person who had lawfully fled, to avoid Officer Wolfe’s unlawful arrest tactics. As a matter of law, this is false arrest, and commenced by Officer Wolfe. When Officer Ramos chases after Kelly Thomas, he is merely aiding and abetting the crime which Officer Wolfe commenced.
Because Officer Wolfe commenced a false arrest, under California’s mechanistic “felony murder” rules, the resulting death of Kelly Thomas was a murder under the “felony murder” rule. Officer Wolfe is guilty of murder under the “felony murder” rule, if he really struck Kelly Thomas with a baton and set him into justifiable flight. Anyone who takes First Semester Criminal Law in law school would know that, and probably fail the exam if he or she did not derive the conclusion which I just presented.
It is therefore clear that the DA’s office is knowingly and willfully failing to prosecute a “felony murder” case of which it is aware. Because Tony Rackauckas had the Press Release in his hands at the Press Conference and knows its contents, he knows everything that I have just set forth above. I can no longer fail to blame him personally; I accuse him of being a corrupt politician, who is willingly and knowingly derelict in his duties, and is committing the crime of official dereliction of duties, in violation of Government Code section 1222. I publicly accuse Tony Rackauckas of being a misdemeanant under Government Code section 1222.
NOW I understand the recent post, below, which mentions the silence of Tony Rackauckas when he was meeting with Ron Thomas. Tony Rackauckas has willfully, knowingly, and corruptly failed to prosecute a “felony murder” crime, whose factual elements are established to his satisfaction … as evidenced by a Press Release whose contents are known to him.
Signal. Signal. Code. There is enough presented above, for an affected member of the Fullerton public to obtain a Writ of Mandate. This is the extremely rare condition where a public prosecutor’s public admission of his own “fact-finding” makes out his duty to prosecute, as a matter of law applied to undisputed facts.
Thank you to everyone in FFFF who has helped me to specifically identify and expose this official crime by Tony Rackauckas. It is a true “tragedy”, in the Classical literary sense, because Tony Rackauckas did so many wonderful, honorable things when he was first elected back in 1990s.
WSH
Fullerton City Officials and its cronies putting up show, buying time, etc.
Filing false affidavits, lies, coverup and report is perjury and is a felony. Why aren’t these cops and its leaders being prosecuted?
We want to see the perp walk, with the 5 yr federal sentence imposed. That doesn’t begin to deal with the suffering that innocent people go through.
The rest has to step down or face recall. Simply Outrageous.
I hear that sentiment alot more nowadays when I’m gathering signatures for the reacll effort…
RECALL NOW!
Do you know anything about what happened when Bankhead got upset with the signature gatherers in front of Ralphs a few weeks ago?
Bankhead and McKinley supporters, no Jones supporters yet, have gone in to a couple of the grocery stores where the recall signature gatherers are stationed in front of the store, and will ask the store manager to remove the signature gatherers because they find the recall effort an affront to theeir political sensibilities. This sometimes may result in a citizens arrest being requested by the store manager to the Fullerton Police department, however to the best of my knowledge, the Orange County’s District Attorneys office has thus far chosen not to pursuit criminal or misdemeanor charges against those citizens gathering signatures on behalf of the recall of Mayor Dick Jones and Councilmans Pat McKinley and Don Bankhead.
This is essentially correct. There have been 3 store manager initiated citizen’s arrests and all that means is that a Fullerton Cop (twice Dan Hughes) assists a private citizen in making the arrest. They are legally compelled to assist any citizen who wishes to arrest any other citizen for any violation. The arrest in these cases is simply a report which is taken, turned into the DA and the DA decides whether they are going to pursue it. In all cases, the “arrested” person has remained at the store collecting signatures. The DA rejected the first two within 24 hours each. I have not heard back about the 3rd, but the circumstances were identical. All of these were Albertsons. I can tell you that the Albertson’s manager on Yorba Linda and Placentia (which is Fullerton believe it or not) is a very cool guy and is going through the paces that his corporate is directing him to go through. All of these instances have been highly cooperative and involved no detention, handcuffs or anything of the like. Just the cooperative exchange of paperwork.
In my firm opinion, Albertson’s corporate is radically misinterpreting the case law. They characterize case-law which is about keeping obvious foot traffic pathways clear as allowing them to demand the removal of petition-gatherers. I don’t blame them for feeling that way. It’s just not what the case law says. Political free-speech still seems to hold some significant power in this country where freedoms seem to be deteriorating daily. Kudos to how the Fullerton PD has handled these few anecdotal cases.
