Tonight: Citizen Committee Seeks Civilian Oversight of Fullerton Police Department
Citizen Committee Seeks Civilian Oversight of Fullerton Police Department in the Wake of Beating Death of Kelly Thomas, Reports of Abuse by Officers, Recent and Impending Lawsuits against FPD.
by Alex Stoffer
The Police Oversight Proposal Committee (POPC) will host a public presentation on methods of police oversight (tonight) Wednesday, July 11, 2012 from 6:30 to 8:00 pm at the Fullerton Public Library Conference Center. The public are invited to attend. There is no admission charge.
Citizen Oversight committees are composed of community members who review complaints, look into claims of misconduct and harassment, and investigate instances of excessive force.
I had Jarret Lovell as a professor at Cal State Fullerton and he is truly a stand up human being. Very intelligent, very involved with human/civil rights, and very keen on doing the right thing. He will be outspoken, he will ask questions, he will get answers. Kudos Professor Lovell for stepping up in this position, since it is completely apparent that some sort of oversight committee is needed since the police department has shown the inability to oversee their own.
Jarrett Lovell, very liberal and will side with the mob.
You’re an idiot. If by liberal you mean a human who stands up for human liberties against those who want to violate them…then I guess so. This whole totalitarianism way of policing is out of hand. If you want to complain because people want to whistle blow those who violate the same laws they are sworn to protect then you have serious issues.
I can think of nothing more liberal than the greedy piggies who step up to their union trough and inhale. Ironically enough, most will listen to Limbaugh, wave a flag and talk about how great America used to be.
Don’t let them fool you like the County fooled the people when they appointed some insider lawyer with the Office of Independent Review for $400,000 a year as a lapdog – er….I mean watchdog. That was their answer after John Chamberlain was battered to death in the OC jail by enforcers who worked for the deputies. The OIR value to the citizens has been a big goose egg. Don’t let the power that be in Fullerton do the same thing to you.
I thought the Office of Independent Review is just a law firm with an official sounding name.
When was the last time a successful law firm openly derided their clients?
Show me one major OCSD case that the OIR has examined since it’s inception 3 years ago. There have been multiple lawsuits against OCSD that cost the county taxpayers in excess of $500,000 since 2009. No reports of any of the violators who cost the county these large sums of money were fired. Show me ONE of these cases that the OIR has investigated. Go back and examine how the OIR has been called out multiple times by the County supes for failing to fulfill it’s duties – as simple as getting reports done and submitting them to the Supes on a timely basis. The OIR is basically worthless IMO.
On the other hand – a CIVILIAN police watchdog group with CITIZENS who are not politically connected to the insiders could be very helpful and I endorse it. But the insiders will try to steer you away from such oversight since it would threaten the power base. Don’t buy the excuses. A civilian oversight committee should have been implemented yesterday.
I agree — a civilian oversight committee should have already been implemented. Let’s hope there is no delay in this from tonight on!
I am hugely skeptical to more layers of government being the answer. Small, efficient and totally transparent government in which a majority of honest leaders are in charge (which I think we now have) likely is the answer.
That way criminal cases and traffic tickets of the politically connected can magically disappear over a nice dinner with the chief of police?
Wow Chris! I didn’t think you would be able to talk with Tony’s dick in your mouth.
These FPD guys are always referring to dicks/blow jobs/other crap like this. Latent….all of them. Hence all of the pent-up rage. Please come out…it’s 2012…it is okay to be gay…repeat please. Love yourself.
Wow Anonymous! Proof of that Funk and Wagnall education of yours.
No, it’s funny and the truth.
Who’s it funny to? Some middle schoolers who wear their jeans halfway down their butts? Otherwise, not.
yes. I pray for the best and expect the worst with this civilian oversight committee. Though well-meaning, the persons on this committe may easily be co-opted by the cronies of Bankhead, Jones and McKinley and not realize it.
Our elected officials must be held to a higher standard than in the past. Honesty and the desire to represent the interests of community of Fullerton would create a direct line of discourse and action between Fullerton’s community aqnd its government.
Best case scenario is that it be a independent civilian watchdog group, unrelated to the city leaders or politicians (in order to avoid another scenario of cronyism) over the long haul.
Just because you think you have honest leaders now, doesn’t mean it will be that way in 5, 10, 20 years. Police reform doesn’t come easily and to leave it all in the hands of elected officials could easily lead back to the situation at hand now.
Great! Its good to know that more of our tax money is going wasted on yet another B.S committee that won’t be able or willing to do much. You know Rusty Kennedy is going to want a piece of this action.
When you think about Rusty Kennedy’s purported income – $200K? – how can he truly address the needs of those who are disenfranchised due to income/age/housing/ethnicity? Has he ever experienced what many of these people have?
Rusty feels your pain.
no. and I am sure he works the system to prevent that from ever happening to him and his family members. And I am sure he accomplishes this all with our hard-earned money that is taken away from us(tax dollars).
just my opinion
An ALL volunteer committee made up of 5 people. To meet twice a
month.
At least two members from outside Fullerton.
More than one person who knows Police operations, internal affairs
Issues, POBR, union awareness.
Someone who has been there done that, NOT someone with a degree simply hanging on the wall.
Local political hacks need not apply. NO affiliation with past or present
City Officials, PERIOD!!!
Good ideas!
Yes, I agree with ACU.
But let me add – the positions should be filled with volunteers (covered incidental expenses are ok) like with the OC Grand Jury and the term is limited to one year. Then a new batch is assigned. No volunteer can be related to a government official or anyone in FPD.
Anyone who tries to steer you away from a civilian oversight committee or claim that your ‘elected leaders’ will protect you is not your friend. Beware of wolves in sheep clothing.
The first person who needs to be looked into is Danny “Corrupt” Hughes.
Chris Thompson’s lunch buddy. Ron Thomas’ puppet, City Council’s gopher.
