Ramos and Cicinelli Go To Trial: Wolfie Not Far behind
Manny Ramos and Jay Cicinelli, two of the six Fullerton cops who presided over the death of transient Kelly Thomas on July 5th, 2011 were told today by Superior Court judge Froeberg that they would be standing trial in June for the death of the schizophrenic homeless man. Their running buddy, Joe Wolfe the third Fullerton cop charged, has another hearing to dismiss in March.
According to the judge there was sufficient evidence to go to trial. Of course we already knew that; and we also know that newly minted Chief Danny Hughes, the boss of the Fullerton Six told them they did a good job that night. He also claimed there was no Culture of Corruption in the FPD, and other bedtime fairy tales.
Kelly Thomas was killed eighteen months ago.
Motion denied for dismissal, trial date set. Two more blows for the trolls who can’t deal with the facts. Justice for Kelly Thomas!
Standard operation RD. Standard operation. It’s all a game.
Thats the problem exactly Mr. Haller, everything that happens in this case is just a game to you and your brethren over at FPD, the poster child for corruption!
I am saying its a game fo th judge and the DA. Not or me. I guess I wasn’t clear.
Sorry Mickey but it’s a game your boys appear to be coming out on the bottom.
It’s a game and a mockery of the justice system because T-Rack has turned it into one. The defense isn’t on the bottom, they have just been limited to evidence presented by the DA.
Dont forget, a coin has two sides.
Mickey you are the only one with brains up here. The public are so dumb. This case will be dropped. BTW WHY IS DANNY HUGHES RUNNING THE FPD GANG. THE COUNCIL CITY HAS BEEN BOUGHT AND WILL BE SOLD TO THE NEXT CROOK.
RD you don’t know jack. So much you have yet to learn. The facts are yet to be revealed. Hang on to Ron it’s gonna be a bumpy ride.
Jury selection questions that will disqualify RD, and Kelly’s Indigents .
A juror must be:
Age 18 or older ( this includes mental development)
Able to read and understand the English language.
Have you or any family member or close friend ever been accused of committing an offense other than a minor motor vehicle offense?
The indictment is not evidence of guilt. It is simply a charging document. Would the fact that the defendant has been arrested and indicted, and is here in court facing these charges, cause you to have preconceived opinions on the defendant’s guilt or innocence?
Also would you have any difficulty following the principle that the defendant on trial is presumed to be innocent and must be found not guilty of that charge unless each and every essential element of an offense charged is proved beyond a reasonable doubt?
A juror must not:
Have been convicted of any indictable offense in any state or
federal court
And must not have any mental disability which would
prevent the person from properly serving as a juror.
Three facing justice, three back on the job and one supervisor promoted without any civil service competition who told many people including myself that I would understand the officers’ actions once I saw the video.
Are we really expected to feel safer today than on the day after the beating over 18 months ago?
If you want the best police force in California let alone Orange County you first have to clean up the mess.
An independent Oversight Review Board would be a step in the right direction.
I can forgive but I never will forget!
Barry: “understand the officers’ actions once I saw the video”. WE understand — let’s hope the judge and jury understand also!!
3 will take a stretch in the pen, and the 3 remaining basically getting promotions and pay raises to take their place. Very sad state of affairs @ the FPD.
And what a rip-off to the citizens of Fullerton concerning that Gennaco ‘pile of crap! That, to the tune of what, $160K. I certainly hope that a good portion of all that Gennaco decided to ignore, comes out in this trial.
But Fullerton city council member and recently retired Fullerton police chief, Pat McKinley, highly recommended Gennaco because his colleague on the Orange County Human Relations Commission, Rusty Kennedy, highly recommended Gennaco.
Pat McKinley asked Rusty Kennedy, his long-time crony on the Orange County Human Relations Commission , to intercede in the Kelly Thomas beating death by McKinley’s rogue cops.
So Rusty Kennedy believed the good people of Fullerton’s righteous outrage over the revelation their police force had systematically abused the civil rights of their community only to have their tax dollars used to buy hush in the form of legal settlements to the numerous victims of the Fullerton PD would be assuaged with sensitivity training for fullerton police officers.
Rusty Kennedy, son of Ralph Kennedy o Fullerton. .
The same Ralph Kennedy who when he ran for Fullerton city council in the 1970’s was caught registering relatives and friends who did not live in Fullerton so they could vote for him.
Van, you know that that last part is not true. OC County neglected to remove one daughter from the roles when she registered in Santa Cruz County. Three or four farmworker organizers had no permanent address other than the Kennedy home to which they rotated for vacation. Sounds weird, but that was the lifestyle of “organizers” at the time. Rusty was one of them.
The claims of stacking votes was discredited at the time, but was an effective campaign tactic agaist Ralph. We are talking about a purported vote fraud of four to six votes?. Ralph came in fourth of nine for three seats with only 60% of the vote needed to win. 2,000 votes short; 3,000? I can’t remember.
The voters did not approve him. Why not stick him with the truth and let the fiction lie fallow. It will increase your credibility.
Steve, why didn’t Ralph Kennedy sue for defamation or show me proof of Sanat ana Register’s retraction that absolved Ralph Kennedy of voter registration fraud.
Remember, the entry portion of the house had a table with a stack of white voter registrations forms.
From the living room, Natalie, squared onto the couch, would yell out to those friends and family members of Ralph Kennedy to fill out one of those forms.
I remember someone saying they didn’t live within the fullerton area and so couldn’t vote. Natalie replied go ahead anyway it was for a good cause.
That incident drove home to me the insidious effects of moral relativism on a civil society.
Steve, remember the faded blue carpet, the dated , modern Danish furniture, the round, dark wood coffee table, the plastic, opaque insert instead of glass in the window frame next to the front door.
I remember
you choose not to
Ralph Kennedy and his wife engaged in voter registration fraud
Van, I never heard that testimony before. That was not in the Register nor the Daily News Tribune article. Nick Harder did not tell me that when I argued with him over the Tribune coverage of the issue when I was a part time Tribune writer under Harder.
I talked about the issue with Rusty a couple of years later. His recount of his and Ralph’s conversations with the Tribune was that they thought there was little to the charges but that they were forced to print them once the Register went with them. Of course, that is second-hand.
If you have first-hand testimony that I have not heard before, that is pertinent. It is a bit complicated by the fact that you have priorly stated that you do not wish me to know who you are, which precludes first-hand testimony.