So…can your clarify if its just Albertsons acting alone, or if private, anti-recall people are actually initiating the action? If the latter, no surprise…just more dirty pool, reactionary antics.
Thank you both for clarifying. I was contemplating touching on this topic at the City Council meeting but didn’t want to misrepresent what occurred.
If the signature gatherers were not so pushy, I’m sure Albertson’s corporate would not have gotten involved.
As “Albertson’s Corporate” is not typically standing around in front of stores, it is equally likely that it’s the complainers who are pushy (Hi Larry!) and the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
If Bankhead, Jones and McKinley recalled then there cronies that keep and have kept them in positions of power and influence will fall with them. then maybe Fullerton will have the opportunity to restore its representative government
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
their
These guys are going nowhere. Soon a curfew in Fullerton and the city council will go on holiday break. God help us all.
The people gathering signatures for the recall effort aren’t going anywhere until these three councilman’s petitions have been successfully submitted to the Orange County Registrar of Voters. This ain’t over till we say it’s over.
there will be no curfews as that would lose money for the wild west waterin’ holes. that cuts down on DUI money for the blue whores
You may hope they don’t go anywhere. I’ll bet you were confident that DA Rackaucus wouldn’t file charges on the FPD 6, didn’t you?
We (justice seekers) were afraid of the same thing, however, there is the FBI who are being quiet at the moment. Just think of that as the “Calm Before the Storm” for the Fullerton Police Department and the current city council.
The Kelly Thomas murder was a human rights atrocity!
I suspect you will be seeing this soon!
http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID7515/images/fbi_logo.gif
The tribe is getting very restless. Those who were formerly on the fence are now siding with the their fellow tribe members. The truth is slowly but surely seeping out. And the truth is the most detested enemy of those who are sworn to protect the status quo. Places to hide are becoming far and few inbetween. Eventually 95% will agree that the emperor is, in fact, bare assed naked and won’t be afraid to say it. Keep the faith.
ewwww… that image of F. “Dick” Jones (the emperor) is just disgusting!
Wait until John and Ken direct their 1 million plus listeners to the cause on Wednesday!!!!! Toxic cleansing!!!!!!
It is supposed to rain on Wednesday. I hope there is an alternate date set if it does!
Are you reading the Farmer’s Almanac or something? All of the weather reports on the web say partly cloudy.
Two things are inevitable: rain this Wednesday, and an agency who is about to get involved in the Kelly Thomas murder whose name contains two consonants and one vowel.
The only reason I mention rain is because I don’t know if KFI can set up broadcast equipment in wet conditions.
If it rains, you wont melt-people will still show- its john and ken
John and Ken just announced that they will do the show… WEATHER PERMITTING!!
there is a brand new invention called umbrella
…and another one called a tent. (-:
It’s so funny how these 3 fucktards just don’t understand that only their cronies and fucked up families are the only ones behind them…the whole world hates these 3 punkass geriatric pukes.
It’s repulsive to hear how disconnected law enforcement, and in this case, the city council are from regular citizens. How they believe their way of insanity “ruling” is the only way. How do you justify what happened? I guess when you’re part of a Bad Boy Club, you don’t go against it.
“TOXIC CLEANSING ”
That’s precisely what the city of Fullerton officials need. Nice Fullerorange.
Is this your first post on this blog ‘Nor~Cal’? It’s great to see the support, on this site alone, from folks far away from Fullerton. Thanks for your support.
This is from an article about the Ramos bail out, quoting his attorney, Barnett:
Barnett disputed the chain of events and said Rackauckas took Ramos’ quote out of context.
“There is the statement, `You see these fists? They’re going to F you up,’ but the very next thing that’s said is, `…if you don’t do what you’re instructed to do,'” Barnett said. “This wasn’t a threat to simply beat someone; this was an instruction to comply with orders, lawful orders.”
Threatening to “F you up” is not a lawful order. It it’s called a terroristic threat where I live and it is illegal.
Haha, yeah. I love that this is something they thought cleared up “misconceptions,” Any time someone uses foul language or threats of physical harm, the “lawful” parts of what they say in the same breath are pretty much immediately discredited.
but the tape also shows Ramos and his “Simon says” orders that a normal person couldnt understand let alone some who had a mental diorder-oh yeah, and there’s Kelly’s beaten corpse too.
Yeah, sitting on a curb a few inches higher than the street with your legs stretched out and your hands on your knees just sounds like a really awkward position.