Careful hes probably a Liberal (As in “Big Government”, “Proffesors should run the World” “Malicious Spiteful Control Freaks” “Does and says the exact opposite of what they say”, Maybe)
Someone other than FFFF has to be a Liason or Meet with News Media, and proper Authorities, like FBI, I think CHP does a lot of the Investigation, California State Police were put into California Highway Patrol.
I’m confused. What are you getting at?
Hes saying there is no way anyone from FFFF could be on any police committee. They can’t be fair. They are biased. That’s an obvious fact.
EVERYONE has an opinion and is biased, whether you post on FFFF, or not. Unless, of course, you are completely ignorant about the issues, in which case an uninformed person would be fairly useless.
‘They are biased. That’s an obvious fact.’
Sounds like your definition of biased is “not biased in favor of police brutality”, or “neutral”.
And they are brain dead!
It’s all fine and dandy to have citizen oversight of the cops; but, what level of access will they have to internal documents, video surveillance, and investigation reports, will what they see be edited (sorry ‘redacted’) . I’m sure the POBOR will be waived by the FPOA at any oversight group, along with the contract the FPD officers have.
I think the idea of having an oversight group is important; but important only as a symbol to the cops that they will be watched and that the days of their lawlessness are ending.
Bring up the standards.
Re-write the Police contracts for more accountability for standards and behaviour. Only employ the best.!!
Of course after Mental evaluation.
.
.
Do you have the money to employ the best dummy?
John Doe, Let’s put it this way; Fullerton doesn’t have the money to keep hiring the worst officers. The worst officers cost Fullerton the very most in terms of our tax dollars, lawsuits, settlements, theft, corruption, etc.
Much more importantly, the worst officers cost us the very most in terms of citizens’ lives lost, abuse, torture, sexual abuse, rape, perjury, unlawful arrests, false imprisonment, etc. that is perpetrated on the citizens.
The best officers have high personal moral standards, and don’t necessarily demand the highest salaries. The best officers choose their profession out of a desire to “serve and protect” their fellow man and to uphold our constitutional civil rights, and NOT just to line their pockets.
Hughs said last night that the practices and policies for hiring have been changed, something about the fact that in the past they were only recruiting from 1 particular academy (he didn’t name) and that they are going to use some others, also that they hired people first (I’m assuming non sworn) then allowed those people to put themselves thru academy for cost savings reasons instead of paying for and putting them thru an academy.
Fullerton hasn’t put someone through the Academy in years.
Want makes you think Fullerton has always hired the worst. Fullerton has always been top notch in hiring officers. Unfortunately 2010/2011 were bad. Before, they were pretty squeeky clean. It takes a bad year to screw up a department. Look at LAPD, up and down. Fullerton PD is one of the best in Orange County.
@ John Doe, please show me where I stated, “Fullerton has always hired the worst.”
However, YOU INCORRECTLY stated, “Fullerton has always been top notch in hiring officers.” You’re joking, right?
Says the person who uses newspaper to wipe themselves . . .
I don’t now how this committee is going to be allowed to personnel files, classified reports. investigations. If so, all those people are gonna have to go through a background check just like a police employee. That is going to involve money and personnel time…Good Luck!
Volunteers? LOL good luck. You get what you pay for. This job will take many hours and in depth review of tons of documents. Yes please make it volunteer. LOL
@Reality Is…nt?
You must be one of the sociopathic, narcissistic cops who are ONLY concerned about $$$$$.
One should explore that option before laughing it off. I would
agree that expenses might be in order.
Reserve cops with many departments do a fine job without being paid. Citizen patrol does a fine job. All volunteers.
So having to compensate with a large salary breeds potential corruption too or some lazy people.
Just look at the allegations thrown at Rusty Kennedy.
Genacco and his boys get paid well. You can see what they accomplished. Not much they can brag about.
They sure haven’t stopped or helped anything going on around Fullerton.
Yeah lets give all the citizen’s complaints and investigations to the 80 year old Citizens on Patrol..lol!!
Or we could hire you lol!!
No, you are closer to that age than I am. Old geezer. You can bring your potato chips and beer with you.
I’ll take a reserve officer/volunteer such as ACU ANY day over the likes of a snot nosed sociopath like John Doe. A reserve officer/volunteer would be doing the work and giving service to the community for the right reasons and would not be influenced/motivated by money/corruption.
You won’t take no one cause it’s not your call!
Is it your call, little snot nosed sociopath??
I have to weigh in on one thing, and that’s compensating people fairly for the amount of time, as well as herculean effort that’ll be required to implement any sort of positive lasting changes in the Fullerton police department.
If someone told me that I should be honored and/or flattered to have been selected to volunteer for this oversight committee, I would respectfully decline unless I was going to be compensated at my normal hourly salary rate.
The OC GRand Jurors are currently paid $60 per day.
Could anyone even support themselves on that amount of money?
How about if they have a family to support?
That’s why a majority of Grand Jury members are retired…
I am now retired and I sure would be no pushover for DA Tony if I was on the grand jury. When issues come up that the Grand Jury tries to cover up for DA Tony, someone needs to go public afterward. I saw it 15 years ago when a friend was on the grand jury and they tried to use it to gloss over information on benefits and how certain cities were going to be in financial difficulty. He went to the OC Register and of course, they did nothing. However, now we have blogs like FFFF and many others, so it will not be difficult to blow the whistle on cover ups after the DA’s grand jury does nothing. My sense is that DA Tony picks and chooses the cases for them. It would be nice to see a grand jury modeled after the State’s Little Hoover Commission.
Dear Things That Make You Go Hmmm,
Fed Up With Morons and I went to the L.A. Co. Office of Independent Review once on a case we were investigating. Their offices reside in Commerce. Problem is, that they are in the SAME BUILDING, as the L.A. Co. Sheriff’s Internal Affairs Bureau. Do you see a conflict of interest? They are drinking buddies.