1031 N. richman Avenue, Fullerton
black asphalt driveway crumbling apart, pool table in garage, shed in the backyard used as a hang out
Steve, I’ve given you details that proves I knew Natalie and Ralph. I was in their house when Ralph ran for Fullerton city council person.
These two ruthless people did not care how they got the vote, Ralph had to win a seat on fullerton city council to get a foothold into fullerton’s lucrative , political machinations.
Remember, Ralph Kennedy was laid off from his job in his forties. Natalie’s piddly teacher’s salary did not buy Ralph happiness.
From Margo, I also found out why Natalie’s nose was squashed in.
I don’t doubt that you were there. There are advantages in knowing whom one is communicating with in terms of knowing perspective, prior judgements,and even clues in body language.
First, if I had said the words that you ascribe to Nat, it would be a crime, either now or then in my youth, given my cognizance. I would never had said those words with intent and I would have never said those words in jest. I can say the same for Ralph, given his cognizance. I can see Nat saying such a thing in jest without having the intent to encourage voter fraud. Unfortunately, with that lack of cognizance, I can also see her meaning it without realizing what a serious crime it would be.
I was not there and was not witness. If you were there, I am not in position to refute your witness or interpretation. At least, thank you for clarifying to me what that entire issue was about.
My mother had always told me that Nat’s nose was broken in an automobile accident in which Ralph was driving. The point of the story being that as she needed surgery to rebuild it, she had it rebuilt to look more like my mother’s nose.
As far as I’m concerned, the voter registration issue is a fair game issue that belongs in public discussion. Probably not everything that Margo told you in confidence is appropriate to be discussed openly and anonymously on the internet.
I have seen my mother and Nat call each other crazy for the way each remembered some past issue. That is where it is good to know the witnesses, have past knowledge of the reliability of their memory and judgement and knowledge of the prejudice of their point of view. It was also helpful to be able to as Dad and Ralph what the truth was.
Steve Brow,
So let me get this straight…wherever I take my vacation this year will be myrsidec and that’s where I should register to vote?
Sounds more like voter registration fraud to me.
but Fullerton lover, its for a good cause. Remember, the end justifies the means. If you wanted Ralph Kennedy to get elected to fullerton city council, just cheat
In a nutshell, this is EXACTLY what the majority of Fullertonians have become.
My proof?
Jan Flory.
My strong suspicions, too.
No, it does not. A “home” is legally defined as a place to which you intend to return.
Now go back to the culture of activism in the late 1960’s into the 1970’s. The kinds of people who were inclined to organize for the United Farm Workers were recent college graduates or non-graduates who wanted to go out and make a difference to save our world. But then as now, the young often decline to register and vote.
So these young United Farm Worker organizers at the time volunteered to be essentially homeless out in the fields and then rotate for rest to the Kennedy household. Keep in mind that they walked around the corner to our home to use the pool, so I met them personally. Since they were unregistered to vote, now politically active, and the Kennedy household was the closest thing they had to a home, they registered to vote there.
I am not necessarily doubting any first-hand testimony Van has from the time. This is how the situation was explained to me near the time and dove-tails with my own observations at the time and what was printed in the Register and New Tribune at the time.
out of total economic desperation, I was renting a room from Natalie and Ralph Kennedy when he ran for fullerton city council person.
they only other persons living there were margo, me and random teen-agers who had been placed there by social services/church group
and I never did vote for Ralp
Thanks for sharing your personal accounts van get it da artiste.
I’ve always been wary of Ralph Kennedy simply because of his close affiliation with a jackal like Pat McKinley.
Ralph Kennedy’s son, Rusty Kennedy, the executive director of the Orange County Human Relations Commission (OCHRC), a commission whose mission statement is to act as a “clearinghouse” and “mediator” for OC’s communities complaints of civil rights abuses committed against them by their respective law enforcement agencies, awarded Fullerton Police Chief Pat McKinley an award for outstanding community-policing in 1999.
Obviously Rusty Kennedy knew Fullerton PD in 1999 was not abusing the civil rights of Fullerton’s community or else he would not have handed out that award to this police department out of all the police departments in Orange County.
Pat Mckinley either during this time or shortly after receiving this award, became a member of the OCHRC board, representing law enforcement on this commission committed to improving police-community relations.
Now, here is the perplexing part. While Pat McKinley served on Rusty’s commission, numerous civil rights abuses were committed against the community of Fullerton by Fullerton PD.
How was it Rusty Kennedy knew Fullerton PD did not abuse the civil rights of Fullerton’s community but did not know after 1999 that Fullerton PD engaged in perjury, false arrest, suspicious jail suicide, sexual molestation of female detainees, excessive force.
Gosh, does anyone have an explanation for this phenomenom?
Now a lot of things make sense. In the early decades, when things got to crazy at “your” house, all I had to do was walk around the corner to go home. In the later decades, of course, I could just get in my car and drive to my own home.
Being two years younger than the youngest Kennedy kid, I don’t think that I spent a single night at your house in over half a century.
I guess they’ll continue to waste taxpayers money delaying the inevitable.
As I’ve stated before, the defense Ramos, Cicinelli and Wolfe may have is they did not know right from wrong as they had been inculcated into bedroom city commando’s, Fullerton Police Chief Pat McKinley, culture of corruption.
If it can be reasonably shown that these three police officers’ guidance came from a leader(s) who promoted breaking the law instead of upholding it, this may ameliorate their guilt in the beating death of Kelly Thomas.
Frankly, Fullerton PD’s present and past leaders, have thrown Ramos, Cicinelli and Wolfe under the proverbial bus to save their own jobs by reducing their culpability in the numerous civil rights abuses committed by fullerton PD against Fullerton’s community..