Furthermore, the dramatic donning of the latex gloves was also an implied threat of more than just “a lawful order.” It implies “I’m going to F you up enough to need to wear gloves so my hands don’t get bloody.” So it’s not a coincidence that Kelly Thomas’ blood was everywhere by the time the brutal and fatal beating was over.
Get the signatures then get backing to get rid of the three fools on city council. I call them 3 fools, but the ex police chief is merely using his council role to cover up 15 years of poor hiring practices and giving in to the police union on every issue. So time to get rid of the TOXIC COUNCILMEN.
That, my friend, is an excellent point.
Wolfe HIT HIM with his nightstick BEFORE HE STARTED TO RUN FOR HIS LIFE
The nightstick forced Kelly Thomas to defend his liberties
WAS KELLY THOMAS EVER READ HIS MIRANDA RIGHTS?
Dear MeYou,
I thought, from reading the DA’s Press Release, that Officer Wolfe struck Kelly Thomas on the thigh, and that this blow crippled him to fall to his knees. After that, he kicked his knee into the abdomen of Kelly Thomas.
Can you give me the reference to your source for your statement? If the blow did not cripple Kelly, but rather only set him to flee, then that is extremely important. It would prove conclusively that Officer Wolfe is more guilty than Officer Ramos. Why? Because he knew that the flight was not caused by “guilty behavior”, but out of reasonable fear of additional, unnecessary pain.
WSH
wait.. does the written release say something different from the video of t-racks announcement?? vid is here.. http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/tag/kelly-thomas-beating/ scroll down to sept 21st… now i’m going to look for the written release you speak of..
well, the written release and the video seem to be different in the timeline and who did what and when… why is that??
My thanks for those who sent me this text:
“Ramos is accused of tackling Thomas to the ground. Once Thomas was on the ground, Ramos is accused of punching him
several times in the left ribs, using his hands to hold Thomas’ neck, and partially laying on Thomas to use his own body
weight to pin the victim to the ground. He is accused of using his body weight to minimize Thomas’ movement as other
officers arrived. … Officer Wolfe …
He continued to approach Thomas as the victim backed away. Officer Wolfe struck Thomas in the left leg with his baton. Thomas then turned and ran in front of one of the parked patrol
vehicles. As Ramos chased directly after him, Officer Wolfe ran the opposite direction around the back of the patrol vehicle and met Thomas and Ramos on the other side. A physical altercation began on the other side of the vehicle.
Officer Wolfe tackled Thomas to the ground with Ramos, kneed and punched Thomas, and used his body weight to minimize Thomas’ movement as other officers arrived.”
In a few other posts, I had misunderstood that the baton’s blow was used by Officer Wolfe to get Kelly Thomas to the ground. In fact, it only put Kelly Thomas to flight. And this is the part which is on the video. Further, Kelly Thomas had used no force in the presence of the officers; had not resisted arrest; and fled after excessive force and paid was used against him.
As a a matter of law applied to these alleged (and apparently videotaped) facts, Officer Wolfe commenced a pursuit of a person who had lawfully fled, to avoid Officer Wolfe’s unlawful arrest tactics. As a matter of law, this is false arrest, and commenced by Officer Wolfe. When Officer Ramos chases after Kelly Thomas, he is merely aiding and abetting the crime which Officer Wolfe commenced.
Because Officer Wolfe commenced a false arrest, under California’s mechanistic “felony murder” rules, the resulting death of Kelly Thomas was a murder under the “felony murder” rule. Officer Wolfe is guilty of murder under the “felony murder” rule, if he really struck Kelly Thomas with a baton and set him into justifiable flight. Anyone who takes First Semester Criminal Law in law school would know that, and probably fail the exam if he or she did not derive the conclusion which I just presented.
It is therefore clear that the DA’s office is knowingly and willfully failing to prosecute a “felony murder” case of which it is aware. Because Tony Rackauckas had the Press Release in his hands at the Press Conference and knows its contents, he knows everything that I have just set forth above. I can no longer fail to blame him personally; I accuse him of being a corrupt politician, who is willingly and knowingly derelict in his duties, and is committing the crime of official dereliction of duties, in violation of Government Code section 1222. I publicly accuse Tony Rackauckas of being a misdemeanant under Government Code section 1222.
NOW I understand the recent post, below, which mentions the silence of Tony Rackauckas when he was meeting with Ron Thomas. Tony Rackauckas has willfully, knowingly, and corruptly failed to prosecute a “felony murder” crime, whose factual elements are established to his satisfaction … as evidenced by a Press Release whose contents are known to him.