Once we heard that the Orange County D.A. was hiring Michael Gennaco to head the investigation, we knew it would never go anywhere, as we have had prior experience with him in the past. Sadly, we were correct.
If I was on an oversight committee, the first thing I would review, would be all the officer’s files for discipline. With a department as small as Fullerton’s, this would be easy enough to do. Then, any file could be readily aquired regarding any incident occurring.
The oversight committee, could work with the department regarding NEW policies and procedures to implement, that directly affect all officer’s conduct. Each would have to sign a paper stating they have been informed of such changes, and that paper put into their employment history jackets. This would not tie the hands of the officer’s out in the field; rather, it would make them more responsible for their actions. I would also implement training in VERBAL JUDO. It is a technique, by which an officer uses reason and patience to diffuse a confrontation, in hopes that a peaceful solution could be reached, rather than physical force. It has proved itself over and over again in countless incidents.
These are only a few ideas, but ones I would love to have some input regarding.
Respectfully Submitted
Politically reading the name it would say,
Not LA County Lawyers for Paid Biased Covering of Asses.
9C1… I took verbal judo in 1990 with George Thomson and I still use it today. It is a way of thinking that can keep you safer and deescalate situations. Not just LE, but in life too…
Also, something the Ramos and Wolfe should have used in their contact with Kelly. It was glaring at me when I finally got to see the video. They did the exact opposite of Thomson’s teaching.
All cops were trained in verbal judo. It’s also part of the force continum. Ramos used verbal judo from start to finish. As you all said Kelly didn’t understand it because he was certified nuts. Ron saying a cert team should be called at any point in that conversation is nuts. Will never happen anywhere. Shows how out of touch he is. Get to the trial, appoint a new Chief, move Danny back to Captain, and let’s get to the future. Yeeehaaaa.
Since when is something like “I’m going to “F” you up” part of verbal judo? Doesn’t fit with what I learned from a different instructor in another context…
Just words..Kelly said them also. Wait, I know, He was confused and taunted by Ramos. Bullshit!!
you gotta be a pig. fuck you bitch
John Doe stop talking to yourself.
Is that all you have…shut up!!
Oh really DUHHHHHH!!
I pooped some more. Wipe, post, repeat.
John Doe the Troll has struck again! Must be on administrative leave!
I am always on leave. I dont have to work. Not like you sucker.
John Doe is on paid administrative leave….waiting for his trial to begin.
You really need a life Patrick.
I remember RIs Comments from last July, and last year.
“Swings and Misses” Bats .000 🙂
Installing fear in a suspect to the point he flees is not part of the verbal judo curriculum. Nor is escalling the situation. But I think you know that already… And if you don’t, then it’s remediation for you, recruit.
You took verbal judo in 1990..That is hilarious old man. Come forward to the 21st Century.
Haha… you must still have your home room teacher pin notes on your back…
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2012/07/john_huelsman_kelly_thomas.php
Fuck John Huelsman!!!
Thanks John Huelsman for standing up for Jay and Manuel. You are a hero and a good father.
and an A**hole like your stepson. Maybe he will some day figure out how to use a Taser properly. Or maybe he will give back his $48,000 per year disability pension he is receiving while being a one eye patrolman driving a police car including pursuits. Or maybe he was just taking too much steroids that gave him a neck like Bobby Bonds and he had a ‘roid rush! Or maybe, or maybe…………
Or maybe you are wrong. yeah that’s it.
or maybe John Doe and Cici can be cell mates.
Why is Danny boy still the police chief? The whole rotten organization needs to be dismantled, top-bottom, then bottom-top, then right-left, and left-right.
100,000 of Fullteron Citizens should take stinky brooms, walk over to police department, and show who is really in charge.
Hughes is the “God Father” of the culture of corruption at FPD……..How do his “G-Boys” getting away with being arrested off duty and continue to climb the ladder of success?
On the contrary, News, Print, Online, TV, and Radio, Medias, Have worked VERY VERY WELL with FFFF.
Anybody can call Media, or inform State and Federal Authorities and get a response by saying the magical words “FULLERTON CALIFORNIA”
I notice its usually the very oldest or ignorant ones amongst us who are oblivious to the effect of new forms of communication (actually interaction).
News media is much different than being on a police commission. Volunteer commission? Look it up. The ones that work a little bit are well paid.
Good. Then pay them well. Worth every dime. Big savings for City.
age (e.g., “oldest”) doesn’t necessarily equate to being “oblivious to the effect of new forms of communication”…
“USUALLY” the very oldest or ignorant ones amongst are oblivious.
Refering to the Oldest on FFFF
Mc Satan and his Henchmen as “OBVIOUS CONTROL FREAKS” still need to be properly and very carefully dealt with. (We need some James Rockfords or maybe an “A TEAM”)
The Special Forces Operational Detachment-A, or A-Team, is the fundamental building block for all Special Forces Groups. There are six A detachments in each Special Forces company. A captain leads the 12-man team. Second in command is a warrant officer. Two noncommissioned officers, or NCOs, trained in each of the five SF functional areas: weapons, engineering and demolitions, medicine, communications, and operations and intelligence comprise the remainder of the team. All team members are SF qualified and cross-trained in different skills as well as being multi-lingual.
Capabilities of the highly-versatile A-team include:
plan and conduct SF operations separately or as part of a larger force;
infiltrate and exfiltrate specified operational areas by air, land, or sea;
conduct operations in remote areas and hostile environments for extended periods of time with a minimum of external direction and support;
develop, organize, equip, train and advise or direct indigenous forces up to battalion size in special operations;
train, advise and assist other U.S. and allied forces and agencies;
plan and conduct unilateral SF operations;
perform other special operations as directed by higher authority.