This whole thing is a disaster. Kelly lost his life. Ramos, Cicinelli and Wolfe lost their jobs and are about to lose their freedoms. Mckinley, Jones and Bankhead lost their seats and their dignity in the process. Tony lost a small fortune trying to right the wrong. The taxpayers have lost millions in legal payouts and salaries. Ron Thomas lost his son and his privacy. Fullerton’s clergy have lost the the sparse remainder of their blessings of The Almighty as a result of their silence. The so-called pillars of the community have lost their minds doing their rain dance around this tragedy. The so called good officers have lost their honor by not breaking rank and calling a murder a murder. The DA has lost more hair and years off of his life trying to find an escape for the 3. The Grand Jury has lost more credibilty with the delayed indictments. The children of this town have lost the law enforcement role models they once respected as a result of this heinous act. The Hispanic community has lost more faith in the system as they watch the actions of the brass and prosecutors throwing one of their own under the bus. The women of this town have lost the sense of security of being out alone in fear of a traffic stop. Many are losing their religion as they hear that an Evangelical Christian in charge that night stated that the video would change our minds once we saw it. Lastly Fullerton has lost its soul to its foolish desire to heal by burying the truth deep in its heartless blinding myopia of cowardly self preservation. I have lost much faith in our bequeathed sacred institutions over the span of the last 18 months. I have however gained an even more ardent faith in The Word of God that clearly lays out the fact that humanity is a fallen race all of which are in dire need of a Savior. May God help this town and open all of our eyes in Jesus name.
Yep, 95% of the FPD Officers and Police Union give the other officers a bad name.
Fullerton city council, Fullerton PD, Fullerton’s so-called pillars of the community, Fullerton’s vocal religious leaders and their outspoken congregants, all lost their credibility.
tony bushala may have lost money trying to restore decency to his hometown, but he has gained much respect and admiration for his selfless efforts
In only a few people’s eyes. That’s why they ran Team Bush right outta town. They knew his agenda was instant death. Door hit that team right in the rear. Now the majority of the community is making decisions again.
Truthseeker, brilliantly written and spot-on.
You have lost your mind!
Standard operation RD. Standard operation. It’s all a game.
Keep repeating that, Mickey
Very eloquent summary of all the damage the acts of a few have caused so many truthseeker. The FPD will never regain back the trust and respect of the citizens as long as they continue to support or condone what happened to Kelly Thomas.
Thank God, Hallelujah!!!!!!
I wonder what our two new council members, and the one voted in at the “Recall vote” wearing a “blue shirt” in his council seat a while back…have to say now?? Still a vote to put in a permanent position…the now serving interim police chief?
Putting into a leadership role even temporarily, the man in charge of the Kelly Thomas debacle, Cpt. Hughes is a serious mistake in judgement by City Council. There are other serious candidates from within and outside Orange County. A nationwide search should not begin and end within the confines of the boundaries of the City Of Fullerton. Hughes has already shown his colors by interviewing in Corona for the Chief position. He can leave at anytime and Fullerton would be better off with anyone even remotely associated to the KT incident left off the interview invitation list.
Don’t expect anything. I don’t want you to be disappointed.
Good point Pitt. Many of us are simply hopeful that justice prevails. IE Ramos, Cicinelli and Wolfe are found guilty and enough dirt comes out of the trial about Hughes that the Feds will be up his ass if they aren’t already.
One would think that Cicinelli would be extra careful when using force around the eye region understanding the trauma that carelessly happened to his own eye. If Kelly would have survived he would have been blind in the same eye as Cicinelli as his left eye had been badly hemeraged.
interesting coincidence…..or could there have been a deeper sinister motive.
There you go again.
Cicinelli must believe in an “eye for an eye”. I watched the DVD once again (without sound) and observed what an absolute out of control buffoon he looked like, running around the pile of already over-weight cops on top of Kelly. He appeared a bit too anxious for blood. Hang him!
According to the attopsy report and the Judges ruling it cannot be determined if Ramos & Cicinelli both may have contributed to the lack of blood flow to the head region. Because of this Cicinelli will now not have to solely bear responsibility for Kellys death from the blow to his nasal passage that caused his lungs to fill up with his blood and thereby sufficate. According to the autopsy and Judge Froeburgs report that
it can’t be determined what caused the lack of blood flow to his head region which caused such damage to his head region that he had to be taken off life support.If this theory is right that Ramos did contribute, then that would mean the brain was being damaged during the period of detainment. If that were so then how would Kelly be able to still call out that he couldn’t breath. From the time that Kelly stopped communicating to the time the Ramos stopped applying his weight doesn’t seem like enouph time to cause brain damage.
This shared blame may be what gets Cicinelli off the hook for charge sole responsibility for recklesly taking a life.Ramos started it but Cicinelli contibuted the fatal deadly blows.
If logic could and it does support that Ramos did not cause the suffication of Kelly then would increased charges be brought against Cicinelli?
Some of you forget its just the tip of an elaborate evil cover up. God knows what else has or is happening.
To con men and sadists, its a grand charade, the game or show is an even bigger prize, feeding some inner demon or sense of self, like MICKEY. 🙂
sa·dism
n.
1. The deriving of sexual gratification or the tendency to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others.
2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from cruelty.
3. Extreme cruelty.
Truthseeker, putting,
“…The Word of God that clearly lays out the fact that humanity is a fallen race…”
into your comment was really good and applies very well to most of the cities leadership and history.
“…SANTA ANA – Federal prosecutors said in court papers late Friday that former Orange County Sheriff Mike Carona’s prison sentence should be not be cut because his request to do so, among other reasons, ignores the evidence and the facts of the case and has no legal grounds.
The disgraced lawman, serving a 66-month federal prison sentence for witness tampering, has asked a judge to reduce his sentence to less than half…”
http://www.ocregister.com/news/carona-388098-sentence-federal.html
“…Carona was tried and convicted of trying to persuade a former top aide Don Haidl to lie for him during a spreading federal investigation of corruption in the Sheriff’s Department.
In January 2009, a federal jury in Guildford’s court found Carona not guilty of five counts but convicted him of witness tampering…”
Don’t get too excited, cop bashers and bedwetters. The officers will be found NOT GUILTY. The BUM was given EIGHT lawful commands by the officers and he proceeded to ignore each command. EIGHT lawful commands! He sealed his fate by violently resisting to the very end.
He cried out for a daddy who abandoned him to the streets, then didn’t return for him until he figured out he could get some $$$ out of his son’s death (Kelly’s mom already cashed out).
This was not “murder”, it was an accident, caused a suspect who died of excited delirium because he violently resisted EIGHT lawful commands!
http://friendsforjay.org/
Wrong wrong wrong wrong again.
Even the DAs office isnt buying that bag of disingenuous hateful lies.
Lawful in old Iraq, not in the modern free world!!!
The DA has his own agenda and it has nothing to do with Justice.
It took the grand jury a year to indict Babe Ruth for his home run swings and the DA for Ramos 20 minutos para vendería a su madre con tal de salir del problema.
these fists are gonna f— you up..