Signal. Signal. Code. There is enough presented above, for an affected member of the Fullerton public to obtain a Writ of Mandate. This is the extremely rare condition where a public prosecutor’s public admission of his own “fact-finding” makes out his duty to prosecute, as a matter of law applied to undisputed facts.
Thank you to everyone in FFFF who has helped me to specifically identify and expose this official crime by Tony Rackauckas. It is a true “tragedy”, in the Classical literary sense, because Tony Rackauckas did so many wonderful, honorable things when he was first elected back in 1990s.
WSH
if you want signatures show them how much money does people have stolen from their future
get the money on paper show them
rincon thomas martinez … VETH MAM
you all know how much money they stolen show these people who won’t sign the recall show them
Barnett is going to be laughed out of the courtroom.
Hopefully, but by all accounts he is good at his job. But if there ever were a difficult case to win, I’m sure this would be it. Although, all it takes is one juror who sees things differently to throw the case.
This.
Yes.
Agreed. Why couldn’t Ramos just say something like, “hey Kelly, I know you’re not a thief. Someone called and said a homeless person was peeping in cars. Yes, there are several other homeless people around, but i chose to detain you. I can only detain you briefly if I feel there is probable cause that you did it. I know you don’t have any weapons. Could you just sit over on curb a minute while we check your backpack for any obvious indications you were involved. This will only take a couple minutes Kelly. Then we’ll move on.”
Why did they have to try and humiliate Kelly in his environment with all those goofy commands like touch your nose to your knee or whatever.
A very wise CHP officer told me one time, “you create your own freight”, and boy has the Fullerton Police Department created a truck load of trouble for themselves by being so confrontational and heavy-handed with people.
Because Ramos intended to seriously hurt then put Kelly away for awhile for resisting arrest. This would have discouraged Kelly from ever stepping foot in Fullerton.
I think during the scuffle they thought: “Fuck it lets just kill him. He’s a bum no one is gonna care”.
They know a lot of homeless people are from out of state and long forgotten by their families.
Its not the first time they’re done this. I wouldn’t be surprised if “Homeless Liason”/Swat Team Member Corporal DeCaprio hasnt killed a few homeless people during his tenure with FPD.
Here’s something else. In the academy they teach you that if your partner starts flying off the handle you are to step in and take control of the situation. In fact this question is on one of the LD’s “use of force” exam. What I don’t understand is why the other 4 are not being accountable for their actions!
Sunshine,
I have said the same thing. In this case, not one officer stopped the madness. Instead, they contributed to it.
Hey sunshine and copcar have you seen the video? Were you there??? Didn’t think so! How can you ASSume something you know nothing about! Copcar you are an idiot you act like you know everything on this blog! Like you are the voice of reason! Get over yourself! How can you stop something if you weren’t there to see it!
Wow! oh it must be you then, my bad- you are the wise Budda that doesnt ASSume things, I wiil forever be in your debt
WTF? “How can you stop something if you weren’t there to see it!”
There were 6 coppers there who saw their blue’s brothers beating the life out of that poor man -Even DA said that, its all on tape
you get over yourself and read a book
Does anybody have a picture of wolfe?
Hey, 9c1copcar, you ARE a voice of reason and a champion for justice. So thanks!
The thing that gave Ramos a stiffer sentence than the others was that he knew the context of the sitution .When the others showed up they supposedly didn’t know that he was provoked and was just trying to save his life. Will this argument of Tony R. handywork stand up in court.It is known by the eyewitnesses that he was never resisting because he couldn’t. Those cops that work night in and night out didn’t really know what was going on? That explains why Cicinelli was hitting a lifeless body becasause Kelly never was resisting so when he passed out they never knew the better until he was lifeless.This beating was no doubt staged.But proving this in acourt of law may be difficult. That may explain the charges although I cannot believe that Cicinelli is walking away from this with practically nothing and Ramos will be given favor as he was acting in a way that was consistent with most of the other officers not charged. Boy was this a set up.
That’s still bullshit. Why should Kelly have complied with anything? He wasn’t doing anything wrong. Fuck Ramos.
Hope he rots in prison.where hes going
Hey Sunshine,
In your profound statement, “In fact this question is on one of the LD’s”use of force” exam.
What is the definition of “LD” ????????????????
Have you taken the exam in the past???
Im no copper or anything, but logic tells me LD stands for Law Dept, but I could be wrong
Hey Merijoe, actually LD stands for Learning Domain. They are the learning topics that are studied and tested while in the academy.
Much that is law enforcement is learned through these domains. Topics such as laws, procedures, protocol, drugs, etc. You must pass so many tests on these learning domains in order to pass the academy.
oh, thanks-I said I wasnt a copper 🙂 appreciate the correction- Im getting all soets of police education
Glad I could help ya out a little bit.