In the SF company, one of the six A-teams is trained in combat diving and one is trained in military free-fall parachuting. Both are used as methods of infiltration.
On the surface society seems to value money, but in many instances extreme intelligence saves the day.
How do I get on the committee?
You need to get appointed by the insiders.
Qualifications: Airtight loyalty and obedience.
To be honest, and agree with other FFFF people, it does sound fishy.
Many deadly paths were paved with the very best of centralized Liberal intentions!
About that….
At the very top there is no Liberal or Conservative, only power matters and as long as brain dead minions like you keep buying into the liberal vs. conservative mindset, they get to maintain that power.
“You gotta’ keep ’em separated” – The Offspring
Oh contraire, before November 2010 elections, the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives, were ULTRALIBERAL, Progressives, with a controlling majority that could pass what they wished and did.
The Country is right of center, it should be a form of Representative Government again, not controlled by Labor Unions like Europe. The United Nations is a big Group of Corrupt Dictators. (though they have a good humanitarian effort, it is too dependent on American cash)
Obama is the first American Marxist President.
http://commieblaster.com/obama/index.html
Should read “totally controlled by Labor Unions like Europe”
Republican and Democratic Parties may be considered a Duopoly.
Liberal and Conservative are like night and day, (This is a very conservative blog). Liberals are Big Government people Central Command of everything by people who are far too intelligent and important.
From a Financial, and World Market perspective, it is very different and important.
Exactly. It’s all politics any way you spin it. More layers of politics is all it is.
If RI doesnt like it there may be something to it.
You cant you couldn’t pass the background check.
John Doe talking about background checks…that’s irony!
why is it. I have seen the mob and would you think anyone of them could pass a background check? Be honest now.
Exactly what values/characteristics are you using to base your judgement of moral character upon? I already know how you judged Kelly Thomas to be worthy of your torture and murder.
There we go again with Torture and Murder. Get over it.
I see you are avoiding the question again.
I have heard your people talk. Isn’t that embarrasing enough.
@John Doe, Embarrassing?? So, you feel that the way in which some citizens speak out about injustice, and about their concerns, is “embarrassing;” therefore, they would not be able to pass a background check?
Well, I KNOW that YOU certainly can’t speak or write the English language worth spit; therefore, YOU are DEFINITELY a HUGE EMBARRASSMENT to yourself, to the uniform and to the city of Fullerton; so HOW did you pass a background check? Did you just show them your GED and then they hired you without any interview questions?? Or, did they just hire you because you are a SOCIOPATH and you knew how to swing a baton really hard??
The FPD COPS are truly an EMBARRASSMENT to Fullerton, as IMMORAL cops who bludgeoned, Tazed and suffocated an innocent citizen to death!
JD’s background check: Do I use the paper doily or not? Nah . . . there’s nothing that’s on a toilet seat that my butt hasn’t already touched.
POOP. Wipe, post, repeat. Return to work.
Ha pretty funny Mr. Shitman.
It’s not funny. It’s disgusting. I can’t believe you don’t wash your hands.
Only before I eat.
http://www.ocweekly.com/2012-07-12/culture/art-with-an-agenda-an-exhibit-inspired-by-kelly-thomas-pas-gallery-fullerton/
All my experience working with “Heavy” partners, (for them), any techniques, other than a physical beating, is put on the back-burner. These types of individuals, are always getting themselves put on the “Management Radars”, and constantly have excessive use of force complaints by arrestees and the such.
An earlier blog on another topic, inferred a “pass” for the outgoing chief, as if he was caught totally by surprise by the actions of these officers. HE KNEW DAMN WELL!!! He, and his staff, knew the story about these officers LONG before this tragic incident occurred. Hell, my department has over 14000 personnel, and each staff officer KNOWS who the thugs are. So, it is no excuse then, to have someone in management say they did not know of Cicinelli or Ramos’ histories, in such a small department as Fullerton.
Sadly, these same officers have a long history of beating their wives and kids. It is a pattern that is all too familiar with the courts, and also that of battered women’s shelters.
A civilian overview is absolutely necessary to insure that their are checques and balances in the system.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
Amen 9C1.
Wrong Cops. Check into Hughes “G-Boys”…….untouchables.
I met with Sellers after I observed some heavy handed and illegal actions by some officers. He knew…
Who were the officers. Dont tease and not tell.
And you call yourself a police officer. You are a piece of disgrace shit. There is no history of any wrong doing on these officers because they are good officers, dipshit. That is why no one can find anything on them.
You sound like you were the kind of LEO that would beat someone up and then lie about it. Maybe you beat the shit out of your kids and wife. You probably did since you are the one that mentioned it. You have a guilty conscience. These officers lives are not like yours so get over it.
JD. For second there, I thought you might be a Leo. But after this post, you can’t be… Just another wanna be…. Got kicked out of the academy, eh?
You got it wrong, it was Ron Thomas that got kicked out of the academy. I really don’t care who you think I am. I am who I am.
Sam I am.
If thomas got kicked out of the academy, how come he served 5 years with Sheriff’s Dept? How much BS misinformation can John Doe push out in a Day?
What did he tell you that? He is a habitual liar. His day will come when he is going to have to answer to all the lies he spews.
@John Doe stated, “What did he tell you that?”
Correction:
What? Did he tell you that?
Oh, and please PROVE that Ron is a liar, or else shut your slimy pig snout. You have NOTHING to base your lies upon.
John Doe stated, “I really don’t care who you think I am. I am who I am.
Sam I am.”
Actually, John Doe, you are the Son of Sam.
More like wife/sister of law enforcement. And really not representing well. I guess it is comforting to know that not EVEN ONE of these fpd apologists can formulate a basic sentence to try to get their point across. I guess when you have no legit point to make, you just throw out insults and lies.
Not once I have told a lie here. You are on denial on the facts. The video is there. No wrongdoing was done.
Your command of the facts is as deficient as your command of the English language.