Picture this while you are sitting on a curb, trying to maintain your balance by putting your legs straight out and hands behind you. See these fists Lisa? Now tell me what is lawful about threatening a shirtless skitzo homeless man? And it is obvious you have not watched the video or you would be ashamed. See these fists Lisa? They are gonna F— you up!
If someone said that to me I would get up and run away. Wouldn’t you?
“If you dont do what I say”…those words are going to be the deciding factor.
Maintain his balance? Yes he did say he had something to drink. He was probably drunk.
The cops could have shot him 15 times, and still trolls like lisa would still say it wasn’t murder. It was murder, you just can’t deal with it! Ramos will be someone’s bitch real soon.
I least he has one. How about you? You ugly gnome.
They should of shot him 15 times. They would of had a better chance. Like Anaheim’s cop. But Anaheim PD backed his officer. Fullerton are a bunch of scared idiots that just look out for themselves.
I wonder how your children will feel when they eventually see the tape of their father repeatedly beating a 137 pound shirtless man to death with the butt end of his Taser?
Again, he was NOT 137 pounds,. He weighted at least 160.
Get the facts straight. In the REAL world we deal in facts.
Lisa, you ignorant sl*%!
@ Wrong Guy: You just can’t handle the truth.
Poor Lisa – she continues to suffer from her delusions; sad, very sad
YOU ARE SICK!
Jay the Jay-cat, as they refer to the deranged white-boys in prison, will be getting ALL of his body part orifices worked by some real bad boys! HA!
Pop out that glass eye and he can accommodate yet another homie! How many other bitches in the joint can do that?
Cicinelli should be charged with 2nd degree murder. The fact that he wasn’t should concern all of you who have been fooled into believing that this is actually a pursuit for justice. Please stay tuned. You are in for the shock of your lives, IMHO.
Pittbull: I look forward to the day when the 3 start cross dressing in preparation of their prison sentences. Everyone will be shocked, I agree.
Cross dressing? Dont talk about your desired dreams.
RD – I’m on your side but you’re really putting the cart before the horse. Are you new to this County? Haven’t you caught on to how the game is played yet? You’re on the downside of the learning curve and have some catchin’ up to do.
Cause he is a horses ass!
RD sounds like you speak from experience.
Nice to see the lack of comments — nobody cares about this anymore, time to move on!
This story is commented more than anything Ive seen 10,000s of times over and over again, go look at the youtube comments.
or Facebook, even on local news sites, they usually dont get many comments.
#48: Oh you are so wrong, we are all still watching and PAYING ATTENTION!!!!!!!!!!
From a long time citizen of Fullerton.
Poor Lisa
They can’t move on Lisa because they don’t have a life. This is their life, their cause célèbre without this their lives would be empty and meaningless.
NOTHING GOING TO HAPPEN HERE. DISABILITY PENSIONS, BACK PAY AND BACK IN BUSINESS ON THE STREETS. VENGEANCE.
HA HA HA HUGHES NOW OWNS THIS CITY.
INEVITABLE? IS DISMISSAL
Any jury picked will know this is the first case of murder by cop in Orange County. They’ll know that doing the right thing will bring them fame and fortune after the trial. To come back with a not guilty verdict, would only bring them shame in the public eye. So they will do the right thing and find them guilty if the evidence is there. Which it is. Take your medication and cope with the facts trolls!
More than likely potential jurors will be required to fill out a (possibly lengthy) questionnaire about their experiences with law enforcement, homeless, mentally ill, including whether they personally know anyone that falls in those categories. Those categories are the first that came to mind; knowledge of and/or participation in this blog may be another possible category.
It will probably be a large pool of jurors.
And if they lie, they will be caught and thrown out in embarrassment.
Now now RD, that’s not the American way. There is going to be smart people on that jury, no one like you.
RD take YOUR meds! You are definitely suffering from a severe case of delusion. Next you’re going to think that you have something of any substance to say.
Lisa, I’d say it’s about time we give that yawn-inspiring Friends For Jay website that you keep hawking a little face-lift
twerkbreak.com/friendsforjay.org
http://www.twerkbreak.com/friendsforjay.org
You made me LMAO!!!!! I just found out, what twerking is….Poor Jay…Maybe this will put a little smile on his face…
Pretty stupid!!
If I was on the jury I would write a book called “12 Angry Men”! Oops thats been used. Well, I could write a screenplay for Hollywood. It could be written based on the outcome! They pay a lot of moola for screenplays. I can see me and Pat McPension at the Sundance Film Festival. Maybe Clint Eastwood could play the McPension role in the film version!
Thank heavens I got my half of the gold in the last film.
It would be a good screenplay people love true stories.
OCWeekly already says Fullertons tragedy of wholesale torture is a “Soap Opera”
The Documentarians are busy with this one too.
The story is so so dark it may help them (The dark side), it makes it time sensitive, everyone is too busy watching the developments, victim, witness and testimony releases.
One of the hardest things to create is a great enemy.
Clint only plays good guys.
Office of Sadistic Review made 20% of the posts on this thread.
want a blue ribbon or a gold star?
How about taking a break? lol
family members of accused defending their criminal behavior.
Its a phenonmenon that is nothing new.
Lance Armstrong during the Oprah Winfrey interview….
“I saw my son defending me and saying, ‘That’s not true. What you’re saying about my dad is not true,’ ” Armstrong said of Luke, 13, the oldest of his five kids. “That’s when I knew I had to tell him.”
Winfrey pressed him several times, as Armstrong paused, wiped his nose and appeared near tears.
“I said, ‘I want you to know that it’s true [the doping allegations],’ ” he said. “They didn’t say much … they just accepted it. I told Luke, I said, … ‘Don’t defend me anymore.’ ”
“How did he take it?” Winfrey asked.
“He’s been remarkably calm and mature about this,”
It seems that althought his son was adimantly defending him there came a time that it was so obvious that he had to tell his son the truth and say “stop defending me”. The reaction to his father telling him the the truth was calm as if he already understood from what was becoming increasingly obvious what his father was admitting to him.
I can understand the reaction of family and freinds on this blog post who will back their loved family member for what he did. Unfortunatly in doing this one must villainize all the others.
All of us have likely heard the maxim, “Confession is good for the soul.” It’s an old Scottish proverb but there is a word missing. The proverb actually reads, “Open confession is good for the soul.”
Many movie stars have killed in same way as they acted out in the movies. OJ murderd a woman similar to his real life experiece. Robert Blake shot his best freind int he back of the head in “of mice and Men”.