LD is learning domain!
Yes I have taken it and passed.
Wow!, you really suck at trolling so far.
Either bring your A-game or stop posting.
Thank you,merijoe
blessusall on October 2, 2011
Hey, 9c1copcar, you ARE a voice of reason and a champion for justice. So thanks!
**……..Blushing……..Thank you.
Thank you very much, ThinBlueNonsense.
I appreciate the explanation of LD and I do possess a respectable level of communication skills.
Wow! on October 2, 2011
Hey sunshine and copcar have you seen the video? Were you there??? Didn’t think so! How can you ASSume something you know nothing about! Copcar you are an idiot you act like you know everything on this blog! Like you are the voice of reason! Get over yourself! How can you stop something if you weren’t there to see it!
*** Wow,
I do not know everything, nor do I act like I do. All I do here is state facts, and what is lawful. I also throw in a truckload of decency, honesty, and compassion, because that seems to be sadly lacking with some LEO’s of today; it most certainly was in the 6 while they were killing Kelly Thomas.
I also know you are not happy with someone daring to speak other than the company line here. I had to when I was on, however, I still did not play their games regarding violence and the such.
Sounds like you would be much happier in the BCC website, however, I do welcome you to stay. You help add balance.
9c1;
Missed you and Fedup at the protest on Saturday. Hope Miss Fedup feels better. Notre Dame won so that should help……….
My brother, nephew and I were sitting further back on the City Hall grass and we noticed a few looking at us with a jaded eye. After a while, another protester that we know came up to us and told us that a few folks thought we were undercover police gathering intel. I thought that was kind of ironic after all I have related to you has happened to us over the years. But hey, I guess we all gotta be something, or apparently something.
In regards to the posts from others who felt the other officers should have stepped in to stop the carnage, I agree. Another family member of mine also agrees. He is a retired United States Marine who recently returned from one of him numerous tours in Iraq. He is a battle hardened Marine who is tough but fair. He was a high ranking officer and told me that even in battle conditions he encountered in Iraq, the behavior exhibited by these officers would NOT have been tolerated. Let me re-iterate, NOT tolerated even in battle conditions and he has faced many life and death situations over the years as a proud Marine serving his country in foreign lands with enemy combatants looking to terminate his and his Marine’s lives.
He is disgusted by what he has seen in Fullerton as it relates to the police and I can tell you he is one of the most decent men I know. He is and always will be a hero to me.
See ya soon 9c1
“NOT tolerated even in battle conditions”
This kind of thing says it all to me. Why do our police feel that their personal security is so important that it allows them to justify commiting crimes that would be rare to see even in combat situations during wars?!
It is puzzling to me that Cicinelli who was seen doing most of the violent beating is charged less than Ramos. This Cicinelli seems to have some ‘soft-heart’ attention from the higher-ups, including the DA, since he survived a facial shoot-out with LAPD years ago.
Again meriho you are an idiot! And copcar you absolutely do not just speak the truth or fact! If all 6 were watching the “beating” as you all say then all 6 would be charged! Again you fffer’s have no clue what you are talking about especially meriho! She is the worst poster on this blog!
So the other officers were just standing around innocently baking cupcakes?
no, eating donuts
Lol
Wow! you are a fruitfly that wont go away -the DA the DA the DA the DA madw it clear that the others helped -Logic would tell you that the time #2-6 rolled in and saw Kelly’s condition- lifeless unmoving, corned beef face -then someone should have said “enough” oh yeah and that goes for the knucklehead who watched the beating in real time on the pole video.. and just because they werent charged with anything doesnt mean they didnt do anything-ffffer
all of them should be charged with murder and I didnt have to BE there to see it-
I’ve never “seen” the inside of a jail, but I wouldnt want to go to one-derrrrr
No, that distinction belongs to you.
COWARD… 150lb man and it took six worthless punk cowards like you to PUT HANDCUFFS ON HIM
punk is all you are.. tell us why they had to murder him.. 150lb man vs 6 fat overfed and overpaid miscreants.. and THEY MURDERED HIM!
sick punk is all you are..
Welcome to the world of “Emotions & Reasoning”.
The Prosecuting Attorney will present the case to the jury based on the facts of evidence with a logical and reasonable summation.
The Defense Attorney will refute the facts of evidence and attempt to convince the jury with an explanation based on the emotional conditions of the defendant at the time of the incident.
Unfortunately,in this case the victim is deceased and can not appear before the jury.