Dont worry about it JFA there is more important things in live than worrying about my grammar.
I mean life..see. I guess I should be checking my before I hit that button. Oh well.
Self..boy am I bad?
DON’T worry about it JFA, there ARE more important things in LIFE than worrying about my grammar.
POOP. Wipe, post, repeat.
Damnit JD, wash your freakin hands before returning to work.
*POOP* AWWHH YES *POOP* *POOOOOOOOP* *POOP*
More of the same from JD. Hope you had the Sunday edition to wipe after that one. Particularly juicy with all the references to shit, dipshit, and more shit.
Well, JD. You do seem to know your shit. I look forward to more of the same today.
Lol @ the claim Ramos used verbal judo. Anyone who watched the video knows he antagonized Thomas, gave him commands that were physically impossible to follow, and tried to escalate the situation. I hope his fellow inmates use some verbal judo on him instead of beating/raping him.
Then he lost his temper when him and Wolfe found those articles from an attorney’s office.
Looser pigs; plain and simple.
Goin’ down now, goin’ down!
Brandon, if Ramos wanted to beat down KT he would not have given him a chance to run. He would have done it in a matter of seconds and been done.
But because he was trying to subdue him without incident, the result of it is what we now have. I still say that they should have shot him and then we would not be having this discussion.
A good shoot and no questions asked other than the routine investigation. But noooooooo they had to follow the law . Now look at the mess we’re in.
He could have just walked up and shot Kelly in the head if he wanted to but of course he would have faced the likelihood of life in prison. The whole point was to get away with it legally.
I know you’re just grasping at straws but you can do better than this Hog Wild.
No… The game is to get the suspect to do something that will allow you to use force. Then you go overboard a little to “teach him a lesson.” One might provoke a suspect into thinking he is going to jail, in for a 5150 hold, to be physically hurt or actually inflict some pain to get a reaction. Then it’s game on….
You watch to many cop shows. Strategy, is that what you are trying to say?
“too,” “to,” “two”
There are three choices; it’s really not as difficult as you think it is. Keep trying. Perhaps after another year of posting on FFFF you’ll eventually figure it out. Don’t worry, I won’t give up on you. You’re welcome.
Oh, and Ramos’, Wolfe’s, Hampton’s, Blatney’s, Craig’s and Cicinelli’s strategy of torture and murder was definitely successful by FPD standards; after all, Kelly Thomas IS DEFINITELY DEAD.
Nah, I dont think so. Cause it wasnt Torture or Murder. Get over it.
Tell it to the jury. Good luck. Have fun in prison.
Aha..Ok.
And don’t forget to bring two corks. You probably have no idea of what I’m talking about now but trust me you’ll thank me later.
or was it felony murder rule?
It’s “too many cop shows,” but I get your point. This comment is based upon my experience pushing a b/w around the streets of LA. What about you?
What LE experience do you have, if any?
Let me guess… you are between 23-29 years old, you put yourself thru a college academy after being passed over by LAPD, LASO, OCSO, who will send you thru theirs.
You struggled with the class work, but with remediation, you passed with the minimum. You excelled with arrest techniques, but were always counseled about excessive force. You enjoyed PT as you could blend in with the crowd and not stand out to the DIs. You worked really hard on the pull ups, but man, could you hit that wall and scale it in seconds.
You really like the excitement of LE work and yearn for the opportunity to use your schooling, but no one is picking you up with the poor academy scores so you keep up your ego by surfing the net., reading about real LEO work while tolling on boards like these. This, of course, is in between the aggressive porn you watch.
You drive a car with tinted windows so you can seem mysterious and hope that LE stops you so you can stroke that ego with small talk and imagining yourself working along side the officer(s). At the same time, you pull long side speeders and “give them the stink eye” so you can practice. You carry a black metal flashlight next to your driver’s seat along with a can of pepper spray.
You drink at cop bars, listen to stories and envision yourself experiencing the same thing which leads to the false hope that one day you will be a Po-po.
You see, JD, your words tell us a lot. Not to mention your IP address and cookies… “Come forward to the 21st Century! (sic)”
Or just keep saying “stop resisting” while you bash on some helpless slob. It’s like a stay out of jail free card.
I never saw anyone bashing on the slob. All I saw was two cops trying to put the slob’s arms behind him.
Shot him? Are you even in law enforcement? And I don’t mean mall cop or security guard… So, at what point do you think Ramos felt threatned enough to escalate the use of force? When was he worried about the safety of himself or the public. At what point…could you tell me? At what point would you have shot him RI? Try asking any other LEO outside of the trolls who post here…they sound nothing like you RI. That is a fact. That is why there is not one person picketing the DA or the FPD Brass. Nobody is outraged on behalf of Ramos or Cici…other than JD/Lisa/HW/RI/etc….
Because they have more class than the quality of people you saw on T.V.
They followed the law and beat him to death instead of shooting him because there were 150 witnesses and a public camera on them that they knew about. How about telling all the facts Hog, not just those you like!
Yes, Thank You John Huelsman for having the guts to go against the grain and for supporting your son.
Since when was making excuses for your kid going against the grain? Just another chump trying to avoid blame.
I understand why someone would want to be there for their son, however how can you defend your son’s actions when one eyewitness said reminded him of a carpenter raising his hammer over his shoulder repeatedly to pound at least a dozen nails into Kelly’s eye’s?
How about the part where his very own son bragged to his co-workers afterwords, that he had beat Kelly’s face to hell?
Does that sound like a Christian or Christ-like to anyone?
Or not telling the paramedics when they arrived, that a man was down and needed medical attention immediately. Wonder if he’s proud of that too?
You’ve seen the posts of these animals. They really believe that if you don’t comply (even when it is unclear) you deserve the death penalty. “if he would of (sic)…” Disgusting. These cop-loving trolls don’t believe in the judicial system. Wasn’t that the premise of that horrible movie Judge Dred?? (sp) Kill on the spot. Judge, jury and executioner….