Robert Wagner pushed Virginia
Leith off the top of the old Valley
National Bank Building downtown,
which is now the Bank One building.
Was Natalie wood pushed off the boat that fateful night in the water at Catalina .
The very things that these acters acted out in a theatrical setting seem to have followed them in real life criminal investigations. When enraged the drama is offorded an opportunity to become reality.
Many of the mass shootings in the news had one thing in common. They acted out thier extreeme gun violence in computer simulated drama. Sandy hook, Columbine, Aroura etc.
One must ask if Cicinelli didn’t act out in his own mind what
he wished to repence for what someone else did to him.
targeting a lone, quiet homeless man that keeps to himself may have afforded the perfect opportunity.
It seems to be in the news quite a bit lately about other police misconduct where the vulnerable are preyed upon because of the unliklyness that anybody will believe them because they are homeless, or they are intoxicated, so they become an easy prey.
This case and whats happening at fullerton police department is so important as many beyond fullerton are wathching and hoping to bring better accountability to law enforcement.
“The Roots of Violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics……”
OCWeekly.com
Welcome to Ku Klux Kounty!
Fanning Elementary, Plummer Auditorium and other OC streets, parks and monuments named after local pioneers who were Klan members
Comments (77) By GUSTAVO ARELLANO Thursday, Jan 17 2013
“…OC society has largely forgotten this terrorist past, so much so that the ensuing decades found Klukkers rehabilitating their image and hiding their past so that future generations immortalized them in the form of buildings, parks, schools and streets named in their honor—a quiet victory for the Invisible Empire. So what better way to remind us of this rancid history than to get a model to pose in a Klan robe in front of their monuments? …”
“…PLUMMER AUDITORIUM
This majestic building sits on the campus of Fullerton High School and is named after Louis E. Plummer, longtime superintendent for Fullerton schools. Many of Plummer’s Klan friends—William Starbuck, Harry Byerrum, Joe Royer, among others—also have Fullerton streets and parks named after them. 201 E. Chapman Ave., Fullerton…”
http://www.ocweekly.com/2013-01-17/news/ku-klux-klan-orange-county-pioneers/
I’ve read those articles written by pseudo-history professor, Gustavo Arellano.
A real historian would never assert half of what Gustavo claims without showing his or her assertions derived from proof called primary documents.
Though people have frequently challenged Gustavo’s musings on OC history and the KKK that he claims is found on membership roles, he refuses to scan even one primary document, not one membership role that supports any of his assertions.
History is bunk only when sloppy fools revise it.
roll
The site has been very reputable to me, its published not written in stone.
Fullertons PD was KKK controlled, its OC.
“Louis Plummer and Seven Fullerton City Councilmen were in the Ku Klux Klan
The following is an excerpt from a work-in-progress called The Town I Live In.
In his 1979 UCLA doctoral dissertation “The Invisible Government and the Viable Community: The Ku Klux Klan in Orange County, California, During the 1920’s,” Christopher Cocoltchos writes:
“Civic controversies directly spurred the Klan’s growth in Fullerton during 1923, especially in the latter part of the year. Councilman W.A. Moore, Judge French, and Superintendent of Schools [Louis] Plummer joined the Klan in the latter part of 1923…Civic leaders were especially eager to join. Seven of the eighteen councilmen who served on the council between 1918 and 1930 were Klansmen; most joined the hooded order between June, 1923 and July, 1924. They believed the disorders in their community would be stopped only by the efforts of a civic-oriented group which would balance boosterism with a strict community moral order…”
http://jesselatour.blogspot.com/2011/10/louis-plummer-and-seven-fullerton-city.html
Ironic that Cicinelli’s clan comes on here for free publicity and talks about the lack of comments. How many people are visiting the friends for jay website? Probably no-one besides relatives and the 4 cops who still refuse to recognize Jay as a murderer.
@ Pittbull: It’s not insider knowledge that cops get special treatment in court. If that wasn’t the case all six officers would be on trial, and Cicinelli and Wolfe would be charged with 2nd. Regardless of whether or not they do any time, their days menacing innocent citizens are over. They will never be able to walk the streets without receiving looks of contempt and disdain. They will someday have to sit down and explain to their children why daddy murdered an innocent man or sat there and watched it happen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htmXXG9J0tM
Wrong Guy- Gennaco report spent most the time on relationships ( sexual) inside the PD..so dan has decided, I guess you know he is a councelor, he can decide who can fuck and who cant, seriously- he gets to decide who gets to fuck, even if they are married ect, Dan finds it ok for relations inside his pd, I worked at Taco Hell as a kid, and they wont even allow that- but hey to those cops wives that sit at home, your husbands are fucking thier co workers, and their new elected boss, is ok with this…I wonder how many of them have herpes? Then Imagine Hampton ramos had girlfriends, on the side wait til the ladies lawyers know about this…MS HAMPTON YOUR HUSBAND HAS A GF<RAMOS YOUR HAD TO STOP PAYING THE AP FOR YOURS, lmao, O danny you have quite the people.
hey lets ask those jesus folk, how come they dont help the homeless? Yeah they write a check and keep their hands clean, what happen to you are your brothers keeper, I see NO church from FULLERTON step up, yeah they throw the homeless food, but by 7pm, their day of jesusness is over..I call it fake, fraud and a scam, try this on for size, have your church help the locals by openeing up their church..this is what you guys claim, YOU HELP others, lets see it, Im not talking about a million bars of soap to veitnam, Im talking real honest to goodness help..NO ON IN THIS TOWN WILL< EVEN THOSE WHO WEAR THAT T ( CROSS) around their neck, they do nothing either. Fuck FUllerton churches
Found this interesting – another city in another state found killing an elk was absolutely wrong; wish Fullerton PD had the same mind-set!
Two Boulder Police officers turned in their letters of resignation Tuesday following their arrest last week for their involvement in the shooting of a bull elk in Boulder’s Mapleton neighborhood.
Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner’s office sent out a press release earlier in the day, noting that the department’s internal investigation is ongoing.
“The Boulder Police Department does not tolerate this kind of behavior,” said Beckner. “Police officers and other members of this department will be held accountable for their actions and behavior, and we want the community to know how seriously we take this breach of trust.”
Sam Carter, 35, and Brent Curnow, 38, are facing nine charges each that include three felonies for the death of the trophy-class elk.