Is second degree murder considered “warm blooded” murder?
ALL MURDERS ARE COLD
Murders are either emotional or for/about MONEY.
Kelly Thomas may have been perceived as an uncontrollable threat to some night shift FPD cops.
Down Town Fullerton (DTF) is a two sided coin, day and night.
The homeless don’t get much peaceful sleep!!
SIX PUNKS LIKE YOU CANT PUT HANDCUFFS ON A SMALL MALNOURISHED HOMELESS MAN…
^^^^^^^^^TRUE?
MY BAD.. I was quoting Wow! ^^
THE MORON,
FEDUP and I will try to make it out there this Wednesday. I missed the camraderie out at the protests Saturday. It really brings people together as one for a good cause.
DA’s own report said Wolfe hit him with a nightstick which FORCED him to run for HIS LIFE
WHERE WERE THE FUCKING HANDCUFFS?.. PUSSIES
WOW,
Would you think of joining us at the protests? I would love to discuss our differences with you.
Are you such a coward that you do not expect those men .. ALL SIX to
USE THEIR GOD DAMNED HANDCUFFS
fuck you and all your ilk
ARREST and authorized to use deadly force doesn’t mean murder for fun.. WHERE WERE THE HANDCUFFS?????????????
No miranda rights..
no handcuffs
no constitutional rights
MURDERED
The video of Ms. Stevens reminds me of one thing that we faced in the original recall, back in 1993-94: many people, for some reason, think that recall is some type of serious punishment that must be reserved for misconduct. Professor Vince Buck and Dick Ackerman (who then lived 1 1/2 blocks from me) pushed that.
During the first debate, Bruce Whitaker read extensively from Progressive literature that I had found from the period of 1907 to 1914. Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson both made it clear that it could and should be used for any reason why voters might be dissatisfied.
Back then, Dick Ackerman advised the council majority to just ignore the recall movement, and that it would die out on its own. [This, from what Jan Flory told Thom Babcock at lunch, after she was elected.]
Now, as then, the targets of recall arrogantly ignore the forces of reform. One of them, Councilmember McKinley, resorts to a little bit of name-calling; see the post on this website of a day or two ago. What they do not do is to try to have any sort of dialogue with their opponents and detractors.
Unfortunately, the FPOA and officers of the FPD have acted the same way. There has been silence, or name-calling, but there has not been any attempt to openly engage their opponents.
I believe that all of these people do so because they have been advised not to do so, by advisors and “handlers” who are politically arrogant. But I believe that they should use their own judgment, and try to make meaningful responses to some of the criticisms which are hurled at them.
I have previously encouraged Detective Lira and Congressman Royce to come onto this website and contribute. I would encourage Spokesman Goodrich especially to defend himself against the accusations of putting out misinformation; just identify the person who gave you particular information that you then provided to the public. As for Councilmembers Jones and Bankhead, they could at least start to find out the specifics of what people think they ought to have done to prevent some of the embarrassing occurrences in the FPD. [Councilmember McKinley is in a different situation, because he himself was running the police department until recently.] And perhaps a dialogue about the mechanics of keeping the unkempt homeless from dissuading the public’s use of the trains.
For a contrast of styles, look at President Obama, who is a Democrat. After the mid-term change of partisan control of Congress (something that has happened to many US presidents, including President Truman!), he went and met with just the Republicans in a meeting. He began to formally consult with certain Republican congressional leaders.
I mention this, because some people think it would be ridiculous to go talk in a forum that is full of people who want to recall you or who are angry at you. But isn’t every Republican congressional congress trying to get a Republican elected as president, at the next session? Yet Obama goes and talks to them.
Politicians and public officials tend to be arrogant, but the ones who will survive “keep their friends close, and their enemies closer”. And, in a place like Fullerton, it is essential to not show disrespect for your constituents at a meeting, even if there is heckling in the audience. WSH
Snow, your advice is exquisitely sound.
However, the Three Blind Dinosaurs are mute out of inclination and limitation.
Despite being told how wonderful they are by their handlers and spouses, the three know their limitations: they are fundamentally ignorant of city business and almost completely inarticulate. Jones and Bankhead evince signs of dementia.
McKinley has nothing to say, most likely because he has a fundamental conflict of interest on so much of the FPD malfeasance. Consider: the results of his mismanagement of the FPD are now wending their way to settlement – decided (in part, or whole- depending on whether one supposes he is actually the shot caller in Fullerton) by McKinley himself, the principle architect of the disaster.
The most ironic thing about this troublesome triumvirate is the arrogance that accompanies their incompetence, a strange combination, but unfortunately all too common in political circles.