Not true annony. Most cops that watch that video don’t see anything wrong the whole time. Those foot pursuits and struggles happen everyday. Frame by frame will be seen zoomed up close at trial and you will see the fight. The death was very unfortunate and doesn’t usually happen. The taser to the face is a deadly weapon use and has to be explained as such. May not fly in trial. No one will be found guilty of murder though. Has to be a trick by Rack to get the cops off with probation at best.
Have you seen the so called witnesses. They should of been stepping into the short yellow bus.
and you should OF been stepping in front of it…
For the love of everything holy it is have…have… should have….would have… could have have have. I can’t take it. You have posted your illiteracy under so many monikers…but it is always your 2nd grade writing skills that give you away.
WTF..You are a wacko. Are you related to Ron Thomas. I have always posted as J/D. Get over it.
J.D. can run, but he can never hide! LOL
J.D, as soon as you open your mouth and begin to speak, you reveal yourself as the uneducated porcine animal that you are. If you’re planning to jump bail, you’d better remember not talk to anyone!! Do you have an ankle monitor on?
What about the witnesses who were bus drivers that sat in their buses watching?
One of them reportedly even took notes and snapped pictures on his phone?
The closest bus driver was the one on video saying what happened what’s going on as the people tell him. Good try though.
Incorrect. I’ve spoken with him several times and his story is pretty horrific.
9C1: I do not know if you are speaking of Ramos and Cicinelli directly when you mention the history of domestic violence by officers, but based on how the got their kicks beating a subdued, 135 lb man, I would say the chances are above average. Your restraint in not responding to JD’s angry rant (apparently the subject hit a little too close to home) shows why you were a respectable officer and he/she would likely go ape-shit on an unarmed civilian who happended to disagree with him/her.
happened*
In the meeting last night an interesting question was posed to Capt. “Transparency” Hughs, that perked up my ears as did the answer.
The question was asked by the mother of an unarmed man, who, for no reason was shot in the back in the middle of the street by Downey police.
She wanted to know if there was criminal liabilty by officers who stand around and watch as their fellow officer coworkers do something criminal like…oh…kill someone for no reason and do nothing to stop it or report it.
Hughs answer, “Yes, they are, that doesn’t happen in Fullerton”
May have to change his name from “Daniel” to “Denial” Hughes.
From my recollection it was worded a little differently. She asked if there was criminal liability for standing by as your coworker, an armed police officer, broke the law. Before he answered he reminded the room he wasn’t going to comment on any specific case. Then he short answered “yes” or something similar.
She had also commented that she had read and heard that if you were the type of officer to report misdoings by your coworkers you were likely to get shunned /harassed by your coworkers for doing so. To that he said “that doesn’t happen in Fullerton” going on to comment that he gets a few complaints a week from different officers complaining about the actions or conduct of another officer.
Still dodging the true question as I’m sure FPD’s internal complaints are filled with much more of “I could have done it better than so and so” then “so and so’s abuse of his power is out of control and he is a risk to innocent citizens”.
Did any one police officer speak out on the wrongness of what happened that night in the immediate aftermath? Have they yet?
Until that happens (and I’m not holding my breath for it) how can we trust the police force in this city.
No one is going to come out say anything about that night. Cause no wrongdoing was done. Stop instigating things that didn’t happen.
“instigating”?? Do you even know what that means?? You shouldn’t use words when you don’t know what they mean.
If I didn’t know what it meant, I would have used the word. So stop dissecting everything I say. It’s my opinion, so just live with it.
@ John DOPE, Let’s review a couple of your recent glorious statements/opinions:
“Stop instigating things that didn’t happen.”
“If I didn’t know what it meant, I would have used the word.”
Apparently, that is EXACTLY the case. If you don’t know what a word means, you just use it anyway. LOL
FYI, Your “opinions” don’t make any sense, -so just live with it.
Go ahead and laugh. The one that laughs last laughs the loudest.
That’s fine with me, you can laugh your ass off in prison!!
Wow Merijoe that is one hell of a statement from Hughes.
Seems based on ALL the scandals that FPD has faced, Mr.Hughes
himself may have been one of the biggest enablers of standing by and WATCHING as things happened around him during his many years as a supervisor.
I’d pay admission to Hughes someday deposition.
This guy needs to go. He is STILL in fantasy land.
When he wakes up and admits he kept his mouth shut to keep his self-serving interests intact, he will have come along way.
I wonder if it is fantasy or denial-those 2 things, in my opinion, imply not aware conciously.
JC is correct in his/her comment, that Hughs stated he couldn’t answer about a specific case (Downey) in which she was referring to, but did say he could answer generally.
Her whole question (and Im paraphrasing) did revolve around if all officers had criminal liability when watching another officer do something illegal and not stopping it or reporting it as they are afraid that they will get blackballed if they do, and Hughs did reply that this doesnt happen in Fullerton.
I tend to believe that this happens thru out the force, otherwise there would have been someone inside the FPD who spoke up about Kelly Thomas or Rincon or Veth Mam or the DAR smasher etc.
Dear Brandon,
Thank you for the kind words, SIR!
Dear JD,
I welcome your comments. As you can see, I do not spew the Co. line. I understand your anger, as I was subjected to this many times. While FAR from perfect, I try to do the decent thing.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
merijoe, watch the tape, it was cicinelli who told the paramedics to go tend to Kelly. That is a fact, on tape. Can’t disput it.
I know -I also know, for a fact, that when the paramedics did arrive after that call from Cici, your buddy did nothing to direct them to Kelly, who was laying in the puddle of blood that Cici created after busting his skull open, instead Ramos showed them his widdle boo-boo scrape while Cici stood by silently. So you watch the tape.
Minions – Minions… Listen up.