Carter had been with the Boulder Police Department for five years and Curnow had been with the department for 14 years. Both men were facing termination if they had not resigned.
An arrest affidavit alleged that the two had conspired to kill the elk as early as Dec. 26 through an exchange of text messages.
According to 9News, Officer Sam Carter — who was on-duty and patrolling near the Mapleton neighborhood at the time — shot the elk and off-duty Officer Brent Curnow showed up to take away the elk and have it processed for meat.
Carter can also be seen posing with the dead elk in a photo taken by a Boulder resident shortly after it was killed, though neither officer filed a report about the incident.
Carter and Curnow were arrested last Friday and released on a $20,000 bond recognizance.
Lets see when this legal sham is over if the officers fare better than this man.
http://americong.com/kill-a-rat-go-to-jail/
Oh very good comparison. Weak!!
Pinnipeds have better legal protections than citizens do from the police.
and since you think everything is a game watch this-over 11 million people already have
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx9GxXYKx_8&bpctr=1358974574
Tell me what you think.
Truthseeker,
Read this thread (and the links with in it), it is very good IMO. I too had many questions and saw the video you posted.
http://honda-tech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=40&order=desc
When on the fence, it is always important to digest both sides, no need to stoop to the level of main stream media (one-sided).
So why are the homeless the churches problem. The churches
feed them. Why should they house them also.
2 years ago no gave a rats ass about the homeless. Now everyone is concerned.
The reason the churches exist is to preach the Gospel. The money the churches collect is by decree of the Almighty, supposed to go to help the the widows, the poor, the fatherless, the beggars and the lost. The churches have instead become cash registers and psychological warfare arms of the government not unlike the media spinning and twisting the Word of God to effectively tie the hands and feet of the flock from becoming involved to effect society for the better. They turn out pansies instead of statesman. The salt and light is no more. That is why darkness prevails if you haven’t noticed. When is the last time you have seen a church mobilize a protest against police brutality or the skid row liquor peddlers making merchandise of our young people downtown? Our so called Christian colleges and Seminaries have been infected by with the errant pre-millenial dispensationalism that has everyone waiting for the end of the world as it goes to hell in a handbasket. This has neutered the church. Its root followers such as EV Free spending 30+ million on a parking structure, millions more on an office building, and soon to be millions more on yet another remodel, Grace ministries spending 50+ million on a sanctuary, Eastside spending 30+ million on a new building, Calvary Chapel a few mill on a new spread and none of any of these facilities have built a school, an orphanage, a soup kitchen, or a shelter. The only time they show up at city hall to squawk is for planning commission meetings, not for the plight of the afflicted. They are all closed up 6 days a week. In my opinion they are all just staffed by hireling preachers whose job is to separate the congregants from the contents of their wallets on the Lords day in order to further expand the balance sheets of their clandestine bookkeeping. Go ask them for the financials and watch as they pay no taxes and tell you to pound sand. So we the taxpayers spend our tax money to do their job. Yes complicit silence where blatant injustice prevails is the order of the day in this town with some hirelings even blaming the community for the death of Kelly Thomas instead of those who murdered him. The churches are big business and fit well with the fascist system that has been erected all around us. I haven’t missed a Sunday morning service for several decades and I am still waiting for where this Nation was born-in the pulpit-to come alive before this Nation dies where it was born-in the pulpit. Sadly these places are starting to sound more like a comedy clubs. The state of affairs of this town and for that matter this nation is no laughing matter and neither is the disposition of all of our souls. The charges-they were set up to fail -just like all of us are being by those we blindly trust. Open your eyes folks open your eyes.
Amen brother!
Truer words were never spoken.
Very interesting posts about how responsible police departments value the life of animals more than the Fullerton Police Department values human beings.
So what animal is anyone giving value to?
Aren’t they sometimes one in the same? For example, Kelly’s Indigents. When it comes to RD, my apologizes to animals everywhere.
Don’t hate just because not everyone blindly supports police killings like you Mosca. The enlightened must protest in order to bring about change.
Most interesting… Blame everybody for Kelly except wherein the blame lies. Ron Thomas.
If Ron T. is sooooo concerned about the way his son, or not, was treated and what transpired, why did he not prevent it?
If Kelly had had some help, a little food, a shirt, a jacket to stay warm… A little pocket money. A place where he could go once in a while, to have a warm shower and a bowl of soup, maybe a pair of socks. You get the message.
If Ron T. had taken care of Kelly, WE would not be in this situation. None of Us.
If Kelly had had just one, JUST ONE, person to help him, well, again I say…
It is said that the homeless really only have paramedics, its tough on them, both. We all here know how that story played out in Fullerton.
The Fullerton Police Department Are the Bullies In Blue
Long before officers beat Kelly Thomas to death, the city’s cops ran roughshod over anyone and everyone
http://www.ocweekly.com/2011-11-24/news/fullerton-police-department-ron-kelly-thomas/
Reason.tv: Cops Vs. Cameras: The Killing of Kelly Thomas & The Power of New Media
Paul Detrick|Sep. 21, 2011 9:04 am
“…The autopsy results from the death of Kelly Thomas, a schizophrenic drifter who was allegedy beaten to death by Fullerton, California police will be announced today by Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas…”
http://reason.com/blog/2011/09/21/cops-vs-cameras-the-killing-of
Kelly had six people who could have helped him. Instead they decided to kill him. Was it for fun? Ramos and Wolfe started the killing for no apparent reason. maybe it really was all just for fun.
Or maybe they were doing some one else a favor for free food and beer.
Many of the noted abuse cases are associated with Downtown Tijuana Fullerton.
Many Police Depts. target easy arrests such as young people and drunks.
There were about a third of all the officers needed for the weekend festivities in DTF (there was only about 30 patrol cars some must have been old). A lot of it is simply because it degraded into many problems and an alcohol over serving competition between the establishments.
Using youe argument Kelly had the whole city of Fullerton that could have helped him.
How about his father who hadn’t seen him in over 10 years or his mother who used to party with him but ended up afraid of him?
“YOUE”????
Rule # 1 for online survival ignore fools and trolls.
Yes but the whole City didn’t pile onto him that night and literally beat the life out of him. That dubious honor belongs to the McKinley hired, Hughes-trained goons known as the Fullerton Six. The ones Hughes told they had done a good job.
Fred..Where were you to help the homeless before this incident. All you do is criticize everything the officers did that night. You are a sorry little man who gets his kicks by shitting on other peoples decisions in split seconds. You were not in their shoes so stop your hatred.