This is what has been so frustrating to Ron Thomas. He’s had one-on-one talks with Chief Sellers, Tony Rackjackass and finally Mayor Dick Jones; however, Ron was the only one talking. They just stared at him. The Sound of Silence is guilt, in this case.
Ask the DA where the handcuffs were
no less 50% of the murderers didn’t even use their DARs
DA is a complicit along with Sellers and anyone who let those cowards keep their badges for 3 weeks after murdering a US CITIZEN
FBI.. are you listening.. US CITIZEN murdered by California Police
the insider did say
“one of the officers tried to put handcuffs on him but other cops KEPT BLUDGEONING HIM and blood was splattering on said officer so he backed away”
all creepy cowards
@ # 89 that was the low life maggott officer maggott racist Hampton who likes to slap cell cameras out of citizens hands so he will not be recorded abusing his power himself.He is a real piece of shit real tuff guy with his other bottom feeder corupt cops.kellys blood will be on his flesh and shirt for eternity there is a place in hell for all 6 of these murderers the lord willing they can’t buy there way from eternal justace
The public outcry is what brought the Kelly execution to light. The DA tried to squash this as ordered by his masters. The reality is that this is not over. The DAs bosses are in a frenzy and desperately calling in favors. Vigilance and perseverance is needed over the long haul. They will delay and drag out the legal process waiting for the Kelly movement to fade away. The police union has the money and the connections make this go away.
I wish I had gone to law school to protect humanity from cowards like the whole fullerton police department and all orange county police and DA
I asked long ago why Police Departments ACROSS AMERICA were not up in arms about what the FPD6 did to Kelly Thomas
I wish they would have just put a bullet in him instead of sadistically torturing and murdering him with their fists and anger
YEA THEY ARE MORE INTRESTED IN UFC TYPE BLOOD SPORTS
I think any officer with an ounce of HUMAN in him .. should have put a bullet in Cincinellis leg or arm etc to stop him from murdering Kelly
but nope.. all are complicit in the murder
and sadly.. USA is so FUCKED UP.. that these scumbags may go free and join BCC
chief sellers has screwed with his phony disability. The $4000 a week on disability approved by city officials and a compo doctor should be investigated.
times 52 =
how many meals for homeless people
how many new books or improved libraries and community centers for young people
I have no faith in the FBI whatsoever
PROOF the FBI is worthless and not even an American entitiy?
Flight School Warned F.B.I. of Suspicions
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/22/national/22PILO.html
USA is no longer for the people by the people
when we lost our souls to reality tv and televangelists and rush limbaugh types.. it all ended
Rush still had listeners after calling the terrorism and murder at Abu-Ghraib
http://mediamatters.org/research/200405050003
I have only ONE HOPE
THE VIDEO of the murder
Video(s)?
Matter of fact— Deadly weapons
1. Hand cuffs
2. Belts with buckles
3. Numchaku
4. Sharpened pencils & ball point pens
5. Saps/ billy clubs
The point being, in this case only the billy club was used on the victim. Hand cuffs used in the same manner would have yielded an exceptional amount of visible injuries. Kelly Thomas died from latent internal injuries administered by FPD cops.
Regardless, that it took 5 days for the victim to be pronounced dead, it is MURDER with intent.
Intent may be conjectural, but these perpetrators (FPD cops) escalated a ruse to a MURDER.
especially for no reason-other than for joyriding
btw.. all the Anonymous recently are from none other than MeYou.. too lazy to type my info
Joyriding is allowed in DTF at night.
BRING MONEY FOR THE TICKET
I know we are supposed to be talking about kelly but check this
The Lone Gunman, Pilot Episode (Air Date: March 4, 2001)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=384CCzUKHtA
Aired March 4th 2001
Bertram Byers: The Cold War’s over, John. But with no clear enemy to stockpile it against, the arms markets flat. But bring down a fully loaded 727 into the middle of New York City, and you’ll find a dozen tin-pot dictators all over the world just clamoring to take responsibility, and begging to be smart-bombed.
The bus video will be inadmissable or disappear.
25k bail…. so sad… animal cruelty is a higher bail than this..
and then there are those who think the DA is doing all he can
yet Wolfe hit Thomas with his nightstick and punched him in the face.. NO CHARGES
I have now begun to fear ALL COPS..