Ron Thomas complaining about violence against KT? lol
Ron was kicked out of the academy.. word is, reliable word, that it was for domestic violence! What a hypocrit he is.
@ Hogs gone Wild, You are trying to equate the six armed, overweight FPD officers who TORTURED and MURDERED disabled, unarmed Kelly Thomas, whom they were sworn to “serve and protect,” -to ALLEGED domestic violence? LOL
Even IF that allegation were true, it is NOT an affirmative defense, nor even a mitigating factor in the defense of the FPD officers’ murder of Kelly Thomas.
merijoe wrong again!!!!!!!! Yes Cicinelli called for the paramedics and also upon their arrival, video shows that he said, “the guy you want to look at is over here.” On tape merijoe on tape. stop ! look ! and listen !!!!!!!!!!
ON TAPE MERIJOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ON TAPE MERIHOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP. No wipe this time, just post and repeat.
john HOE, YOUR MEAL TICKET IS GOING TO JAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
I think I saw that movie…It was enjoyable.
Hahaha!!! I knew it!
You are not on the job, WANNNA BE!!!!
Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
Yeah, and someone else gets 2nd degree murder for saying the F word. Go figure.
21st century. OK I go to LAPD academy. I only have a GED but luckily my transgressions have been removed from my past adjudications and none were bad enough to go to prison, just jail. Then I go to academy where I get through and I love the job but oops, some banger shoots me in the head and I lose my eye. Then I get a $48,000 a year disability pension which is mostly tax free and I still love the action. I want to be a cop. I am trained for nothing else. Guess what? A nice guy comes to my defense and finds me a job in Fullerton. I know I can’t pass the physical, but I get the job anyway patrolling Do I ask questions? No! Then after a few years I am indicted for voluntary manslaughter and my step dad comes to my defense. He says I am a good guy, really I am!
(pause now for vomiting!)
Everything is correct, except the vomiting.
Like three statements before..Or did you forget already?
You don’t make any sense, as usual.
YOU INCORRECTLY stated, “Fullerton has always been top notch in hiring officers.” You’re joking, right?
I never said it was like you did. Or did you forget already? Come old man you’re straggling.
#48 by John Doe on July 12, 2012
No, you are closer to that age than I am. Old geezer. You can bring your potato chips and beer with you.
#49 by Justice for ALL on July 12, 2012
I’ll take a reserve officer/volunteer such as ACU ANY day over the likes of a snot nosed sociopath like John Doe. A reserve officer/volunteer would be doing the work and giving service to the community for the right reasons and would not be influenced/motivated by money/corruption.
ReplyQuote
#50 by John Doe on July 12, 2012
Justice for ALL :
I’ll take a reserve officer/volunteer such as ACU ANY day over the likes of a snot nosed sociopath like John Doe. A reserve officer/volunteer would be doing the work and giving service to the community for the right reasons and would not be influenced/motivated by money/corruption.
You won’t take no one cause it’s not your call!
#51 by Justice for ALL on July 12, 2012
Is it your call, little snot nosed sociopath??
@ JohnDoe, I guess you just don’t like anyone saying that they would MUCH prefer an honorable reservist, or retired officer like ACU, -rather than a snot nosed, sociopath like you, John Doe.
The hypocrites are the ones who have the gall to question the Thomas’ families method of taking care of their mentally ill son, while not questioning the parenting skills of the Cicinelli’s and Ramos. Despite your ability to twist the truth Hog, you can not deny that Thomas was never charged with a violent felony, unlike the mentally unbalanced, sadistic cops who beat him to death.
Fullerton Business Owner 5 days ago
Kelly lived behind my shop for more then two years. I saw him everyday. Do you know how many times his loving father showed up there in over two yeras? ZERO, NONE! Not once did Ron show up with a sandwhich or a blanket!! People say he could not do anything and I agree he could not force meds etc but he could of showed up with food or anything!! Since day one it has been all about him not his son!! He said he didnot recognize Kelly because of the beard. Kelly had that beard for over a year which proves my point more. I support Kelly but Ron has turned me off so much from this issue..People like myself who cared and saw Kelly everyday get disgusted when we see his bs and self absorbed, ego-maniac behavior!! If you cared about your son you would of stopped by atleast ONCE in two years to see him, to hold him, to feed him. Now you just feed your ego!! REAL talk..
Flag
True. That’s why most people with a brain seperate the criminal and civil cases into two totally seperate things. Jury will decide on the guilt of the cops. Ron has no business with a dollar from the City. It’s clear he cared less. Gave up completely. No effort at all for 10 years. Most people would feel better if the $10-20 million went to a homeless shelter. Oh well. Nothing anyone can do. He will walk into the sunset with the millions never to be seen again.
The city law suit is gonna be based on Ron and Kelly’s relationship. Which they didn’t have. We will see how far Ron thinks in gonna go on his law suit.
welcome back JD, how was court? I bet it was hotter than hell in that monkey suit.
No Monkey suit nice Hawaiian shirt fit for the weather. Court was good. Just moving right along.
right…
JD – You are just one giant dung ball wrapped up in stupid. Just a bizarrare.
More bullshit from the pigs.
Brandon, so true.
Schizophrenia is a real beast. The typical pattern is that families try for years. The early onset of schizophrenia usually shows up in adolescence, coming to full bloom in their early 20’s. Families are at the center the entire time, and usually by the time someone hits the streets –it’s after they’ve lived through the maelstrom having gone through numerous doctors, therapists, the police, social workers and quite honestly: they’re exhausted in every way one can think of.
Those who sit in judgement of the Thomas’s conveniently want to forget the fact that Kelly Thomas was murdered at the hands of the cops.
Are you sure he only had a GED Tuco? Hog Wild claims he had a 148 IQ. Hard to imagine someone who is three standard deviations above average intelligence did not go to college. Or more likely, it was yet another lie presented by the murderer apologists.