Hog Wild: It is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to keep a schizophrenic/claustrophobic relative off of the ground who is sleeping on the ground by choice. Keeping someone like this off of the ground requires confinement within a locked facility to accomplish this, and this is pretty much impossible to do. There is no Rx that treats claustrophobia. Do YOU get the message? [Oh Brandon — when will they ever learn???!!!]
Tell that to the relatives of people with mental issues who have not turned their back on them and have them safely confined to facilities that can address their issues.
Why can’t you accept the fact that Ron and Cathy turned their back on Kelly?
Because they didn’t.
@ Mosca: So your logic is because Kelly’s father hadn’t visited him in awhile and his mother was afraid of him (which reports say only happened on rare occasions) he deserved to be taken down like a stray dog? Oh wait we treat stray dogs more humanely when we kill them.
No Brandon Ron Thomas had not seen his son Kelly in over 10 years and his mother was more than occasionally afraid of him that is why she was granted a Restraining Order against him.
And even though he behaved like a stray dog no one wanted to kill his sorry ass. Don’t make him out to be a folk hero.
It’s incredible how you pick and choose from from the facts as if it were a buffet.
Fred those animals find pleasure inflicting pain.
@ Mosca: Why don’t we focus on how Ramos, Cicinelli, and Wolfe’s parents didn’t teach their children it’s not ok to beat people to death for kicks. Oh that’s right, in your opinion it is ok as long as it’s done under the guise of the badge.
@ Elaine: These people judging the Thomas family on here obviously know nothing about mental illness. If these cops had any formal education on mental illness (one of their supporters claims they all have four year degrees), or had even spent one day around the mentally ill, they’d have not tried to provoke and escalate the situation with Kelly Thomas. Of course their actions were not based solely on ignorance. There was sadism and sociopathic tendencies in their actions. Thank goodness they will never have the opportunity to terrorize innocent citizens again.
I noticed in the Kelly Thomas timeline in the OC Weekly that he witnessed a murder at the age of 15.
Many witnesses to tragic or traumatic events such as a murder, end up developing a mental disorder referred to as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Basically with P.T.S.D., or Survivors Guilt, the individual constantly replays the traumatic event(s) over and over again in their in their conscious and sub-conscious mind so much that it blurs their sense of reality because they are so steeped in the past events.
Kind of like trying to drive through life, while focusing on the stripes in the road that is miles behind you.
Note that this is why forgiveness is so key to our sanity.
It said he was a witness. It didn’t say he witnessed it. Probably someone told him about a murder.
Oh, but its ok for parents to abandon their child to eat out of trash cans like an animal and look and smell like a caveman. As they sleep in the warmth and comfort of their homes. And after this person dies cash in on money they do not deserve at their son’s expense. And $9000.00 is not enough and lie and put a show so everyone can feel sorry for him. What happened to Kelly;s Army? Some saw through this evil man and started to see the real Ron Thomas. No Brandon, Ramos, Cicinelli and Wolfe’s parent taught their sons to be good human beings and respect others. They went through the training that not everyone can do and gave up their weekends and their nights of their lives to provide safety to the people of Fullerton. And never expected a thank you. They all loved the city of Fullerton and their jobs. And it all was taken away one night in an instant because a homeless guy refused to let them do their jobs and cooperate. And it all starts from the beginning. If parents of the homeless guy would of taught him right, He wouldn’t be in the streets. If his mother wouldn’t have filled him with drugs and alcohol and his father wouldn’t have beat him, his life would of been different.
“No Brandon, Ramos, Cicinelli and Wolfe’s parent taught their sons to be good human beings and respect others. They went through the training that not everyone can do and gave up their weekends and their nights of their lives to provide safety to the people of Fullerton. And never expected a thank you. They all loved the city of Fullerton and their jobs.”
Hahaha! LOL! Thanks for bringing a warm smile on a cold day! Brilliant parody. I finally get it.
You wouldn’t understand you were probably brought up with hate and probably beating also. So suck it up. Your sorry life is showing.
“You wouldn’t understand you were probably brought up with hate and probably beating also. So suck it up. Your sorry life is showing.”
Describing Wolfe?
No describing you.
And yet with all the sadness and hatred in my life I never murdered an innocent man under cover of authority. It was Wolfe, Ramos and Cicinelli who did that.
@ Mickey Haller
“Ramos, Cicinelli and Wolfe’s parent taught their sons to be good human beings and respect others.”
People who are taught to respect others don’t threaten to fuck people up and proceed to beat them to death. Nor do they bash in the heads of unarmed civilians who are hog tied.
“They went through the training that not everyone can do”
Considering that Ramos and Wolfe are borderline obese and Cicinelli has a missing eye and PTSD, I don’t think they are examples of fine physical specimens. I guarantee I could do more pull-ups, push-ups or sit-ups than any of the three, and I’m missing a limb.
“and [they] gave up their weekends and their nights of their lives to provide safety to the people of Fullerton.
If they gave up their weekends/mights, I’m sure it was to collect overtime. Lots of people would be ecstatic to give up nights and weekends if it meant making 80K + a year with no college. And they terrorized the people of Fullerton instead of providing safety. That’s why they’ll never be cops again and are soon to be felons.
Any other b/s you want to try and spin today?
Might be fun to do a post on parental neglect and the offspring thereof who become cops.
Yeah do it and let us know. Cause I dont have to do a post about the homeless cause we all know their lives were screwed over by their parents.
They might be borderline obese and missing one eye but they can out run you in a New York minute. And I am sure they are way more intelligent then you. Everyone sees how ridiculous you are. And how do you know they will never be cops again. Never say never. They respect people that respect them. Kelly was a jerk and unrespectful. His father father taught him right. One looney to another.
If you are so Adamin they have no college, ok. Then they are making damn good money. Don’t hate cause you could never be a cop. You are a lunatic and you have mental issues.
@ Mosca: “Tell that to the relatives of people with mental issues who have not turned their back on them and have them safely confined to facilities that can address their issues.”
Perhaps if you reviewed the law you’d realize you cannot have someone committed against their will unless they’re a threat to themselves or others. A better question would be why Cicinelli’s parents didn’t have him safely confined to a facility after he lost his eye. If they had Kelly Thomas might still be alive today.
YES!!! YES!!! YES!!!
@ Fullerton: That would actually be an interesting thesis or dissertation. I wonder if there are more homeless people or cops who were abused/neglected by parents.