BUT.. just like a scared animal.. I will never surrender… John Rambo needs to come to Fullerton
would be an awesome movie
Hey Admin- Tony or Chris. Your fellow blogger SNOW HUME wrote this (I am copying and pasting it below). I was wondering what would it take for this to be brought up and exposed. Snow Hume seems to be a great asset in helping to understand law procedure and practice. He/She seems to have a wealth of knowledge in bringing to light a more comprehensive understanding to the sometimes confusing prosecuting procedures.
SNOW HUME wrote- ” My thanks for those who sent me this text:
“Ramos is accused of tackling Thomas to the ground. Once Thomas was on the ground, Ramos is accused of punching him
several times in the left ribs, using his hands to hold Thomas’ neck, and partially laying on Thomas to use his own body
weight to pin the victim to the ground. He is accused of using his body weight to minimize Thomas’ movement as other
officers arrived. … Officer Wolfe …
He continued to approach Thomas as the victim backed away. Officer Wolfe struck Thomas in the left leg with his baton. Thomas then turned and ran in front of one of the parked patrol
vehicles. As Ramos chased directly after him, Officer Wolfe ran the opposite direction around the back of the patrol vehicle and met Thomas and Ramos on the other side. A physical altercation began on the other side of the vehicle.
Officer Wolfe tackled Thomas to the ground with Ramos, kneed and punched Thomas, and used his body weight to minimize Thomas’ movement as other officers arrived.”
In a few other posts, I had misunderstood that the baton’s blow was used by Officer Wolfe to get Kelly Thomas to the ground. In fact, it only put Kelly Thomas to flight. And this is the part which is on the video. Further, Kelly Thomas had used no force in the presence of the officers; had not resisted arrest; and fled after excessive force and paid was used against him.
As a a matter of law applied to these alleged (and apparently videotaped) facts, Officer Wolfe commenced a pursuit of a person who had lawfully fled, to avoid Officer Wolfe’s unlawful arrest tactics. As a matter of law, this is false arrest, and commenced by Officer Wolfe. When Officer Ramos chases after Kelly Thomas, he is merely aiding and abetting the crime which Officer Wolfe commenced.
Because Officer Wolfe commenced a false arrest, under California’s mechanistic “felony murder” rules, the resulting death of Kelly Thomas was a murder under the “felony murder” rule. Officer Wolfe is guilty of murder under the “felony murder” rule, if he really struck Kelly Thomas with a baton and set him into justifiable flight. Anyone who takes First Semester Criminal Law in law school would know that, and probably fail the exam if he or she did not derive the conclusion which I just presented.
It is therefore clear that the DA’s office is knowingly and willfully failing to prosecute a “felony murder” case of which it is aware. Because Tony Rackauckas had the Press Release in his hands at the Press Conference and knows its contents, he knows everything that I have just set forth above. I can no longer fail to blame him personally; I accuse him of being a corrupt politician, who is willingly and knowingly derelict in his duties, and is committing the crime of official dereliction of duties, in violation of Government Code section 1222. I publicly accuse Tony Rackauckas of being a misdemeanant under Government Code section 1222.
NOW I understand the recent post, below, which mentions the silence of Tony Rackauckas when he was meeting with Ron Thomas. Tony Rackauckas has willfully, knowingly, and corruptly failed to prosecute a “felony murder” crime, whose factual elements are established to his satisfaction … as evidenced by a Press Release whose contents are known to him.
Signal. Signal. Code. There is enough presented above, for an affected member of the Fullerton public to obtain a Writ of Mandate. This is the extremely rare condition where a public prosecutor’s public admission of his own “fact-finding” makes out his duty to prosecute, as a matter of law applied to undisputed facts.
Thank you to everyone in FFFF who has helped me to specifically identify and expose this official crime by Tony Rackauckas. It is a true “tragedy”, in the Classical literary sense, because Tony Rackauckas did so many wonderful, honorable things when he was first elected back in 1990s.
WSH
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/CCP/3/3/1
I am not sure if this is the code(s) but it might be helpful
fullerton residents need to bring every lawsuit imaginable against the KILLER COPS and their enablers
Sellers
Jones
McKinley
Tony Rack
ALL WHO VIEWED the video are accomplices to cover up a murder.. and as said.. are DERELICT in their DUTIES TO PROTECT YOU!!!
Sadly.. The FBI sucks ass in USA.. a racist coward at the helm
Fullerton City Officials and its cronies putting up show, buying time, etc.
Filing false affidavits, lies, coverup and report is perjury and is a felony. Why aren’t these cops and its leaders being prosecuted?
We want to see the perp walk, with the 5 yr federal sentence imposed. That doesn’t begin to deal with the suffering that innocent people go through.
The rest has to step down or face recall. Simply Outrageous.