Whatever you say.
JD, are you one of Hughes’ boys? I mean offspring; not cop.
Even Fullerton PD couldn’t hire one with your level of IQ.
FUNNY!!
LIMITED VOCABULARY!!
JDs grammar/spelling/word usage is so bad, you have to wonder if it is for real. JD is like a caricature of an FPD troll. He can’t be for real…
Maybe JD is Goodrich.
Amazing…where have all the trolls gone???? Quite a coincidence…
The Civil Rights Division of the DOJ needs to thoroughly investigate the Department inside and out. Then introduce civilian oversight.
DOJ left long ago. They laughed.
Maybe they can investigate LAPD while they are at it.
LAPD has been under Judicial Oversight, rare and something they really dont want.
Why am I going to prison?
There is a new California law in affect that states anyone supporting corruption in law enforcement making lame statements in writing in the form of e-mails, blogs or any internet means shall be convicted of a misdemeanor and spend a minimum of 60 days in a county jail facility.
Not to worry John, these days with overcrowding in our jails and all, 60 days only means 25 days.
Your rear-end WILL get bored out however.
LOL good one. People don’t even do time for felonies anymore.
I think he meant enjoy your job in the jails. They figured out you work for LASO.
If that’s true, he is borrowed time…. the posts and log files on this site are archived…I know if my former department saw these kind of posts from an active officer, they would discipline him and, in this day and age, make an example of him by terminating his employment.
As 15XL as posted, he probably isn’t a LEO. I don’t think he is one either. Just tolling… Real cops wouldn’t endanger their jobs by posting “I still say that they should have shot him….”
Having said that, could something like this happen here in Fullerton? Maybe, I wouldn’t be surprised if it did.
“Ron Thomas did not have any contact with Kelly for 10 years.” is what Truth says.
Well guess what, the lawsuit is still valid. Cops kill a person and that person has parents in Dubuque, Iowa, then they sue, its still their son.
However, that is all a moot point since you have no veracity or proof that Ron did not see Kelly for 10 years. That is 3,650 days and you know about what Kelly did and where he was for each and every one of those 3,650 days? Yup, I thought not! Proves that some people will make up anything to make themselves feel they chose the correct side of an issue. Personally, I believe Ramos is an idiot to say and do what he did with his recorder on. Cicinelli will get burned when a Taser corp expert shows how to use the taser, not as a hammer! Whether either is convicted or not, costs the city big bucks or not, they got themselves in this jam because they are just plain stupid. Think what their families are going through all due to their dumbness. Are they really that nasty? I doubt it but they have lost their jobs, no one will hire them now even for stadium duty with their now “priors”. They got mouths to feed, dependents who depend on them. What could have possessed them for carrying this out is beyond me with 150 witnesses. Amazing! Is the FPD Union paying for Ramos 5 dependent children to eat?
Ramos is just a dumb oaf. Cicinelli sue acted like a guy who wanted to make sure Kelly never stood up again.
What ever happened to Wolfe?
Keep your friends close.
Your enemies closer.
And the FPD leadership out of your hearts.
Good article: http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=111&issue_id=102003
“Since one size does not fit all, there is no perfect review system and no one system can answer the concerns of all interest groups equally. Jurisdictions should take the time to pick and choose among a wide range of alternatives for designing their own review systems and to assess the benefits and limitations of each possible review component. Instead of rigidly following any one model or approach, jurisdictions can tailor the various components of their review system to the particular needs and characteristics of their populations, local statutes, collective bargaining contracts, and pressure groups. The choices they make will have important consequences on how much the review system will cost, how much it will be used, and how satisfied citizens will be with the complaint process.”
Excellent points Tuco. I really think LAPD ditched Cicinelli for being psychologically imbalanced and not very bright rather then for losing an eye. They just couldn’t admit that publicly. Those cops are lucky the Thomas’ family has morals, unlike them, otherwise they would have been victims of street justice by now.
Jay could barely walk when LAPD retired him. It took years of rehab to get back to close to normal. He earned it.
Son needed help but no help?
Sage Stallone was dead in his room for a minimum of 3-4 days and possibly as long as a week … this according to law enforcement sources connected with the case.
Our sources tell TMZ … Sage “lived like Howard Hughes” … he often spent days in his room which was “littered with junk,” including an enormous number of cigarette butts, beer and soda cans, and food.
We’re told there were two drawers filled with various pill bottles, some of which were “huge.”
Our sources say Sage was living like a hermit … no one had spoken with him since a week ago Friday. Although the housekeeper had been there earlier this week, she had specific ongoing instructions never to enter Sage’s room. In fact, we’re told the housekeeper was told to never even knock at the door.
One law enforcement source called the room “disgusting,” saying it reeked of various smells.
We’re told Sage’s mother called the housekeeper yesterday after being unable to reach him, asking her to stop by and check on him. That’s when she discovered the body.
Law enforcement sources tell us it’s pretty clear from the evidence they saw … Sage’s death was an accident.
EVERY F*CKING DAY…
These thick headed pigs are trying to say Kelly’s death was justified because according to them Ron Thomas didnt care for Kelly.
According to their tiny thought process, any adult who is “abandoned” or “forgotten” by a parent should be executed.
but I PRAY Ramos and Cicinell. lawyers use Kelly and Ron’s relationship as a basis their client’s defenses.
LAPD: I was not questioning his physical capabilities. He proved he is still capable of bashing heads in. I was referring to the most likely reason he was let go by LAPD; his mental instability. I give the guy all the credit in the world for overcoming a vicious shooting and rehabilitating himself. Sad as it is to say though, an innocent man would be alive today if he had never regained the ability to walk, or if he had undergone proper mental screening, which no-one can speak to.
But he is only capable of bashing someone’s head in when three other pigs are holding him down.
BTW, Kelly Thomas was executed.