They could have been raised by Angels, when you put them in groups, then instill LAPDs mindset, and leadership, you get what we got. The Cities leadership is just another compounding problem. Example, McKinleys short but memorable political career.
Someone said a whole lot of the better officers left the Dept.
Now that is really funny. Cops and homeless in the same sentence. You are really scrapping the bottom of the defeat can.
Kelly died 18 months ago!
EIGHTEEN MONTHS AGO CICINELLI RAMOS AND WOLFF WERE THROWN UNDER THE BUS!
So are we equal?
Someone posted that Kelly T. witnessed a murder when he was 15. And that caused him to do what…? Be a jerk? So… does Cicinelli get a pass? He experienced an attempted murder on himself.
So are we equal here?
And I would put the education of the FPD against all of the regulars on this blog anyday and come out way ahead!!!!!! Way ahead.
So maybe the moms’ of CIcinelli, Ramos and Wolff should get a $$$$Million $$$$$ each.
1. Nobody gave Kelly a gun and a badge. McKinley did both for the one-eyed PTSD Cicinelli. And look what happened.
2. Nobody threw anybody under bus.
3. Ramos, Wolfe and Cicinelli and the rest of the FPD GED crew are intellectual giants? Hahahahaha!!!
No one gave Kelly a gun, but he took a poker and tried to kill his grandfather. 1st degree murder. Everyone has an agenda especially the DA.
Except that Kelly was mentally ill, whatever the true facts about that issue.
What is indisputable is that he had no weapon the night of July 5th, 2011 when confronted with belligerent, obese members of FPD, who we are led to believe were not mentally ill, who proceeded to kill an unarmed man for no reason.
Case closed.
He is not mentally ill. His brain is fried from all the drugs his mother gave him.
Fred, Just keep believing what you post. It’s ok.
And who said Cicinelli had PTSD?
There has never been anything in his file or his actions on the street that even comes close to PTSD. Nothing. Where you getting your
4-1-1 ?
Oh… you are making it up?
You assuming that because someone goes through a difficult situation in the streets that they are going to react like you would? Is that what you are saying?
Most officers are mentally strong.. Most!!!!
“Most officers are mentally strong.. Most!!!!”
That’s funny, and probably not the truth. I don’t believe anyone could go through that kind of a shooting unscathed.
Hmm. Well , something accounts for Cicinelli’s crazy rage when he smashed Kelley’s face 8 times with the butt of his taser.
Just sayin.’
It was definitely revenge. What a sicko.
Yes something accounts for Officer C aiding and assisting a fellow officer or two. Could be the radio call x 3 for “Officer needs help.” Just Sayin’.
“Could be the radio call x 3 for “Officer needs help.”
What? They needed help holding down Kelly so Cicinelli could bash in his face?
Pretty amazing, and not in a good way.
I can hear it now:
“Cicinelli we need you to get over here and help our 600 pounds of blubber dealing with this skinny little bastard. And oh, by the way, if it’s not too much trouble please smash the bridge of his nose into his skull.”
Crazy rage means S.O.P for the FPD? Nice gang ya got there, Danno!
Spectator you bring up an interesting point, what is the agenda of the DA in this matter?
All the pieces of the puzzle don’t fit.
I just wonder what all the FPD. think about their department? I know they can’t speak up. That’s like me speaking up at my job, it’s just not going to happen.
They are doing, as most of us are doing, just go to work and keep our jobs. But, if you make a mistake your out the door. And we all know, everybody pays the price, for our co-workers mistakes. Those of us that have real jobs.
Lira has spoken up. What he says is bad. Of course he has been labeled a malcontent, a cancer and obviously has issues.
Anybody that spoke up, would be labeled the same. It’s called a “Whistle Blower”, he will be able to sue. There are laws that protect them. Even if he has issues. Was he Fired with cause? Or just cause he was winey?
t is so dissapointing to read the vitriol and bitterness spewed by this blog.
Not many of YOU want to take on a smelly, dirty, bearded, half naked, totally unkempt, out of control, bad breath, diseased homeless person.
Police do it every day. Your ingratitude is what they get!
You should all be ashamed of yourselves for not supporting the officers involved in the Kelly incident until you hear the evidence brought out at trial. Many, if not most of you do not want to hear the evidence becuase it may not go the way you want. It seems that you are looking for a reason to hate the police.
You want things better at you local police department? Then you should be supporting what they do by learning the ways they work and acquainting yourselves with what they deal with everyday. Go on a ride – a – long.
By your apathy, you are going to get the quality of officer that you deserve. Good or Bad!
Good points. Most of us do support and respect the Police. My issue is that in spite of training and personnel present, it resulted in the suspect dying. There’s no reason Thomas should have died as a result of the encounter. Whether it be training, ethics, whatever, I hope Hughes can get it fixed. This is not the worst thing to ever happen to a Police Department.
Unarmed suspects, combative or not, are supposed to be brought into custody ALIVE pending arraignment, trial and either acquittal or sentencing. They are not to be taken to the coroner first. The jury of public opinion was already in long ago on the televised execution of Kelly Thomas. The sham legal proceedings that are about to follow won’t change the facts. Kelly is dead and he was alive before he met the FPD that night. For $100,000+ a year and a generous benefits package they handle the dangerous elements of society when called upon.They are given a badge, a sidearm, a service revolver, automatic weapons in the trunk, and our trust and DAR’s and dashcams to keep it all above board. No where in the aforementioned are they granted, bestowed, conferred or imparted a license to be judge, jury and executioner.
Judge, Jury an executioner! You are right! But remember that goes both ways.
And also remember that the police did not know if Kelly was unarmed. They could not take a chance because they did not know!!!! They were trying to find out if he had anything on him that would harm others.
What a load of crap. Dude didn’t even have a shirt! Where was he gonna hide a weapon? The backpack that he consented to be searched?
Show me where they attempted to frisk Kelly. The truth will set you free.
They wanted to hurt him and make a statement.
Anon. Stop showing your ignorance of police policies and procedures.
“They wanted to hurt him and make a statement.”
What statement?
“What statement?”
Stay the hell away from Slimebar.
For three and the win!
Hog, P&P is not a shield. Ever.
We’ll See!
Kelly bite Ramos in the leg…rabid dog.
What else would you do with a fat pig leg?
Yeah that’s how hungry Kelly is. Thanks Dad!!